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Ham Equity posted:Also, you responded to a post responding to me, I'm pretty sure that means that you're my lawyer, now. 
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Sep 15, 2023 22:12
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Leperflesh posted:Reminder that even if they have overstayed, if they move out in the first month they are at least owed the deposit and second month's rent. Someone is owed that, anyway. I believe this to be their play, to get that cash, and perhaps even if they "lose" the first month's rent for overstaying by one day, they're still happy with that because that was money they weren't going to have anyway, it's coming out of the IRS's pocket somehow. You've posted this twice now. Do you somehow have access to the sales agreement and rental/leaseback contract that was signed by these parties? Not all rentbacks work like a month to month lease.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:17
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Ham, I think you can just ignore the dogpilers at this point. If the sellers actually have moved out already, and they’re just handing over the keys late for whatever reason, there’s not much risk they’re planning to squat, which is your biggest outstanding problem. If you’re acting on legal advice and running your plans past the DoR before refunding any portion of the rent advance / down payment to the sellers, legally you’re in as solid a place as you can be. Out of abundance of caution, I would not mention that you’re talking to the DoR to the sellers. If they ask about getting a refund right away, just tell them you’re still awaiting payment from escrow and you’ll send it on ASAP.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:20
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The dogpiling from people who don't understand the issue or are just willfully ignoring what's been said really tanks what could be a useful thread for people.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:25
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Yeah let’s wait to see what the sellers do. This could all become a big old fart in a hurry, or delicious meat. Let’s wait for a hint of umami before taking a bite.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:28
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rjmccall posted:Ham, I think you can just ignore the dogpilers at this point. If the sellers actually have moved out already, and they’re just handing over the keys late for whatever reason, there’s not much risk they’re planning to squat, which is your biggest outstanding problem. If you’re acting on legal advice and running your plans past the DoR before refunding any portion of the rent advance / down payment to the sellers, legally you’re in as solid a place as you can be. Yeah, this is the plan, and I'm hesitating to call the DoR before confirming with the lawyer that that is a good idea (given that we want to be up-front and avoid trouble with the DoR, I can't imagine it wouldn't be, but better safe than sorry). We haven't actually seen the place, but they've said they're totally moved out, and they said that before the DoR put the kibosh on their payout, so I don't know why they would have lied; I suppose they could have moved stuff back in. They could also just refuse to turn over the keys until they get their money, but we're going to find out today. And yeah, we're keeping mum on the DoR stuff. Really, we're telling them as little as possible other than "we want to have our lawyer review it and draft a release."
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Sep 15, 2023 22:29
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Sounds good, although I personally wouldn’t even mention lawyers. You have a tailor-made completely incontrovertible excuse for not writing them a check, which is that you haven’t gotten the money yourself yet.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:33
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Ham Equity posted:Thank you for this sanity check, Muir. I feel like the thread is gaslighting me. goons are idiots lol
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Sep 15, 2023 22:43
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Muir posted:And in many other states, it's not routine at all. It is not routine in California, for example.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:46
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Arsenic Lupin posted:True. I was answering the question of "Do lawyers come to meetings like this?" and the answer is "Sometimes". No, your answer ran the spectrum from "it's required" to "it's routine". To me this implies that any other approach is somehow negligent. Lockback posted:The dogpiling from people who don't understand the issue or are just willfully ignoring what's been said really tanks what could be a useful thread for people. Including mods, unfortunately.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:48
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Never forget the OP is buying this house with their friends
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Sep 15, 2023 22:53
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Upgrade posted:Never forget the OP is buying this house with their friends I've been reading "friends" as "polycule" this whole time and it makes it significantly more fun.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:57
