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Detective No. 27 posted:Trank, Treverow, Jenkins and soon... Also the Game of Thrones guys!
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Sep 19, 2023 04:01
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JJ Abrams did Star Trek Into Darkness right before starting on The Force Awakens.
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Sep 19, 2023 04:11
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Robot Style posted:JJ Abrams did Star Trek Into Darkness right before starting on The Force Awakens. Imagine seeing Into Darkness and thinking, "Man, this guy should do Star Wars!"
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Sep 19, 2023 04:19
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Bogus Adventure posted:Imagine seeing Into Darkness and thinking, "Man, this guy should do Star Wars!" Into Darkness is a better star wars than his star wars. Kirk and Spock even spend the beginning of the movie in Star wars imperial officers uniforms.
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Sep 19, 2023 04:24
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Bogus Adventure posted:Imagine seeing Into Darkness and thinking, "Man, this guy should do Star Wars!" How could you not. Theres so much Star Wars in that movie it might as well be one
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Sep 19, 2023 04:40
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FunkyAl posted:Into Darkness is a better star wars than his star wars. Kirk and Spock even spend the beginning of the movie in Star wars imperial officers uniforms. CelticPredator posted:How could you not. Theres so much Star Wars in that movie it might as well be one It's a lovely mess of a movie that tells you exactly how it is going to resolve any conflict the heroes endure within the first 10 minutes of the film.
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Sep 19, 2023 07:23
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Yeah it’s bad but it’s also very very Star Wars
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Sep 19, 2023 07:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfqGAsaEtxI
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Sep 19, 2023 07:37
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Nah, it's worse. It's like the loving Wing Commander of Star Trek movies.
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Sep 19, 2023 08:09
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Bogus Adventure posted:It's a lovely mess of a movie that tells you exactly how it is going to resolve any conflict the heroes endure within the first 10 minutes of the film. It has its flaws, but I think it's an okay piece about the prime directive and the damaging effects of spock's future technology from the last one. The scene at the beginning with the tribesmen and the volcano is an interesting juxtaposition to the scene of destruction at the end. I also think it's Riffing 2001 a little bit, but is arguing that brute emotion is a more powerful force than technology.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:SMG Top 10 Better Endings to Star Wars Episodes 7-9: ngl now I kinda want to see Dex Wickster
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Sep 19, 2023 22:37
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FunkyAl posted:It has its flaws, but I think it's an okay piece about the prime directive and the damaging effects of spock's future technology from the last one. The scene at the beginning with the tribesmen and the volcano is an interesting juxtaposition to the scene of destruction at the end. I also think it's Riffing 2001 a little bit, but is arguing that brute emotion is a more powerful force than technology. I'm just tired of people making the Federation, which is meant to be a positive vision of humanity's future, being upheld by secret gestapo forces. It was also written by a 9/11 truther, and the entire movie is riddled with that viewpoint.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:59
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Bogus Adventure posted:Nah, it's worse. It's like the loving Wing Commander of Star Trek movies. i'm pretty sure they took a bunch from wing commander iv, it was odd to see so much in common between the two
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Sep 19, 2023 23:00
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Bogus Adventure posted:I'm just tired of people making the Federation, which is meant to be a positive vision of humanity's future, being upheld by secret gestapo forces. It was also written by a 9/11 truther, and the entire movie is riddled with that viewpoint. That element of the storytelling already existed in Trek and it's Into Darkness that makes that element explicitly villainous. If anything you should be against most of the "best of Trek" and enjoy ID? Like, doing a false flag wag the dog thing was a pivotal moment for the "good side" in Deep Space Nine.
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Sep 19, 2023 23:09
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Bogus Adventure posted:I'm just tired of people making the Federation, which is meant to be a positive vision of humanity's future, being upheld by secret gestapo forces. Let me tell you about a little something called Paperclip...
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Sep 20, 2023 00:04
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Star Trek is a lie.
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Sep 20, 2023 00:08
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:That element of the storytelling already existed in Trek and it's Into Darkness that makes that element explicitly villainous. If anything you should be against most of the "best of Trek" and enjoy ID? This is why DS9 is not the best of Trek. It's TOS and TNG Season 1. Don't @ me, you haters, S1 gave us Q and Ugly Bags of Mostly Water. 
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Sep 20, 2023 00:23
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The first season of TNG is so accidentally racist it would make the trade federation aliens blush
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Sep 20, 2023 00:29
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We could say that of a lot of media made at the time. Encounter at Farpoint still stands the test of time, and if you can't appreciate Home Soil, Heart of Glory, Skin of Evil, Lonely Among Us, or Conspiracy then I pity you. Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 00:44
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Wolfsheim posted:The first season of TNG is so accidentally racist it would make the trade federation aliens blush You mean to tell me the Nimoydians of the Federation might have opinions on Star Trek?
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Sep 20, 2023 00:51
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Don't get the Shatnerians started
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Sep 20, 2023 00:55
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The Trade Federation is full of Star Trek references.
