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Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
That series was what first got me onto ACOUP. For a, uh, not fun but well laid out and grim reminder of what war is, look at his breakdown of army marches + pillaging complete with the math on how many calories are required per person, and how those calories are now not available to the surviving farmers of the settlement the army just went through.

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Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

Vavrek posted:

:same:
I need to read more of Lewis's stuff for adults. Hell, I need to reread the Space Trilogy as an adult. It was absolutely wild reading it as a kid.

I actually re-read some parts of the Space Trilogy this year. It is absolutely insane, but if you're willing to accept its wacky premise, it's a lot of fun. The third book is probably the preachiest, but it's more the anti-industrialist/anti-capitalist (with a huge asterisk, obviously) type of preachy than the High Church Anglican preachy. Definitely happy I was into Lewis as a child instead of Harry Potter, lol.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I find it extremely funny that tolkien writes a book and then after the fact thinks "hmm my characters might be doing a bad thing in hindsight when they personally murder hundreds of people, I need to change the ontological basis of reality in order to fix this"

Mescal
Jul 23, 2005

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

OwlFancier posted:

I find it extremely funny that tolkien writes a book and then after the fact thinks "hmm my characters might be doing a bad thing in hindsight when they personally murder hundreds of people, I need to change the ontological basis of reality in order to fix this"

As has been noted, this is the most Catholic possible way of doing things.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

ikanreed posted:

CS lewis also famously got so owned by woman in a debate about naturalism that he almost stopped writing entirely.

One: fascinating! Thanks for mentioning that, looks interesting.
Two: the woman herself said she thought the later accounts of his reaction were kind of overblown:

G.E.M. Anscombe, that very same Wikipedia page posted:

I am inclined to construe the odd accounts of the matter by some of his friends – who seem not to have been interested in the actual arguments or the subject matter – as an interesting example of the phenomenon called "projection".



Paladinus posted:

I actually re-read some parts of the Space Trilogy this year. It is absolutely insane, but if you're willing to accept its wacky premise, it's a lot of fun. The third book is probably the preachiest, but it's more the anti-industrialist/anti-capitalist (with a huge asterisk, obviously) type of preachy than the High Church Anglican preachy. Definitely happy I was into Lewis as a child instead of Harry Potter, lol.
I credit Perelandra as being probably the first book I ever read wherein characters stood around and actually talked about serious issues for any length of time, in any depth or complexity. That Hideous Strength was almost incomprehensible, in a way. I could follow descriptions of what was happening physically, and I could kind of piece together character stories, but looking back at it I think an enormous amount of the story was in significant issues that were above my head / beyond my ken.

Agreed on Harry Potter. My dad tried to recommend it to me at the time (I was about the right age) and I rejected it immediately because a one-sentence description sounded like a ripoff of The Dark Is Rising (and, at that age, I considered this both obvious and a grave offense).

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys
The best bit in Perelandra is that angels flicker because they have to project themselves onto a planet that is, from their point of view, spinning rapidly and zipping around the sun.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.




Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



is the unit on the x axis truly "amount" as in a bunch of them have a mere 2?

i think the dataset might be flawed even if it works out proportionally irl

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Ironic that the character “Ace” fucks more than almost anyone

Vashro
May 12, 2004

Proud owner of Lazy Lion #46
40 min rant about awful plots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QMKFzW9fw&t=835s

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa

i agree that the symmetry of violin plots is unnecessary, and the complaint about how yonic they are, and how that places women in STEM in uncomfortable positions where they have to roll with the "joke" about it, is absolutely true. which means i generally buy the argument of the rest of the video. it's at best a choice to add redundancy for aesthetic reasons, and definitely makes it harder to compare values since the baseline is implicit and in the center of the glyph. i've heard only one even somewhat compelling defense of that symmetry, in this paper where they argue that the lack of baseline in the symmetrical glyph makes people focus on shape/area rather than value, which you might want if your task is to compare gestalt distributions rather than have people anchor on specific values, but that seems like a pretty narrow and contingent situation.

i likewise agree that using a continuous encoding like a kde for discrete data (like the gay marriage laws example in the video) is bad, although i'd argue that that cuts both ways, and using discrete encodings for continuous data is also potentially misleading (i guess this is usually framed as a violation of expressiveness).

but i mean smoothing is not inherently bad, lots of reasons to use a kde rather than a discrete histogram (esp. if you want to, you know, show people an estimate of a continuous distribution). and poor binning in histograms based on just mindlessly accepting defaults in plotting tools is also a similar sort of problem to mindlessly accepting kde defaults.

and box plots are no great shakes either, beyond the "making unimodal and bimodal data look the same" issue. although i disagree that kdes are mostly for "wonky" data where the box plot would be inappropriate: i think showing that, yeah, the data are nicely guassian or whatever is a good way of adding trust in the boxplot, and proof that you didn't mindlessly plot central tendencies without checking the distribution first. i think that's also why you'd juxtapose a histogram and raw data as in stuff like bean plots (although i agree that when there's only a few points, the KDE doesn't add much, and I'd rather just have the raw data and a mean or something): it's giving you evidence of the appropriateness of the aggregation strategy, and also has different affordances like picking out outliers/tailedness/etc. boxplots also have the issue that there's ambiguity about what the whiskers are meant to represent (they are labeled as min and max in the video, and that's a common convention, but when tukey proposed them he meant for the whiskers to be the "hinges" that are the farthest data points within 1.5 IQR of the median, and that's also still common, and even more common to plot just +/- 1.5 IQR directly).

i'm less annoyed by the "some rando combines existing things and names it and wants cites for it" thing since that is, i'd say, pretty much 95% of science at this point.

the proposed overlapping histograms or kdes (like in 10:26) are often totally unreadable even with just a few categories (they've been called "one of the worst graphs for comparing groups of data" in the lit since the 90s or so), since they rely on alpha-based color blending (that can generate false or ambiguous colors, produce lots of visual noise from intersection areas, etc.). ridgeline plots have similar issues with occlusion and comparability as well (like the example at 21:20, imagine if the data were less smooth: the occluded areas would hide lots of presumably important data).

anyway i think combining multiple visualizations of a distribution is fine. there's stuff like half eye plots that i think are useful for showing inferential + distributional info, and raincloud plots that i'd say are more for data checking/error detection than comparison but also have their uses.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

Kenning
Jan 11, 2009

I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.



