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I want Alphinaud to suffer every consequence
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Sep 15, 2023 18:07
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:43 |
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I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos
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Sep 15, 2023 19:14
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Alphinaud is under my protection
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Sep 15, 2023 19:24
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alphinaud must suffer for his art
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Sep 15, 2023 19:25
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Stalins Moustache posted:I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos You're in luck
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Sep 15, 2023 20:41
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Stalins Moustache posted:I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos this guy gets it
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Sep 15, 2023 23:03
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EW suffers coming after the pinnacle of shadowbringers, I hated how zodiark was dealt with, thought meteon was mid. I did cry at the urangier/moenbrida part though, they got me good there.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:29
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Playing it at launch I thought the way Zodiark played out was great. Surprise!
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Sep 16, 2023 02:45
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I had a pretty positive response at first but I cooled on it later. Describes most of the Endwalker pre-patch story for me really.
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Sep 16, 2023 03:02
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Stalins Moustache posted:I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos 
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Sep 17, 2023 09:53
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Stalins Moustache posted:I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos The MMO HMO > MMO CHAT: I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos
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Sep 17, 2023 20:01
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Stalins Moustache posted:I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos They hated him because he told them the truth.
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Sep 18, 2023 00:43
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MH Knights posted:The MMO HMO > MMO CHAT: I want to suffer. It's why I play mmos
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Sep 18, 2023 02:26
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I really hate how badly the proliferation of information hosed with MMOs. Any secret is datamined before the patches come out, people already numbercrunch everything to find the One Viable Build instantly, and even if you don't partake in this crap everyone else who plays does so you're just at a disadvantaeg for no reason. Sucks that even if some madman managed to make a modern day big budget MMO that was more like the good ol days, none of that magic would be there after a week. Speaking as someone whose been playing MMOs far too long; this has always been here. UO had Stratics and a lot of people crunching maths and figuring out optimal macros on the two Usenet groups, EQ had players reverse-engineering all of the game’s mechanics right from launch because they had to (Verant’s original game design was “We ain’t gonna tell the players poo poo because that’s more immersive “), and AC had that weird magic system that was practically inviting people to come up with 3rd party tools to figure it out. So the expectation that MMOs would have sites spoiling the poo poo out of everything was baked in right from the very start of the genre.
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Sep 19, 2023 10:11
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Itzena posted:Speaking as someone whose been playing MMOs far too long; this has always been here. Agreed, but the difference is that knowledge of these things wasn't as widespread and expected as it is these days. Without any data to support it, I'd assert that the vast majority of players of vanilla UO/EQ/AC were playing the game blind, or at least it certainly felt that way at the time. There were surely some players who were crunching these numbers, but there wasn't the same sort of assumed "everyone must play exactly this build because a computer decided it was optimal DPS" groupthink prevailing across the majority of the playerbase like there is today.
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Sep 19, 2023 16:12
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MMOs should do what Nintendo did to Smash Bros to spite people who took the game seriously: institute tripping. Every time you do things there's a small % chance to fall flat on your face like a total idiot
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Sep 19, 2023 16:23
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kedo posted:Agreed, but the difference is that knowledge of these things wasn't as widespread and expected as it is these days. Without any data to support it, I'd assert that the vast majority of players of vanilla UO/EQ/AC were playing the game blind, or at least it certainly felt that way at the time. There were surely some players who were crunching these numbers, but there wasn't the same sort of assumed "everyone must play exactly this build because a computer decided it was optimal DPS" groupthink prevailing across the majority of the playerbase like there is today. Yeah exactly. There were always people and communities that knew the optimal stuff but information like that was like...really behind closed doors. Either intentionally (vanilla wow raid strats) or just due to there not being centralized locations to find this stuff.
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Sep 19, 2023 16:43
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jokes posted:MMOs should do what Nintendo did to Smash Bros to spite people who took the game seriously: institute tripping. Every time you do things there's a small % chance to fall flat on your face like a total idiot
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Sep 19, 2023 17:23
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There's a reason that Smash 4 and Ultimate don't feature tripping despite still focusing on the casuals.
