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I take that exchange as Ozzel going for a surprise shock and awe attack that leaves a chance for escape, and Vader wanting a methodical encirclement that will take longer and cost more Imperial troops, but get everybody. Adjust hyperspace/space mechanics as necessary to get that, nobody writing the movie thought that hard about it
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Sep 14, 2023 04:05
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My theory is that Vader doesn't know poo poo about naval tactics but reflexively denigrates others competence to keep his own position secure.
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Sep 14, 2023 04:35
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The movie needed a reason for a ground battle to happen vs a fleet of Star Destroyers just carpetbombing the planet and picking off any survivors that try to escape with small vessels. "We made [technobabble] mistake on approach, giving them a chance" is a perfectly reasonable thing to posit and the details don't really matter. We don't know enough about the specifics of hyperspace travel in Star Wars to say "the technobabble clearly doesn't make sense". Somebody hosed up by disobeying orders, that's the only thing that saved the Rebels. It shows that it's basically luck that they survived (if the Star Destroyer had e.g. come out of hyperspace further away, scanned the system, went "oh there ARE rebels there" and called for a backup of 50 more, whoops), and it gives Vader an iconic moment. Win-win
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Sep 14, 2023 12:29
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Mauser posted:Battlestar Galactica did a hyperspace jump into an atmosphere in order to launch fighters on the planet as a surprise attack and it ruled. Was just think about that arc recently - why didn't the cylons just kill everyone on the planet? They wiped out the rest of humanity on the 12 colonies, but left the idiots of planet mudball alive.
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Sep 14, 2023 13:31
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Was just think about that arc recently - why didn't the cylons just kill everyone on the planet? Because despite putting the text "And they have a plan..." at the start of most episodes after season...2 (?) the producers did NOT have a plan for what the Cylons' plan was. But they realized that, to your point, they couldn't simply have them nuke New Caprica and kill like 75% of the remaining humans, so they came up with some idea that the Cylons became slightly reformed, and no longer wanted to exterminate all humans, but to convert them to their monotheistic religion. Or something.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:14
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Was just think about that arc recently - why didn't the cylons just kill everyone on the planet? Caprica Six and Boomer convinced them that killing everyone was bad. That was the point of the end of Downloaded.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:18
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Crowetron posted:The tactics don't matter. If Ozzel succeeded and flawlessly wiped out all the rebels, he still would've been killed because he disobeyed orders. That's the only thing that matters to Vader: "Do what I say or else." He's not a subtle character. With the prequels as context, there's a strong implication Vader hates and resents the empire he serves, and he's probably glad to have any excuse to choke the life out of the insufferable goose-stepping prats that make up its officer corps. Tarkin funnily enough is established by Clone Wars as something of an exception, as he and Anakin served together, though Tarkin was always clearly a sociopath from the start. The Lone Badger posted:My theory is that Vader doesn't know poo poo about naval tactics but reflexively denigrates others competence to keep his own position secure. That would make a lot of sense, and be completely in-character. And it's pragmatic in its own way too. Vader's whole deal is being an inhuman, mysterious magical monster that's above anything else in the Empire. To concede to others threatens that entire deal. Also comes to mind Krennic in Rogue One survives his encounter and even gets to hear a dad joke probably because Vader finds him (and his whole deal with the cape) to be pathetic and funny enough to spare.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:20
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I love Krennic's lovely cape so much.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:32
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FFT posted:Star Wars ships have speed limits outside of hyperspace. The A-Wing was the fastest at 1,300 km/h, barely over mach one. I've always either ignored numbers like that or mentally added a few extra zeroes
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Sep 14, 2023 14:35
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Grendels Dad posted:I love Krennic's lovely cape so much. He'll be in the second season of Andor, I hope the cape makes it too.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:38
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FFT posted:Star Wars ships have speed limits outside of hyperspace. The A-Wing was the fastest at 1,300 km/h, barely over mach one. Is that space speeds or atmosphere speeds?
