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I've got a radiator that I'd like to remove. The room has 2 rads and is usually too hot, also I need the space for a new couch. The radiator is the lowest one in the house (one of two in the basement). I'm planning on having a company come in and cut/cap the pipe from the main line down to the rad. The main line is near the ceiling in the basement, but still exposed. To get all this done, and to take 2/3rd the cost off the quote, I want to drain and fill the system myself. I have a Viessmann Vitodens 100 boiler (not a combi). I've been through the installation/operating manual and I can't find a procedure to drain/refill the system, it mostly shows how to initially get the boiler system online and filled. Can I just turn off the boiler, wait until it's cold, close the fresh water inlet that feeds the system, open a valve on the bottom of the boiler, and drain all the water out? Should I open the bleed valves on all the rads in the house to help the water drain? When the work is done, to refill the system, just do everything in reverse? https://imgur.com/a/7WyoZue
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Sep 21, 2023 17:27
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epswing posted:I've got a radiator that I'd like to remove. The room has 2 rads and is usually too hot, also I need the space for a new couch. The radiator is the lowest one in the house (one of two in the basement). I'm planning on having a company come in and cut/cap the pipe from the main line down to the rad. The main line is near the ceiling in the basement, but still exposed. To get all this done, and to take 2/3rd the cost off the quote, I want to drain and fill the system myself. I have a Viessmann Vitodens 100 boiler (not a combi). Turn off the boiler and any pumps so they aren't running "dry" and damage themselves. Open the the drain-off valve that should be immediately near the boiler, it'll be the same valve you use for refilling the system when the pressure is low. Open the air valves on your radiators(usually used for getting air out of them) so it'll drain more correctly. Note that if the lowest radiator is lower than your boiler, it will only drain partially if at all. When refilling the system, make sure to use the air valves on the radiators to get the air out of them or your system will perform poorly and noisily. It's not really a complicated procedure if you're leaving the radiator removal to the tradesmen.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:16
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PurpleXVI posted:Note that if the lowest radiator is lower than your boiler, it will only drain partially if at all. Heh, yeah, the radiator is lower than the boiler. It's going to be fun filling small pans repeatedly with the water still in the rad. PurpleXVI posted:Open the the drain-off valve that should be immediately near the boiler, it'll be the same valve you use for refilling the system when the pressure is low. In my setup there's an automatic mechanical system to refill when pressure is low, I don't know what it's called exactly, the city water goes through some sort of pressure valve and then through a round tank containing a membrane (the tank is about the size of a bbq propane tank) before leading to the boiler. I'll take a photo when I get home. This part is what I plan to close when draining (obviously so no new water enters the system while draining).
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Sep 21, 2023 20:47
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epswing posted:In my setup there's an automatic mechanical system to refill when pressure is low, I don't know what it's called exactly, the city water goes through some sort of pressure valve and then through a round tank containing a membrane (the tank is about the size of a bbq propane tank) before leading to the boiler. I'll take a photo when I get home. This part is what I plan to close when draining (obviously so no new water enters the system while draining). Your describing an autofill vale and an entirely unrelated to autofill pressure tank. Turn the valve to the "off" position if it has one or turn off the water leading to the valve (hopefully you have a way to do that). Unrelated to your project: I don't like autofill valves. If/when something goes wrong they tends to make damage severe because they just flood your house. I've always left mine off and then maybe once or twice a year I'll hear air in the pipes, turn it on for a few hours/heat cycles and then turn it back off again. If you need to be refilling your system regularly it's broken.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:52
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epswing posted:Heh, yeah, the radiator is lower than the boiler. It's going to be fun filling small pans repeatedly with the water still in the rad. Huh, I've never heard of a system like that being automatic. One thing I had (too much) luck with once was treating the system like a gas tank I wanted to siphon from and giving the hose a little suck to jump-start it and get everything out. But I hosed up and gave it too much of a suck and ended up with a mouth full of radiator water. Blech. Also your "round tank with membrane" is essentially a pressure stabilizer. Half of the tank contains a pressure, the other half the water in your system, so if the water's pressure is low, the membrane pushes against it, and if the water's pressure is too high it expands against the membrane, thus stabilizing small swings.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:54
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Motronic posted:Your describing an autofill vale and an entirely unrelated to autofill pressure tank. Turn the valve to the "off" position if it has one or turn off the water leading to the valve (hopefully you have a way to do that). Yes, I think there's a valve to turn off the water leading to the autofill valve. Motronic posted:Unrelated to your project: I don't like autofill valves. If/when something goes wrong they tends to make damage severe because they just flood your house. I've always left mine off and then maybe once or twice a year I'll hear air in the pipes, turn it on for a few hours/heat cycles and then turn it back off again. If you need to be refilling your system regularly it's broken. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I might start doing that as well. I have a bucket under an overflow pipe coming out of the boiler, which I have to empty every couple months. I don't know too much about this stuff, but I get the impression the autofill hardware is doing something wrong, and excess water is getting into the system (albeit very slowly). epswing fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 20:59
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epswing posted:Yes, I think there's a valve to turn off the water leading to the autofill valve. Yep, there is. Any difference between turning off Valve 1, before the pressure tank, or Valve 2, after it?  What is this thing before the pressure tank? Is that the autofill valve?  Also, what is that "?" thinger?  Here's the bottom of the boiler  Sorry if this is a stupid question, for the drain valve, to the left of the spout it looks like a a flat head inside a hex head. Do I just spin the hex head with a socket wrench to open/close it? 
