TIDE megathread: A cameo by the famous "updog"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > TIDE megathread: A cameo by the famous "updog"

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Jerkface posted:

Space Marine 2 looks loving insane (seriously check out SkillUp's gameplay preview or whatever it looks bonkers) but I don't think it is actually a replacement for Darktide because DT nails a completely different aspect of 40k.

I can't wait to have both in my library.

Yeah thematically they are different but I think both do a great job on the visceral aspects of the combat they portray. I was leery of SM2 until I saw SkillUp's gameplay. Eagerly awaiting the game now

# ? Sep 8, 2023 23:10

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:44

Evil Kit: May 29, 2013; I'm viable ladies.

Stanley Pain posted:

Yeah, I think maybe Space Marine 2 will be able to get close to how good DT feels for shootiness and melee.

it's not going to, but not because it's going to be bad, just significantly different. Even Boltgun felt satisfying and fun to play and is more closely comparable, but I wouldn't put them in the same boat because it's a boomer shooter vs a more modern shooter.

I'm really looking forward to SM2 (especially since it's gonna be against my fave faction, 'Nids), but I'm gonna be enjoying it for vastly different reasons than I do Darktide.

# ? Sep 8, 2023 23:15

Dr. Red Ranger: Nov 9, 2011; Nap Ghost

I'm actually just a scoche disappointed in the SM2 footage because after Darktide watching whole squads of AM troopers evaporate the instant any Tyranids show up on screen was disappointing. I keep hoping it's more of a Halo situation where your lowly rescued marines/Imperial Guard can actually pick up weapons and fight with you relatively effectively instead of just being redshirts.

# ? Sep 8, 2023 23:17

Evil Kit: May 29, 2013; I'm viable ladies.

Dr. Red Ranger posted:

I'm actually just a scoche disappointed in the SM2 footage because after Darktide watching whole squads of AM troopers evaporate the instant any Tyranids show up on screen was disappointing. I keep hoping it's more of a Halo situation where your lowly rescued marines/Imperial Guard can actually pick up weapons and fight with you relatively effectively instead of just being redshirts.

the Rejects are explicitly benefiting from the Main Character powers of being part of an Inquistor's Retinue, and the chaos incursion on Atoma at the moment is only a slight notch above "run of the mill heretic mutiny", which is what the guard is designed to deal with. Hell, all the dialogue with the Rejects being like "why we ain't get any space marines guv?" and the response being "because they have better things to do than be here stomping a very minor chaos incursion."

hell, the only reason Atoma is getting the major support from an Inquisitorial retinue that it got in the first place is because it's a significant enough manufacturing world to warrant it. A full on 'Nid invasion is far, far above what's happening on Atoma at the moment.

I can understand the disappointment, but I guess my point is that Darktide is literally the setting in which the IG thrive and deal with by themselves, with the SM2 setting being what Space Marines are primarily meant to show up to help deal with.

# ? Sep 8, 2023 23:38

Owl Inspector: Sep 14, 2011

It�s cool that my little guy in pajamas can blow up 500 bad guys every mission

# ? Sep 8, 2023 23:47

Magitek: Feb 20, 2008; That's not jolly.
That's not jolly at all!

Remember that every Scab we face is a veteran professional soldier, a member of the highly decorated Moebian 6th Regiment. Our dudes can run in and kill a couple dozen of them at once with a knife.

Magitek fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 9, 2023

# ? Sep 9, 2023 00:19

FrancisFukyomama: Feb 4, 2019

Don�t space marines still die to a magdump of bolts to the noggin? Like it isn�t physically impossible for a squad of dudes with plasma rifles and bolters to take down a chaos marine

# ? Sep 9, 2023 00:23

megane: Jun 20, 2008

How tough space marines are largely depends on which book you're looking at and varies from "they die to a few good boltgun hits" to "the planet could be vaporized under their feet and they would be mildly bruised"

# ? Sep 9, 2023 00:24

DoctorRobert: Jan 20, 2020

Evil Kit posted:

it's not going to, but not because it's going to be bad, just significantly different. Even Boltgun felt satisfying and fun to play and is more closely comparable, but I wouldn't put them in the same boat because it's a boomer shooter vs a more modern shooter.

