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Option 4 I haven't seen either of them.
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Sep 21, 2023 13:21
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Hell yeah carriers. Always my favourite unit as a kid, it's just so cool.
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Sep 21, 2023 13:54
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Option 4.
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Sep 21, 2023 14:37
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Everyone remembers "you must construct additional pylons," but for me the voiceline that captures the quintessence of playing Protoss is "carrier has arrived"
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Sep 21, 2023 15:38
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I'd say both but if you feel it'd be too long or exhausting to do that then I'd say of the one that's not fully featured for the intermission do one highlight mission (or highlight reel from across the mini-campaign) to showcase what's there without necessarily doing the whole enchilada.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:49
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megane posted:Everyone remembers "you must construct additional pylons," but for me the voiceline that captures the quintessence of playing Protoss is "carrier has arrived" POWER OVERWHELMING for me -- although that one might be because little teenybopper me sucked at the game and cheated a lot. Even got a shoutout in the LotV trailer
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Sep 21, 2023 16:38
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The one thing missing from this LP's unit showcases is compiling the lines units say if you annoy them by clicking on them too many times in a row.
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Sep 21, 2023 16:40
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So, for anyone who has checked out the "Starcraft, but all the unit sizes are correct" mod, did they make the Arbiter as small as the cutscene makes it out to be? As a kid I always thought that was an Observer and didn't realize it was an Arbiter performing a recall Oh, and also I vote option 4
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Sep 21, 2023 17:12
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idonotlikepeas posted:It's someone's attempt to do their own version of Roy Batty's "Tears in Rain" monologue without performing a lot of research on stellar phenomena. Even back then, the Void was basically space magic in Starcraft, so nothing Zeratul was going to say about that was going to be in the same galaxy as realistic. He's basically declaring, "The universe is wilder and weirder than the Conclave knows, and the least of that is currently inside your house trying to kill you while you argue over who does the dishes!"
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Sep 21, 2023 17:17
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sirtommygunn posted:What the gently caress is a negative sun Okay, so, this is actually a real thing. I don't want to nerd out too much about it, but how familiar are you with astrophysics? If you've got at least a basic understanding, you should be able to keep up with this. Basically, we know from science that what we call a "sun" is actually a bright yellow circle with sunglasses and a smiley face. A negative sun, then, is a bright yellow circle with sunglasses and a frown-y face. I had to look up when researchers discovered this and it was something like 1997? So it was pretty cutting-edge for Blizzard to have this in their game already, someone on staff must have been a big science nerd. TheLoquid posted:Next episode aside, I should say that this has been a tremendous LP. Really good work! Thanks! I really appreciate it. BlazetheInferno posted:I adore the bit with Jim learning how to pilot the Hyperion. Well drat, I didn't know any of that, that's crazy. No wonder Fenix is such a threat. FoolyCharged posted:
MagusofStars posted:This really matters in terms of enemy armor upgrades (and Plasma Shields for Protoss) since Interceptors do fairly small damage to start with so it's more impactful proportionally - cutting Interceptor damage from 6 per shot to 3 is effectively a 50% damage reduction, while getting +3 armor against a Battlecruiser is like a 10% damage reduction. To really illustrate this, here's a video of Battlecruisers vs Carriers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-xkL02-I7A As a general rule, these sorts of "Who Would Win?" videos are just for fun and don't really indicate how a unit performs in-game, but it's mindblowing to see just how absolutely abysmal Carriers are against Battlecruisers. I've seen another one where the Carriers heavily outnumbered the Cruisers and still got completely destroyed, but it was on TikTok and I can't find it anywhere else :/ vyelkin posted:The one thing missing from this LP's unit showcases is compiling the lines units say if you annoy them by clicking on them too many times in a row. Those are coming in posts of their own! Come to think of it, if current voting trends continue, the intermission would be a good time to run those, since we won't really have much in the way of Spotlights left and a lot of the more high-concept strategy posts and mechanical deep-dives are things I want to hold off until we're in Brood War proper. Simply Simon posted:Four, I've never seen any of that content and I wonder what high difficulty means For reference, Enslavers generally occupies a middle ground where it's not quite as bad as Brood War at its most challenging, but it's still more difficult than anything in the first three episodes (and probably... I dunno, like maybe two thirds of Brood War? I actually haven't done the BW campaign in ages so I forget). Loomings, by contrast, is going to be roughly on par with the challenge level of the first half of Episode One - i.e. basically no challenge whatsoever (it is a demo campaign, after all). But it's fun in other ways.
