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Ah right, yeah I'm not familiar with an equivalent. Unreal editor scripting is possible but I've never tried it, not to the level of anything I'd do using Odin. Though the Lyra sample project from Unreal uses some automated validation scripts so I know that kind of thing can be done, I'm just not sure how easy it is.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:47
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unreal's blueprints are different from game maker and unity's visual scripting thingies, they are not an semi functional alternative to code they are meant to extend code and give designers more immediate access to game and software logic, I like them a lot and when I split tasks with a cpp developer it often seems like the right solution often presents itself faster via blueprints, and although often stuff gets difficult to maintain it often brings certain features to a point where they're 'good enough' and you won't need to look at them for a while. with that said it's also sometimes really confusing when blueprints seem to reach a dead end, this is especially true within Lyra where some of the inheritance flows are really confusing to parse through, then again maybe I'm also a bit dim cause Lyra feels like an alien vessel or some poo poo to me at times, I've been trying to study it and extend it for like six months now and it's a struggle.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:13
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Yeah Lyra is spooky and incredibly complex, a lot of stuff is done through C++ and the "blueprint tour" doesn't tell you where to go next, so you'll be clicking randomly through Animation Blueprints and find "Animation Tour Step 7: Blah blah blah".
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Sep 13, 2023 23:53
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OneEightHundred posted:Why anyone thought this was a better idea than asking 5% of revenue is beyond me. Unity is very specifically avoiding this exact thing so they can’t be compared directly to Unreal Engine. All of the sudden, if their revenue model is the same, the shortcomings of Unity tech vs Unreal tech make it a harder sell. Also Unity really doesn’t want to give up the per seat recurring revenue. xgalaxy fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 16:23
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emanresu tnuocca posted:unreal's blueprints are different from game maker and unity's visual scripting thingies, they are not an semi functional alternative to code they are meant to extend code and give designers more immediate access to game and software logic, I like them a lot and when I split tasks with a cpp developer it often seems like the right solution often presents itself faster via blueprints, and although often stuff gets difficult to maintain it often brings certain features to a point where they're 'good enough' and you won't need to look at them for a while. Lyra is an incredibly useful resource to help point devs to various engine features, but the result is a game where powerful engine paradigms are relegated to exactly one tiny in-game result lol. As a result it's super overengineered for what it actually is. It still beats the alternative. Anyone remember Gigaya? The project Unity started to demonstrate Unity's strengths and feature-complete systems for shipping games? The project they cancelled because, as it turns out, Unity isn't a game engine but rather 49 half-baked alpha features in a trenchcoat? Unity sucks a lot. I started with it before switching to Unreal many years ago and I have no idea why anyone defends it other than a long-false myth that it's 'easier' than Unreal.
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Sep 14, 2023 16:34
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Chillmatic posted:Unity sucks a lot. I started with it before switching to Unreal many years ago and I have no idea why anyone defends it other than a long-false myth that it's 'easier' than Unreal. Perception matters, and Unreal's perception, for a long time, has been "this engine can do anything, but it also has a cliff-like learning curve and the knowledge base is mostly locked up inside the brains of AAA developers who aren't allowed to talk about their work". While Unity was the game engine that all the other indie devs were using, and they talked about their work all the time and shared their solutions, so better to rely on the wisdom of crowds. Like, you can argue about the reality vs. the perception, or the relative qualities of the two products, but I think that's an accurate description of how the two engines were perceived.
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Sep 14, 2023 16:44
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My experience working in both engines is that Unity is definitely much easier. C# is generally a more forgiving language, the crowds of people who have experienced the same or similar problem as you and have some sort of solution is very real and very critical. A lot of little basic things are easier out of the gate with what is to me a less confusing UI. It's just easier to get started with. Its when you get into more advanced things that run into unitys less baked features like the rendering pipeline, or more custom solutions and the crowd of wisdom dries up things get a little more difficult. For Unreal having it as a full time job helped me get over big hurdles of how to do things, most importantly though is having an former Unreal employee as a consultant who I sneakily ask non work related unreal questions 
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Sep 14, 2023 16:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Like, you can argue about the reality vs. the perception, or the relative qualities of the two products, but I think that's an accurate description of how the two engines were perceived. Can't argue with that. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Perception matters, and Unreal's perception, for a long time, has been "this engine can do anything, but it also has a cliff-like learning curve and the knowledge base is mostly locked up inside the brains of AAA developers who aren't allowed to talk about their work" That's fair, too. But I've worked in UE both at the indie and AAA levels, and to be honest there aren't that many super-secret resources available only to higher level professionals. By and large the knowledge base/documentation is the same for both groups: looking at the source code for whatever thing you're trying to figure out.