I'm really looking forward to SM2 (especially since it's gonna be against my fave faction, 'Nids), but I'm gonna be enjoying it for vastly different reasons than I do Darktide.

Going to be getting it just to try modding Karl Kopinskis tyranid art style in. The pics from the first few bid codexes are very rad

# ? Sep 9, 2023 00:32

Dr. Red Ranger: Nov 9, 2011; Nap Ghost

Evil Kit posted:

I can understand the disappointment, but I guess my point is that Darktide is literally the setting in which the IG thrive and deal with by themselves, with the SM2 setting being what Space Marines are primarily meant to show up to help deal with.

That's all fair. I guess it's just more entertaining to me and more, I dunno, congruent with my expectations of a professional military used to fighting star system scale existential engagements. It's more fun to me if they occasionally get to do rad things and show moments of competence before the game brutally reminds you of why you got called in in the first place. Moments that you would remember if you were playing as them instead, like that setpiece where the chimera crushes an entire swarm of hormagaunts under it's treads by running down a hallway.

You could even have cool 80's buddy action scenes too. Say an early mission involves relieving a badly mauled platoon on the front line that's about to collapse, then later on you have to go behind enemy lines for a mcguffin but get trapped in a last stand scenario. You're out of health stims, out of grenades, and on your last clip of bolter ammo fighting through neverending swarms of bugs when a Carnifex turns the corner. Camera backs up to center it, the Carnifex roars, and then it's head evaporates as that platoon and supporting armor arrive to return the favor. Ideally with the now-eyepatch sporting Sargeant saying some ludicrously British, pithy remark like "Rescue? You!? Wouldn't dream of it sir. Merely providing fire support, sir".

Dr. Red Ranger fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Sep 9, 2023

# ? Sep 9, 2023 00:41

Evil Kit: May 29, 2013; I'm viable ladies.

Dr. Red Ranger posted:

That's all fair. I guess it's just more entertaining to me and more, I dunno, congruent with my expectations of a professional military used to fighting star system scale existential engagements. It's more fun to me if they occasionally get to do rad things and show moments of competence before the game brutally reminds you of why you got called in in the first place. Moments that you would remember if you were playing as them instead, like that setpiece where the chimera crushes an entire swarm of hormagaunts under it's treads by running down a hallway.

You could even have cool 80's buddy action scenes too. Say an early mission involves relieving a badly mauled platoon on the front line that's about to collapse, then later on you have to go behind enemy lines for a mcguffin but get trapped in a last stand scenario. You're out of health stims, out of grenades, and on your last clip of bolter ammo fighting through neverending swarms of bugs when a Carnifex turns the corner. Camera backs up to center it, the Carnifex roars, and then it's head evaporates as that platoon and supporting armor arrive to return the favor. Ideally with the now-eyepatch sporting Sargeant saying some ludicrously British, pithy remark like "Rescue? You!? Wouldn't dream of it sir. Merely providing fire support, sir".

I mean hey, you might just get it! We'll find out when the game hits.

# ? Sep 9, 2023 04:02

Lassitude: Oct 21, 2003

It'd be a bit of a waste to make a Chaos marine just another bullet sponge. Given how slow/tough they're meant to be it'd probably be a good opportunity for more of a set-piece boss fight. Something you need to use the environment to kill. Did people enjoy those in VT2? Having to hit the chains and drop the bell, that kind of thing?

The SM2 clips show the guardsmen pretty overwhelmingly outnumbered. I think the expectation is that those planets you fight on in that game will fall to the 'nids, and Titus and Co. are just there to do Solblade stuff and assassinate synapse creatures, or rescue a VIP/recover a mcguffin, or etc.. Probably not really meant defeat the tyranids or save the guardsmen's lives.

# ? Sep 9, 2023 13:54

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Im glad the tanks and poo poo seem to be helping at least. Was annoying in DT to just see them static doing nothing

# ? Sep 9, 2023 17:36

Ra Ra Rasputin: Apr 2, 2011

One thing Fatshark needs to do better on are the finales, so many are too samey or stop specials from spawning or can be solved by sitting in a safe spot or chopping up the horde by swinging at a closed door before they can get through.