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Sep 20, 2023 01:52
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Bogus Adventure posted:We could say that of a lot of media made at the time. I don't remember enough about ST to know most episode names but my favorite TNG episode is the one where they become trapped in a seedy mob casino based on a bad paperback novel and Data has to count cards so they can escape but I think that's season two or three
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Sep 20, 2023 03:49
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Wolfsheim posted:I don't remember enough about ST to know most episode names but my favorite TNG episode is the one where they become trapped in a seedy mob casino based on a bad paperback novel and Data has to count cards so they can escape but I think that's season two or three That's The Royale, S2 E12. I thought you were talking about The Big Goodbye at first (a Dixon Hill episode), which was S1 E12. I guess they were running on a theme. To put it in context, I grew up watching TOS reruns as a toddler and TNG came out when I was 4 years old. I loved how S1 was like TOS because it still had TOS writers like DC Fontana and David Gerrold, and you had more of an emphasis on soft sci-fi where you could have weird stuff based more on space magic than Pillar-patter technobabble. Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 05:36
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And I should probably caveat that I enjoy most of TNG. Later seasons felt kind of lifeless compared to the first few seasons. You also got the goriest stuff in the earlier seasons.     
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Sep 20, 2023 05:57
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Bogus Adventure posted:This is why DS9 is not the best of Trek. That's interesting, because the narrative of Into Darkness agrees with you.
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Sep 20, 2023 06:00
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Shut up about star trek and go watch the first good episode of Ahsoka that just came out
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Sep 20, 2023 06:11
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banned from Starbucks posted:Shut up about star trek and go watch the first good episode of Ahsoka that just came out The first good episode was Episode 5. Episode 6 is not quite as good (the writing is rear end), but it's a fun tribute to 80s fantasy.
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Sep 20, 2023 06:15
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:That's interesting, because the narrative of Into Darkness agrees with you. I can see how you can argue that Star Trek Into Darkness is seen as a rejection of entities like Section 31 and Starfleet warhawks. My issue with the movies and TV shows that embrace those plots is that they imagine the Federation needing those institutions to be created or exist. Sloan worked best in DS9 when it was left ambiguous whether he was simply a crazed extremist or an actual member of the Federation's secret police. When Enterprise, Into Darkness, and Discovery leaned into it, I rolled my eyes and stepped away from Star Trek. Starfleet and the UFP represented an optimistic view of humanity's future, one where we may have hit rock bottom (WWIII and the Eugenics War) but managed to pull ourselves out of it and rise above racism, bigotry, capitalism, greed, and apathy. It was rare among science fiction, which often leans into dystopian visions. In Star Trek, humanity was still imperfect (conflict with the Klingons, random Captains and Admirals going insane from the stress of a "Risk is our business!" career, etc.), but had the capacity to learn from flaws and overcome. If Into Darkness was purely a movie rejecting Section 31 or upholding the Federation using space gestapo and secret war machines, I'd be fine with it. However, it also managed to poorly jam Khan into the film, have zero idea on how to establish why Khan should be considered Very Bad, and manages to give away it's "twist" within the first few minutes of the film. If the mysterious guy is using his blood to save a sick person in the beginning of the film, it's not that large a leap of logic to conclude that this will be important for overcoming an obstacle in the future. There is a ton of backstory into why Khan is bad and not someone who can easily be redeemed (former tyrant, war criminal, genetically-engineered superhuman with a superiority complex) that the movie simply decides to ignore. Instead, it's more important to show Kirk getting it on with a couple of Caitian twins. Adding that might have made Kirk's decision to betray Khan look a bit more justified, but lacking that context just makes the genetic super tyrant a more sympathetic character. It's that combination of a jumbled mess of a story that tries to ape a better movie that has already been remade in the same franchise (Nemesis, and I'd even argue First Contact) which makes me hate Into Darkness. It's also a very ugly movie which does its best keep the audience from seeing its settings or special effects. banned from Starbucks posted:Shut up about star trek and go watch the first good episode of Ahsoka that just came out 
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Sep 20, 2023 06:29
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Bogus Adventure posted:I'm just tired of people making the Federation, which is meant to be a positive vision of humanity's future, being upheld by secret gestapo forces. It was also written by a 9/11 truther, and the entire movie is riddled with that viewpoint. and one osha as gently caress mining ship, no handrails, wet, poor lighting, and yet a major threat
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Sep 20, 2023 06:49
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Upsidads posted:and one osha as gently caress mining ship, no handrails, wet, poor lighting, and yet a major threat They really shoulda left in the whole thing in the background that it was made using Borg technology and was originally a way more normal Romulan vessel.