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Sep 21, 2023 17:23
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Another thing missing to make this accurate to my experience playing Starcraft as a young one is covering all the cheats that I couldn't play without
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Sep 21, 2023 17:43
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JohnKilltrane posted:
Also Option 4 DTurtle fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 17:46
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JohnKilltrane posted:To really illustrate this, here's a video of Battlecruisers vs Carriers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-xkL02-I7A As a general rule, these sorts of "Who Would Win?" videos are just for fun and don't really indicate how a unit performs in-game, but it's mindblowing to see just how absolutely abysmal Carriers are against Battlecruisers. I've seen another one where the Carriers heavily outnumbered the Cruisers and still got completely destroyed, but it was on TikTok and I can't find it anywhere else :/ And with half of them wasting their time going after interceptors instead of targeting the carriers.
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Sep 21, 2023 17:49
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megane posted:Everyone remembers "you must construct additional pylons," but for me the voiceline that captures the quintessence of playing Protoss is "carrier has arrived" For me it's "Ab-so-lutely!" for Terrans, "LIVE FOR THE SWARM!" for Zerg and "POWER OVERWHELMING" for Protoss. From all RTS games, only Dawn of War has more iconic unit quotes.
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Sep 21, 2023 21:19
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Voting 4! For me it is "My life for Aiur!" as Protoss, evey single zergling sound as Zerg, the little buggers are so cute :3 , never played much as Terrans but their announcers "Not enough minerals" had an annoying tone that always irritated me that is seared into my brain now lol. Me, my brother and some of his friends used to play alot of SC1/BW LAN games when growing up and I always played zerg, and I can still hear every single zergling sound in my head. Noir89 fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 21:26
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Voting 4 here! As for soundbites, I think I speak for all of us when I mention " *KSSSH* Aaaah yeaaah that's the stuff~!"
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Sep 21, 2023 23:45
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Vote for #4 from me.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:57
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Loomings actually has a number of very interesting things going on in it despite the low difficulty, let's definitely do that. Example: the true power of the Firebat, unleashed. I was never much of a Protoss player, I tended to just use cheesy gimmick strategies like straight-to-DT or mass reaver drops which rarely worked against anybody playing for real. But when you Tossin for serious,  CARRIER HAS ARRIVED is beautiful music.
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Sep 22, 2023 01:49
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Loomings.
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Sep 22, 2023 15:12
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The Carrier might actually be my favourite voice acting in the game. Dude's in command of arguably the mightiest ship and he knows it.DTurtle posted:I expect you'll mention this in the unit spotlight, but this actually isn't really true. There's a reason you will see every pro player attack their own buildings with their carriers a bit in every match. Good eye! We will indeed be looking at this in the spotlight as part of the Weird and Wild World of Interceptors.
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Sep 22, 2023 15:19
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JohnKilltrane posted:Good eye! We will indeed be looking at this in the spotlight as part of the Weird and Wild World of Interceptors. You do a really great job at both the screenshot LP part as well as the outside the single player part. Definitely a worthy representation of the RTS that kicked off competitive E-Sports worldwide.
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Sep 22, 2023 15:58
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Loomings, though a quick trip through the more popular UMS maps would be fun too! A negative sun is simply a star formed purely of antihydrogen. Don't get too close.
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Sep 22, 2023 20:18
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I don't care about the order, I just want to eventually see all of the non-base/non-BC campaigns that I never played.
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Sep 23, 2023 02:06
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I've only ever played the basic game and Brood War, so let's see Loomings and Enslavers! (And if you're gonna quote the Carrier pilot, do it right. "CARRIER HAS ARRIVED.")
