War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

The Ukrainians Are Using Their MRAP Armored Trucks in Direct Assaults On Russian Positions

quote:

Albania is donating to Ukraine 22 of its American-made MaxxPro armored trucks. It�s one small arms transfer among many in a wider war that, in 20 months of hard fighting, has seen thousands of vehicles change hands.

But these 15-ton, eight-person, machine-gun-armed MaxxPros are special. They and other so-called �Mine-Resistant Ambush-Protected� trucks, or MRAPs, are favorites of Ukrainian forces. Where other armies tend to assign their MRAPs to infantry brigades as battlefield transports�but not as front-line fighting vehicles�the Ukrainians tuck them behind the tanks and send them directly into battle.

And for good reason. There are scores of MRAP designs, but most of them have one thing in common: thickly-armored hulls with V-shaped bottoms and big, fat tires that elevate the vehicles. These qualities work together to protect an MRAP�s occupants from mine blasts, and other explosions, coming from below.

It just so happens that Russian mines are among the greatest dangers facing attacking Ukrainian troops. Thus an MRAP�s ability to resist a mine blast makes it more survivable on a Ukrainian battlefield than is, say, a tracked infantry fighting vehicle. Even if that IFV is heavier than a typical armored truck is.

A traditional IFV might have better mobility than a wheeled MRAP does over soft ground�and it might also boast greater firepower, thanks to its armored turret and heavy autocannon. But Ukrainian forces�in particular, marines and air-assault troops�seem willing to trade cross-country mobility and firepower for protection.

The Ukrainian armed forces so far have received from their foreign allies around 1,200 MRAPs�and to date have lost around 200 of them in battle. MRAPs are the third-most-numerous type of vehicle, after light trucks and tracked personnel carriers, that Ukraine has received as aid.

This in part is an accident of circumstance. The United States and its closest allies, during their heights of their counterinsurgency campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan in the late 2000s and early 2010s, developed and deployed tens of thousands of MRAPs�specifically to mitigate the risk from insurgents� roadside bombs.

As the counterinsurgency campaigns wound down, many thousands of surplus MRAPs went into storage. It was a simple matter for many NATO countries to replace the batteries and seals in a few hundred 15-year-old MRAPs and ship them off to Ukraine�far simpler than, for example, finding functioning main battle tanks for onward transfer to Ukraine.

Serendipitously, this MRAP windfall met changing circumstances in Russia�s wider war on Ukraine. As the front line stabilized last fall and the Ukrainians signaled their coming counteroffensive, the Russians dug in. The Kremlin�s engineers excavated three main trenchlines across southern Ukraine�and seeded the ground in front of and between them with hundreds of thousands of mines.

All of the sudden, Ukrainian forces needed vehicles that could withstand mine blasts. Lots of them. Today, maybe a third of Kyiv�s roughly 100 ground combat brigades have a battalion of 30 MRAPs. Almost all of the dozen or so air-assault and marine brigades have armored trucks.

The marines and independent air-assault forces have been eager MRAP-users. The entire Ukrainian marine corps�four brigades plus supporting units�has been fighting along the Mokri Yaly River Valley in southern Ukraine�s Donetsk Oblast.

In the three-and-a-half months since launching their counterattack, the marines have developed special tactics blending T-80 tanks and ex-British Mastiff MRAPs in speedy assault columns.

The marines are pleased with their trucks. While talking to a reporter about his unit�s French-made AMX-10RC reconnaissance vehicles�vehicles the Ukrainians admit are too flimsy for direct assaults on Russian defenses�a major with the 37th Marine Brigade went out of his way to praise the brigade�s American- and British-made MRAPs.

The trucks� hoods are a weak spot, the major said, but they can deflect a rocket-propelled grenade everywhere else. "In terms of protection, the vehicle is very cool," he said.

If an MRAP rolls over a mine, "a wheel flies off" but the crew and passengers generally are fine. The same mine would obliterate a BMP fighting vehicle and its occupants, the officer stressed.

The marines also are fond of their MRAPs� high road speed. A well-maintained MaxxPro might reach 70 miles per hour on a paved road, easily outpacing most other combat vehicles.

When the 35th Marine Brigade assaulted Russian positions in Makarivka in the Mokri Yaly River Valley in June, its T-80 tanks and ex-British Mastiff MRAPs led the way.

