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DELETE CASCADE posted:you are missing the best part which is how they actually accomplish this. what defines the inside of your home? why, the walls that enclose it, of course. so if the neighborhood were walled, you could consider it as one large home. now that neighborhood wall, surely it would need at least one gate, so that people can enter and leave. well, what if we made the entire wall out of gates? that is, we will string up a high wire on poles so that it encloses the neighborhood. the poles are the only "wall" parts of the wall. everywhere else is a gate. mission accomplished And there's no reason why a neighborhood can't be a significant chunk of Manhattan. e: Products that are kosher only without a heksher is the all-time classic. ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 18:54
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Kazinsal posted:can't do work on the sabbath, and actuating electrical switches counts as work, so you can't press elevator buttons. or you can get yourself a shabbas goy and make them do everything
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Sep 19, 2023 19:00
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DELETE CASCADE posted:you are missing the best part which is how they actually accomplish this. what defines the inside of your home? why, the walls that enclose it, of course. so if the neighborhood were walled, you could consider it as one large home. now that neighborhood wall, surely it would need at least one gate, so that people can enter and leave. well, what if we made the entire wall out of gates? that is, we will string up a high wire on poles so that it encloses the neighborhood. the poles are the only "wall" parts of the wall. everywhere else is a gate. mission accomplished i'd send them to hell if they tried this at me
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Sep 19, 2023 19:01
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DELETE CASCADE posted:you are missing the best part which is how they actually accomplish this. what defines the inside of your home? why, the walls that enclose it, of course. so if the neighborhood were walled, you could consider it as one large home. now that neighborhood wall, surely it would need at least one gate, so that people can enter and leave. well, what if we made the entire wall out of gates? that is, we will string up a high wire on poles so that it encloses the neighborhood. the poles are the only "wall" parts of the wall. everywhere else is a gate. mission accomplished i simply don't practice judaism
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Sep 19, 2023 19:05
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ultrafilter posted:e: Products that are kosher only without a heksher is the all-time classic. I have trouble understanding this, I don't know all those Jewish specific terms.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:54
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I wasn't expecting today to involve looking up whether walking past a motion-activated light counts as "work" for Shabbat purposes, but here we are. (It seems that not all the authorities agree on the answer to this one, but the general gist seems to be "try to avoid triggering them if you can, but you're probably okay if you just do so incidentally while walking past.")
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Sep 19, 2023 20:02
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prefect posted:or you can get yourself a shabbas goy and make them do everything these are also interesting, because you can't ask them to do things. you have to either give them a list in advance, or suggest that it would be nice if things were done without actually instructing them to do it.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:23
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Sweevo posted:these are also interesting, because you can't ask them to do things. you have to either give them a list in advance, or suggest that it would be nice if things were done without actually instructing them to do it. Now I'm just imagining spending every sabbath acting like a mob boss making veiled threats as I pointedly stare at them. "Sure would be a shame if someone was eternally damned to sheol for pushin' this elevator button, a real shame"
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Sep 19, 2023 20:32
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hiring a goy to blow weed smoke into your lungs
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Sep 19, 2023 20:42
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George posted:hiring a goy to blow weed smoke into your lungs great, now I’m going to have the phrase “shabbos bong goy” stuck in my head for the rest of the day
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Sep 19, 2023 20:53
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Sep 19, 2023 22:38
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By the way I found out today that the larger Amsterdam area has one of the largest Eruvs in the world, constructed in 2008 or so. The circumference is about 75 km. Jewish religious experts have confirmed it fully adheres to the rules: - Most of the wall are just waterways. These count because (1) you can't cross water on foot and (2) it is written that when Moses split the sea, the water to the left and right was a wall. This does mean that the Eruv is broken if any of the rivers freeze over, which does happen occassionally. - No special treatment is needed for bridges that can be opened. Since they can be opened they don't make for a permanent gap in the wall. - Similarly, for unmoveable bridges, what they did is put some boxes to the side of them containing a wire fence they can roll out to close the bridge to anyone wanting