# ? Sep 9, 2023 18:41

Fishstick: Jul 9, 2005; Does not require preheating

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

One thing Fatshark needs to do better on are the finales, so many are too samey or stop specials from spawning or can be solved by sitting in a safe spot or chopping up the horde by swinging at a closed door before they can get through.

"Hey Devs we need something for an end event"
- "Hmm... how about a circular arena with a pit in the middle and an outside border?"

# ? Sep 10, 2023 10:08

TwatHammer: Sep 29, 2014

New hotfix is out and oh boy did we get :fatshark:

# ? Sep 15, 2023 04:10

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

oh baby!!!

# ? Sep 15, 2023 04:19

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Dead game...

# ? Sep 15, 2023 04:36

Ra Ra Rasputin: Apr 2, 2011

Bespoke game.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 04:39

big cummers ONLY: Jul 17, 2005; I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

TwatHammer posted:

New hotfix is out and oh boy did we get

# ? Sep 15, 2023 07:34

Fishstick: Jul 9, 2005; Does not require preheating

TwatHammer posted:

New hotfix is out and oh boy did we get

No way to prevent this, says only developer where this keeps happening

# ? Sep 15, 2023 07:54

TwatHammer: Sep 29, 2014

One day they'll figure it out.

Maybe.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 08:30

BeeSeeBee: Oct 25, 2007

There's also a beneficial bug right now.

If you spend plasteel or diamantine upgrading a weapon, and then go to the psykhanium, do a mission, or change operative and log back into your character, once you're back on the Mourningstar, you get about 80% of it refunded. So get in while the gettings good

BeeSeeBee fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 16, 2023

# ? Sep 16, 2023 05:16

Fishstick: Jul 9, 2005; Does not require preheating

BeeSeeBee posted:

So get in while the gettings good

About that

Didnt make it out of character select this time. Great to see the progress after a year.

# ? Sep 16, 2023 09:02

Evil Kit: May 29, 2013; I'm viable ladies.

Fishstick posted:

About that

Didnt make it out of character select this time. Great to see the progress after a year.

At this point unless the devs themselves have told you they have no idea what is causing your specific issue I think you need to make a thread in their bug report forums and see if you can get some direct help.

# ? Sep 16, 2023 21:28

Sestze: Jun 6, 2004; Cybernetic Crumb

Fishstick posted:

About that

Didnt make it out of character select this time. Great to see the progress after a year.

you can reduce worker threads to 1, I found that solved my crashing issues.

# ? Sep 16, 2023 21:56

Yolomon Wayne: Jun 10, 2014; You call it "The Big Bang", but what really happened is; Grimey Drawer

Still playing VT2 a whole lot, but just recently felt the itch for some VT1.

Gotta say, the map and mission design feels WORLDS better in VT1, as is the color palette which hosts more than a constant greyish greenbrown.

Whole problem is the reward design in VT2 which prohibits maps like ramparts or black powder since everything needs to have 5 books which makes every map in the game feel essentially the same.
If there were more than 7 people in the world still playing part 1, id probably be too.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 09:30

Jerkface: May 21, 2001; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/dev-blog-class-overhaul/82971

quote:

Hello Devoted Rejects!
My name is Mats Andersson, also known as the resident Combat guy, Lead Combat Designer or just �Ratherdone� around the interwebs. I�d like to tell the story of the Darktide team�s new take on classes and all the player choice and build availability that comes with it. This update is the result of a wide collaboration throughout the project as changing the core of what defines a player character has far-reaching implications on many parts of the game.

First off, we�ve always looked at Darktide as a game where you define your own character and play style. Much more so than in our previous tide-games. The idea that we�d be less prescriptive in the way we present who you play always has some friction with the class system. It is just natural that presenting a class, full with loadout restrictions, abilities and talent packages, comes with a heavy lore-package and a specific �you�re choosing to play THIS GUY�. We wanted to change that. We wanted to make the character creation stretch further into build choices and loadout configurations. We wanted you to be able to pick and choose and define your own main character using any and all combinations of gameplay and cosmetic choices available. The whole �forge your own narrative� taken to a very personal level.

