CainFortea posted:

What's the 180 rule?

nine-gear crow posted:

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/180-degree_rule

Basically if you're gonna do a Shot/Reverse Shot scene, don't put the camera on the opposite side of an imaginary line between two characters that forms a 180° arc.

The scene cut from a shot of Perrin on the left side, to a shot of Perrin on the right side, and it was just incredibly visually off-putting.

nine-gear crow posted:

Only one I noticed was a shot of Perrin that cut to another shot of Perrin and broke the 180° Rule so it was jarring as poo poo, but otherwise no. It felt like they were trying to stich together the best parts of two different takes of the same scene and that was the best they could manage.

Open Source Idiom posted:

I dunno if I can comment here, because I read the first book maybe a decade ago? So perhaps my opinion isn't as unblemished as others.
…
I think Kate Fleetwood's loyalties are more ambiguous at this point tbh -- though they obviously want us to suspect her, she seems a little too complicated for it to be that straightforward. Also I just like the character and don't want to see her get murked.

DTurtle posted:

Ok, now that this episode is out, I wanted to come back to this:

Did anyone else think that Liandrin wasn’t a Darkfriend after last episode 4?

I think it was meant to be super obvious, what with her attacking Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne. Immediately followed by a scene in which Ishamael appears to Min and tells her that he can give her what Liandrin promised.

Was it a case of being too obvious (and hence suspicious)? The actor and character being just too likeable (in a weird way)? Just denial of a thing you feared would be true?

I didn’t want to ask before this episode, as it was something known 100% as a book-reader, and I didn’t want to confirm something that was still slightly ambiguous.

JOHN SKELETON posted:

drat, this show is getting really good! There's finally enough depth in the world and so many places and characters that it's beginning to feel like the Wheel of Time. That scene between Lanfear and Ishamael was just so much fun to watch, and shows why the Forsaken are some of the most entertaining villains in fiction.

IcePhoenix posted:

The "Of course I'll betray you" line was so perfect

nine-gear crow posted:

Speaking as someone who hasn't read all the books, but is book aware, I was legitimately curious what way they were going to go with Liandrin because it felt like there was an even split between "she's a Darkfriend and this is all just a con" and "they're taking a huge detour with her book role and she's just a really lovely good guy", and it seems they've settled on... both options being correct somehow? She's a lovely person who's still not 100% sold in the idea of being a Darkfriend and Nynaeve constantly needling her on how well her bullshit is working out for her is wreaking havoc with her character alignment. It's made her so much more fascinating to watch than if they'd just played her character as straight as it was in the books.

DTurtle posted:

Ok, now that this episode is out, I wanted to come back to this:

Did anyone else think that Liandrin wasn’t a Darkfriend after last episode 4?

I think it was meant to be super obvious, what with her attacking Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne. Immediately followed by a scene in which Ishamael appears to Min and tells her that he can give her what Liandrin promised.

Was it a case of being too obvious (and hence suspicious)? The actor and character being just too likeable (in a weird way)? Just denial of a thing you feared would be true?

I didn’t want to ask before this episode, as it was something known 100% as a book-reader, and I didn’t want to confirm something that was still slightly ambiguous.

I thought it was funny that there was a hypothetical discussion about the Selene/Lanfear/Forsaken thing being missable/not communicated enough, when there was this other thing that was supposed to be just as obvious, but was actually missed by a good number of people.

nine-gear crow posted:

Speaking as someone who hasn't read all the books, but is book aware, I was legitimately curious what way they were going to go with Liandrin because it felt like there was an even split between "she's a Darkfriend and this is all just a con" and "they're taking a huge detour with her book role and she's just a really lovely good guy", and it seems they've settled on... both options being correct somehow? She's a lovely person who's still not 100% sold in the idea of being a Darkfriend and Nynaeve constantly needling her on how well her bullshit is working out for her is wreaking havoc with her character alignment. It's made her so much more fascinating to watch than if they'd just played her character as straight as it was in the books.

DTurtle posted:

Did anyone else think that Liandrin wasn’t a Darkfriend after last episode 4?

I think it was meant to be super obvious, what with her attacking Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne. Immediately followed by a scene in which Ishamael appears to Min and tells her that he can give her what Liandrin promised.

Was it a case of being too obvious (and hence suspicious)? The actor and character being just too likeable (in a weird way)? Just denial of a thing you feared would be true?

I didn’t want to ask before this episode, as it was something known 100% as a book-reader, and I didn’t want to confirm something that was still slightly ambiguous.

I thought it was funny that there was a hypothetical discussion about the Selene/Lanfear/Forsaken thing being missable/not communicated enough, when there was this other thing that was supposed to be just as obvious, but was actually missed by a good number of people.

Rarity posted:

Yeah Liandrin's awesome. I kinda hope she'll come back to the Light in the end

Data Graham posted:

I can't remember clearly enough what the whole web of causality looks like but when Verin asks Liandrin about Egwene and Nynaeve and she tells her that they had left the Tower earlier, did Verin already know that that wasn't true?