epswing fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 23:21
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epswing posted:Yep, there is. Yes, close the one past the pressure tank so you aren't also draining the pressure tank. It's fine if you do, it's just more water to drain for no real reason. epswing posted:What is this thing before the pressure tank? Is that the autofill valve? epswing posted:Also, what is that "?" thinger? The reason why you don't need to bother with bleeding at your radiators. Just let the system circulate with the autofill turned on for a few heat cycles. That is a very nice Airtrol air purge valve. It's what you find in nicely built systems. epswing posted:Sorry if this is a stupid question, for the drain valve, to the left of the spout it looks like a a flat head inside a hex head. Do I just spin the hex head to open/close it? The flathead is the "valve" like the spinny thing on a hose bib. If it doesn't want to move easily you should put a wrench on the outside of that (the packing nut) and loosen it a bit. Like 1/8 turn. Then open the valve with a flat head screwdriver, do your thing, close the valve and snug the packing nut back up again.
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Sep 21, 2023 23:44
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Motronic posted:The reason why you don't need to bother with bleeding at your radiators. Just let the system circulate with the autofill turned on for a few heat cycles. That is a very nice Airtrol air purge valve. It's what you find in nicely built systems. My experience is that if a system had these, they either never worked properly, or worked properly once but are now stuck, and we had to bleed the radiators anyway after emptying and refilling the system. I would still suggest double-checking your radiators and not trusting the automatic air purge valve. The one piece I don't recognize out of this, and it may be down to regional/national differences, but the piece immediately before the autofill valve. It can't be the overpressure safety because the autofill appears to be one-way.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:17
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PurpleXVI posted:The one piece I don't recognize out of this, and it may be down to regional/national differences, but the piece immediately before the autofill valve. It can't be the overpressure safety because the autofill appears to be one-way. It's a PRV to drop the incoming domestic water pressure down to system design.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:36
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  "1/2" 9D-M3 Backflow Preventer with Intermediate Atmospheric Vent" 
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Sep 22, 2023 00:48
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epswing posted:"1/2" 9D-M3 Backflow Preventer with Intermediate Atmospheric Vent" Oh yeah, that's important too  Without backflow prevention under the right (i.e. wrong) circumstances all that nasty rusty water from your heating loop could end up back in your fresh water pipes. You may have a PRV elsewhere or it may not be a concern based on your incoming water pressure.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:50
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Motronic posted:Oh yeah, that's important too Ahhh, that'd explain it. Yeah, with the autofill thing, rather than a hose you only attach when you need to manually fill(as it works here), you've got a potential awful way things can go wrong, so a bit of extra safety is good.
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Sep 22, 2023 01:31
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PurpleXVI posted:Ahhh, that'd explain it. Yeah, with the autofill thing, rather than a hose you only attach when you need to manually fill(as it works here), you've got a potential awful way things can go wrong, so a bit of extra safety is good. Add this as another reason why I turn off autofill valves, because both PRVs and backflow preventers go bad, especially in these types of conditions.