Now, we also wanted to just widen the available builds and play styles. So for those of you who aren�t really that heavy into the lore or characterization, there is a heavy focus on just adding more game to explore.

So we made big, complex talent trees with lots of build freedom. We�ve expanded each class and raised the perspective a bit. The Sharpshooter is now just one of the builds available within the Veteran tree. This shift in class definition helps us give you guys some more freedom in picking your build while keeping the design space nice and open for us. We�ve internally talked about the different trees rather as �domains� than �classes�, striving for that broader range of sources. So, a character from the Veteran domain can be anything from a sharpshooter to a squad leader to more commando/spec ops type character and anything in between. It also allows us a nice freedom to add or change stuff in the future as there�s plenty of stuff that fit within these broader categories.

Within the talent trees you can keep things �by the book� and go for some more conservative builds, like recreating the current Preacher class within the Zealot space; or you can be a bit more unorthodox and forge your own character with a mix of picks as you navigate across the talent tree. Want to make a team supporting fanatic that bolsters the team with invigorating prayers while dipping into the mobility and knife-tossing mayhem that the deathcult side of our Zealot tree provides? Go right ahead. It�s your character, it�s your story, it�s your choice.

So that�s the main idea. The tricky thing with ideas is that you also have to realize them and somehow build all of this. We approached this with a couple of different approaches. On the practical side of things we started out with just slapping together a bunch of build-packages for each Class. Quickly staple a bunch of buffs and bonuses together with combinations of new and old Blitz and Combat abilities. Some rapid prototyping, some reanimation of old and forgotten feature-tests, some scavenging throughout the code base later we had a solid library of around 30 builds up and running on internal tests.

There�s also a fairly high-brow academic approach to this whole design-space, mainly consisting of designers trying their best to cosplay some kind of intellectual ludologist while defining gestalts, inter-play cooperation and the whole actions-into-moves mapping. In short, doing some paper design where we guess (real accurately) which power fantasies and gameplay roles we can cover, and how they�ll rotate to allow everyone their moment in the sun while keeping some variation in the gameplay. There have been fairly large parts of this theoretical map that we didn�t cover with the original classes. Mainly the area of team support, which brings a much needed cooperation loop into the moment-to-moment gameplay. There�s also parts of our roster that just lacked coverage for certain playstyles (shooty Ogryn anyone?).

Equipped with this set of builds and a theoretical map of what we�d need to cover we set about playtesting. It�s only after we�ve tried things in-game that we actually started building the trees themselves. This might seem counterintuitive, but we really didn�t want to end up in the �the tree demands there to be X amount of buffs/choices� but rather allow what made sense for the game to direct the format of the trees. The old feat layout, for instance, mandates that we construct six rows of three interchangeable options for everything, which can be restrictive and make cool ideas fall short. With a new ruleset that allows for much more freedom we can instead change the trees to fit the cool stuff we want to add.

Now, here�s where things become tricky from a balancing perspective. We broke down our premade builds into their components and spread them out across the emerging tree-structures. We wanted there to be clear and easily identifiable options here, portrayed by a branching end of the trees. So new players or less tinkering-prone ones can just click their way down and have a nice build to play. However, we also wanted there to be a tinkering space where less obvious combinations of choices create their own build packages. The principle of �the udder and the teats� was born. It�s a very cow-based metaphor and perhaps not the most sensible one but it worked. Higher up in the talent trees, within the �udder�, players are free to tinker and pick their path, narrow or broad. Lower down in the tree we branch out in the key-stone �teats�, which provide a more single-path deep-dive into particular buff sets. We also wanted each tree to be free from restrictive layout rules and provide their own, individual tinkering spaces. So some trees have larger udders while some have longer teats. If we wanted to make another tree with like five teats that would be ok too. These are some grimdark cows we�re modeling after so creative freedom is intact.

The different nodes available within each talent tree are of the following different types:

Blitz ability: The grenade slot or other type of extra attack.