to cross. They never actually use those fences, but having the options of using them and closing that part of the wall makes it count. - There's one bridge in the south where they actually placed a couple of poles and strung a wire between them because that bridge is the gate of the "house". - There is a rule saying that you need to be able to see the whole eruv if you stand on a tall place in the center. Well, from the center point it's about 15 km to the furthest parts, which according to the experts is just within the rules. - The eruv is about being allowed to carry. There is another rule saying you can't walk furthern than 960 meters from a built-up area. Well, the chunk between Amstelveen and Uithoorn is not built-up at all. If it is too big, it would mean you can carry in that area, but not walk. Well, they measured the exact distance of the southermost house of Amstelveen to the northernmost house of Uithoorn and it worked out almost exactly to the meter. - They paid a symbolic amount to the mayor of Amsterdam to "rent" the house. So yes, it checks all the boxes. Practically they chose this area because most jews live there and because most synagoges are within the limits.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:48
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Sweevo posted:these are also interesting, because you can't ask them to do things. you have to either give them a list in advance, or suggest that it would be nice if things were done without actually instructing them to do it. (sitting on the front stoop as people walk by) "boy, it sure is dark in my house. reeeeaal dark. no lights on at all." DELETE CASCADE posted:god loves it when you rules-lawyer him like this. but what if some rear end in a top hat gets up on a ladder and cuts the wire? now the wall is broken, and you are violating god's law. so you better believe they check before each sabbath! there is a website you can check to see if the san francisco eruv is up in real-time. i'm sure all other large orthodox communities have the same. of course, the eruv is just a convenience, not a barrier. you can pass through it on shabbos. you just can't carry any objects across the line, as carrying objects between public and private domains is considered work. "objects" doesn't include your clothing, but it does include pretty much anything else, including your house keys. so what if you have to leave the eruv on shabbos (or are an observant jew but don't live in a place with an eruv) and you haven't got anyone staying home to watch the house?? why, just get yourself a key belt! you hook the key(s) into the open links, making the keys an integral part of the belt and the whole construction an article of clothing. no longer are you carrying any objects -- you're just wearing a belt. good to go! 
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 23:03
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100% eternal damnation material
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Sep 19, 2023 23:18
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if you try to be a rules lawyer on the forums you get banned and god is the most despotic mod of all
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Sep 19, 2023 23:19
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that's the whole point of the eruv -- to extend the private domain to include anything you could reasonably need on shabbos the bits about bridges/walls in carbon's post is interesting though. i thought most eruvs in western cities were just a simple wire running lamp post to lamp post
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Sep 19, 2023 23:21
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Carbon dioxide posted:I have trouble understanding this, I don't know all those Jewish specific terms. summary: the rule against eating non-kosher (treif) food has some exceptions. one is the case in which you weren't aware that the food was treif, and the non-kosher part of it is "imperceptible." this means that e.g. if you eat dinner at a new friend's house and they forgot to tell you that they used some bacon grease to sauté the onions for the soup, you haven't done anything wrong. "imperceptible" can be defined qualitatively by a rabbi or judge, or quantitatively as less than 1/60 part of the whole. obviously the point of this is accidental consumption. you can't intentionally use this rule to eat treif food; carefully measuring out and blending 1/61st part bacon into your own soup is not allowed. the specific situation discussed on that page is a case where a dairy started fortifying their milk with vitamin d using shark oil, a treif food (since sharks have skin and not scales). the oil was imperceptible by volume and by taste, but the dairy lost their kosher certification as a result. the milk was still considered kosher, like any other product that incidentally has a tiny amount of imperceptible treif ingredients. however, this hinged on the fact that the dairy did not seek to renew their certification! by making the product for general consumption, without any special consideration of jewish dietary law, no jew could be expected to think that the milk was specifically guaranteed kosher -- and no person would normally think that milk would contain shark oil. thus it would be "just milk," a kosher food, and the imperceptible treif ingredients would not be an issue. (at least until one was made aware of their inclusion; then presumably pne would be expected to stop drinking it). but if the dairy had tried to renew their certification, hinging it specifically on the idea that the milk was still kosher through imperceptibility, then it would be the same as blending in the bacon. you know it's wrong, you know your market wouldn't drink the shark oil on purpose, so that rule can no longer apply, and the milk becomes treif. 