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Sep 23, 2023 14:52
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Decoy Badger posted:Loomings, though a quick trip through the more popular UMS maps would be fun too! There are a ton of unique UMS maps even if you just limit them to official Blizzard ones, like Deception, Mercenaries, and my personal fave 12 Days of Starcraft. Trick is getting twelve people together at once. I never leave a couple specific threads in the LP forum, does SA have something like a game night discord? Might be arrangeable.
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Sep 23, 2023 15:32
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I voted 5 on the thread, I'm voting 4 for the poll.
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Sep 24, 2023 05:12
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DTurtle posted:Perfect! Considering the quality and thoroughness of your other spotlights, I expected nothing less. Thanks! I appreciate that a lot. I'm glad it seems people are enjoying reading this thread as much as I'm enjoying making it. bladededge posted:There are a ton of unique UMS maps even if you just limit them to official Blizzard ones, like Deception, Mercenaries, and my personal fave 12 Days of Starcraft. Trick is getting twelve people together at once. I might showcase the Mercenaries saga at some point! They aren't terribly interesting, and some of them are multiplayer maps that don't work super well with just one player, but they're the source of the bizarre MAJOR SPOILERS I'M NOT JOKING I KNOW SOMETIMES WHEN I SAY MAJOR SPOILERS IT'S A JOKE BUT THIS TIME IT ISN'T AND I'M AWARE THIS EXPLANATION MAKES IT SEEM LIKE IT'S A JOKE BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO COMMUNICATE THIS Stukov resurrection/infestation plot that one could be forgiven for thinking was an invention of Starcraft 2, so that might be worth digging into. It'd have to be pretty late in the game, though. Maybe I'll just do the pertinent parts after Brood War, as like the SSLP equivalent of a stinger.
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Sep 24, 2023 13:13
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Considering that Starcraft 2 explicitly calls it out, I think it's worth doing! 
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Sep 24, 2023 16:22
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JohnKilltrane posted:I'M AWARE THIS EXPLANATION MAKES IT SEEM LIKE IT'S A JOKE BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO COMMUNICATE THIS This spoiler is not a place of honor.
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Sep 26, 2023 08:34
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Unit Spotlight: Carrier The Carrier as it appears in the manual. Cost: 350 minerals, 250 Vespene, 6 supply HP: 300 Shields: 150 Armour: 4 (!) Size: Large Damage: 6 per Interceptor (+1) Damage Type: Normal DPS: ~3.9 per Interceptor, yielding ~15 with 4 and ~31 with 8 Range: It's Complicated. Let's say 8+4 Speed: 3.3 Sight: 11 Special: Launches Interceptors Interceptor Cost: 25 minerals HP: 40 Shields: 40 Armour: 0 Range: 4 Damage: Look up. Wa-a-a-a-a-y up. Well okay only a few lines up but still. Speed: 13.33 Sight: 0 The queen of the skies, the Carrier is one of the strongest units in the game. A combined 450 Shields and HP makes it second only to the Battlecruiser in durability, and that 4 armour is the highest in the game (though bear in mind it only kicks in once the Carrier's shields are down). The Carrier isn't nearly as one-sided as, say, the Archon, but its HP: Shields distribution is still heavily skewed - although towards HP rather than Shields. This is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it means that Carriers get to mostly take advantage of that beefy armour stat. On the other hand, it means that only a small part of the Carrier's life can be regenerated, and Plague is a real doozy for them (for two reasons! The second of which we'll get into below). Offensively, the Carrier is a humongous powerhouse, doing huge amounts of damage to most enemies in the game. As discussed already in the thread, the fact that it's 4-8 attacks at 6 damage apiece means that Carriers, more than any other unit in the game, have a really hard time dealing with high armour ratings. Carriers are deathly afraid of Battlecruisers, and they aren't going to be winning "Ultralisk Killer of the Year" anytime soon. But exceptions aside, the Carrier rips through huge enemy forces like they're paper. Also a few things worth noting about the Interceptor: It's the fastest unit in the game by a huge margin - the speed difference between an Interceptor and an upgraded Vulture is roughly the same as the speed difference between a Scourge and a Battlecruiser. It's also surprisingly tanky, with 80 total HP and Shields. But most important is its sight range: 0. No using Interceptors to extend the Carrier's vision.  