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The Grapist posted:What mouthpiece are you currently using? Changing that will have a profound effect on your sound and playing. the cheap one that came with a refurbed YS-21, and that was next on my mind to upgrade, certainly before looking at bigger horns. Can you make a solid recommendation for an alto mouthpiece for someone who has been back into this for ~2 months? I certainly don't mind spending up to a hundred bucks or so; less is better, more is possible, but would sort of like to do this once only for this alto, so I'd err on something slightly nicer than not, probably.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:46
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Cabbages and Kings posted:the cheap one that came with a refurbed YS-21, and that was next on my mind to upgrade, certainly before looking at bigger horns. Can you make a solid recommendation for an alto mouthpiece for someone who has been back into this for ~2 months? I certainly don't mind spending up to a hundred bucks or so; less is better, more is possible, but would sort of like to do this once only for this alto, so I'd err on something slightly nicer than not, probably. If the one that came with your Yamaha is a Yamaha 4C, you should probably stay with that for a while longer. The standard "I want to play jazz but also cheap" would be a new Otto Link or Meyer. Vandoren Java is also a popular one in that price range.
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Aug 18, 2023 23:16
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if it is, it's old enough that all the Yamaha markings have rubbed off and it's a bit dinged up; it might also be a total no name that got tossed in somewhere along the way. I might gravitate towards vandoren if I upgrade just because I like their reeds  thanks
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Aug 19, 2023 03:21
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Anybody have a recommendation for pro-level flugels to watch for on the used market? I have a Bb, C, and picc, and I'm getting back into practice, but I never actually got myself a flugel despite liking to play it a lot back in school.
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Aug 19, 2023 03:23
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Ohtori Akio posted:Anybody have a recommendation for pro-level flugels to watch for on the used market? I have a Bb, C, and picc, and I'm getting back into practice, but I never actually got myself a flugel despite liking to play it a lot back in school. Any particular bore size you're looking for? Or I guess a better question would be, what bore size(s) are the horns you have now, or that you're most used to playing on? Yamaha is usually a pretty safe bet for a good pro-level horn, although their flug selection isn't exactly huge. Your most budget-friendly option from them would most likely be a YFH-631G. If you want a smaller bore than .433" then you'd be looking at one of the Custom models, but those are probably gonna cost a bit more. https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/flugelhorns/index.html I'm not as well-versed in flugs as I am in trumpets, but I'd be more than happy to do a bit more research for you if there are any particular specs you're after. 
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Aug 19, 2023 08:14
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My Bb and C are standard ML bore, a YTR-8335RG and a Strad respectively. I guess I could use a little more resistance. Really I could adapt to the right horn's bore.
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Aug 19, 2023 08:20
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Wow do I have a lot to learn about mouthpieces! A whole world I never knew anything about when I fumbled through this in gradeschool. I am pretty sure the mouthpiece that shipped with this isn't a 4c, and is some random no-name; the ligature looks very generic and says "USA" on it. So, it's possible a relatively inexpensive 4c would actually be an upgrade but I've also been reading about loud mouthpieces (don't want), quiet mouthpieces (D'Addario Select Jazz comes up a bunch), etc. I also don't want to go too crazy because this is just a student alto and I don't, at present, envision owning a nicer alto, though we'll see where life takes me. edit: I went ahead and ordered an actual Yamaha 5c, after looking at a lot of pictures of current and vintage yamaha mouthpieces, and reading a bunch about 4c vs 5c. This horn was refurbished by some place out of Florida, pearls were replaced with neoprene in some cases, and I do not have any confidence that this isn't some extremely cheap $10 mouthpiece so it seems reasonable to me to get the basic Yamaha as a starting point. If it seems to play exactly the same it's returnable, lol. The Grapist posted:I’ll get some pictures this afternoon. Not as clean as those two, but not major dings or dents. The YTS-62 I have for $2600 is in similar shape to the two you listed. I am not in a position to pull the trigger right now; realistically I should be thinking of a tenor as a christmas present to myself if I am diligent about saving in the mean time. You seem to be well connected and know your poo poo though so if you don't mind I am going to hold on to your contact info here and when I am ready to look for real I will reach out, because I trust a well intentioned SA user to steer my $2-3000 the right way more than I trust myself on reverb. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 19, 2023 |
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Aug 19, 2023 13:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcyP51Eqx4 Came across this looking for modular stuff. Same idea. I'm buying a pickup mic next time I get paid. 1:20 in this video makes me giggle.