The trucks speeded right past Russian trenches, leaving them to the tanks to suppress. This confused and terrified the bypassed Russians. �They didn�t expect such speed from us, going on Mastiffs,� one marine noted after the 35th rolled into Makarivka.

The high speed that an MRAP�s wheels confer on hardened surfaces belies the utter disaster that can befall an MRAP on soft ground. The Ukraine army�s 47th Mechanized Brigade famously abandoned a bunch of MaxxPros in a muddy minefield south of Mala Tokmachka, in southern Ukraine�s Zaporizhzhia Oblast, the first week of June.

Around the same time, a quartet of Ukrainian brigades�the army�s 23rd and 32nd Mechanized and a pair of territorial brigades�staged a cross-country assault on the Russian garrison in Novodarivka, 40 miles east of Mala Tokmachka. The brigades� T-64 tanks managed the soft ground, but the MaxxPros got stuck.

To liberate Novodarivka, the Ukrainians had to leave behind their vehicles�and attack on foot. The lesson was clear: MaxxPros and other MRAPs work great in combined-arms formations with tanks. Even in direct assaults on Russian positions. Especially when the main threat is mines. But only where there are roads or the ground is firm enough for big, fat tires.

Surely no one involved in the development of MRAPs back in the mid-2000s expected the vehicles to replace tracked IFVs in combined-arms operations. But then, probably no one expected the Ukrainian army to fight a mechanized offensive campaign across some of the densest minefields anyone has seen in generations.

The 1,200 MRAPs Ukraine�s allies so far have donated to the war effort represent just a fraction of the MRAPs they have in their inventories. Expect hundreds more MRAPs to make their way to Ukraine. And expect the Ukrainians to make good use of them.

on one hand it makes sense that a vehicle designed to resist mines and roadside ieds would have certain advantages dealing with the russian defenses. on the other hand i remember at certain points during the first year of the war when it was not uncommon to see ukrainian squads being moved to the front on pickup trucks spray painted tan and green, and after that i think any kind of hardened vehicle is going to get rave reviews

either way, it's yet another reminder of the role mud has played and continues to play in this war. a through line of mud ruining generals and foot soldiers in a millenia long through line from agincourt to waterloo to passchendaele to today

# ? Sep 21, 2023 02:39

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:36

HolHorsejob: Mar 14, 2020; Portrait of Cheems II of Spain by Jabona Neftman, olo pint on fird

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

The Ukrainians Are Using Their MRAP Armored Trucks in Direct Assaults On Russian Positions

on one hand it makes sense that a vehicle designed to resist mines and roadside ieds would have certain advantages dealing with the russian defenses. on the other hand i remember at certain points during the first year of the war when it was not uncommon to see ukrainian squads being moved to the front on pickup trucks spray painted tan and green, and after that i think any kind of hardened vehicle is going to get rave reviews

either way, it's yet another reminder of the role mud has played and continues to play in this war. a through line of mud ruining generals and foot soldiers in a millenia long through line from agincourt to waterloo to passchendaele to today

Mine-Resistant, Ambush-Providing vehicle

quote:

The trucks speeded right past Russian trenches, leaving them to the tanks to suppress. This confused and terrified the bypassed Russians. �They didn�t expect such speed from us, going on Mastiffs,� one marine noted after the 35th rolled into Makarivka.

Jesus loving christ, I cannot imagine those experiencing those few minutes after 10 MRAPs fly right past your trench. Just counting down the seconds until tank shells to land on top of you.

HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Sep 21, 2023

# ? Sep 21, 2023 06:02

Griefor: Jun 11, 2009

radmonger posted:

The thing is, the one thing the Russian state is really good at is killing people like Elon. Even the US couldn’t really protect him, only retaliate afterwards.

Hardly a surprise he is doing his best to appease them.

Is there a precedent for this? There have been some terrifying assassinations of Russians who were seen by their government as traitors but AFAIK those have always been limited to Russian/Soviet citizens because assassinating citizens of other countries on their native soil would be a massive escalation. Russia eliminating western billionaires seems like a terrible idea to me (which doesn't always stop them, I know).

# ? Sep 21, 2023 06:36

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Griefor posted:

Is there a precedent for this? There have been some terrifying assassinations of Russians who were seen by their government as traitors but AFAIK those have always been limited to Russian/Soviet citizens because assassinating citizens of other countries on their native soil would be a massive escalation. Russia eliminating western billionaires seems like a terrible idea to me (which doesn't always stop them, I know).