This is a pretty cool infograph of the Carrier I found on SC2 Mindgames. Unfortunately it's wrong - Interceptors do 6 damage each, not 6x2. There's only three and a half double attacks, and Interceptors aren't one of them. But other than that! Neat overview. I might make this sort of thing for my spotlights if I had more time. And even a quark of graphic design ability. More Than Anyone Ever Wanted To Know About Interceptors: The Carrier is a unit with a ton of oddities and edge cases, and they all have to do with how Interceptors work. Let's start by looking at them in theory, so we can understand why they don't actually work that way (or can be made to not act that way with a little coaxing): Carriers launch Interceptors one at a time, at a rate of roughly one every half second, against any target within a range of 8. The Interceptors will all circle around this target, shooting at a quite fast clip - the fastest attack speed in the game, in theory, though it's more complicated than that (this is StarCraft, after all). When the battle is won or an Interceptor reaches 20 shields, it returns to the Carrier. Interceptors within the Carrier heal at an unmatched rate of 12 HP/second, then get launched again at another target. That's how it works in theory.  A smoking Interceptor streaks across the skies of Aiur alongside its Carrier. In practice, it's a little different. First, and most importantly, Interceptors cannot return to a moving Carrier. You've seen more maybe seen mentioned in the thread the practice of Protoss sometimes using Carriers to attack their own buildings, and this is why: the Carrier launches all its Interceptors at the building, and then once they're out there, the Carrier starts moving out. So long as the Carrier never stops moving, the Interceptors won't dock and will instead continue to travel with the Carrier as a cloud of death, bypassing that nasty slow launch speed. Through careful micro, Protoss can considerably amplify the Carrier's damage output as a result - and in fact, the power of Magic Box'd Carriers has depths that are still being plumbed. It's also important to note that the Interceptor itself has a range of 4, meaning that Interceptors that are launched and at the edge of the Carrier's range (8) can still hit enemies up to 4 spaces away from that. As a result, this gives the Carrier two ranges: what's called the Launch Range, or targets that the Carrier can send Interceptors at when they're docked, which is 8, and the Leash Range, or targets that the Interceptors can fire on once they've been sent out, which is 12. Long-time readers may remember that when we first saw the Siege Tank I said that it was technically tied for longest range in the game - this is why. Second, what actually causes the Interceptors to return is a little odd. I said “when the battle is won” and if that sounds really ambiguous, that’s because it is. I did some tests to illustrate:     Note that when the Cannon is destroyed, two Interceptors return to the Carrier, but a third doesn't? Weird, right? So here's my understanding: when the target is destroyed, the Interceptors undergo some sort of check to verify if they're still "in combat." If so, they stay out. If not, they return to the Carrier. As you can see, it seems this is independently checked for each Interceptor. I'm not sure what qualifies as "in combat," whether it's a question of target acquisition or what. I might bug the open source Brood War people about this, they may have the answers. The reason I'm not waiting to hear back from them before I post, though, is because it's ultimately moot: keep those Carriers moving and you don't have to worry about it. Finally, Interceptors return to the Carrier to heal. When an Interceptor's been reduced to 10 Shields, it goes back to the Carrier. As soon as it docks, its Shields are instantly replenished, and its HP regenerates at a rate of 12 per second, making it both the fastest healing unit in the game and the only Protoss unit that can fully heal. Once it has at least 20 HP, it will launch again - meaning if an Interceptor hits 10 Shields but doesn't take any HP damage, it'll dock but then immediately get launched again. Come to think of it this could also be the source of those two Interceptors returning above. I'd used Power Overwhelming but that only prevents HP damage, not Shield damage. Huh. Oh well. This means Plague has an interesting interaction with Carriers. Not only does it quickly chew through their HP-heavy hulls, it also persists on Interceptors once they dock, preventing them from regenerating and effectively eliminating them for the duration of the spell as the Interceptors are stuck inside the Carrier, waiting for Plague to wear off so they can hit that 20 HP requirement. A single, well-placed Plague can completely neuter a fleet of Carriers for nearly thirty seconds. (Okay, okay, technically Plague does ~11.75 damage per second, which is slightly lower than the Carrier repairing 12 HP per second, meaning Plagued Interceptors do still heal a fraction of an HP every second. But it's almost never going to get them over that 20 threshold). Fluff: The Carrier is a massive command ship, and as the splash screens have shown, we've leading the last few missions from the bridge of a Carrier - the Gantrithor, specifically. The Carrier has no weapons of its own but instead houses production and maintenance facilities for Interceptors, small robotic tactical fighters that it unleashes on any who dare oppose the Firstborn. Interestingly enough, this would later be retconned by Blizzard, who later decided that the Carriers do actually have weapons of their own - a massive, front-facing energy cannon that's too impractical for combat and is instead used for orbital bombardment. This would even make its way back into SC1 via Remastered. Remember this added art of the Protoss obliterating Mar Sara?  