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Sep 14, 2023 14:44
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The best thing Disney did with Star Wars is also the first thing, the Phineas and Ferb crossover. It's also funny that Krennic arguably has a lot in common with that version of Dr Doofenshmirtz.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:46
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i still think the most unbelievable part of the prequels is when Padme shows up, and she is what, 8/9 months pregnant with twins but looks like she maybe had an extra serving of pie for lunch, and DOES NOT immediately start screaming at Anakin. "Like WHAT THE gently caress IS WRONG WITH YOU" kinda fullterm pregnant lady meltdown. Anakin is evil and ready to deal with tears and screaming for mercy. He would not be ready for hormonal pissed pregnant wife about to deliver twins. We'd see that evil eye thing fade out really loving fast.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:58
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Star Wars falls into "The Road Not Taken" territory very quickly. It's a short story about aliens with antigravity and hyperjump tech invading earth.... except their technology level is that of civil war muskets and firing lines. Turns out humanity failed to discover the antigrav by pure happenstance: most other aliens have because it's something stupidly primitive and simple, so instead humans have developed insane technology levels compared to the galaxy at large... and now the invaders have given them Antigrav on a platter. Star Wars feels like that: hyperspace jumps combined with WW2 Era tech at best. Never-mind that maintaining anything resembling civilization would be nigh impossible in the face of space pirates and marauders that can pop in and out of hyperspace on a whim: hence having to include limitations like mass proximity and planetary shields. You can't protect a city or space station if all the enemy has to do is warp in, fire long range weapons, warp out. For all it's other faults, the Foundation show actually demonstrates that: the Empire maintains extremely strict control of jumptech. And we see what a rogue foundation ship with the tech can do by literally warping almost inside the empirical palace to mount a rescue. "Hyperspace whenever/wherever" quickly becomes unmanageable. DarkDobe has a new favorite as of 15:08 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 15:01
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I just feel there is a limit to how much you can nitpick the realism of a film with literal space wizards tbh. Like before you get to "space is so cold that we could detect the infrared radiation given off by the engine of a VW beetle as far away from earth as pluto, so this one particular battle plan wouldnt work" you kind of have to get past "Magic is real and there are space wizards. They can parry lasers. One of them is a muppet.".
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Sep 14, 2023 18:31
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SiKboy posted:"Magic is real and there are space wizards. They can parry lasers. One of them is a muppet.".
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Sep 14, 2023 18:35
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Improbable Lobster posted:I've always either ignored numbers like that or mentally added a few extra zeroes If you add the extra zeroes to make space make sense, the ships in atmosphere don't make sense in the slightest, unless you also add some handwavium about the computer autoscaling throttle inputs to keep the meat sacks at the controls out of trouble.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:39
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I likw the part where the lasers go pew pew and the ships go vwommm.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:42
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Cowslips Warren posted:Anakin is evil and ready to deal with tears and screaming for mercy. He would not be ready for hormonal pissed pregnant wife about to deliver twins. We'd see that evil eye thing fade out really loving fast. "I killed them. I killed them all." "Oh poor baby come here and let me hug you." They were so eager to turn Anakin into Space Hitler it didn't occur to them they were turning Padme into space Eva Braun.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:49
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Extremely ironic casting
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Sep 14, 2023 19:17
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Byzantine posted:I likw the part where the lasers go pew pew and the ships go vwommm. I always  that George Lucas has to tell actors to not make the sound effects with their mouths when filming.
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Sep 14, 2023 19:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Vader's whole deal is being an inhuman, mysterious magical monster that's above anything else in the Empire. To concede to others threatens that entire deal.
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Sep 14, 2023 19:57
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Tunicate posted:Is that space speeds or atmosphere speeds? There's probably a strong argument for the Star Wars galaxy being full of aether, which would also explain why you can hear the lasers firing in space. stringless has a new favorite as of 21:42 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 21:40
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I just started watching Elemental and it's cute enough I guess (although it doesn't feel really Pixar quality yet) but it runs into the same problem X-Men does. I get what it's trying to do, tell a story about prejudice and stuff through the lense of immigrants, but it kinda undermines it's own message because the fire people are a legitimate danger to everyone else. Main character has a temper problem and literally explodes when she looses her cool. Kind of an issue when a huge part of the population is literally made of wood. E: Lmao the water dude's little nephews meet her and they're like "do you die if you fall in water?" while trying to make her fall in water. Murderous little brats. Again, I get what the movie is going for and I'm enjoying it because I'm taking it at face value, but if you don't turn off your brain and give anything in this movie more than 2 seconds of thought there's a hell of a lot of problematic complications lol. Taeke has a new favorite as of 23:42 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 23:06
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FFT posted:As far as I'm aware, yes. Didn't you know explosions and stuff are even louder in space because there's no air to muffle the sound. It's just science!
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Sep 14, 2023 23:39
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Byzantine posted:I likw the part where the lasers go pew pew and the ships go vwommm. And all the jizz. I just can't get enough jizz
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Sep 14, 2023 23:52
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FFT posted:As far as I'm aware, yes. Also all those banking turns the millennium Falcon does 
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Sep 15, 2023 00:41
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Doc Smith's space opera stories famously had the space ships exceed the speed of light just by going faster, by virtue of him starting the books before relativistic physics.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:47
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Tunicate posted:Doc Smith's space opera stories famously had the space ships exceed the speed of light just by going faster, by virtue of him starting the books before relativistic physics. My favourite part was after Relativistic Physics was discovered he ended up using it in his later books. Namely, the solution as to how to destroy a planet that had a shield that was resistant to previous planet cracking technology (de-orbiting two antimatter planets and flinging them an enemy world from two sides so that it cracks it like a nut between them had been done before and was therefore defensible because Lensman was nothing if not a series of insane escalation of conflict). This involved travelling to a dimension where the speed of light was higher than our dimension, accelerating the planet to a speed higher than the speed of light, and then dropping that planet back into our dimension in front of the planet to be destroyed. Observers were not sure precisely what happened to the planet, but the target was Gone and scientists were delighted at the new and exotic forms of radiation released that they got to study.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:33
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Neil DeGrasse-Tyson: the acceleration would be lethal 16-year-old: can you unlock the door though
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Sep 15, 2023 03:42
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Taeke posted:I just started watching Elemental and it's cute enough I guess (although it doesn't feel really Pixar quality yet) but it runs into the same problem X-Men does. this was the main reason (aside from Hiccup's VA) I loving hated How To Train Your Dragon to start out. Berk doesn't hate dragons because Berk are bigots, Berk hates dragons because dragons loving burn their poo poo down and steal their food! You should be training people to kill things that do that! Compare to something like The Boxtrolls, where everyone thinks they're monsters, but they're not.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:48
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Cowslips Warren posted:this was the main reason (aside from Hiccup's VA) I loving hated How To Train Your Dragon to start out. Berk doesn't hate dragons because Berk are bigots, Berk hates dragons because dragons loving burn their poo poo down and steal their food! You should be training people to kill things that do that! Guess this guy has never heard of dogs.
