|
selec posted:I’ve been to a couple protests since j6 so ????? No meaningful precedent was set on Jan 6th, totally normal take
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 09:25 |
|
|
sorry, just to repeat: communism is an ideal that is now only useful as an idea, because Capital has already won. just gonna get that out there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:23
|
|
|
mdemone posted:RICO is rarely justified. you're correct that it is not justified for the stopcopcity protestors. "Conspiracy" was not invoked as a motive force in protesting prior to Jan 6th. The widespread acceptance of this narrative is what enables it to be invoked as a motive factor in protesting against Cop City. First of all, the government is responsive to public opinion and outcries, despite what some may think. Secondly, the government, the courts, the prosecutors, et al are also constituents of the public. Meaning, if they have accepted this wider narrative of this association of conspiracy and rackeeteering with protest (conspiracy is not something that can be separated from protest, mind you) they will reify this belief and apply it. Without accepting this idea first then the charges probably don't exist at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:24
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:"Conspiracy" was not invoked as a motive force in protesting prior to Jan 6th. The widespread acceptance of this narrative is what enables it to be invoked as a motive factor in protesting against Cop City. First of all, the government is responsive to public opinion and outcries, despite what some may think. Secondly, the government, the courts, the prosecutors, et al are also constituents of the public. Meaning, if they have accepted this wider narrative of this association of conspiracy and rackeeteering with protest (conspiracy is not something that can be separated from protest, mind you) they will reify this belief and apply it. Without accepting this idea first then the charges probably don't exist at all. I mean, I agree with you. But are you aware that the RICO charges against Trump in Georgia have literally nothing to do with the J6 protests? like, at all? this is not difficult information to keep up with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:26
|
|
|
mdemone posted:*rolls eyes* Finally someone is brave enough to say Trump is just like Hitler. mdemone, thank you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:27
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Finally someone is brave enough to say Trump is just like Hitler. mdemone, thank you. lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:28
|
|
|
little worried that you guys do not actually understand what I'm saying. Trump is a symptom of a broken/stagnant America, just as Hitler was a symptom of a broken/stagnant Europe. lol trump equals Hitler we got mdemone this time
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:30
|
|
|
mdemone posted:I mean, I agree with you. What were the J6 protests about? What are the RICO charges about? Of course the RICO charges in Georgia have something to do with the J6 protests. The association doesn't disappear just because it's related to but not explicitly about. The association most certainly doesn't disappear if Trump is charged for J6 protest conspiracy in the same month (13 days prior to the RICO charges). The charges are different, and arguably appropriate, but it's all in the same grab bag.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:33
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:What were the J6 protests about? What are the RICO charges about? The RICO charges are about the conspiracy to submit a false slate of electors to Mike Pence in order for him to introduce them at the electoral count on January 6. He did not do that. January 6 did not occur because that conspiracy failed. The J6 charges are about the physical obstruction of that electoral count voting on January 6. all those guys like Rhodes and Tarrio had no knowledge of the behind-the-scenes conspiracy in Georgia and elsewhere, nor does it even matter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:37
|
|
|
I'm the guy forgetting about the van full of feds going to kidnap Gretchen whitmer. Or the pipe bombs in garbage bins on j6.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
cagliostr0 posted:I'm the guy forgetting about the van full of feds going to kidnap Gretchen whitmer. Or the pipe bombs in garbage bins on j6. the pipe bombs were next to the DNC and also possibly the RNC. where do you people get your information?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:39
|
|
|
mdemone posted:nor does it even matter. Doesn't it? Doesn't it imply that actors like Rhodes and Tarrio were acting in the furtherance of a conspiracy? As far as I'm aware the law doesn't require that actors be "read in" or explicitly aware of the greater conspiracy in which they are participants to be charged as conspirators.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
mdemone posted:the pipe bombs were next to the DNC and also possibly the RNC. tucker
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:Doesn't it? Doesn't it imply that actors like Rhodes and Tarrio were acting in the furtherance of a conspiracy? As far as I'm aware the law doesn't require that actors be "read in" or explicitly aware of the greater conspiracy in which they are participants to be charged as conspirators. what'd you get the ysl connection from
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:48
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:Doesn't it? Doesn't it imply that actors like Rhodes and Tarrio were acting in the furtherance of a conspiracy? As far as I'm aware the law doesn't require that actors be "read in" or explicitly aware of the greater conspiracy in which they are participants to be charged as conspirators. ....they're not charged in Georgia and could not have been aware of the crimes that have been charged there. I've appreciated your literary recommendations in the past but I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:48
|
|
|
epstine
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
Centrist Committee posted:epstine EPSTINE
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:55
|
|
|
e. p. stine
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:57
|
|
|
I don't think we have a story of Epstein v. Pressure. Even if it's just first day jitters. Besides getting murdered in prison.* KORNOLOGY has issued a correction as of 01:01 on Sep 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
mdemone posted:hundreds of them were there that day. As a communist, I can't conceive of a single reason the FBI would orchestrate J6. No reason at all. Also speaking as a communist, J6 proves the need for aggressive law enforcement efforts with new powers and funding to stamp out the domestic fascist menace that J6 proves exists. Now let me take a big sip of water as I read up on all the domestic terror and sedition plots the FBI has bravely defended us against since it was founded.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
SgtMongoose posted:As a communist, I can't conceive of a single reason the FBI would orchestrate J6. No reason at all. you loving idiots did nobody ever teach you the is/ought problem?!! I can argue for communism, which OUGHT to be. but now we are talking about the criminal Justice system in America, which IS ACTUALLY IN EFFECT edit: I swear to god you'd all fail simple logic tests. get a brain morans
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:05
|
|
|
mdemone posted:....they're not charged in Georgia and could not have been aware of the crimes that have been charged there. I've appreciated your literary recommendations in the past but I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about here. I'm making a general point, not talking about them and what they're aware of or where they've been charged. I'm doing forest stuff and you keep pointing at trees. No biggie, I'm probably not communicating effectively since I'm more than half distracted. Cheers mate, you're one of the more enjoyable posters to argue opposite me, when it's happened.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:06
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:I'm making a general point, not talking about them and what they're aware of or where they've been charged. I'm doing forest stuff and you keep pointing at trees. No biggie, I'm probably not communicating effectively since I'm more than half distracted. Cheers mate, you're one of the more enjoyable posters to argue opposite me, when it's happened. forest v. trees is fair enough. my overall point is that there are enough actual legit crimes that have been committed, to go around plenty for everyone without it having to be some over-arching conspiracy to take them down
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:10
|
|
|
mdemone posted:you loving idiots did nobody ever teach you the is/ought problem?!! this
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:10
|
|
|
I’m pro fantasy communism, and pro actually existing fascism, why is this so hard to understand you loving CHUDS???
