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leper khan posted:Err sorry, that was Q1 aaaahhhh
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Sep 24, 2023 03:02
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Subjunctive posted:OK, 2022 was $1.39B in revenue, which is more like what I was imagining Amazing how profitable you can be after a couple layoffs.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:02
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leper khan posted:Their licenses for real money gaming has been separate since at least unity 4. Their license terms are incredibly predatory. Slots were the group funding Godot prior to the unity fiasco. I don't think I'd use the word 'predatory' for anyone squeezing money out of a slot machine company, no matter how ruthless those terms are. It's a "Let them fight" situation.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:22
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leper khan posted:2021 Financials have 70.4M from create (roughly, the engine licensing), 146.6M from operate (ads, multiplay, etc), and 17.8M from other (partnerships and asset store) Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you were claiming it was unprofitable, it just sounded hard to believe that it was one of their lowest income streams. It’s essentially the App Store model so it seemed like it should be churning out massive returns compared to resources invested. Very surprised to learn that it’s not a significant portion of their revenue, especially compared to the engine side which I assume they operate at a loss for the sake of their other interests.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:39
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Semisomnum posted:Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you were claiming it was unprofitable, it just sounded hard to believe that it was one of their lowest income streams. It’s essentially the App Store model so it seemed like it should be churning out massive returns compared to resources invested.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:59
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Subjunctive posted:OK, 2022 was $1.39B in revenue, which is more like what I was imagining First profitable non-GAAP, which is still basically saying not profitable.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:00
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Foxfire_ posted:I don't think I'd use the word 'predatory' for anyone squeezing money out of a slot machine company, no matter how ruthless those terms are. It's a "Let them fight" situation. So they can go for gatcha?
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Sep 24, 2023 06:20
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nah that's the totally legally distinct, barely obfuscated gambling for children! Totally different!
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Sep 24, 2023 06:44
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It's totally different from gambling because there's not even a slight possibility of getting your money back.
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Sep 24, 2023 07:00
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Foxfire_ posted:I don't think I'd use the word 'predatory' for anyone squeezing money out of a slot machine company, no matter how ruthless those terms are. It's a "Let them fight" situation. It's a shame corporate negotiations aren't to the death. Why did we get so many other aspects of a cyberpunk dystopia but not that one!
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Sep 24, 2023 07:06
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tbf gacha is also different from gambling in that there is a concrete endgoal. unsure if this is better or worse but at least you cant gamble your 5* character on a 6* one and keep chasing forever. note: suggest this idea to someone, become billionaire.
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Sep 24, 2023 07:47
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Endorph posted:tbf gacha is also different from gambling in that there is a concrete endgoal. unsure if this is better or worse but at least you cant gamble your 5* character on a 6* one and keep chasing forever. too late that's what diablo immortal is doing already
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Sep 24, 2023 07:51
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leper khan posted:Amazing how profitable you can be after a couple layoffs. I swear one of their recent "unprofitable" quarters was in part because they spent a bunch of what would have been profit on stock buyback but I don't really want to go digging through unity's financal reports to check where
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Sep 24, 2023 07:54
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A classic from the archives: https://twitter.com/joewintergreen/status/1705501044023922908  
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Sep 24, 2023 08:30
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The Kins posted:A classic from the archives: To be fair to this one, I knew a couple of the people involved with this at unity when it happened and, from what I remember, it was mostly just a lot of internal miscommunication. The employee in the screenshot misread a slack thread that was mostly people not involved in the team in question who were also trying to make sense of the situation. At any rate, that particular person is definitely not someone who would intentionally be trying to gaslight the community to protect the company on Twitter.
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Sep 24, 2023 10:50
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Endorph posted:tbf gacha is also different from gambling in that there is a concrete endgoal. unsure if this is better or worse but at least you cant gamble your 5* character on a 6* one and keep chasing forever. Isnt this somewhat akin to how upgrading in a lot of Korean MMOs work. You have to use your level 5 sword +level 5 upgrade item to have a chance at level 6, but if it fails you lose the level 5 forever. As the level goes up the odds of failing increases, but you can only buy safety from failures not guarantees of success.
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Sep 24, 2023 11:01
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DaveKap posted:As an idiot who has trouble building games but does it anyway, I strongly disagree with this sentiment. The only easy part is downloading it. Yeah this is another one of those 80/20 situations that software dev is full of. You'll get 80% of your features up and running in 20% of the time, and spend the rest dealing with annoying corner cases with bad or non existent documentation, feeling like you're making no progress e: source: I worked on a game that had to be ported from GameCube to Xbox 360
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Sep 24, 2023 12:22
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Barudak posted:Isnt this somewhat akin to how upgrading in a lot of Korean MMOs work. You have to use your level 5 sword +level 5 upgrade item to have a chance at level 6, but if it fails you lose the level 5 forever. As the level goes up the odds of failing increases, but you can only buy safety from failures not guarantees of success. Yeah, Japanese mobile apps pioneered it but some Korean studios quickly adopted gacha game mechanics. I think there's kind of a fuzzy boundary between old school gacha games and mmos because showing off rare/powerful items and ranked ladders are integral to the formula.