Wow

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001
Who let the engineering students near a pie graph???

ynohtna
Feb 16, 2007

backwoods compatible
Illegal Hen

Goddamn.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013


I'd love to see a zoomed out version so I can shame whoever made this

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!
Honestly 15% of your "skilled" workers being in engineering seems kinda high.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


ikanreed posted:

Honestly 15% of your "skilled" workers being in engineering seems kinda high.

As of 2019, only about half of engineering graduates ended up working as engineers. I don't know how many of them stick with it long term but it's certainly not everyone.

Sentient Data
Aug 31, 2011

My molecule scrambler ray will disintegrate your armor with one blow!
I wonder if that includes all the companies that use "engineer" as the title for a maintenance person that also knows the basics of hvac/electrical

MrUnderbridge
Jun 25, 2011

Yeah, there's two "engineers" - the ones who run the machine (think engineer on a train) and the ones who design the machine.

Not a lot of overlap in skill sets there, but it lets guys who monitor the dials on a reactor on a carrier call themselves "nuclear engineers".

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Sentient Data posted:

I wonder if that includes all the companies that use "engineer" as the title for a maintenance person that also knows the basics of hvac/electrical
At least the study linked would consider those as engineer technologists.

ultrafilter posted:

As of 2019, only about half of engineering graduates ended up working as engineers. I don't know how many of them stick with it long term but it's certainly not everyone.
Worth noting it looks like the half figure includes engineering degreed people working in other sciences than their primary discipline which is awesome and should be encouraged in many cases.

The remainder is largely management which confirms that engineering has fully finished a transformation into "business school but with calculus" over the past 20 years of STEMmania so it is a very popular default program for advisors to slam students in and wait for them to fail out and get the patented money reaping 8 year undergrad marketing degree.

zedprime has a new favorite as of 15:11 on Sep 18, 2023

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Sentient Data posted:

I wonder if that includes all the companies that use "engineer" as the title for a maintenance person that also knows the basics of hvac/electrical

My job title says Engineer even though I am not one. Pretty dumb, really.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Sentient Data posted:

I wonder if that includes all the companies that use "engineer" as the title for a maintenance person that also knows the basics of hvac/electrical

Almost certainly this and also people who write lovely JavaScript web apps.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

All the technicians at my company have engineer in their official job title, apparently it was originally used as an excuse to pay them salary so they wouldn't receive overtime.

Mescal
Jul 23, 2005

Leviathan Song
Sep 8, 2010
Where I work, everyone with the term manager or specialist is an engineer. Everyone with the term engineer in their job title is not an engineer. I've never met anyone in those jobs that would disagree. I don't think official job title is a great indicator of whether or not someone is an engineer.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
The only job title enhancer faker than “engineer” is “vice president”.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
I don't even have a job title.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



i think my official title is information technology coworker, lol

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001
People remember their job titles? What a loving waste of brain cells.

jeebus bob
Nov 4, 2004

Festina lente
I'm technically a "head of section" though I barely head my own desk except in a locomotory sense

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001
I once won an end of year award for "best worker in department" or some such. As the organisation was reshuffling stuff at the time, I was technically the only person in that department that year. I wasn't even a manager.

Fun times.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Antigravitas posted:

I don't even have a job title.

...do you have s hereditary title, then?

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
Not even that. I am an exceptionally average boring person.
The website lists me as working in the "IT Group".

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

I have two job titles. The reason for two was never explained to me, and it's never come up because my actual work has little to do with the titles.

One of them is "Innovation Engineer" which I tell my friends half-braggingly but would be embarrassed to say to someone professionally.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Antigravitas posted:

Not even that. I am an exceptionally average boring person.
The website lists me as working in the "IT Group".

I think that makes your job title "Pennywise".

Diet Poison
Jan 20, 2008

LICK MY ASS
I believe here in Canada, "engineer" is a protected word you can't use in your job title unless you're actually a P.Eng. Which I'm sure has absolutely no teeth whatsoever but maybe it does, I dunno. I'm an engineering technologist but I usually call myself a "drafter/designer" because, I dunno, the former makes me feel like people think I'm trying to call myself an engineer to big myself up. Which I'd never do. I technically work for myself so if I wanted to do that I'd call myself President/CEO/Founder of (whatever I'm calling my one-man shitshow this week, legally my company name is just my own name).

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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Diet Poison posted:

I believe here in Canada, "engineer" is a protected word you can't use in your job title unless you're actually a P.Eng. Which I'm sure has absolutely no teeth whatsoever but maybe it does, I dunno. I'm an engineering technologist but I usually call myself a "drafter/designer" because, I dunno, the former makes me feel like people think I'm trying to call myself an engineer to big myself up. Which I'd never do. I technically work for myself so if I wanted to do that I'd call myself President/CEO/Founder of (whatever I'm calling my one-man shitshow this week, legally my company name is just my own name).

PEO sued Microsoft and won over the E in MCSE, but I see tons of companies use the term anyway. I guess until you're Microsoft-sized, you're too small to be worth the trouble.

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