(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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This is part of the reason why the XM30 will have a 50mm autocannon. I wish the US would just send another few hundred Bradleys.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:17
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:ukrainian soldier gives some thoughts on the bradley Yeah the lack of cannon power on the Bradley has been a complaint for decades now.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:50
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Ironically, 25mm APFSDS can still shred a T-72 or T-64. I'd be curious of the newest variants added armor beyond ERA blocks, but I don't think any have.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:58
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Ynglaur posted:Ironically, 25mm APFSDS can still shred a T-72 or T-64. I'd be curious of the newest variants added armor beyond ERA blocks, but I don't think any have. I think they were complaining about range rather than firepower?
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Sep 17, 2023 19:02
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I've heard the ability to bust trenches was a big factor in usizing the autocannon. 25mm had trouble moving dirt, despite bonking Soviet tanks just fine.
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Sep 17, 2023 19:13
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It does seem like upgrading to at least 30 mm is a good plan for a lot of vehicles moving forward. Apparently the switch between 30 mm and 50 mm is more academic - the Army wants the ability to switch between them easily but it doesn’t necessarily require a whole lot more space. The big concern would be retaining significant ammunition reserves. Giving up practical burst fire capability would be a mistake.
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Sep 17, 2023 19:49
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Here's the newest Perun, by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctrtAwT2sgs
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Sep 17, 2023 19:53
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BillsPhoenix posted:Yes, this is it! Console war is perfect. Society has no issue slapping the term all over. I don't know how tired people are of this by now but i have to comment on it because you perfectly captured the flaw in your takes with this particular point It's not that "suddenly there's a bunch of caveats" when you're talking about Ukraine about what makes a war a real war The caveats are there for every single example. The exact same standards are why nobody's seriously arguing that the console wars are a real actual war because "war" is in the name.
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Sep 17, 2023 19:58
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Kaal posted:It does seem like upgrading to at least 30 mm is a good plan for a lot of vehicles moving forward. Apparently the switch between 30 mm and 50 mm is more academic - the Army wants the ability to switch between them easily but it doesn’t necessarily require a whole lot more space. The big concern would be retaining significant ammunition reserves. Giving up practical burst fire capability would be a mistake. There is no ammo reserve difference between the 35mm and the 50mm. Because the 50mm is not a proportionally scaled up round, it's the 35mm round necked up to full case width. The APFSDS shot isn't any more powerful, but the HE shell can fit a lot more burst charge, and that won't be compromised nearly as much by using a more complicated fuze.  (50mm APFSDS, 50mm HE, 35mm HE)
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Sep 17, 2023 20:34
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The 35mm round definitely looks safer with its flared base
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Sep 17, 2023 20:59
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Cable Guy posted:They're selling Christmas puddings at my local supermarket already. That boat has sailed.
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Sep 17, 2023 21:07
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Groggy nard posted:I've heard the ability to bust trenches was a big factor in usizing the autocannon. 25mm had trouble moving dirt, despite bonking Soviet tanks just fine. There's apparently a round type which basically airbursts over trenches which from the testing videos looked terrifying because you could basically just walk it down the line.
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Sep 17, 2023 21:36
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Antigravitas posted:Here's the newest Perun, by the way: Especially with regards to the point that it is important for Ukraine to keep up a high tempo of operations in order to ensure that Russian materiel losses keep on being much higher than new production. Currently Russia can keep up to a certain degree by drawing from Soviet era depots, but even those are finite.
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Sep 17, 2023 22:06
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Telsa Cola posted:There's apparently a round type which basically airbursts over trenches which from the testing videos looked terrifying because you could basically just walk it down the line. If it's the one I think you're talking about you rangefind the distance to an object and the shell(s) are programmed to airburst a moment after they're calculated to pass over it. So, for example exploding just past a wall, just inside a window, or over a trench.
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Sep 17, 2023 22:40
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Telsa Cola posted:There's apparently a round type which basically airbursts over trenches which from the testing videos looked terrifying because you could basically just walk it down the line. Air-Burst-Munition capable guns are basically a NATO standard iirc, the Puma can use it too. AHEAD ammo is pretty scary.