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Sep 20, 2023 06:53
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Bogus Adventure posted:...lacking that context just makes the genetic super tyrant a more sympathetic character. You've misread ID in the same way that most average Trek fans have, but the quote above gives me hope. You're actually very close to a more accurate understanding of the film. I'll spoil the realization you're approaching: ID Khan is sympathetic, and moreover is one of the heroes of the movie, not a villain at all. His motivations and his patterns of behavior are the same as Kirk's, from beginning to end. Every mediocre ID critic claims that ID is trying to remake, rip off, or re-do Wrath of Khan - yet the warp core scene is the only time ID actually does this, and it's a deliberate homage. The rest of the film is original, and is about how the desire for vengeance makes moral people into amoral monsters. I think ID is the best Trek movie of the current millennium so far, and maybe the best film JJ Abrams had a hand in - after all, there are no lingering "mysteries" without answers at the end. No Maz Kanata mysteries for another time, no smoke monsters, just a story with a theme and a sensible conclusion.
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Sep 20, 2023 07:09
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Tequila Bob posted:You've misread ID in the same way that most average Trek fans have, but the quote above gives me hope. You're actually very close to a more accurate understanding of the film. Do "a terrorism" or "bomb civilians" is not the Star Trek way of solving problems (something that Star Trek VI explicitly argues against). It's the Star Wars way, so maybe the only good to come out of Into Darkness is that it let Beyond (a flawed, but much more Star Trek-y film) be made. So what's up with Andor or Ahsoka? Is the former shooting up markets full of bystanders? Is the latter still running missiles through space pirates in a cartoony Iran-Contra way?
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Sep 20, 2023 07:25
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Star Wars is an optimistic view of humanity's future
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Sep 20, 2023 07:52
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Bogus Adventure posted:Do "a terrorism" or "bomb civilians" is not the Star Trek way of solving problems Right, it's the "let's take vengeance" way of solving problems, and like Star Trek VI, ID is definitely saying we shouldn't do it. Notably, ID launched at a time when society loved revenge fantasies - both Batman and Superman had killed on screen, recently, and the show 24 was being cited as proof that torture was acceptable. When Khan blows up the archives (including its Section 31 division), the officers' meeting (also targeting Section 31 personnel), or San Francisco (home of the Federation and Section 31) it's fueled by revenge - each time, it's because he thinks (incorrectly) that his crew has been killed. Similarly, Kirk just about starts a war by firing torpedoes at QoNos, driven by revenge over the death of Pike. I love the scene where Scotty calls out Kirk early on for exactly this reason - it's what the movie is all about. (Did you really think ID was actually arguing in favor of this sort of thing? There's no way you mis-watched it that badly.) Every time Khan learns that his crew is safe, he becomes 100% cooperative with the Enterprise crew. It's the desire for vengeance that corrupts him, and Kirk, and Spock, at various points in the movie, and drives them to become killers.
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Sep 20, 2023 07:53
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Kinda funny if Into Darkness ends up aging the best of the NuTrek movies. For a 9/11 truther movie it arguably has a pretty on the point message- the Federation didn't call a false flag on itself, it suffered a genuine terrorist attack from a terrorist they armed and trained, which is uh, kinda just the actual thing that happened IRL officially. The entire premise is the Section 31 poo poo all backfiring in the worst ways- just like it did in DS9- because none of that poo poo actually helps, the Federation is the Federation because it actually makes a point to practice what it preaches and act in good faith.
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Sep 20, 2023 08:00
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Arguing the details aside, Into Darkness was a commercial, critical, and general audience popular success, still the biggest big office success that franchise has had to date. So it really isn't comparable to those other directors whose SW gigs have fallen through where they got signed up off the back of the major success then promptly scared Disney off by delivering a stinkbomb or tanking their reputation
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Sep 20, 2023 08:09
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kinda funny if Into Darkness ends up aging the best of the NuTrek movies. ST09 definitely aged like crud. It wowed us all at first, but then there's a lot of flaws that become apparent with hindsight or repeated viewings. Same as The Force Awakens, really. Remember the scene where new hero (Pine-Kirk) is marooned, then in an astronomical coincidence meets a mentor from the earlier iterations of the series (Nimoy-Spock)? It's a huge coincidence, and JJ distracts us from thinking about it via giant monsters and Simon Pegg. Now recall how Rey met Han Solo. Marooned, astronomical coincidence, monsters, Pegg. Utter hackery.
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Sep 20, 2023 08:16
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I'm beginning to think this Abrams guy might be something of a hack!
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Sep 20, 2023 08:25
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| # ? May 25, 2024 19:42 |
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Both recent trek & wars are perfect examples of how creator-fans are usually too "close" to the material to really evaluate narrative strengths/weaknesses. In theory who would know a given thing better than it's fanatics? - but it seems to rarely end with good results. Abrams did such a solid job with the trek reboot movies precisely because he wasn't a trekkie growing up. He (in)famously said he respected the shows but wasn't overly familiar with them, like a fan would be. Simon Pegg on the other hand was vocally a trekkie, and Beyond, which he had the greatest involvement with, is the easily weakest one. It's like the Simpsons being written by people who grew up wanting to be Simpsons writers!
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Sep 20, 2023 08:32
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