Combat ability: The ult, bound by cooldown and high impact on game.

Keystone: More iconic talents, varies between the trees but drive playstyle.

Talent: Interactive buffs that tie into core gameplay loops

Aura: Various team buffs spread as Coherency bonus.

Stat node: Simple flat bonus to a core stat (toughness/crit chance/health)

Currently we settled in on a three blitz, three combat ability and three keystone configuration per talent tree, with a varied assortment of talents and stat nodes to provide the core of the tinkering space. The inclusion of stat nodes also allows us to bring a previously hardcoded baseline into player control. Where starting values for health, crit chance, toughness etc is just that, a starting point that is subsequently boosted through picking stat nodes within each talent tree. As for the size of trees and unlocking of points, we�re trying to keep it simple. You�ll earn one talent point per level and players are free to re-spec at any time, landing us on a total budget of 30 points to spend on each talent tree. One core principle we�ve tried to follow is you should be able to reach an end-node around the 20-point mark and then have some change to tinker with.

This whole endeavor does have quite a heavy impact on the game balance and thus warranted a wider take to make everything play nice together. We�ve shifted baseline difficulty scales, re-tuned healthpools for enemies, tuned spawning limits and rebalanced core parts of our damage system as part of our test-driven approach. What�s the point of having suppression bonuses in a talent tree if everything is already immediately suppressed, or worse: dead. Same goes for builds with a heavier emphasis on backstabs and flanking shots, which warranted an overhaul on how we stack our damage multipliers. This work has also included some deep dives into the weapon and blessing space, since we view a full build loadout as the sum total of your weapons, curios and talent choices. Brutal momentum is one example of a blessing that has changed to fit snugly into the whole system; it now discounts any targets killed with a clean weakspot hit - allowing you to loop as many heads off as you manage to line up with the right build to back it up.

With the new talent trees come a range of new features. On the blitz side, to name a few, we�ve got krak grenades, flame grenades, homing magic missiles and pretty rocks the Ogryn will find throughout his adventures that just happen to be very useful if hurled at nasty traitors. On the combat ability side you will find taunting, stealth mechanics, warp shields, stances and shouts to tailor your operatives build from a team support pillar to a murderous whirlwind of dps and anything in between.

We�ll return with more in depth looks at the different talent trees and their configuration in the near future. We have been continuously testing and tweaking as we have moved closer to release, both internally and together with playtesters from the community. The amount of builds that have emerged and minute finetuning of all the components that enable them have been a pleasure to explore and an interesting challenge to balance. One of the key reasons we made this change is to allow fast iterations and change, we hope to continue evolving the classes and the game together with you.

The Darktide Team

Big talky dev post about their process of overhauling the classes - we're getting close to launch and I can't wait to dive back in to this!

# ? Sep 21, 2023 18:21

Captainicus: Feb 22, 2013

I know they're going to fatshark it somehow but man I hope this update is vaguely playable and function when released, it sounds exactly like what this game needs

# ? Sep 21, 2023 18:26

ChickenHeart: Nov 28, 2007; Take me at your own risk.; Kiss From a Hog

Either way playing a Deathcult maniac chucking knives everywhere sounds like a good time

# ? Sep 21, 2023 18:30

thebardyspoon: Jun 30, 2005

I need to see an example of one I think, like obviously loads of games do talent trees so it's not like I can't imagine the concept, I just need to see what Fatshark considers 3 or so distinct, meaningful and interesting playstyles for all 4 classes.

Annoyingly I really enjoyed the gameplay of the base game, just felt this was exactly what it needed for variety and longevity, it probably should have launched with it and it's baffling they didn't. Unfortunately, I suspect my friends are unlikely to want to jump back in or take the plunge and actually buy it now just because the initial launch was so underwhelming in their eyes.

It needs to come out and work as well of course, that's quite important.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 18:40

big cummers ONLY: Jul 17, 2005; I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

While I would prefer new maps, enemies, and better finales, good talent trees are good, and will being me back for a bit. If they don't reaaaally result in big changes to how you gear up or play the game, idk how long it will keep me.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 18:52