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Aug 19, 2023 13:12
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Wow do I have a lot to learn about mouthpieces! A whole world I never knew anything about when I fumbled through this in gradeschool. Mouthpieces are extremely personal, it is very difficult to make recommendations that will always work. So much depends on your own mouth and throat anatomy, and it often takes a few weeks to really get used to a new one and see how it actually plays. And different reeds play differently on different mouthpieces, just to throw another wrench into everything. It's maddening and that's why most sax players have a drawer full of unused mouthpieces.
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Aug 19, 2023 19:45
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Bread Enthusiast posted:Mouthpieces are extremely personal, it is very difficult to make recommendations that will always work. So much depends on your own mouth and throat anatomy, and it often takes a few weeks to really get used to a new one and see how it actually plays. And different reeds play differently on different mouthpieces, just to throw another wrench into everything. It's maddening and that's why most sax players have a drawer full of unused mouthpieces.  so this will end up like my drawer full of unracked VCOs and different kinds of guitar strings. Naively I thought I would buy a saxophone and the resume spending all my money on synthesizers but this thing is really fun and I can see my gear addiction tendencies in my periphery which will assert themselves more and more if I stick with this.
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Aug 20, 2023 11:11
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Maybe! But since decent mouthpieces are pretty pricey that can keep a bit of the packrat tendency down. That said, a Yamaha 4C is a pretty safe bet. The 5C is probably just a touch harder to play (has a larger reed gap). Basically there are two main things going with mouthpiece labels. One is the internal chamber shape, which basically makes the sound more harsh or mellow or light or dark, or whatever other kind of adjectives you want to use to describe timbre. This, combined with your own oral cavity, is going to affect the sound in a big way. The chamber shape is usually specified by a letter of some kind, and these letters are individual to each brand. The second, which is of more immediate concern, is the reed gap on the mouthpiece. Smaller gaps are easier to play and have more 'stable' intonation, and there is also an effect on the tone, generally more pure and less cutting. They also have a lower maximum volume - if you put too much air through a small gap mouthpiece the reed will slam shut and cut you off. Larger gaps take more lip endurance and more air, but you have more potential volume, and the intonation, being much less stable, is more under your control. This is why you kind of move up to the larger ones - you not only need the embouchure strength, you also need the ear to know when you are playing in tune. The reed gap is usually the number in the model, and these are also not standardized but, like, a 5 on one mouthpiece might not exactly be a 5 on another but is in the ballpark... usually. I often wonder if brass players go through all this. I see trumpets comparing their mouthpieces and trading them around all the time and I'm like, it's a metal cup, man. How different could they be from each other? (Cue essay from trumpet player.)