This is mostly interesting because it's one of the very few instances of Blizzard retconning this game that as far as I can tell has been generally well-received. I guess a lot of people were pretty underwhelmed by the idea of a massive capital ship whose entire thing was just launching 4-8 drones. I remember even as kids reading the manual where it explicitly says "the Carriers have no weapon batteries or armaments of any kind" and saying "Pretty sure they do." Tech Fluff: Our Fleet Beacons are capable of refitting our Carriers with extra fighter bays, giving Increased Carrier Capacity. That's, uh, yeah, that's it.  A front close-up of the Carrier from the final Terran cinematic we saw way back when Campaign Usage: Carriers are one of the most iconic units of the campaign because they're the pinnacle of "turtle up, get a bunch, A-move across the map." They easily handle basically everything (except Battlecruisers but it's rare that the AI gets enough of those to threaten a Carrier fleet). Or rather, they easily handle everything that's not a spellcaster: Storm, Stasis Field, Plague, Lockdown, and even Ensnare and EMP can make their lives very difficult, so they're not quite a magic "I win!" button. But they're close. I'm going to try to strike a balance here - on the one hand, I want to use them at least a fair bit, because they're fun and cool and iconic. On the other hand, we're also gonna want some variety, plus dozens of Interceptors zooming around does not a good screenshot make. Competitive Usage: A weird unit. The Carrier mostly sees use in one matchup, and it's largely due to what we mentioned above in the Campaign section: these guys do not have an easy time with spellcasters. Vs Terran: If you're going to see Carriers, this is normally the spot, but it mostly comes down to a question of the map itself. Basically, Carriers are an incredibly powerful tool for wiping out Tank lines, minefields, and sniping expansions, but there's a big, big weakness. Not Battlecruisers, actually - if you'll remember the BC spotlight this is the one match where they aren't really ever seen, and it's largely because Protoss spellcasters are just a nightmare for them. No, your big concern here is Goliaths: their coming super-secret range upgrade makes them a real terror for Carriers, especially given the numbers Terran will likely have in the late game. And that's why it's all down to the map. If a map is full of cliffs and high ground and has good spots where Carriers can safely hang out and obliterate Siege Tanks without being easily accessed by Goliaths, then they're a great late-game option. If the map is wide open and Goliaths can easily pursue Carriers over flat ground? Hard pass.  Protoss sends in Carriers to snipe a Terran expansion...   ...and with the base (extremely rapidly) cleared out...  ...it becomes the ideal staging ground for dealing with Terran's Goliaths. Vs Zerg: There's one very big reason why Carriers are a liability in this matchup. We've talked about it a bit above; we've seen it for ourselves in the Zerg campaign: Defilers. Plague can completely shut Carriers down. Dark Swarm can completely shut Carriers down. Carriers have one saving grace here, and that's maneuverability. They're slower than Defilers, yes, but the fact that they're flying makes it easy for them to again take advantage of terrain and get to places where the Defilers aren't. The other issue here are Hydras. Now Hydras do 8 damage, Carriers have base 4 armour, that doesn't seem too threatening. But consider that by the late game, Zerg's gonna have ranged damage upgrades and you're almost certainly not going to have any air armour upgrades, and then consider that by the late game Zerg's likely got a veritable sea of Hydras. Real bad news for Carriers. Especially once Dark Swarm gets mixed in. The end result being that Carriers are extremely rare in this matchup, and if they're used, Protoss will normally have to take great pains to deny scouting so the Carriers can be an effective surprise attack. Vs Protoss: Absolutely not. If PvP reaches the late game it's basically just a constant barrage of Storms, and man do Carriers not do well in an environment like that. Sure, the ships are tanky enough to endure five or so Storms, but they're slow enough that, yeah, they absolutely will get hit by five or so Storms. On top of that, Storms are also gonna shred Interceptors. So yeah, very limited Carrier potential in this matchup. And finally, the Carrier does get a hero unit! We'll be seeing it soon, in fact. Sadly Interceptors do not get a hero unit, but you can't have everything.