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Sep 24, 2023 12:40
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Tarnop posted:Yeah this is another one of those 80/20 situations that software dev is full of. You'll get 80% of your features up and running in 20% of the time, and spend the rest dealing with annoying corner cases with bad or non existent documentation, feeling like you're making no progress I've heard the expression this way: In game dev you spend 80% of the time getting the first 80% working but then for that last 20% it takes 80% of your time.
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Sep 24, 2023 12:50
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Magnetic North posted:I've heard the expression this way: In game dev you spend 80% of the time getting the first 80% working but then for that last 20% it takes 80% of your time. 
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Sep 24, 2023 13:03
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Barudak posted:Isnt this somewhat akin to how upgrading in a lot of Korean MMOs work. You have to use your level 5 sword +level 5 upgrade item to have a chance at level 6, but if it fails you lose the level 5 forever. As the level goes up the odds of failing increases, but you can only buy safety from failures not guarantees of success. Yes. There's a safe level and typically every upgrade beyond that is exponentially more likely to fail. Fruits of the sea posted:Yeah, Japanese mobile apps pioneered it but some Korean studios quickly adopted gacha game mechanics. I think there's kind of a fuzzy boundary between old school gacha games and mmos because showing off rare/powerful items and ranked ladders are integral to the formula. Lmao. No. Korean MMOs have been doing that poo poo since well before the iPhone existed.
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Sep 24, 2023 14:48
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Danakir posted:I would be shocked if Unity didn't lose a lot of business in the coming year over this even after backing down. Lots of people are never going to want to trust them again. Probably isn't the last backdown of the backdowns, neither.
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Sep 24, 2023 15:03
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leper khan posted:Lmao. No. Korean MMOs have been doing that poo poo since well before the iPhone existed. From what I remember, the apps started gaining popularity somewhere in the '00s. But it would be really interesting to find the first example. Would be especially funny if it was actually Korean. Which MMOs were you thinking of?
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Sep 24, 2023 15:03
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Fruits of the sea posted:From what I remember, the apps started gaining popularity somewhere in the '00s. But it would be really interesting to find the first example. Would be especially funny if it was actually Korean. Which MMOs were you thinking of? Looking up the history of monetization in these titles is turning out to be surprisingly difficult. I was thinking of maplestory, ragnarok, etc. They definitely had cash shops, but I can't find when/where they started adding gacha.
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Sep 24, 2023 15:30
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Fruits of the sea posted:From what I remember, the apps started gaining popularity somewhere in the '00s. But it would be really interesting to find the first example. Would be especially funny if it was actually Korean. Which MMOs were you thinking of? I know Ragnarok Online was doing it in 2002 at least. Edit: The origin of gacha predates video games though. They used to be (still are?) physical machines outside convenience stores or whatever that spit out random toys in a capsule. For kids. The word 'gacha' itself is an onomatopoeia of the sound they make. Like 'ka-clunk' or something. Clarste fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 16:37
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Magnetic North posted:I've heard the expression this way: In game dev you spend 80% of the time getting the first 80% working but then for that last 20% it takes 80% of your time. The Kins posted:The expression I heard is that the first 90% takes way less time than the second 90%. These are both very good and very accurate
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Sep 24, 2023 16:45
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imweasel09 posted:First profitable non-GAAP, which is still basically saying not profitable. Haha, I didn’t notice that! Amazing.