Elon should be worrying more about UKR intelligence agencies after the Tsarlink bullshit.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 07:35

d64: Jan 15, 2003

Latest news in the grain fight is Morawiecki said Poland will no longer arm Ukraine. That's a change of heart since Poland has been the largest contributor per gdp after the Baltic countries.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/pole...15-6b888f019650

I don't think this is the last of this issue but it's a wake up call to those who think support for Ukraine is above national politics and election year opportunism.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 09:38

Glah: Jun 21, 2005

d64 posted:

Latest news in the grain fight is Morawiecki said Poland will no longer arm Ukraine. That's a change of heart since Poland has been the largest contributor per gdp after the Baltic countries.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/pole...15-6b888f019650

I don't think this is the last of this issue but it's a wake up call to those who think support for Ukraine is above national politics and election year opportunism.

I wonder if it is related to the grain dispute or more to the fact that Poland has probably given all the military materiel it had in store that it could part with without starting to effect their own military readiness too much?

# ? Sep 21, 2023 09:53

Rugz: Apr 15, 2014; PLS SEE AVATAR. P.S. IM A BELL END LOL

d64 posted:

Latest news in the grain fight is Morawiecki said Poland will no longer arm Ukraine. That's a change of heart since Poland has been the largest contributor per gdp after the Baltic countries.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/pole...15-6b888f019650

I don't think this is the last of this issue but it's a wake up call to those who think support for Ukraine is above national politics and election year opportunism.

quote:

An einer anderen Stelle des Interviews betonte Morawiecki, dass die Regierung in Warschau keinesfalls die Sicherheit der Ukraine gef�hrden werde. �Unser Drehkreuz in Rzeszow wird im Einvernehmen mit den Amerikanern und der Nato weiterhin die gleiche Rolle spielen wie bisher und auch in Zukunft�, versicherte er. �ber die Stadt Rzeszow im S�dosten Polens l�uft ein Gro�teil der westlichen Milit�rhilfe f�r die Ukraine in deren Abwehrkampf gegen den Aggressor Russland.

Looks like support is still strong

# ? Sep 21, 2023 09:58

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

Thought Poland had ceased Ukrainian arms supplies as they now had to reinvest into their own armed forces.... patriot batteries ain't free.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 10:42

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Just Another Lurker posted:

Thought Poland had ceased Ukrainian arms supplies as they now had to reinvest into their own armed forces.... patriot batteries ain't free.

Yes, that's the official Polish line, anyway. They still do give money and promise to give more.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 11:58

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Poland has parliamentary elections in 3 weeks. Expect a lot of dumb news from here during that time. It's surprising Zelensky has stoop to their level, but he's under extreme amounts of stress for the last 1,5 years.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 12:40

radmonger: Jun 6, 2011

Griefor posted:

Is there a precedent for this? There have been some terrifying assassinations of Russians who were seen by their government as traitors but AFAIK those have always been limited to Russian/Soviet citizens because assassinating citizens of other countries on their native soil would be a massive escalation. Russia eliminating western billionaires seems like a terrible idea to me (which doesn't always stop them, I know).

A rather large number of healthy UK citizens who did things like act as lawyers for Putin�s enemies have died within a rather short time window of taking on the job.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil

I�m not aware of any comparably clear cases of assassinations of full US citizens, but what would the White House do if there was one? Nuke Moscow?

# ? Sep 21, 2023 12:49

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

radmonger posted:

A rather large number of healthy UK citizens who did things like act as lawyers for Putin�s enemies have died within a rather short time window of taking on the job.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil

I�m not aware of any comparably clear cases of assassinations of full US citizens, but what would the White House do if there was one? Nuke Moscow?

Are you out of your loving mind?

# ? Sep 21, 2023 13:18

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

This assassinations talk so far is pure speculations (especially regarding a certain dipshit billionaire) so you should probably stop.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 13:24

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

alex314 posted:

Poland has parliamentary elections in 3 weeks. Expect a lot of dumb news from here during that time. It's surprising Zelensky has stoop to their level, but he's under extreme amounts of stress for the last 1,5 years.

Ohh.. that puts lots of things in context, many thanks. :tipshat:

# ? Sep 21, 2023 13:29

RoyKeen: Jul 24, 2007; Grimey Drawer

fatherboxx posted:

This assassinations talk so far is pure speculations (especially regarding a certain dipshit billionaire) so you should probably stop.