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Sep 14, 2023 16:51
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I tried godot, unity, and unreal, and godot was the easiest for me to get a 2d sprite project off the ground in due to good tutorials, while unity and unreal both seemed like 2d was an afterthought in a 3d system. Can't say godot is perfect or anything but at least it's improving over time 
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Sep 14, 2023 16:57
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Chillmatic posted:Unity sucks a lot. I started with it before switching to Unreal many years ago and I have no idea why anyone defends it other than a long-false myth that it's 'easier' than Unreal. yeah but it runs on mobile without a fuckton of optimization work
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Sep 14, 2023 23:27
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the talent deficit posted:yeah but it runs on mobile without a fuckton of optimization work It's this. This is the only good thing about unity.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:31
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The other shoe drops https://mobilegamer.biz/unity-is-offering-a-runtime-fee-waiver-if-you-switch-to-levelplay-as-it-tries-to-kill-applovin/
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Sep 14, 2023 23:44
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They mentioned that in the initial announcement though. If you use their services, especially their ad delivery system, they're willing to cut you a discount on the install fee. Totally ludicrous of course, and possibly runs afoul of monopoly law, but not exactly a secret.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:48
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Tunicate posted:I tried godot, unity, and unreal, and godot was the easiest for me to get a 2d sprite project off the ground in due to good tutorials, while unity and unreal both seemed like 2d was an afterthought in a 3d system.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:24
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On that note, my current project uses a lo-fi pixel aesthetic. In Unity that was just a matter of setting up the pixel-perfect camera with a 480x270 target resolution. I did also set up a render texture to do a similar tricky with particle effects, which required a little fiddly work with blend mode and the depth buffer, but wasn't too bad on the whole. How much of a pain is this gonna be in Unreal? I assume it's possible (if nothing else, than by using a render texture approach and manually snapping sprites to pixel boundaries), but I'm not sure I've heard of anyone doing pixel graphics in Unreal before.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:34
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roomforthetuna posted:100% if you want to do 2D Godot is way easier and won't keep burning you with things like "now you're gonna use the 3D physics engine with some constraints" and "instead of sprites why not use a 3D model so your game doesn't look how you want it to". Unreal's starting to take steps to bring their orthographic camera up to feature parity with the perspective camera, but it's still experimental. Production ready is a ways out, if it gets there.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:46
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Is there anything in the Unity Asset Store EULA that says I can't use the assets in another game engine? I ask because I have a ton of pretty nice character and monster models in my account that I would like to still make use of if possible.
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Sep 15, 2023 01:19
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:On that note, my current project uses a lo-fi pixel aesthetic. In Unity that was just a matter of setting up the pixel-perfect camera with a 480x270 target resolution. I did also set up a render texture to do a similar tricky with particle effects, which required a little fiddly work with blend mode and the depth buffer, but wasn't too bad on the whole. It has been a while, but I pretty much did exactly what you described in the last unreal project I was working on. I don't know if it was completely pixel perfect and it was pretty much locked to 16x9 1080p, but it did work.
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Sep 15, 2023 01:40
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Sweet, thanks! Unity's secret sauce on this is just that they have code to identify all sprites and automatically snap them to grid without affecting their logical positions. Basically just makes sure that you don't have a row/column of a sprite that straddles the boundary of two "pixels" in your display. I'm sure I can replicate that math with a little fiddly work, if necessary.
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Sep 15, 2023 01:57
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Somewhere buried in this 1hr video? https://youtu.be/60kA1JRiWK8?si=JUbuxTD49aqMLkk6
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Sep 15, 2023 02:49
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the talent deficit posted:yeah but it runs on mobile without a fuckton of optimization work And eats an entire battery in forty minutes flat if you don't, too.