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:12
|
|
|
mark immune posted:I’m pro fantasy communism, and pro actually existing fascism, why is this so hard to understand you loving CHUDS??? ....so you would do what with trump? just let it happen? anything else would be fascism? that's a completely ridiculous formulation and if you don't know that then you're an idiot. if you do, then you're worse than that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:15
|
|
|
the dangerous consequences of J6 isn’t that the cops weren’t previously willing to throw the book at leftists, they obviously have been. the dangerous consequences are all the liberals who, because they cheered on the state crushing J6 will cheer on or stay silent when the state crushes things like a new version of the Wisconsin Teacher’s strike, or the terrorism charges for the Cop City protesters. Obviously the libs have never been true allies, but they finally abandoning the idea of protesters wielding coercive power is a decline in the democracy. It might have been inevitable but it’s still a bad thing now that it’s happening.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:15
|
|
|
would you go back in time and kill baby trump, or are you a dumb CHUD??
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:16
|
|
|
mdemone posted:you loving idiots did nobody ever teach you the is/ought problem?!! You realize that "the criminal Justice system in America, which IS ACTUALLY IN EFFECT," has a long history of orchestrating events and plots like J6 for its own aggrandizement, right? You are apparently unable to correctly asses or even conceive of the motives and goals of the American criminal justice system based on its very real and storied history. You being a communist has nothing to do with an is/ought issue, only that your own political ideology's persecution at the hands of that criminal justice system should make you aware of this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
he IS retarded/he OUGHT to stop posting
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:18
|
|
|
mdemone posted:you loving idiots did nobody ever teach you the is/ought problem?!! shut up dweeb, stay in your containment thread
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:20
|
|
|
mark immune posted:he IS retarded/he OUGHT to stop posting
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:the dangerous consequences of J6 isn’t that the cops weren’t previously willing to throw the book at leftists, they obviously have been. this is actually a decent, coherent take but considering how many agitators have been found dead by suicide via gunshot to the back of their head in their burned out car, i've always wondered why anyone think the state needs more pretense to just murder undesirables who get too much juice, they've done it forever
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 02:06
|
|
|
yeah to jump on, it does seem like the issue is whether this is a chance for those in power to use yet another crisis to gain more power and public support or whether it was an orchestrated crisis. There’s a lot of history of these crises being orchestrated or pushed particularly, including the largest one of any most people on here’s lifetime. On the other hand there’s also a lot of evidence that some crises just happen (often due to structural issues which can be eventually traced to actual actions taken, albeit a domino effect). And there’s crisis that are a mix of both. Thing is, though, what really matters is what those in power are able to do based on the crisis. We’ve seen how hard the January 6th people have been cracked down on. and we’ve seen how they’ve been abandoned by even a lot of conservative media as deserving of their fate or at least not worth covering their plight. I think what PMJ is doing is trying to read the patterns in away to predict how things are going to pan out and what to be aware of or worried about. I don’t agree with all of their readings, but it’s a valid enough strategy and one that is at worst advocating for a lot of extra caution. it’s worth listening to the most pessimistic take at least to be ready for the worst. I haven’t seen PMJ saying “don’t go protest” or “give up hope.” But, this is also the conspiracy thread and loving let them cook lol. edit: this extends to the specific topic at hand regarding the protests. not endorsing any PMJ posts. EDIT 2: PMJ not PFC lol. Sorry for conflating but I am basing this off PMJ in this thread. fr0id has issued a correction as of 03:24 on Sep 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 02:27
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:latest Ghost Stories for the End of the World, episode 73, CARTELWORLD, is very good. Clocking in at about one "what the gently caress" every two minutes seconding this it's a must listen the Prince Andrew interview, holy poo poo lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 02:30
|
|
|
it's not PFC it's PMJ lol.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
J6 wasn't nearly as big an attack on protest and organisation as Trudeau's reaction to the honkening anyway
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 03:04
|
|
|
DR FRASIER KRANG posted:it's not PFC it's PMJ lol. lol my bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 03:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 09:25 |
|
|
J6 talk: did the feds ever pick up John Sullivan and/or Jade Sacker?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2023 03:55
|
|