I did not see any speculation regarding a dipshit Billionaire. Maybe I missed it. That said, I'd be ok with such speculations regarding specific dipshit billionaires (wink wink) and emperially the world would be a better place and suppressing such thoughts just supports dipshit billionaires.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 21, 2023 13:52

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

Griefor posted:

Is there a precedent for this? There have been some terrifying assassinations of Russians who were seen by their government as traitors but AFAIK those have always been limited to Russian/Soviet citizens because assassinating citizens of other countries on their native soil would be a massive escalation. Russia eliminating western billionaires seems like a terrible idea to me (which doesn't always stop them, I know).

Well apparently India assassinated a Canadian citizen in Canada so I don't know why Russia would hesitate.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 21, 2023 14:03

Back Hack: Jan 17, 2010

Fidelitious posted:

Well apparently India assassinated a Canadian citizen in Canada so I don't know why Russia would hesitate.

Because the US tends to retaliate, violently.

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# ? Sep 21, 2023 14:21

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

Zelenskyy was in DC today after the UNGA and Security Council addresses yesterday. Instead of addressing a joint session like he did last time he spoke to the entire Senate off the chamber floor and was not invited to speak to the House at all.

e: though he did meet with various House members

Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 21, 2023

# ? Sep 21, 2023 20:21

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

He was not invited because everybody knew a small number of hard right republicans would embarrass everybody involved

# ? Sep 21, 2023 20:37

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

There is a solid double-digit % chance of Lauren Boebert calling him �commie Jew� on the floor.

And that�s just her.

# ? Sep 21, 2023 20:43

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

From the Politico article I meant to link in my post before getting distracted:

quote:

As the Ukrainian leader arrived, a group of 28 congressional Republicans released a letter reiterating that they oppose further aid to the country's defense against Russian aggression. It�s a far cry for the raucous and warm reception Zelenskyy got during his joint session to Congress in December, before the GOP took power in the House.

Critics of further Ukraine aid left the meeting saying Zelenskyy made a passionate case but that they were unmoved.

�His comment was, �It's a totally frozen conflict,�� Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), an aid opponent who attended the meeting, told POLITICO. �And I think his other comment was �Everything depends on the United States.� Sounds more and more sort of like Vietnam in the day to me, if I�m going to be honest. So what he said was basically a recipe for just shy of needing to land American troops.�

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said the visit provided an opportunity for senators to get answers to lingering questions and that Zelenskyy ultimately �made a good case.�

But asked if that case was good enough to win over skeptics within his conference, Cornyn replied, �Some of the skeptics weren't there.�

Also doesn't help that the US government is very likely headed for a shutdown in a little more than a week.

e; as should be clear from that comment Hawley is widely regarded as the second-dumbest man in the Senate, only eclipsed by Tuberville.

Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 21, 2023

# ? Sep 21, 2023 20:48

Yureina: Apr 28, 2013; Yeap. I found this out recently. Really turns me off the Palestinian cause to find out they basically consist entirely of raging racists.

Moon Slayer posted:

From the Politico article I meant to link in my post before getting distracted:

Also doesn't help that the US government is very likely headed for a shutdown in a little more than a week.

e; as should be clear from that comment Hawley is widely regarded as the second-dumbest man in the Senate, only eclipsed by Tuberville.

It really is a race to the bottom for who can be the dumbest congressman in the US, isn't it?

# ? Sep 22, 2023 00:56

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Always has been

# ? Sep 22, 2023 01:32

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

new $325 million military aid package announced by white house. no atacms, mostly seems focused on sustainment, lots of additional ammunition for different systems. includes the second delivery of 155mm cluster rounds

quote:

AIM-9M missiles for air defense
Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS)
Avenger air defense systems
.50 caliber machine guns to counter Unmanned Aerial Systems
155mm artillery rounds, including DPICM
105mm artillery rounds
Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles
Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems
Over 3m rounds of small arms ammunition
59 light tactical vehicles
Demolitions munitions for obstacle clearing
Spare parts, maintenance, and other field equipment

i feel like we hear a lot about gepards, nasams, and patriots in tightening ukrainian air defense. it's an older system, but i've been a bit surprised that i've heard absolutely nothing about the performance of the avengers since the us started supplying them earlier this year. it joins the hawk in the unmentioned category where i wonder if they are filling gaps and contributing some defense, or basically not effective for whatever reason

# ? Sep 22, 2023 06:51

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

The number of Stinger videos has gone down a lot as well. I'd assume that most of the action has moved out of the effective range of Avengers. That doesn't mean they are useless, there's a reason threats aren't in Stinger range any more after all.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 08:04

Dirt5o8: Nov 6, 2008; EUGENE? Where's my fuckin' money, Eugene?