That whole scene felt pretty clearly like it was conveying "she's lying and Verin knows it, and therefore ..." but I couldn't remember if Verin actually knows that at that point. (in-show)

Grundulum posted:

My non-book-reader wife has predicted that Lanfear will come back to the Light. We’re told that she only went dark because the previous Dragon rejected her, Rand doesn’t seem to mind the crazy too much, and she’s already told Ishamael she’ll betray him. That’d be a helluva coup for the side of Light if it happens, having the most dangerous of the forsaken back on your side.

nine-gear crow posted:

Speaking as someone who hasn't read all the books, but is book aware, I was legitimately curious what way they were going to go with Liandrin because it felt like there was an even split between "she's a Darkfriend and this is all just a con" and "they're taking a huge detour with her book role and she's just a really lovely good guy", and it seems they've settled on... both options being correct somehow? She's a lovely person who's still not 100% sold in the idea of being a Darkfriend and Nynaeve constantly needling her on how well her bullshit is working out for her is wreaking havoc with her character alignment. It's made her so much more fascinating to watch than if they'd just played her character as straight as it was in the books.

pseudorandom name posted:

You'd have to remember that the Three Oaths forbid using the One Power as a weapon against anyone except the forces of Darkness and that the Three Oaths are a magical compulsion that cannot be disobeyed.

xeria posted:

Now that it's revealed she's obviously a Darkfriend, I do like that her character isn't just comically evil and fully aligned to anyone else who's on the 'bad guy' side of the line. Like, yes she's a Darkfriend but she also clearly/openly loathes the Seanchan and what they do to channelers. And my take on her breaking Nynaeve's bonds specifically before she dipped is that Liandrin has a soft spot for her and doesn't really want her captive to the Seanchan (but also doesn't really give a poo poo about what happens to Egwene or Elayne), so definitely hoping we get more Nynaeve/Liandrin interaction in subsequent episodes/seasons.

Data Graham posted:

I can't remember clearly enough what the whole web of causality looks like but when Verin asks Liandrin about Egwene and Nynaeve and she tells her that they had left the Tower earlier, did Verin already know that that wasn't true?

That whole scene felt pretty clearly like it was conveying "she's lying and Verin knows it, and therefore ..." but I couldn't remember if Verin actually knows that at that point. (in-show)

nine-gear crow posted:

Verin knew that the stated reason why the girls left the tower in the Mistress of Novices's log book was a lie written under Compulsion that seemingly no one else was aware of, so Liandrian quoting the same reason word-for-word thinking she was pulling off the perfect alibi was all Verin needed to go "Hah! Gotcha bitch!"

Colonel Cool posted:

the power of love and/or dick.

Colonel Cool posted:

Personally I hope Rand doesn't redeem Lanfear with the power of love and/or dick.

DTurtle posted:

I agree, they’ve done a masterful job of giving the Darkfriends we‘ve met interesting, realistic, complex reasons for doing so. Except for Padan Fain, we haven’t really seen a mustache twirling evil Darkfriend.

nine-gear crow posted:

I hope they don't give Padan Fain ANY redeeming or complex characterization. I just want him to keep swaggering into scenes smiling and whistling, ruining peoples days, and then leaving with a spring in his step and clicking his heels in midair like he's a chimney sweep from Mary Poppins, because he loves being an evil bastard until he's torn apart by wolves or the whole rest of the cast all at once or something. I would like there to be a scene where even Ishamael is like "Dude, tone if the gently caress down already, you're creeping ME out." to him.

Rarity posted:

CainFortea posted:

This came up recently in reference to another property, Baldur's Gate 3.

When you have a cast of villains who are all villains who make sense, having that one who's just a total murder hobo for shits and giggles makes a lot of sense and is great.

nine-gear crow posted:

I hope they don't give Padan Fain ANY redeeming or complex characterization. I just want him to keep swaggering into scenes smiling and whistling, ruining peoples days, and then leaving with a spring in his step and clicking his heels in midair like he's a chimney sweep from Mary Poppins, because he loves being an evil bastard until he's torn apart by wolves or the whole rest of the cast all at once or something. I would like there to be a scene where even Ishamael is like "Dude, tone if the gently caress down already, you're creeping ME out." to him.

Loel posted:

Just have him give Aarons speech from Titus Andronicus, word for word.

"Lucius: Art thou not sorry for these heinous deeds?

Aaron: Ay, that I had not done a thousand more.
Even now I curse the day—and yet, I think,
Few come within the compass of my curse,—
Wherein I did not some notorious ill,
As kill a man, or else devise his death,
Ravish a maid, or plot the way to do it,
Accuse some innocent and forswear myself,
Set deadly enmity between two friends,
Make poor men's cattle break their necks;
Set fire on barns and hay-stacks in the night,
And bid the owners quench them with their tears.
Oft have I digg'd up dead men from their graves,
And set them upright at their dear friends' doors,
Even when their sorrows almost were forgot;
And on their skins, as on the bark of trees,
Have with my knife carved in Roman letters,
'Let not your sorrow die, though I am dead.'
Tut, I have done a thousand dreadful things
As willingly as one would kill a fly,
And nothing grieves me heartily indeed
But that I cannot do ten thousand more."

Moonlit Knight posted:

I wonder what people who haven't read the books think is the deal of the ajahs that we've seen at least a little bit of.

Gwaihir posted:

???

Liandrin specifically have a rundown of the Ajahs to Nynaeve earlier this season.

Gwaihir posted:

???

Liandrin specifically have a rundown of the Ajahs to Nynaeve earlier this season.

Gwaihir posted:

???

Liandrin specifically have a rundown of the Ajahs to Nynaeve earlier this season.

Moonlit Knight posted:

I might be going senile.

Hollismason posted:

How many episodes for this season? 8??

nine-gear crow posted:

I think so far only the Grays and the Whites haven't been explained by the show, but for anyone in the thread who's struggling to keep things straight:

Green - Soldiers
Red - Cops
Blue - Spies
Brown - Librarians
Yellow - Healers
Gray - Diplomats
White - Philosophers
Black - Darkfriends

Phenotype posted:

was really kind of a bad move for them to have a whole ajah especially for darkfriends