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Sep 19, 2023 18:42
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Hellioning posted:There's a reason that Smash 4 and Ultimate don't feature tripping despite still focusing on the casuals. is it esports
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Sep 19, 2023 19:27
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Making your game poo poo on purpose to spite a subset of your playerbase turned out to be a really stupid idea. See, also: Wildstar
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Sep 19, 2023 19:29
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No Dignity posted:Making your game poo poo on purpose to spite a subset of your playerbase turned out to be a really stupid idea. See, also: MMOs are very guilty of doing this. PvP in WoW, for example, is all designed to let the people who have done it a lot be rewarded at the expense of the people who have not done it a lot.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:44
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jokes posted:MMOs are very guilty of doing this. PvP in WoW, for example, is all designed to let the people who have done it a lot be rewarded at the expense of the people who have not done it a lot. Uh huh... go on? lmfao
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Sep 19, 2023 19:46
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Someone who has done something a lot is rewarded for it? You don't say....
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Sep 19, 2023 19:46
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PvP is very much a winner or loser thing and in MMOs that allow gear progression it's almost entirely a measure of time/money spent playing PvP over anything else. Some people, flat out, have played/paid enough that they are totally unassailable by someone who just started out-- as a purely mathematical thing. I'm not going to play PvP where I have a 0% chance of being able to defeat people and then once I've lost enough I can get enough pity tokens to be able to sort-of start to compete. That's just like gachas where they develop an entire system where you're mostly trying to get new people to serve as fodder for other peoples' weird power fantasy so that the people who care the most spend/play more. MMOs just need totally flattened pvp gear/stats. jokes fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 19:49
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jokes posted:PvP is very much a winner or loser thing and in MMOs that allow gear progression it's almost entirely a measure of time/money spent playing PvP over anything else. Some people, flat out, have played/paid enough that they are totally unassailable by someone who just started out-- as a purely mathematical thing. you are talking about arenas, and the more you play, the better arena gear you get, which is how you face people equal to your score. For PVP battlegrounds, none of that poo poo matters, at all. Knowledge of the modes and gametypes which get you much, much further.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:57
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I mean that's something that is a problem with every MMO with PvP, where playing PVP means being entirely at the mercy of a match system deciding whether you're facing people that are objectively stronger or weaker than you. It's telling that in WoW there's a whole system for having a character stall out at level 19 or whatever. But of course the only other options is to have PvP be restricted to only the best people, like how New World did it, or have the gear you brought in not matter at all in which case you would probably be better served just playing DOTA.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:58
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It's a nonissue in basically any other competitive scenario. You don't get pasted by some Ryu main with 500 hours because he has twice the health you do and his fireball one shots you. He wins because that time investment translated into improvement, but a skilled rookie or a new account can still win. WoW PVP forces the time investment as heavily as the skill which is lovely.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:02
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's a nonissue in basically any other competitive scenario. You don't get pasted by some Ryu main with 500 hours because he has twice the health you do and his fireball one shots you. He wins because that time investment translated into improvement, but a skilled rookie or a new account can still win. The more you play something the better you will get, it doesn't mean you are going to be in the top tier though. I have 6000+ hours in DOTA2 and I'm still above average lol. MMOs and PVP, if done well, will always be the same way. Skill and knowledge of skills when to do X, when to do Y, will always matter more than just gear.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:05
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That Little Demon posted:you are talking about arenas, and the more you play, the better arena gear you get, which is how you face people equal to your score. For PVP battlegrounds, none of that poo poo matters, at all. Knowledge of the modes and gametypes which get you much, much further. No, there's PvP ilvl and it matters in battlegrounds. Unless you're trying to say none of that poo poo matters because knowing to fight on a point is more important than ilvl or something stupid like that
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Sep 19, 2023 20:07