Avengers sit in the "close air protection" part of the defense bubble. They make their money with moving formations on the attack or in hasty defenses when enemy aircraft are most active.

I have no experience with them as part of a static network so can't comment on that part.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 09:02

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Close anti-air weaponry is also effective if not a single shot it fired because it has forced CAS to stay out of range.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 09:42

Szarrukin: Sep 29, 2021

d64 posted:

Latest news in the grain fight is Morawiecki said Poland will no longer arm Ukraine. That's a change of heart since Poland has been the largest contributor per gdp after the Baltic countries.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/pole...15-6b888f019650

I don't think this is the last of this issue but it's a wake up call to those who think support for Ukraine is above national politics and election year opportunism.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/poland-says-it-s-still-supplying-ukraine-with-weapons?leadSource=reddit_wall

It has already been retraced, also both Poland and Ukraine started looking for solution to solve that idiotic grain kerfuffle. Both happened right after Russian ministry of foreign affairs praised Polish president for his actions. Nice job fixing it, villain.

Szarrukin fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Sep 22, 2023

# ? Sep 22, 2023 10:17

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

Szarrukin posted:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/poland-says-it-s-still-supplying-ukraine-with-weapons?leadSource=reddit_wall

It has already been retraced, also both Poland and Ukraine started looking for solution to solve that idiotic grain kerfuffle. Both happened right after Russian ministry of foreign affairs praised Polish president for his actions. Nice job fixing it, villain.

I'm honestly very confused by this messaging by the Polish PM. When they originally said they didn't have weapons left and they are fighting with the weapons they have, my thinking was something went lost in translation and the Polish PM was doing some weird strong man talk about how banning Ukrainian grain imports was a "weapon" they had to use to "defend" themselves against dumping prices. But the point got taken totally literally in international media which is probably why they walked back to quickly now.

Basically don't try to be poetic when you're launching a one-paragraph sound byte onto the internet by comparing your weapon shipments with economic measures taken as "weapons" to "defend yourself"

# ? Sep 22, 2023 10:24

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Deltasquid posted:

I'm honestly very confused by this messaging by the Polish PM. When they originally said they didn't have weapons left and they are fighting with the weapons they have, my thinking was something went lost in translation and the Polish PM was doing some weird strong man talk about how banning Ukrainian grain imports was a "weapon" they had to use to "defend" themselves against dumping prices. But the point got taken totally literally in international media which is probably why they walked back to quickly now.

Basically don't try to be poetic when you're launching a one-paragraph sound byte onto the internet by comparing your weapon shipments with economic measures taken as "weapons" to "defend yourself"

Poland is ruled by right wing populists. There's an election soon. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. Having a scapegoat for everything bad is a part of core of populism. That scapegoat being "the other" is a core of right wing populism. Being able to blame economic problems on Ukranian foodstuff imports is just such a simple option here.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 10:30

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

lilljonas posted:

Poland is ruled by right wing populists. There's an election soon. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. Having a scapegoat for everything bad is a part of core of populism. That scapegoat being "the other" is a core of right wing populism. Being able to blame economic problems on Ukranian foodstuff imports is just such a simple option here.

I mean, sure, I get that. I understand the cause of the grain dispute (or, at least, Poland drumming it up on the curb of an election). What I don't understand is the PM's weird take about being out of weapons or otherwise no longer sending weapons to Ukraine. Even to a Polish nationalist that sounds ridiculous and undermines their own nationalistic messaging over the past year. Hence why I think he got carried away in trying to frame the grain deal as some sort of economic warfare fought with lawsuits as "weapons" and the message got completely misinterpreted.

Or maybe he's a moron who really tried to pull the plug on arms aid to Ukraine over this grain spat, and the rest of his party had to scramble to reel him in.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 10:50

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Is there any reliable internal polling in Poland about how they currently feel about supporting Ukraine?

I haven't heard anything recently, and I assume it's still really popular, but close to the election if there was some polling out there saying maybe it's not as popular anymore, particulary amongst what ever demographic they need to win the election that could make sense. Or just polling saying the grain issue was more important than the support Ukraine/anti-russian one.