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Motronic posted:You've posted this twice now. Do you somehow have access to the sales agreement and rental/leaseback contract that was signed by these parties? Not all rentbacks work like a month to month lease. Emphasis mine: Ham Equity posted:We have closed. The house is ours, all documents signed, we cannot walk away. As part of the sale agreement, there was a rentback for, like, $8500 a month, plus an $8500 security deposit. From the proceeds of the sale, the sellers "pre-paid" two months of rent and that security deposit. Provided the renters are out on time, the rent was to be waived, and they were to get that $25k, which was basically the only portion of the sale that was going to go to them instead of the DoR and other lienholders. The DoR attorney approved this, and the escrow company was holding the pre-paid rent, and was planning on releasing it to the sellers once we confirmed they'd vacated the home. The sellers have now said that they are not planning on vacating the home on time, in order to get the escrow company to release the $25k to us. I suspect that the other option would be for them to vacate on time, and the escrow company would release the $25k... to the Department of Revenue. Getting them to cut the check to us instead is a Hail Mary in the hopes that we will give them the funds out of the goodness of our hearts/a feeling of owing it to them for the sale, even if legally speaking it would be our money. So there's two rentbacks. The original one, expiring yesterday, at $17k inclusive of a security deposit; and the new pre-paid two months of rent plus the original security deposit, at $25k. I think Ham has been rounding and it's actually $25,500. What they'd get back is the $8500 security deposit from the original rentback, plus two months' rent at $17k: except, if they overstay, they're paying at least another month's rent ($8500) and then still, presumably when they move out, getting their $17k of second-month rent plus security deposit back. What might occur when Ham goes there in two hours is they also try to get the first month's $8500 back, e.g. the amount they're effectively defaulting: rent from Sept. 14 till I guess Oct 15 or whatever, by handing over the keys and pressuring Ham to not charge them $8500 for one day's rent. Of course, I do not "somehow" have access to the sales agreement and rental/leasback contract, I am basing my posts on what Ham has told us. But then, so is everyone, including you.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:02
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Leperflesh posted:So there's two rentbacks I don't think there is, HE just closed like a week ago. That's what spawned this whole conversation. There's 1 rentback agreement, for 2 months that just went into effect last night at 9pm. Before that it was the seller's property.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:05
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Ah, yeah, originally a rentback agreement was agreed-to, but then closing got pushed to august 24th anyway. That's three weeks ago, so I think somehow there was a three-week rentback. Unless close was pushed again? There's a lot of posts to sift through.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:11
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Ham Equity posted:I feel like the thread is gaslighting me. Lmao if you think this is abusive behavior you haven't seen poo poo yet. 
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Sep 15, 2023 23:12
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Leperflesh posted:Emphasis mine: Lockback posted:I don't think there is, HE just closed like a week ago. That's what spawned this whole conversation. There's 1 rentback agreement, for 2 months that just went into effect last night at 9pm. Before that it was the seller's property. Pham Nuwen posted:I've been reading "friends" as "polycule" this whole time and it makes it significantly more fun. If I were in your position, I would probably be reading it that way, too, but it's legit not like that. I barely have the patience for one person's romantic bullshit, let alone two.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:13
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Ham Equity posted:There's only one rentback. We closed on the 24th of August, the rentback started then. The security deposit might be $8500 or it might be $8000 I don't remember the exact amount, the original holdback was $25,000 and so we wanted to make the two months' pre-paid rent and security deposit that much; it might be $25,500 (we've been dealing with such large numbers through this process that $500 one way or another has really lost a lot of meaning to me). Provided they were out by the 16th of September, rent was to be waived, and they were to receive the $25k. Right, but, to resolve the point in question: have the sellers the contractual right to stay for up to two months, waiving their rent, and then leave and still receive their security deposit?
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Sep 15, 2023 23:18
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Leperflesh posted:Right, but, to resolve the point in question: have the sellers the contractual right to stay for up to two months, waiving their rent, and then leave and still receive their security deposit?
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Sep 15, 2023 23:21
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That you are not certain is, uh, concerning. Add it to the piles of concern. I understood it to be quite clear that what you were doing today is determining how much of their rentback they are not using and therefore getting a refund for: either all of it (two months + deposit) if they were out yesterday or if you are "generous", some of it (1 month + deposit) if they are out today per your contract, or none of it yet (they don't give you the keys and vacate). Is that not your understanding?