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Aug 20, 2023 18:06
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Not an essay, but here are some basic things we think about: - Our "ligature" is formed through muscle tension in concert with the metal rim pressing into our face. Naturally, the shape of that rim alters the playing experience, like a different or differently tensioned ligature would. - The throat of the mouthpiece, its narrowest point, determines much of the resistance the air column will experience. You need a certain amount of resistance, and if your horn supplies too little you have to supply your own with your body, but too much is unpleasant. - The contour of the cup affects both tone and facility. A deeper cup is typically a "darker" more classical sound, but somewhat more challenging to use; a shallower cup is typically "brighter" and stereotypically appropriate for jazz, and facilitates the upper register. However, too shallow and the cup interferes with your vibrating lips. Fortunately, there's a pretty standard few choices for beginner through student players. I started on a 7C and played a 3C through to the end of high school and that's true of most trumpeters who started in middle school, actually practiced, and finished high school actively practicing but did not pursue serious performance. e: I play a Shew Jazz now, which is pretty close to a 3c but a little shallower. In high school I had to play a lot of classical, but I primarily care about jazz, personally. Ohtori Akio fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 20, 2023 |
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Aug 20, 2023 18:19
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I have settled, I think, on a combination of a basic Yamaha C5 and Vandoren v16 2.5 reeds. I can play for 20-30 mins at a go with limited breaks before I start getting fatigue (manifests as air gaps right where my lips meet on the sides), and even though I am still slipping registers and squeaking a bunch, it all feels like stuff that's under my control, which goes away with slower and more careful play, mostly. Middle G and the transition into it, sometimes gives me a nasty squeak, but it's not reliable and I am at this point more inclined to blame poor inconsistent muscle control and weak chops than I am gonna blame anything on the horn. I've got some 3's, as well, and they are too much for the moment, but I set them aside because I doubt I will be playing 2.5s forever.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:16
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I've been playing for uhhhhh 35 years and I use 2s. (and the ZZs I use much of the time on tenor are allegedly softer than the Java greens so maybe they're like 1.5, who knows). It all depends on your personal anatomy & the mouthpiece. Back when I was still occasionally using the Selmer C* I used 3s, for example, but on any of my wider tip-opening pieces anything above 2 was killing my jaw after like 5 minutes. Sound-wise, basically if you have trouble with low notes (like F and lower in the lower octave, if they pop up an octave or sound warbly or won't come out at all), try softer, and if your high notes are weak, thin, or out of tune, try harder. If everything sounds good then gently caress it, use whatever strength you want. You can potentially play louder with harder reeds too, but (as usual) the mouthpiece has more to do with that. The softer reeds don't physically last as long but I still get a few months out of each one so I'm not too concerned about that. I also can't do altissimo worth a crap but again, don't care. I'd rather be comfortable.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:34
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That makes sense. I am pretty sure I played on 2.5s for 90% of the time I played; it's been a long time. The 2's I had were cheap garbage; if I find the 2.5's too tiring after I run through several of them then I will look at getting more expensive 2's. I hesitate to say it but I think I never really lost my chops or my lung capacity because I kept up with overly enthusiastic reefer smoking for the whole period I was dormant from playing. There may be a lung consequence to that I'm not yet seeing but at the moment I can hold a pretty ludicrous amount of air in, and also legitimately feel like having kept myself tuned into forming a tight seal with myriad smoking devices all the time has kept some muscle tone up 
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Aug 24, 2023 20:29
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Had a non music major friend who played bari sax in the campus band ask me if I could find some specialty reeds for him. I did, and he loved them. They were 5s. On a bari sax. Like duct taping a redwood to your mouthpiece. Sounded like one being chainsawed down too. He was so drat happy.
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Aug 25, 2023 00:09
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That reminds me of the volume wars we used to have in college. Wooden reeds gave way to plastic-covered reeds, and then plastic reeds. Rubber mouthpieces became metal. The saxes sounded like 110 dB weed-whackers by the end of it, it was madness. The term I've heard around here for reeds strength 4 and up is 'popsicle stick'. I do have to use 3s on soprano and clarinet to hit the high notes. It unduly annoys me that I can't just use 2s on everything for consistency (and so I don't have to remember anything).
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Aug 28, 2023 23:56
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Bread Enthusiast posted:That reminds me of the volume wars we used to have in college. Wooden reeds gave way to plastic-covered reeds, and then plastic reeds. Rubber mouthpieces became metal. The saxes sounded like 110 dB weed-whackers by the end of it, it was madness. I can hit 110db with a #2 wood reed on this alto, if I'm playing right into the wall that's got the meter on it with the mouth of the horn about four feet below and directly in the path of the mic on the meter. Now I'm curious what the world's loudest sax is, even though my tinnitus has me trying to practice my pp. Little pp good. E: yes I wore earplugs trying that out. Lol
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Aug 29, 2023 00:11
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and here i am thinking i'm an rear end in a top hat for going up to a clean 'forte' on a trumpet in an apartment
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Aug 29, 2023 00:33
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lol if your Apple Watch isn’t constantly having a fit about loud environments while you’re practicing.