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Sep 17, 2023 23:12
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Warbadger posted:If it's the one I think you're talking about you rangefind the distance to an object and the shell(s) are programmed to airburst a moment after they're calculated to pass over it. So, for example exploding just past a wall, just inside a window, or over a trench. Battlefield 2142 had a weapon that could do it, most people couldn't figure out how to do it but once you did you got so many ragetells and hate for lobbing airbursts behind cover. Especially since that was before they made maps have destructible terrain in that series. I can only imagine how bowel liquefying terrifying that stuff is to face in the real world.
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Sep 17, 2023 23:18
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Kaal posted:The big concern would be retaining significant ammunition reserves. Giving up practical burst fire capability would be a mistake. The 50mm auto cannon that the army is interested in is using just a necked up 30mm cartridge so the logistics (size wise at least, it weighs a bit more) are the same as regular 30mm. The advantage with this approach is that you get more bang (more explosives in 50mm round than 30mm) and you can more easily and cheaply put fancy fuse tech in them for 'smart' rounds for anti air or anti trench work. The downside is the ballistics (range) won't be any better than 30mm but apparently that doesn't much matter. Or at least they think it doesn't. They're probably right since you'll still have a few km of practical range which is fine for a IFV auto cannon.
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Sep 17, 2023 23:57
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The 30mm to 50mm autocannon NATO is deploying or developing have public effective ranges of around 3000m, compared to the public range of around 2000m for 25mm. If you look at the depth of minefields used by Russia in southern Ukraine, you can see why that extra 1000m matters.
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Sep 18, 2023 00:41
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Ynglaur posted:The 30mm to 50mm autocannon NATO is deploying or developing have public effective ranges of around 3000m, compared to the public range of around 2000m for 25mm. If you look at the depth of minefields used by Russia in southern Ukraine, you can see why that extra 1000m matters. I think it's also notable you can fit a hell of a lot more payload in a single 50mm round than 25mm. And when you're lobbing just a few smart munitions around at a time that's a lot more bang for your buck - given the smart bits are the same either way.
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Sep 18, 2023 00:53
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how much does a smart round cost versus a dummy?
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Sep 18, 2023 01:04
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Bell_ posted:I was in Germany last year and at the very beginning of September they were selling Christmas breads, if you're looking as to how Halloween was stollen from you. I love you.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:13
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Cpt_Obvious posted:how much does a smart round cost versus a dummy? The XM25 which fires 25mm airburst rounds has a cost of about $25/round, so I think theyre actually a pretty reasonable value proposition considering that once youre buying the 35mm and 50mm shells the electronics cost of the airburst fuzing could actually be a fairly small proportion of the shell cost. Its a very different proposition from the gps guided shells which cost anywhere from 10x to 100x the cost of normal artillery shells -- in theory you could be looking at more like 1.5x the cost of a normal round. If you're paying 50% more but need half as many shots, you would be coming out on top. Theres also multiple suppliers for 35mm/50mm airburst ammo, though its not clear to me if theyre working on a common standard or not.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:37
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The 50mm auto cannon that the army is interested in is using just a necked up 30mm cartridge so the logistics (size wise at least, it weighs a bit more) are the same as regular 30mm. The 50 mm is a reworked version of the 35 mm cartridge, not the 30 mm. My understanding is that it’s largely an improvement all the way around over the 35 mm - the ammo fires slower but farther, and with greater effect. And the Army has explored a similar program with renecked 40 mm ammo as well. However, the 30 / 40 mm system has roughly twice the ammunition capacity given the same amount of space as the 35 / 50 mm version. So it’s a trade-off for sure. The Army wants to make sure that any IFV is capable of mounting the 50 mm if needed, which is a reasonable requirement. But the actual value comparison seems more debatable. Much like the arguments over the 120 / 130 / 140 mm cannons for MBTs, or even the one over the 5.56 vs. 6.8 mm rifles, there’s both pros and cons in making your guns larger. https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2016/04/bigger-guns-are-not-always-better.html?m=1 https://soapbox.manywords.press/2019/06/04/on-the-xm913-50mm/ https://euro-sd.com/2023/01/articles/29124/medium-calibre-weapons-back-to-the-future/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 02:43