Politicians do dumb poo poo all the time chasing polls.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 10:55

Dick Ripple: May 19, 2021

In the end Poland and probably most Poles would prefer to have Ukraine on the other side of their border vs Russia or some sort of puppet regime. So them halting new arms shipments until probably the election is over in order to boost support is not going to have a negative long term effect on Ukraines war effort. Hopefully these politicians can stop bickering in front of the cameras and solve these problems quietly.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 11:28

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Black Sea Fleet keeps having bad days

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1705170437150273841?t=YRMh918FQs-aqAQ8p0hsMQ&s=19

# ? Sep 22, 2023 11:51

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

fatherboxx posted:

Black Sea Fleet keeps having bad days

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1705170437150273841?t=YRMh918FQs-aqAQ8p0hsMQ&s=19

sure seems like a lot more things in Crimea are blowing up every day

# ? Sep 22, 2023 13:18

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

eke out posted:

sure seems like a lot more things in Crimea are blowing up every day

Our media reported recently about Ukraine claiming a missile strike hit an army HQ in/near Melitopol. The command post was apparently hidden in a factory hall or something, but someone blabbed and then, missiles.

The constant strikes on Crimea, taken together with the slow progress southwards, makes it definitely look like the Ukrainian armed forces haven't given up on liberating everything in the south, including Crimea.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 14:19

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Wasn't the main reason Crimea was seized was for the ports? How much use are ports if your fleet keeps snacking on missiles and getting meritorious promotions to submarine?

# ? Sep 22, 2023 14:22

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

bird food bathtub posted:

Wasn't the main reason Crimea was seized was for the ports? How much use are ports if your fleet keeps snacking on missiles and getting meritorious promotions to submarine?

No. Main reason was Putin's ego.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 14:23

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

bird food bathtub posted:

Wasn't the main reason Crimea was seized was for the ports? How much use are ports if your fleet keeps snacking on missiles and getting meritorious promotions to submarine?

They already had rights to use Sevastopol. Doing nothing would have been better from a naval perspective.

# ? Sep 22, 2023 14:26

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:36

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

Capital Hill reporters from Punchbowl News sat down with Zelensky while he was in DC and put out some brief highlights in their morning newsletter:

quote:

We had the opportunity to sit down with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Thursday night with a very small group of reporters and editors in D.C.

It was quite the experience � especially since it came after Zelensky was on Capitol Hill meeting with key figures in our core audience, including dozens of senators and Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

Of course, Ukraine funding is one of the most contentious issues before Congress right now.

The tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and humanitarian aid that�s flowed from Washington to Kyiv is in danger of stopping. Case in point � House Republicans may be forced to strip Ukraine money from their version of the FY2024 Defense spending bill in order to get it through the chamber.

For his part, McCarthy signaled that he had a good meeting with Zelensky Thursday. We asked Zelensky for his view on their interaction.

�[McCarthy] said that they will be on our side � it�s not simple � that they will support� Ukraine, Zelensky said.

Here are some more highlights from our talk with Zelensky.

No. 1: Zelensky said Ukrainian forces will retake Bakhmut and two other unnamed cities from the Russians. He also said Ukraine will continue to fight through the winter months, when military operations become much more difficult. Here�s more:

�We can�t stop during the winter. My answer is we will do everything not to stop during difficult days in autumn with not good weather. And in winter. For us � it�s difficult. But we have experience of [the] previous year. It�s the same position like it was at the very beginning of the war.

�I�m not the best person for military in the world. But I know what [Russian President Vladimir] Putin wants. I know it � one of the best persons who understands him very well � 100%. And I knew that he needs [a] pause. Because he really lost people, professional army, lost. They�re dead.�

Zelensky�s confidence that he understands Putin was striking to us.

No. 2: Zelensky is hopeful he�ll get the long-range missiles from the United States that he says Ukraine needs to combat the Russians.

�We have to. I think yes,� Zelensky said. �Because we don�t have another way out.�

No. 3: Zelensky said he had a very positive meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

�I�m happy with [my] meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu. � It�s good for Ukraine. But I really think that is even better for Israel. Because there is a dangerous moment and we have to be very serious with Iran.�

Read between the lines there. Ukraine�s relationship with Israel is slightly complicated by the fact that Israel has close ties to Russia. What Zelensky seems to be saying is that you cannot have a strong relationship with Russia and be an enemy of Iran. Iran is supplying Russian forces with drones and other weapons that are being used against Ukraine.

� Jake Sherman

# ? Sep 22, 2023 16:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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