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Aug 29, 2023 03:41
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I know my first post in this thread was asking about Bb clarinet mouthpieces, but I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one. I'm looking at a Vandoren M13 CM1405 or M15 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WGD6792?tag=hellomusictheory-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1) because I've played on them before and sadly broke two of them during performances, but I liked the feel. The Yamaha 4C also looks cool but cheaper, which makes me suspicious. I'm far past my prime but like somebody said upthread, mouthpieces are a large percentage of instrument quality and I want to sound my best. Any thoughts would help.
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Sep 3, 2023 18:58
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I use a Vandoren B45, it was my basic upgrade to my student-level Yamaha clarinet to make it sound passable. It's... fine, I guess? It sounds like a clarinet, even with a Legere plastic reed. It was fine for concert band but my volume is really lacking for jazz stuff. That really rarely comes up, though, on tenor, and the one band I'm in that where it is most likely has mics so I haven't worried too much about it.
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Sep 3, 2023 19:10
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I'm playing concert band. Flexibility is a plus, but I'm not doing any kind of hardcore Rhapsody In Blue-style jazz solos.
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Sep 3, 2023 22:25
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The Grapist posted:In all seriousness, I’ve spent pretty much my entire adult life working for Sam Ash Music and I’m now one of the people that associates and managers call when they need guidance on buying in used and vintage brass and winds. I can find you a better deal than either of them.
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Sep 20, 2023 04:19
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Hirayuki posted:Before I hit you up in PMs, I thought I'd ask here for the benefit of the thread: Do you have any used bari saxes around that are of decent quality? They don't need to be fancy. My kiddo is graduating high school and will lose access to the school-provided rental, but he wants to take a bari to camp next summer and hopefully parlay it into some college perks. Thanks! :grimace: I don't know what a sax salesman will say to this but, having been perusing tenor and bari listings lately, what is "not fancy money" to you? You're easily looking at $2000 just to get something that plays pretty well and doesn't need another $500 in work instantly. I am working my way towards convincing myself to just get a YTS-62III new in box 
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Sep 20, 2023 22:08
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The one I saw at a glance at a local woodwinds shop was north of $5K, so $2K sounds pretty sweet, lol.  We might just end up doing our own rental, which gives us the flexibility of handing the thing back in if it turns out not to be relevant enough in college.
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Sep 21, 2023 01:17
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Hirayuki posted:The one I saw at a glance at a local woodwinds shop was north of $5K, so $2K sounds pretty sweet, lol. If you have a rental option, that's what I'd do in this situation, especially given the uncertainty. I personally would not be comfortable trying to find a bari for 2k; for me that's more like the entry point to an (intermediate) tenor that I might reasonably expect to play pretty well and not need a bunch of work, pads, etc. I have long term aspirations of owning a bari but I am thinking in 3-5 year time frames, and I'm a 40 year old computer toucher. If I didn't have kids, sure, I could afford more horns, but then I'd probably be eyeballing contrabass saxes which get into five digits instantly  I am jelly of your "local woodwind shop"; I may end up driving to Boston to try horns.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:30
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Cabbages and Kings posted:If you have a rental option, that's what I'd do in this situation, especially given the uncertainty. I personally would not be comfortable trying to find a bari for 2k; for me that's more like the entry point to an (intermediate) tenor that I might reasonably expect to play pretty well and not need a bunch of work, pads, etc. . If he's all about bari, we'll find the best way to support that.Cabbages and Kings posted:I am jelly of your "local woodwind shop"; I may end up driving to Boston to try horns.  local. There's a music store much closer with a few instruments in stock that can handle rentals, though. Thanks for your insight!
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Sep 21, 2023 16:54
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Hirayuki posted:he says it's way too hard to switch from bari to alto, which smells of bullshit, but Haw, yeah, nice try, kid. But I played bari in high school myself so I sympathize. Something to note, though, is that if he has any interest in traditional big-band jazz, it is generally a lot easier to get in a band on bari. Part of it is that all the hotshots want to be lead tenor or alto, but the real trick is not everyone has a bari. One of the main bands I'm in I got in as a bari sub cause they were desperate and a friend-of-a-friend knew I played it. (I'm on tenor now as a regular so the bari passport plan worked.) For price reference, I got a used Yamaha 61 in decent condition (considering the age) about 10 years ago for around $2400 from a local music store that had it on consignment. Add 10 years of inflation to that, plus I think I got a little lucky, and yeah, they unfortunately cost a lot.