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Ynglaur posted:This is part of the reason why the XM30 will have a 50mm autocannon. I wish the US would just send another few hundred Bradleys. At this point the Russian response to other countries supplying additional materials to Ukraine has been pretty toothless. I would be thrilled if we could just send every aging armored vehicle to Ukraine to help them out. It would be a huge help to us to not store/sell them to the police and it looks like they are really helpful to Ukrainian service members. I know there is the optics of $$ that we are sending over to Ukraine, plus the refit & transport costs, but I think the Biden admin should emphasize the cost savings of not having to store/maintain the materials anymore. The only downside I can see to this approach is if America somehow gets into an attritional shooting war,, but that's such a Clancy Chat possibility that I think it can be discounted entirely.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:27
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Attach recording devices to gather combat-data for the next design revision and you could probably frame it as value-positive.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:54
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dr_rat posted:But Halloween isn't even for like a month and a half. Bell_ posted:I was in Germany last year and at the very beginning of September they were selling Christmas breads, if you're looking as to how Halloween was stollen from you. === As far as the Kadyrov situation goes, are there any prospective successors? Has Kadyrov named one?
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Sep 18, 2023 06:19
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Cable Guy posted:The Halloween beachhead has been lost, Christmas has swept through October and the September equinox. Tinsel decorated forces are now invading early September The Fourth of July is currently providing security assistance to Labor Day. The gates hold there...for now.
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Sep 18, 2023 07:40
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Bell_ posted:I was in Germany last year and at the very beginning of September they were selling Christmas breads, if you're looking as to how Halloween was stollen from you. This was a very good pun.
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Sep 18, 2023 07:56
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Alexey Venediktov (way more reputable leak outlet) reports that Kadyrov has chronic renal failure https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1703699520297607450?t=EYX__sYOl-kUMQTNcJljXg&s=19 fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 11:50
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fatherboxx posted:Alexey Venediktov (way more reputable leak outlet) reports that Kadyrov has chronic anal failure (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 18, 2023 12:07
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He is not old, does not drink, and at least prior to the last few years seemed to be active. What are the chances of kidney problems if all that is the case?
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Sep 18, 2023 12:21
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Dick Ripple posted:He is not old, does not drink, and at least prior to the last few years seemed to be active. What are the chances of kidney problems if all that is the case? Does not drink might be a wrong assumption.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:27
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Dick Ripple posted:He is not old, does not drink, and at least prior to the last few years seemed to be active. What are the chances of kidney problems if all that is the case?
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Sep 18, 2023 12:29
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Dick Ripple posted:He is not old, does not drink, and at least prior to the last few years seemed to be active. What are the chances of kidney problems if all that is the case? Just because he is muslim in public doesnt mean he does not drink
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Sep 18, 2023 12:30
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https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1703727556757688788
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Sep 18, 2023 12:30
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I'm no boat-talker but that sub looks proper hosed to me. Might even be fire damage on the inside too which I'm lead to understand is a not-good, possibly even bad, thing.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:34
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yeah i'm not an expert but i think that's too many big missile holes for a submarine to have
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Sep 18, 2023 12:46
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eke out posted:yeah i'm not an expert but i think that's too many big missile holes for a submarine to have Speed holes, ect.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:47
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Just slap some duct tape on it, it'll be fine
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Sep 18, 2023 12:48
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bird food bathtub posted:I'm no boat-talker but that sub looks proper hosed to me. Might even be fire damage on the inside too which I'm lead to understand is a not-good, possibly even bad, thing. Who wants to risk diving in a sub with that much damage to its structural integrity? Not even a pile of carbon fibre is going to save that one. 
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Sep 18, 2023 12:54
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