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 23:45
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goblin week posted:i'd send them to hell if they tried this at me jews don't really believe in hell. there is some discussion of the afterlife in jewish mysticism, but none of the fire and brimstone eternal torture stuff. then again, you don't get 72 virgins in heaven either. the reward for doing a mitzvah is... getting to do the mitzvah. you follow the jewish laws because you're a jew, and that's what jews do
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Sep 20, 2023 00:17
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the ancient jewish conception of the afterlife was called sheol, and to the extent that it’s described at all it’s just endless darkness and stillness. it’s neither reward nor punishment, just nothingness I learned about this from noted talmudic scholarly tome the binding of isaac
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Sep 20, 2023 01:43
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It's not an Eruv, but I recall seeing an Orthodox Jewish woman in some video stating that they can't show their hair after marrying, so instead she bought a wig looking a lot like her hair and wear that, and that's okay. Like that's magnificent rule-lawyering.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:11
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if I was a god I would simply not have any loopholes in my religion
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Sep 20, 2023 02:43
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could God create a dogma so airtight that even He could not find a loophole?
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Sep 20, 2023 02:45
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could god take a poo poo so foul that even he wouldn't use the bathroom for like half an hour after
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Sep 20, 2023 02:53
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i would simply smite anyone that tried to rules lawyer me
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Sep 20, 2023 03:03
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Sep 20, 2023 03:58
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Sagebrush posted:(sitting on the front stoop as people walk by) "boy, it sure is dark in my house. reeeeaal dark. no lights on at all." Has anybody heard of the theory that Jeroboam was making an eruv-like symbolic operation with the calves at the borders of the kingdom? ultrafilter posted:And there's no reason why a neighborhood can't be a significant chunk of Manhattan. That IS an all-timer! Mescal fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 04:49
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the eruv in vancouver is particularly clever because it uses the ground wires of the electric trolleybus lines as part of its construction
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Sep 20, 2023 05:32
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goblin week posted:if you try to be a rules lawyer on the forums you get banned and god is the most despotic mod of all echinopsis posted:if I was a god I would simply not have any loopholes in my religion Beeftweeter posted:i would simply smite anyone that tried to rules lawyer me do you really suppose that they didn't think of this? you see, according to the torah, we humans were made in god's image. even the text shows it: god is like us, he has similar mischievous impulses. he gave us laws to follow, but he also gave us this big brain, and it pleases him to see us use it well that's right: they rules-lawyered rules-lawyering
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Sep 20, 2023 05:58
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echinopsis posted:if I was a god I would simply not have any loopholes in my religion last time He showed up to tell people to knock it off with the rules lawyering most of them ended up doubling down on it soooooooo
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Sep 20, 2023 07:42
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i think the brooklyn one is even bigger than manhattan
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Sep 20, 2023 09:08
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nudgenudgetilt posted:i think the brooklyn one is even bigger than manhattan looks like a santa-themed mecha
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Sep 20, 2023 09:18
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why not construct an eruv like the asylum in So Long and Thanks foor All the Fish? an inside out house in the desert somewhere. now the whole world is inside the eruv.
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Sep 20, 2023 09:57
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George posted:could god take a poo poo so foul that even he wouldn't use the bathroom for like half an hour after lol
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Sep 20, 2023 11:21
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axolotl farmer posted:why not construct an eruv like the asylum in So Long and Thanks foor All the Fish? an inside out house in the desert somewhere. now the whole world is inside the eruv. I was gonna say, one of the rules is you have to be able to see the entire eruv from a raised point in the middle. But maybe they could get away with that by having the raised point be a space station? Although it's a bit hard to see the far side of the earth from there. Hmmm.
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Sep 20, 2023 11:40
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put an eruv around the equator and then you'll be able to see it from the moon given a long enough time
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Sep 20, 2023 11:41
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George posted:could god take a poo poo so foul that even he wouldn't use the bathroom for like half an hour after He's already created your posting.
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Sep 20, 2023 12:01
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Sagebrush posted:(at least until one was made aware of their inclusion; then presumably pne would be expected to stop drinking it). That's what I would think, but the author mentions that they drank a glass of the milk after becoming aware of the shark oil in it. Is there some kind of rabbinic exception at play here?
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Sep 20, 2023 14:12
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Sep 20, 2023 14:35
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According to Eustathius, Tiresias was originally a woman who promised Apollo her favours in exchange for musical lessons, only to reject him afterwards. She was turned by Apollo into a man, then again a woman under unclear circumstances, then a man by the offended Hera, then into a woman by Zeus. She becomes a man once again after an encounter with the Muses, until finally Aphrodite turns him into a woman again and then into a mouse.[9]
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Sep 20, 2023 16:10
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ah, the elusive third gender
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Sep 20, 2023 16:45
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