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Sep 21, 2023 17:37
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I never thought that when the point in my life came where I could think about things like "cars that are fun and functional", I'd be cheaping out on vehicles as much as possible while frantically trying to fill a room with horns and oscillators, but here we are
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Sep 22, 2023 05:08
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Cabbages and Kings posted::grimace: I don't know what a sax salesman will say to this but, having been perusing tenor and bari listings lately, what is "not fancy money" to you? You're easily looking at $2000 just to get something that plays pretty well and doesn't need another $500 in work instantly. If you're looking to get a new YTS-62III I'll be able to get you one 10% off, maybe more. A pair of minty YAS-62II and YTS-62II horns are about to be taken off police hold if you want the last generation for $1000 less than that! Hirayuki posted:The one I saw at a glance at a local woodwinds shop was north of $5K, so $2K sounds pretty sweet, lol. I had two or three good Bari's come and go through my shop in the last few weeks, one was a Yanagisawa and the other was a Cannonball. The Yani sold for about $3500 and the Cannonball, being a current production model, sold for about $5200. Being someone that used to oversee my companies import lines, I saw how the sausage gets made and while the Cannonball's are some of the top made Taiwanese horns out there, I would go for the Yanagisawa every time. I commissioned Bari's for our Jean Baptiste line that were made in the same factory that Buffet and P. Mauriat uses, and they're excellent copies . . . of Yanagisawas. Depending on what your time frame is, I would strongly suggest searching for a Yanagisawa bari. They're solid horns top to bottom, and because they took so long to "catch on" in the US, you'll find Stencil models of some of their later models with brand names such as Vito and Martin. I actually get involved with every high end and vintage brass and winds buy in for my company, so I'll know when we get one before most anyone else. The Grapist fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 23:17
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The Grapist posted:A pair of minty YAS-62II and YTS-62II horns are about to be taken off police hold if you want the last generation for $1000 less than that! yea lets talk about this actually LOL. I already PM'd you
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Oct 2, 2023 12:55
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Good lord I've been avoiding this thread for months cuz one of y'all went and stepped on the "all brass mouthpieces are the same" landmine. Ohtori Akio, are you still looking for a second-hand flugelhorn? Because I did actually dig up some good info that would help you out, but I put posting it on a back-burner and eventually forgot. 
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Oct 30, 2023 20:34
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i am vaguely in the market but will not be buying until i am employed once more. so if you have killer strats lets still hear em
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Oct 30, 2023 20:37
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Ohtori Akio posted:i am vaguely in the market but will not be buying until i am employed once more. so if you have killer strats lets still hear em Cool, I'll put 'em up once I'm done with this NICSA entry thread. I, too, am broke and between income sources.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:44
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In the meantime, here is a fun toy I found! Behold, VennCAD!!     VennCAD is a very cool and useful, FREE TO DOWNLOAD program that lets you see every measurement of a brass mouthpiece, look at scale cross-sections of mouthpieces and compare up to 3 of them on top of each other, and create your very own custom mouthpieces with your own custom specs and also shows you other mouthpieces with similar specs (I think, I haven't tried that part out yet)! The UI is kinda dated and looks like it hasn't been updated since Windows 7, and the mouthpiece library could do with an update too, but the rest of it is loving awesome and will eat up hours of your time. Click here to download VennCAD
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Nov 2, 2023 20:21
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I. M. Gei posted:In the meantime, here is a fun toy I found! Looks like it supports exporting models as STLs too, so I'm going to try printing a fake Denis Wick 4AL and see how it plays: 
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Nov 2, 2023 23:31
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I need a 3D printer so bad
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Nov 2, 2023 23:46
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you're 100% better off with a lexan mp than a printed resin mp for actual use but it seems like a fun way to try out a profile
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Nov 2, 2023 23:50
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I have an FDM printer, so it's even less suited to mouthpiece making, but this Denis Wick profile plays pretty close to the real thing 
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Nov 3, 2023 00:42
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