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Sep 15, 2023 04:09
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Cowslips Warren posted:this was the main reason (aside from Hiccup's VA) I loving hated How To Train Your Dragon to start out. Berk doesn't hate dragons because Berk are bigots, Berk hates dragons because dragons loving burn their poo poo down and steal their food! You should be training people to kill things that do that! We do have predators here in real world that cause serious problems like stealing our food. Our solution to that isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) to wipe them out.
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Sep 15, 2023 06:42
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Alhazred posted:We do have predators here in real world that cause serious problems like stealing our food. Our solution to that isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) to wipe them out. Yeah but uh... predators in the real world aren't flying monsters that pose an existential thread and burn down your village.
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Sep 15, 2023 06:55
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Taeke posted:Yeah but uh... predators in the real world aren't flying monsters that pose an existential thread and burn down your village. So, like, the vikings in that cartoon went extinct? Thanks for spoiling the ending!
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Sep 15, 2023 07:11
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Ommin posted:Within the Empire, Vader was effectively 3rd in command (arguably lower if you include the Emperor's closest advisors). He was 2nd to Palpatine, but Tarkin had military rank over him and vastly more resources. Vader was always treated like a leashed animal. I understood Darth Vader to be the emperor's personal enforcer, effectively outside the regular military chain of command and thus neither outranking, nor outranked by, Tarkin. The emperor just kinda vested Vader with separate authority with vaguely-defined (read: effectively zero) boundaries to fulfill his personal directives, which we see can put him at odds with the military. But Tarkin can't issue orders to Vader, nor Vader to Tarkin, so their interactions are more like tense negotiations between equals. I long reckoned that after Tarkin's death, there wasn't anybody with enough authority, prestige, and stature to keep Vader at arm's length like he could, so we see Vader more flagrantly abusing the military officers in the sequels.
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Sep 15, 2023 07:33
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Mr. Belpit posted:I understood Darth Vader to be the emperor's personal enforcer, effectively outside the regular military chain of command and thus neither outranking, nor outranked by, Tarkin. The emperor just kinda vested Vader with separate authority with vaguely-defined (read: effectively zero) boundaries to fulfill his personal directives, which we see can put him at odds with the military. But Tarkin can't issue orders to Vader, nor Vader to Tarkin, so their interactions are more like tense negotiations between equals. it's funny that we're still talking about this because facebook had a random thing from some star wars fan page that said the reason why vader punished ozzel and not piett for their failures is because ozzel was from a powerful family, whereas piett had worked his way up on his own merits. you don't have to be a genius to see why a former slave might not have a lot of patience for nepotism.
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Sep 15, 2023 08:05
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Grendels Dad posted:So, like, the vikings in that cartoon went extinct? Thanks for spoiling the ending! Begining? No this was a Viking village vs Dragons, the vikings were all dead in the first five minutes. The other hour thirty three is just hardcore dragon porn. Was sort of surprised it was a massive box office hit, but I probably shouldn't of been.
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Sep 15, 2023 08:27
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Ardent Communist posted:it's funny that we're still talking about this because facebook had a random thing from some star wars fan page that said the reason why vader punished ozzel and not piett for their failures is because ozzel was from a powerful family, whereas piett had worked his way up on his own merits. you don't have to be a genius to see why a former slave might not have a lot of patience for nepotism. Idk if it’s still the case but for a while they were portraying Vader as the kind of guy who treated the actual troops pretty well and just hated most of the officers
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Sep 15, 2023 08:33
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Ardent Communist posted:it's funny that we're still talking about this because facebook had a random thing from some star wars fan page that said the reason why vader punished ozzel and not piett for their failures is because ozzel was from a powerful family, whereas piett had worked his way up on his own merits. you don't have to be a genius to see why a former slave might not have a lot of patience for nepotism. Absolutely no way Lucas had thought of this when he wrote those scenes and probably had no concept of the characters Ozzel and Piett beyond their names.
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Sep 15, 2023 11:59
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