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That Little Demon posted:The more you play something the better you will get, it doesn't mean you are going to be in the top tier though. I have 6000+ hours in DOTA2 and I'm still above average lol. MMOs and PVP, if done well, will always be the same way. Skill and knowledge of skills when to do X, when to do Y, will always matter more than just gear. the problem is gear affecting stats in pvp instead of being standardized in guild wars 2 they have two pvp systems one where gear is not standardized one where it is one of these is way more balanced
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Sep 19, 2023 20:08
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Yeah, time translates to skill. That's not the issue of contention. It's that in WoW there are tangible, statistical rewards that also influence the balance. A better player with less time invested can feasibly and likely lose to a worse player with more time because the worse player has better gear. That's not an issue in DOTA. Everyone starts each match from a level playing field.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:08
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That Little Demon posted:The more you play something the better you will get, it doesn't mean you are going to be in the top tier though. I have 6000+ hours in DOTA2 and I'm still above average lol. MMOs and PVP, if done well, will always be the same way. Skill and knowledge of skills when to do X, when to do Y, will always matter more than just gear. That's not really the point though, it's lame not because you have to put time into getting good but because you physically could not do more damage than the other person. You can outplay someone all day but if they have better gear than you then you're still going to lose 99 times out of 100. It'd be like if DOTA2 had a system where everything else was equal but the more hours you have in the game the more gold you start with.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:09
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The last time I played in Dragonflight, I actually really liked BG PvP while leveling. The moment I hit max level though the shift was so extreme that it made me not want to PvP again. This was purely due to gearing. A shaman with 120k HP vs. you with 30k means you have no shot in killing them. In Counterstrike, your opponent may be a pro at the game and you have very little chance at a 1v1, but if they have their back turned, you at least have a shot. The Shaman just laughs while their HoTs heal him back to full while you struggle to deal any damage to them. This has always been a problem in WoW PvP. I remember walking into BGs with raid level gear as a Warrior and 1-shotting the poor Priest that had greens on.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:17
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It's also a problem with a solution that will not be solved by Blizzard because they explicitly walked back a flattened ilvl system in favor of a gear progression/ilvl system. Why? The same thing that created and destroyed Wildstar: screaming players.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:18
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Let us be real. Wildstar died because of devs.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:20
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jokes posted:It's also a problem with a solution that will not be solved by Blizzard because they explicitly walked back a flattened ilvl system in favor of a gear progression/ilvl system. Why? The same thing that created and destroyed Wildstar: screaming players. This is weird because BGs in WoW would be so cool with a DoTA style system where everyone zoned in with the same ilevel, and you slowly geared up within the map you were on. You could still live out your power fantasy of stomping the bad players, but at least the opposing team would be on even ground at the start. Too bad Blizzard doesn't have any experience in making MOBA games that they could have pulled ideas from....
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Sep 19, 2023 20:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-NFg8_irL4&t=305s
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Sep 19, 2023 20:26
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Cardboard Fox posted:This is weird because BGs in WoW would be so cool with a DoTA style system where everyone zoned in with the same ilevel, and you slowly geared up within the map you were on. You could still live out your power fantasy of stomping the bad players, but at least the opposing team would be on even ground at the start. It's not about stomping bad players though, it's about being so much more overwhelmingly strong that you can just delete them. People don't go into MMO PvP looking for a fair fight. Remember the three G's: gear, group, gank. Flattening ilevels can help but it's certainly not the end all. I remember playing a mmo that did that and then went "well it's a flat playing field so level 19s can match with 99s with no problem". Except the higher level character have all their abilities unlocked and often have trinkets that can't be flattened and still make vast differences in fights.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:27
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:43 |
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Cardboard Fox posted:This is weird because BGs in WoW would be so cool with a DoTA style system where everyone zoned in with the same ilevel, and you slowly geared up within the map you were on. You could still live out your power fantasy of stomping the bad players, but at least the opposing team would be on even ground at the start. If they did this, the official forums would be absolutely screaming that all of their hard-earned PvP clout has been ruined and that once again Blizzard caters to the casual player and turns their back on their core players. It also wouldn't work in balancing the field because of addons.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:27
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