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Sep 22, 2023 01:34
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PurpleXVI posted:My experience is that if a system had these, they either never worked properly, or worked properly once but are now stuck, and we had to bleed the radiators anyway after emptying and refilling the system. I would still suggest double-checking your radiators and not trusting the automatic air purge valve. I guess the auto air purge isn't entirely doing it's job, because I generally bleed the rads once a month, and they all have at least a bit of air in them. Speaking of bleeding radiators, the bleed valves are very worn and rounded off (must have been attacked by a screwdriver?). With the system drained, this sounds like my chance to replace them! I'm guessing these are what I'm looking for: https://www.amazon.ca/Radiator-Bleeding-Valve-5-pack/dp/B07K77WCD7 Motronic posted:The flathead is the "valve" like the spinny thing on a hose bib. If it doesn't want to move easily you should put a wrench on the outside of that (the packing nut) and loosen it a bit. Like 1/8 turn. Then open the valve with a flat head screwdriver, do your thing, close the valve and snug the packing nut back up again. Awesome, thanks for all the details! This is honestly going to save me the almost $2k (CAD) Mr Rooter wants for draining/filling the system. The guy justified it by saying it takes a long time to drain/fill, especially because to cap the small line coming out of the main line, he's planning on heating off the 45° and soldering it shut, and it has to be bone dry to solder it. He doesn't want to unthread it because he said with old pipes that usually damages the threads anyways, and there's a wood enclosure that we'd have to remove to get his pipe wrench into position. I don't know how much of this is BS, but it's true that I don't want to remove the enclosure. 
epswing fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Sep 22, 2023 |
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Sep 22, 2023 01:51
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epswing posted:Awesome, thanks for all the details! This is honestly going to save me the almost $2k (CAD) Mr Rooter wants for draining/filling the system. The guy justified it by saying it takes a long time to drain/fill, especially because to cap the small line coming out of the main line, he's planning on heating off the 45° and soldering it shut, and it has to be bone dry to solder it. He doesn't want to unthread it because he said with old pipes that usually damages the threads anyways, and there's a wood enclosure that we'd have to remove to get his pipe wrench into position. I don't know how much of this is BS, but it's true that I don't want to remove the enclosure. It's hard to gauge the size of things, but that looks like something that would definitely be fiddly even with a small wrench and with a good chance of denting or damaging something, though if I was doing that work I'd pick the fiddly option over soldering in that little a space next to wires.
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Sep 22, 2023 02:09
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So, I'm retrofitting an old hot tub and everything was working just great for a couple weeks, but then this happened: That union sleeve (or whatever you call it) is cracked and I'm losing water between it and the jet impeller (black thing to the right). There was a significant amount of tension on this fitting because of how it's all been glued together. Basically nothing is square to other parts and the union sleeves on the inlet/output of the impeller are trying to force everything together for a good seal. All the fittings are over 20 years old and no doubt, fairly brittle at this point. If there's some solution that allows me some wiggle room while making the repair I could make sure everything is nice and square so there's no more tension on the fittings. The problem is that I don't see a way to get a new union in there. There's no clearance anywhere for repair sleeves and the pipe just disappears into the bowels of the foam-filled tub immediately after that elbow on the left. Any advice?
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Sep 22, 2023 21:22
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What's the best way to remove an old plastic Sharkbite push-fit connector? I have a one leaking under a bathroom faucet and want to replace the corroding shutoff while I'm at it, and use a proper compression fitting this time. But I can't get the drat piece of plastic off the supply, and I don't want to cut any more pipe off if I can help it. EDIT: the supply is 1/4" copper, if it matters. Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 23, 2023 |
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Sep 23, 2023 22:07
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FetusPorn posted:So, I'm retrofitting an old hot tub and everything was working just great for a couple weeks, but then this happened: Hot tubs rival RVs for their level of factory jank. I would try to shim the pump to get better alignment, unless it's a length issue. You maybe could try a fitting saver bit to drill out the repair coupling and then refit the pipes? Again, it's all going to be brittle so you'll have to be super careful.
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Sep 23, 2023 22:29
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Meaty Ore posted:What's the best way to remove an old plastic Sharkbite push-fit connector? I have a one leaking under a bathroom faucet and want to replace the corroding shutoff while I'm at it, and use a proper compression fitting this time. But I can't get the drat piece of plastic off the supply, and I don't want to cut any more pipe off if I can help it. Have you tried the shark bite removal tool?
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Sep 23, 2023 22:30
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I did not see any such thing while I was shopping for new fittings.
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Sep 23, 2023 22:39
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Meaty Ore posted:I did not see any such thing while I was shopping for new fittings. It's the best first choice, but may not work if there's a bunch of corrosion. At that point you're just cutting the pipe. They are incredibly cheap so it's worth a first try. https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1-2-in-Fitting-Removal-Tool/1000182541
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Sep 23, 2023 22:41
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Motronic posted:It's the best first choice, but may not work if there's a bunch of corrosion. At that point you're just cutting the pipe. Ah, I guess i did see those, but only for a much smaller size than I need.  Back to Lowe's it is, then!And the corrosion isn't that bad, I'm mainly just correcting an old, slightly botched DIY job I did probably a decade or more ago. Everything that needs to move, moves.