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Sep 15, 2023 07:33
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Are there some Unreal 5 tutorials that are for a bit more experienced people? If I look up, say, C++ development in Unreal 5, I get Baby's First class in C++ using Unreal and that's way too basic. I would also be curious if there are some tutorials assuming you do already have C++ experience and how that would affect your approach to using or not using Blueprints. There are a lot of game genre tutorials that lean into Blueprints. I guess I should follow those but there's a monkey on my back that has me scratching to see how internal coding works up-front.
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Sep 15, 2023 21:26
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Back when I was trying Unreal, the C++ documentation was piss poor - mostly useless doxygen generated from source along the lines of "void DoBlah: Does Blah" - with nothing really explaining how to actually make use of the engine. It was extremely unpleasant. I've heard documentation in general is better these days, but don't know how true that is for C++. And blueprints are great for people who want to spend five minutes dragging poo poo around for something that would take 20 seconds to type. Absolutely hate visual scripting. chglcu fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Sep 15, 2023 |
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Sep 15, 2023 21:40
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https://twitter.com/byobattleship/status/1702784187147915707
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Sep 15, 2023 22:27
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Indie devs showing a lot of restraint using the radio edit.
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Sep 16, 2023 03:03
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I'm saving my swears for a little project that the Dogpit is working on. It's a lot saltier.
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Sep 16, 2023 03:10
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At one time or another I tried both Unity and Unreal. I didn't find the Unreal documentation *too* bad but it was definitely easier finding examples on github of what I wanted to do. I was interested in procedural generation at the time and so I wanted to know how to construct a mesh (say, a terrain, but I wanted the knowledge generally anyway) and so I did find a procedural terrain plugin on github, but the code was atrocious. No instructions and no null checks meant it crashed the Unreal editor constantly, so I had to fix all that to unblock myself and *then* learn how it all worked. That's basically how I think of them in my head - Unreal is C++, which is a fine language I enjoy generally, but every mistake you (or anyone you're relying on, like code you found somewhere) made might crash the editor, and it'll make you fix it before you can reload it, and Unity is more resilient, since C# is a managed language and so it can just go "uh nope" if you make a mistake, in a more graceful way. I have actually said "Unity is like the Python of gamedev" to friends, not counting that Python itself is the Python of gamedev, since it lets you hack stuff up fast and easily due to the general lack of giant crashes, but I liked Unreal anyway.
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Sep 16, 2023 06:24
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Charles Ford posted:At one time or another I tried both Unity and Unreal. I didn't find the Unreal documentation *too* bad but it was definitely easier finding examples on github of what I wanted to do. I was interested in procedural generation at the time and so I wanted to know how to construct a mesh (say, a terrain, but I wanted the knowledge generally anyway) and so I did find a procedural terrain plugin on github, but the code was atrocious. No instructions and no null checks meant it crashed the Unreal editor constantly, so I had to fix all that to unblock myself and *then* learn how it all worked. I think C++ is a little easier than you think, as long as you throw some exception handling into your code with error messages that make sense to you, that’s half the battle right there. Seriously, go nuts and make your errors as verbose as possible; it’ll actually help a lot.
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Sep 16, 2023 06:34
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tango alpha delta posted:I think C++ is a little easier than you think, as long as you throw some exception handling into your code with error messages that make sense to you, that’s half the battle right there. Oh yeah - I've used C++ for years professionally but in a non-game context and I like it a lot  My complaint is mostly those Unreal plugins I found on github. Mostly there seemed to be places in Unreal where an object will accept a pointer to an instance (like where you can plug an object into another object in the editor). You don't *need* to, particularly because you might just have not done it yet as you're still setting up stuff in the editor, but the code will just try and use those pointers, and crash.My main issue is that traditionally you can't set an exception handler for a null pointer as that's a system level error (but there are ways, like on Windows it's Structured Exception Handling, and I think POSIX has some C++-flavoured signal generation though I haven't tried it) but it just feels a bit like DOS programming back in the day where making a mistake in your C/C++ app with pointers took out your process, the IDE, and DOS itself. But significantly less bad, since at least now the OS and IDE survives Edit: That is to say, I'm mostly complaining about hilariously bad third party code that one might stumble upon as "sample code" while trying to learn, I think Unreal itself is good. I even added a bunch of null checks to one and sent a PR, but they didn't care. Charles Ford fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 06:43
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Charles Ford posted:Oh yeah - I've used C++ for years professionally but in a non-game context and I like it a lot Quality of samples is going to go down a lot in the immediate term.