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Sep 24, 2023 17:12
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HelixFox posted:At any rate, that particular person is definitely not someone who would intentionally be trying to gaslight the community to protect the company on Twitter. Some of the things being said on twitter make me think of "support agent who just says whatever bullshit to customers to make them stop reopening tickets because the metrics they're judged on are purely response times and number of ticket-reopenings" To also be fair, "authoritatively spouting purestrain bullshit with a hint of blaming the reader" is a hallmark of AI generated responses so who knows bowadays
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Sep 24, 2023 19:34
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Some of the things being said on twitter make me think of "support agent who just says whatever bullshit to customers to make them stop reopening tickets because the metrics they're judged on are purely response times and number of ticket-reopenings" A lot of it is "software engineer with no media training putting their foot in it because they're not expecting to be turned into a Twitter Main Character" (My previous job was for Unity and I worked at the same office as the customer support team and I can assure you they have no interest in engaging with the community any more than they have to for their jobs haha)
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Sep 24, 2023 19:53
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Endorph posted:tbf gacha is also different from gambling in that there is a concrete endgoal. unsure if this is better or worse but at least you cant gamble your 5* character on a 6* one and keep chasing forever. There are plenty of gacha games with nearly unlimited "spend limits", especially ones like afk-arena that rely on getting many duplicates of a character to reach full power. Of course these games tend to be miserable to actually play but they usually get their hooks in enough players to stay profitable anyways. For example it has two ultra-rare factions called "celestials" and "hypogeans" in a separate "stargazing" gacha, where it costs an average of 25,000 gems per character obtained. It takes 24 dupes to fully max one of them out, or 600k diamonds. There are currently 28 of them. The biggest diamond pack in the game is about 13,000 diamonds for 100 USD. So just buying diamond packs and pulling the gacha over and over, if a giga whale wanted to max out all those characters it would cost about $129,000. Plus even more for all the non-stargazer characters in the game. And then the real money they'd pay to speed up leveling all those characters through the super time gated progression mechanics, although that's just mobile-game spending and not "gacha" spending at that point.
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Sep 24, 2023 21:03
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I'm a non-games C++ programmer that dabbles a bit, keeps in touch with the local industry, does the Global Game Jam every so often, that kind of thing. Usually I've mucked around in Unity, so I took a look at Godot. I found some of the FAQ pretty eyebrow-raising, making me wonder if they know what they're doing. quote:Why does Godot not enforce RTTI? quote:Why does Godot not use STL (Standard Template Library)? quote:Why does Godot not use exceptions?  I'm missing something here, right? Are they perhaps talking about their internal engine code, rather than limitations they impose on game code that is called by their engine? That said, Unormal porting Caves of Qud like that does inspire confidence that it's not actually an amateurish shambles. Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 05:04
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Makes me think of the stories about Morrowind on Xbox where it was basically perpetually crashing and loading back in behind the scenes. I’m sure Godot has a good reason(????????)
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Sep 25, 2023 05:07
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Hyperlynx posted:I'm missing something here, right? Are they perhaps talking about their internal engine code, rather than limitations they impose on game code that is called by their engine? I believe this is it, they have to talk about what's allowed for the Godot code itself since people can contribute to it.
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Sep 25, 2023 05:09
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Yes that's about the engine. End users are mostly supposed to use C# or their python fork called GDscript. Godot has the ability to export to html5 to make games that are playable in a web page and for that purpose having a small binary size seems like a big deal. (Of course the developer also needs to optimize their art assets but for pixelly indie games that's not too hard.) I don't see why other usages would care about it though
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Sep 25, 2023 05:14
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Gotcha. That makes sense. Cool. I'm planning to take some time off over Melbourne Games Week next week and make some stuff with it 
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Sep 25, 2023 05:16
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Hyperlynx posted:I'm a non-games C++ programmer that dabbles a bit, keeps on touch with the local industry, does the Global Game Jam every so often, that kind of thing. Usually I've mucked around in Unity, so I took a look at Godot. Don't attribute unormal's design decisions that made qud easy to port to an engine. He could have just as easily ported to roughly any other engine.
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Sep 25, 2023 05:17
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Hyperlynx posted:It seems a bit weird to hand-roll your own typing system to reduce binary size. I thought art/sound/level assets dwarf the binary size, and storage is cheap. Hyperlynx posted:std::string internationalisation is fair enough, but the rest seems weird to me (and again with the smaller binaries thing. Why does that matter?)
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Sep 25, 2023 05:25
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same with exceptions (sorry just wanted to address the points i had high knowledge in first): C++ exceptions are very widely considered super, super bad performantly lol. i dont know all the technical reasons, but there's a famous adage that exceptions don't harm performance so long as they aren't thrown, heheheh
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Sep 25, 2023 05:27
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Lady Radia posted:same with exceptions (sorry just wanted to address the points i had high knowledge in first): C++ exceptions are very widely considered super, super bad performantly lol. i dont know all the technical reasons, but there's a famous adage that exceptions don't harm performance so long as they aren't thrown, heheheh ... that "adage" isn't a joke. There's no cost to a try block.
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Sep 25, 2023 05:38
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leper khan posted:... that "adage" isn't a joke. There's no cost to a try block. it's not funny because it's wrong. it's funny because it hurts a primary use case for exceptions - safely and performantly unwinding the stack in case of a runtime error.
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Sep 25, 2023 05:42
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