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Sep 23, 2023 22:49
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I'll be damned. I knew there was a dedicated tool etc but had never looked at it or how it worked. I just watched a video with a cut-away sharkbite fitting that used that tool plus some other "in a pinch" things. Slick.
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Sep 23, 2023 23:18
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H110Hawk posted:I'll be damned. I knew there was a dedicated tool etc but had never looked at it or how it worked. I just watched a video with a cut-away sharkbite fitting that used that tool plus some other "in a pinch" things. Slick. I've used ford/chevy "quick connect" detachment tools in a pinch for sharkbites. These easy on fittings all just need a little shim long enough around enough of their surface to release and it doesn't take much. In a real pinch you can put up pieces of a plastic milk jug and get some of them to work.
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Sep 23, 2023 23:21
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You can even do it with a wrench.
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Sep 23, 2023 23:43
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sharkytm posted:Hot tubs rival RVs for their level of factory jank. I would try to shim the pump to get better alignment, unless it's a length issue. You maybe could try a fitting saver bit to drill out the repair coupling and then refit the pipes? Again, it's all going to be brittle so you'll have to be super careful. Yeah, it's shimmed as best it can be, it is mostly a length issue at this point; That union is about 1/4 short of the mating surface on the impeller, but is fairly square until I squeeze them together at which point the union only makes contact on one side. The sleeve was taking up all the slack and just couldn't take the forces required to make a good seal. I never knew about fitting savers! I think that may let me save the elbow to get a new union and a 1/4" longer pipe in there. Thank you!
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Sep 24, 2023 00:15
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Futzing with a minor sink leak and it’s obvious what’s going on here but I’m baffled as to how one previous owner or other managed to puncture the lip where the drain basket sits seemingly from the top, and also scratch the gently caress out of the area from the bottom. Y’all got any ideas, I have no understanding of how you’d end up with a hole there. Bottom  Top 
the yeti fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 00:29
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the yeti posted:Futzing with a minor sink leak and it’s obvious what’s going on here but I’m baffled as to how one previous owner or other managed to puncture the lip where the drain basket sits seemingly from the top, and also scratch the gently caress out of the area from the bottom. The only way I could imagine that involves not being an utterly insane idiot, would be if they used plumber's putty rather than the topmost gasket, and then while scraping away the excess putty with a knife, they slipped and accidentally put a hole through the sink... and then a raccoon attacked the underside of the sink. Maybe the first drain basket had been glued in, and they needed to wrench it apart with a big screwdriver or something, to get it off, and replace it with a new one? Best I can do for a guess.
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Sep 24, 2023 01:46
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PurpleXVI posted:The only way I could imagine that involves not being an utterly insane idiot, would be if they used plumber's putty rather than the topmost gasket, and then while scraping away the excess putty with a knife, they slipped and accidentally put a hole through the sink... and then a raccoon attacked the underside of the sink. That or trying to prise off a disposal for....reasons....is the best I come up with too. Comedy option: One of the POs was a contractor, and this is salvage off a job site fuckup of some kind. the yeti fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Sep 24, 2023 |
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Sep 24, 2023 02:27
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Most likely trying to unspin the garage disposal ring with a screwdriver and a hammer. As for shark bite removal, these are great for hard to reach areas https://a.co/d/f1gXlsx
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Sep 24, 2023 08:17
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Nitrox posted:Most likely trying to unspin the garage disposal ring with a screwdriver and a hammer. Bingo. That's what it looks like to me. Some people are more handsome than handy, but that doesn't stop 'em from trying!
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Sep 24, 2023 12:38
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FetusPorn posted:Yeah, it's shimmed as best it can be, it is mostly a length issue at this point; That union is about 1/4 short of the mating surface on the impeller, but is fairly square until I squeeze them together at which point the union only makes contact on one side. The sleeve was taking up all the slack and just couldn't take the forces required to make a good seal. I'd try to borrow one rather than buy. It's a specialty tool that's not common, but they can work. If there's room, I'd suggest having someone else hold the fitting to stabilize it or even try to clamp it in place.