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Oct 6, 2023 01:45
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Carriers are just so loving cool.
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Oct 6, 2023 02:36
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Only unit I like more than carriers is the goliath, and thats just because the voice lines on the goliath are just so good
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Oct 6, 2023 02:41
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Oh yeah, blob of Carriers, Attack-Move to the other end of the map was totally my scene.
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Oct 6, 2023 03:08
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In the opening cutscene those scavengers get obliterated by a giant protoss ship laser. I guess it wasn't explicitly said to be a carrier but what else?
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Oct 6, 2023 03:52
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CARRIER HAS ARRIVED
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Oct 6, 2023 04:52
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I'm surprised Scourge didn't get mentioned among Carriers' counters. Their nickname, "Carrier Killer" is rather explicit at what they're most famous for.
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Oct 6, 2023 09:31
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There's a weird interaction between armour and Protoss shields, extremely relevant for carriers and their massive 4 armour: if an attack deals enough damage to deplete shields after the shield's reduction value, armour is applied to the leftover damage. Example, let's say a 35 normal damage shot hits a carrier with mostly depleted shields, let's say the carrier still has 6 shields. Let's say the Protoss player has researched the first shield upgrade, for a shield reduction of 1 damage, and 2 air armour upgrades. The 35 damage is reduced to 34 by the shields, and then 6 get absorbed to leave 28 leftover damage. Those are further reduced to 22 by the 6 armour before reducing health. Total damage dealt is 28; the 35 damage has been reduced by both the 1 shields and 6 armour.
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Oct 6, 2023 10:15
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JohnKilltrane posted:Unit Spotlight: Carrier 1. Every interceptor flies around, chooses their target, starts their attack run and shoots independently. Due to flying around before shooting again, their DPS goes down a lot when attacking the same target. However, whenever the carrier is told to attack another unit (not the same one!) all interceptors immediately go and swarm and attack. That's why you need a critical mass of carriers, so that they immediately destroy their target, and the player can give one attack command after another, drastically increasing their DPS. 2. However, there is a downside to this: This is massively inefficient against larger amounts of small, weak targets like workers, marines, hydras, scourge, etc. Against targets like this, you actually want to attack as many different targets as possible - preferentially per interceptor. A few years ago a micro trick (involving hold position and spamming stop) was found that actually makes this possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W0B0jZEQrc However, I haven't seen it used in any competitive pro match. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 12:05
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How are scourge so good at killing carriers? Wouldn't the interceptors just dice them into bits before they could make contact? I have the same question about Battlecruisers, which are the total antithesis of scourge. They fire so slowly that I don't know how they aren't powder by the time that they really hurt a carrier. Is their armour so thick that interceptors are like bee stings?
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Oct 6, 2023 17:32
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:56 |
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JustJeff88 posted:How are scourge so good at killing carriers? Wouldn't the interceptors just dice them into bits before they could make contact? Interceptors are pretty slow at acquiring targets - it generally takes a second or so, which is more than enough time for scourge to move from out of range to kill range.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:48
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