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Sep 15, 2023 23:26
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Leperflesh posted:That you are not certain is, uh, concerning. Add it to the piles of concern. Leperflesh posted:I understood it to be quite clear that what you were doing today is determining how much of their rentback they are not using and therefore getting a refund for: either all of it (two months + deposit) if they were out yesterday or if you are "generous", some of it (1 month + deposit) if they are out today per your contract, or none of it yet (they don't give you the keys and vacate). We're all on month-to-month leases, so if things go hard for me, I can probably just tell my landlord and get another month or two out of them. My co-owners live with other friends of ours who are not moving out of their place, so they will have zero problem dealing with it, other than wanting to be in the house and needing to pay for housing in two different places for a bit.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:34
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Leperflesh posted:I understood it to be quite clear My point is that you didn't understand this, you assumed this. I did not, because I haven't seen the contract and the person posting about it is an unreliable narrator in that regard. Leperflesh posted:Emphasis mine: All of this is speculation on your part. You're suggesting specific actions based on your speculation. You can "include me" in those who haven't seen the contract, but I'm not providing specific advice based on assumptions. You should probably consider not doing that anymore.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:34
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here in the housebuying thread, since we cannot see your contract, we no longer give advice just close the thread I guess to be less facetious, the post you quoted of mine in which I reminded other posters of the information we have about the rentback agreement wasn't advice, but you decided to ask me how I could know that, and if you just wanted to make the broad and obvious point that all of us are just reacting to what we're being told, you could have saved me the time I spent locating and quoting the post I was referring to In fact I have tried hard to avoid giving specific advice and have mostly asked questions and hedged my statements with "my understanding is" and "it seems to me" qualifiers. e, actually I've just reviewed and at no point have I given Ham any specific, actionable advice, even hedged, other than to talk to a lawyer. Ham Equity posted:It is definitely a concern, but also something that can wait, if that makes sense? If they're not out today, and refusing to leave for two months, it's a discussion we can have on Monday. That's a lot of probablies. Hopefully in an hour or two you'll have more clarity! Good luck! Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 00:06
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Leperflesh posted:If you get cut a $25k check you simultaneously should not give it to the sellers, and are withholding twenty five thousand dollars from people who know where you live and are highly motivated to get what they will see as "their money." I hope you install a good security system and you might want to adopt a Very Good Dog. actually, tell a lie, I did advise Ham Equity to get a dog! I also said not to gift someone $25k, back before Ham informed us that his accountant says this would not be taxable income. mea culpa, I guess.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:14
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Leperflesh posted:Reminder that even if they have overstayed, if they move out in the first month they are at least owed the deposit and second month's rent.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:17
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that is neither advice, nor addressed to Ham. It's a reminder to the thread because several people seem to have missed that this is a refund of rentback money. Do we still have a problem, motronic?
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Sep 16, 2023 00:17
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Ham Equity posted:I'm not considering "handing them a couple thousand dollars" and I don't know where you got that from. Ham Equity posted:If they hand over the keys today, we will probably give them most of the money, minus a bit to cover the lawyer. If they are not out today, we will probably work something out for that or less, provided they're out next week. If that doesn't happen, I'm not 100% sure what we will do; I would probably press to go hard and take every bit of that money we legally can Ham Equity posted:We haven't actually seen the place, but they've said they're totally moved out, and they said that before the DoR put the kibosh on their payout, so I don't know why they would have lied; I suppose they could have moved stuff back in. They could also just refuse to turn over the keys until they get their money, but we're going to find out today.   The fact that in the last 3 days you or one of your ménage a trios hasn’t at the very least driven by this house is 
Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 00:21
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Motronic posted:Not all rentbacks work like a month to month lease.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:21
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:
He's going to come back to a roof lying on some cinderblocks and nothing else.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:04
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home equity polycule
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Sep 16, 2023 01:05
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I think this is gonna go great for Ham Equity and they're going to be very happy in their new home.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:11
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SerCypher posted:I think this is gonna go great for Ham Equity and they're going to be very happy in their new home. Their new shared home!
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Sep 16, 2023 01:12
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SerCypher posted:I think this is gonna go great for Ham Equity and they're going to be very happy in their new home. Of course it will. Landlords always come out ahead.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:13
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DoubleT2172 posted:Their new shared home! Sharing is caring.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:17
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Sep 16, 2023 01:21
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Motronic posted:All of this is speculation on your part. You're suggesting specific actions based on your speculation. You can "include me" in those who haven't seen the contract, but I'm not providing specific advice based on assumptions. You should probably consider not doing that anymore. This is an internet forum full of hot takes, thoughtful but irrelevant replies, mockery, unsolicited advice, jokes, unprofessional advice, random information, and sometimes even useful commentary. Leper is right in that he says if people couldn't post "advice" -- put here in quotes because it's clearly unpaid, not from a lawyer or other licensed professional under contract, etc. -- on SA, we may as well shut down half the forums and ban half its posters. If anyone, and dear god especially someone who is already consulting with a lawyer, takes advice from something awful dot com without doing their own homework, that's their problem. I am pretty dang sure that if someone wanted to dig up posts from many thread regulars (please people do not do this) there is plenty of precedent for people providing advice based on assumptions. And then even being corrected or changing their minds later when new information comes to light! Frankly, it's pretty nice on how posters manage to correct the occasional bad info dished out in BFC. Very good forum at correcting bad ideas. anyway if you two wanna continue sniping back and forth maybe take it to PMs or something idk, people are here for Ham's absurdity
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Sep 16, 2023 01:22
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Ham Equity posted:, so if it's a few extra days on the keys to save $600, that's probably worthwhile for us. Ham Equity posted:(we've been dealing with such large numbers through this process that $500 one way or another has really lost a lot of meaning to me).
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Sep 16, 2023 01:45
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No contradiction. $600 is clearly larger than the no meaning number of $500, QED it has meaning.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:49
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Honestly I hope it works out well for you Ham. And it might. Sometimes poo poo just works out. Either way keep us updated though!
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Sep 16, 2023 01:49
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