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Sep 24, 2023 12:41
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Nitrox posted:Most likely trying to unspin the garage disposal ring with a screwdriver and a hammer. sharkytm posted:Bingo. That's what it looks like to me. Some people are more handsome than handy, but that doesn't stop 'em from trying! loving lmao. Yeah I bet y'all are right, thanks. One more for the 'stupid PO tricks" bucket 
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Sep 24, 2023 13:59
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Nitrox posted:Most likely trying to unspin the garage disposal ring with a screwdriver and a hammer. Beat me to it. Those clamp tools are far easier to use than the little ring they claim will loosen it.
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Sep 24, 2023 20:47
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epswing posted:Heh, yeah, the radiator is lower than the boiler. It's going to be fun filling small pans repeatedly with the water still in the rad. This kind of seems like a job for a shop vac. You should definitely have at the ready when doing the job. Drying up and spilled water will leave behind rust and whatnot, much better to suck it all up.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:33
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Jenkl posted:
We were able to reshape the metal enough to get it flowing fully again. There's still a kink in the plastic inside, but not enough to be the limiting factor for this faucet. No actual blockage, it does seem the installer just wrenched the poo poo out of this guy bending it.  Shut-offs are now added, and we updated the other two multi-turns (leaky bastards). Also fixed the springs on my dishwasher as they'd lost some tension. In the process, I discovered my high-loop was more of a molehill than a mountain and fixed that (below is not fixed) as best I could. Also found (and fixed) this electric treat under the dishwasher. Yes, there is more than enough slack to reach the junction box. No, there was no grommet. 
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Sep 25, 2023 18:27
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sharkytm posted:I'd try to borrow one rather than buy. It's a specialty tool that's not common, but they can work. If there's room, I'd suggest having someone else hold the fitting to stabilize it or even try to clamp it in place. Thanks sharkytm, I'm working on a cheaper solution that'll be less destructive first. Following the do-no-harm plan, I've used a fine syringe to PVC cement, then clamp the cracked sleeve. I got really good coverage on the crack and managed not to mangle/glue the threads inside. I know this wont be too strong, but I'm hoping it'll be enough after the next step. The second part of this plan is to make a fat gasket (I have CNC capability and a ton of ABS/Acrylic sheet stock and O-rings) that'll bridge the gap between the union and the impeller so less clamping force is required to make a good seal. Hopefully, this means the repaired sleeve will hold up. I'm waiting for the glue to fully cure and become hard (it seems to stay slightly soft for several days) before I do any assembly/pressure testing. If not, I'll go with the fitting saver. I do see that there are nice, expensive aluminum models with carbide inserts, but I also see cheap options like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HE5E0A/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3V9R9BV19MQT8&th=1 I was planning on going with the cheap model, but if I can find someone with the fancy variety, I'll try to borrow one. Thanks again. I'll report back if/when I get this working again.
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Sep 25, 2023 19:19
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Shifty Pony posted:This kind of seems like a job for a shop vac. Thanks for the advice, the vac will be involved. Follow up questions: 1. Can I refill the system from the main loop rather than the fill valve on the boiler? I have a utility sink nearby but the faucet doesn’t have threads for a hose. I’ve been meaning to install a new faucet but haven’t gotten to it yet. Main loop where city water enters (valve #1 would be closed during draining, and opened later to fill): https://i.imgur.com/OR9Q1ky.jpg Boiler fill valve (on the right side): https://i.imgur.com/oxlldeA.jpg 2. My radiator bleed valves, I’m assuming there’s a special tool to open/close them, but it’s not this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/husky-4-way-sillcock-key/1000828360 I think it’s maybe this but the business end looks like a square: Brass Radiator Key 2pcs Removable Radiator Bleed Key Radiator Bleed Key Venting Air for Lock and Open Faucet https://a.co/d/44Uu9zv I’ve been using the biggest flathead screwdriver I have but they’re old and worn and starting to strip. What’s the right thing I need?
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Sep 26, 2023 23:46
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epswing posted:Thanks for the advice, the vac will be involved. If I understand your system and there is no indirect heating happening (i.e. through a tank) then yes, just use the autofill. If there is indirect heating you wouldn't be draining that look anyway, so still.....your autofill should be totally fine. epswing posted:2. My radiator bleed valves, I’m assuming there’s a special tool to open/close them, but it’s not this: Do you still have a local hardware store? Like, no national brand or maybe one that just has a franchise name like Ace/True Value in the states? Because those are the places that have all that weird stuff for your particular local area old houses. My local one has the two styles of rad keys for around here as well as replacement bleeders, etc. A lot of this stuff was really regional. You should find the oldest dude in there and ask him. No, it doesn't matter if he works there or not.
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Sep 27, 2023 00:06
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