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Sep 16, 2023 17:50
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Charles Ford posted:At one time or another I tried both Unity and Unreal. I didn't find the Unreal documentation *too* bad but it was definitely easier finding examples on github of what I wanted to do. I was interested in procedural generation at the time and so I wanted to know how to construct a mesh (say, a terrain, but I wanted the knowledge generally anyway) and so I did find a procedural terrain plugin on github, but the code was atrocious. No instructions and no null checks meant it crashed the Unreal editor constantly, so I had to fix all that to unblock myself and *then* learn how it all worked. You have no idea how annoyed I am with the C# Triangle port BECAUSE of some similar problems I've experienced with the code crashing in some narrowly specific edge case.  I dunno if the C++ version (Triangle is originally C?) is better, but I'll probably find out whenever I switch over to Unreal!
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Sep 16, 2023 18:19
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chglcu posted:Back when I was trying Unreal, the C++ documentation was piss poor - mostly useless doxygen generated from source along the lines of "void DoBlah: Does Blah" - with nothing really explaining how to actually make use of the engine. It was extremely unpleasant. I've heard documentation in general is better these days, but don't know how true that is for C++. Lol I do visual Scripting for work (blue prism) and you can't even do proper if statements in it, every one is drawn out. Luckily you can just use vbs/c# in it. So my "visual scripts" are just a bunch of connected c# scripts. It's maddening. Imagine having to do this for each if/else statement you want to do.  Harminoff fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 18:25
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Embrace the Select Node in blueprints and you'll never go back to whining about visual scripting being too messy. Also do normal programming things like not having a metric poo poo ton of logic in one event or method. You know, super basic principles. All scripting is messy if you suck at it.
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Sep 16, 2023 18:29
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Chillmatic posted:Embrace the Select Node in blueprints and you'll never go back to whining about visual scripting being too messy. Also do normal programming things like not having a metric poo poo ton of logic in one event or method. You know, super basic principles. Woahwoahwoah, that's a 9,000$ conference seminar money you're leaving on the table there! Don't just give out industry secrets like this! Jokes aside, it sounds obvious but the Single Responsibility Principle is like actually one of those things you sometimes need to learn.
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Sep 16, 2023 18:45
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Hey gang, I'm attempting a career shift into the weird, wild world of videogames. Somebody liked my portfolio enough that he's offered me a writing contract for his game. Problem is, he's asking me to scope out my timeline and pay rate and I'm only used to working the corporate 9-5 where I didn't have to think about that stuff. My old job was QA and while I did go to school for writing about 10000 years ago, outside of some early internships/assistant roles, I don't have much professional experience, so he's really bringing me on based on my short stories and some volunteer writing/editing I've done for some mods and in-dev indie titles. I'll just post the email since there's nothing identifying in it:quote:Work is all remote and can be done at any time. im in Canada btw, if that matters
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Sep 16, 2023 22:33
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None of that is how writing for games works. If this person is willing to pay you what you’re worth then go nuts. But be advised you’re almost certainly not going to learn anything about working on games on a project like that. Like LOL at calling for a “final story” while still in pre-production
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Sep 16, 2023 23:19
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Oof. Idea guys. Get paid up front or at least every week so you don't lose too much of your time.
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Sep 16, 2023 23:22
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Idea Guys are hilarious. I had an IdeaGuy who wanted me to convert his MATLAB calculations into a real time C++ application that perfectly simulates wear and load and full physics on a drill bit drilling through different strata. In real time. In 3D. He told me it should be super easy. I told him that he would need a small army of experts. LOL e: Now he is trying to get ChatGPT to write an app for him. I wished him all the best in his endeavors. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 23:29
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quote:The first step would be to review the initial 39-page point form story line that the original writer and myself drafted. The purpose of this initial document was mostly for world building and just to get a lot of our ideas down on paper. I will also provide a second document that will further clarify which ideas are to be used and which should not be. 
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Sep 16, 2023 23:30
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Bill by the hour, and get paid regularly (weekly or something).
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Sep 16, 2023 23:33
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