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Hellioning posted:Papalymo doesn't have enough character to form an opinion on. Papalymo is the tsukkomi to Yda's boke and became unnecessary once Yda became Lyse so he had to go.
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Sep 25, 2023 07:25
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Antivehicular posted:If Square ever starts pulling funding to CBU3, Yoshi-P just needs to start auctioning off "Official Romantic Partner of X NPC" certificates. Valid and binding on social media! Oh man sword of legends had a romantic partner leaderboard for it's npcs and whoever was on top got the "official romantic partner of x" title for a week. Imagine the absolute chaos that would be in ff14  I never figured out how the hell that leaderboard worked though
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Sep 25, 2023 07:26
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 Papalymo least he was able to return for a moment to explode Ilberd.
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Sep 25, 2023 07:33
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ARR papalymo sucked but the brief time we see papalymo at the end of Heavensward he was much improved, I really liked the new VA. He's only in like three scenes though so not a huge sample size.
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Sep 25, 2023 08:35
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Considering all the other Scions improved, I think they could've improved Papalymo and Minfilia plenty if they had actually kept them around. I saw someone once suggest Lyse's role in StB was originally supposed to be Minfilia's (or at least that it would've made more sense for her) and then I got frustrated again they decided to kill her off when people disliked her instead of just giving her stuff to do.
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Sep 25, 2023 08:50
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would it have made more sense for minfilia? the whole idea of stormblood is lyse growing into a competent leader instead of a hothead. minfilia was already (allegedly) a competent leader. there would have been no arc there
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Sep 25, 2023 09:04
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I actually don't have any problem with Lyse or her arc personally and think a lot of the criticism of her is overblown with a very obvious misogynistic edge. My feelings were more of the "yeah they could've come up with SOMETHING for Minfilia instead of having her die on her way back to her home planet because pray return to the Waking Sands" variety. I find the ways a lot of people talk about Lyse and Minfilia really loving wierd.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:09
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so much of the shadowbringers plot is built on the minfilia stuff, though. and im not really sure the plot would be served by having her hang around more. she has agency in the story going forward and a large impact on the direction of it, its not like they just chucked her off a cliff because people didnt like her, even if she isnt physically around.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:12
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Endorph posted:would it have made more sense for minfilia? the whole idea of stormblood is lyse growing into a competent leader instead of a hothead. minfilia was already (allegedly) a competent leader. there would have been no arc there Minfilia was a competent leader in all the boring, invisible ways that in games like this would otherwise present as 'even more bullshit errand quests'. You could make a story out of a person like that needing to become a different, more active type of leader, and I could see merit to it. It could even be compelling; I've been watching Deep Space Nine lately, and that's not a world away from Sisko's journey. But when we're talking about this game, and the strengths and weaknesses it has, no, Lyse making that bigger and simpler journey is better, at least for the MSQ.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:16
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I think when I think about the romantic options in the game, on reflection, I'm really not thinking about it in terms of my WoL but just like, what I find attractive. I find it really hard to like, think of my WoL as anything but perhaps fightsexual. Which raises the terrifying notion that I unconsciously ship her with Zenos. G'raha is cute but he's cute because *I* personally appreciate a demure catboy, y' know? I don't really get the very blatant attraction to Y'shtola that many seem to have, but perhaps I just have a lack of sufficient death drive.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:20
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I do kinda feel the FFXIV devs keep their finger on the pulse of fan desires and it influences things even if it probably doesn't super transform the work. Probably a natural result of having an ongoiing game that you're making as fans are reacting to earlier parts. Like even looking back to Heavensward Alphinaud who feels at part a natural arc of what went down over in ARR patches but also a move to be like "Man people think arguably the primary supporting cast member in ARR is an annoying stooge. We really need to transform this character" and then people's reaction to that moves into "Man people loved the early party dynamic in Heavensward. Let's add Estinien to the Scions and have him and Alf be besties all the time." Like if Lyse was more popular she probably would be more heavily featured but I don't think its as if that because people complained her she's instead just sticking around as the primary recurring Ala Mhigan character.
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Sep 25, 2023 09:32
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ff11 upgraded shantotto from random job quest npc to main plot character and one of the game's mascots because people liked her, so
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Sep 25, 2023 09:34
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Anyway the response to fan thoughts that I don't appreciate is that in Endwalker MSQ characters were often remarking about the WoL shouldering too much of a burden and that its so sad and tragic which I think is in conversation to stuff i've seen from fans about how "Dang, when you really think about it WoL has really gone through it. They've lost so much  " but mostly what I got out of it was thinking "Geez Alisaie, chill out. Its fine, stop worrying".
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Sep 25, 2023 09:43
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i dont think that was really about the fans or anything its mostly just because endwalker is the end of the story arc and they wanted to do you're not alone and stuff. so much of endwalker is about reflecting on the past that that kinda talk makes sense and its something stuff like the dark knight quests already touched on. the warrior of light kinda being at their breaking point sometimes is one of the three bits of canon characterization they have
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Sep 25, 2023 10:13
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Anyway the response to fan thoughts that I don't appreciate is that in Endwalker MSQ characters were often remarking about the WoL shouldering too much of a burden and that its so sad and tragic which I think is in conversation to stuff i've seen from fans about how "Dang, when you really think about it WoL has really gone through it. They've lost so much I haven't really thought about that part as a response to fan responses, but now that you mention it I think it's a cousin to the 30-50 Dark Knight questline, both responding in different ways to the notion of 'wow, we do a lot of sidequests'. And DRK's angle was always a miss for me, because it was coming from the angle that I'm resentful of having to do all those quests (which makes some sense when you realize it was very much coming from at-launch, 'bunch of filler quests in the MSQ' ARR), and I just wasn't. 'Aren't you tired of being nice, don't you want to go apeshit' doesn't work if you actually enjoy doing all that stuff.
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Sep 25, 2023 10:15
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in drk's case it wasnt just 'wow sidequests huh' its also placed right after everything that goes down in 2.5. in that context the warrior of light as a character being frustrated with how everything always gets pushed onto them makes sense given, what just happened. even if you didnt mind the post-arr quests it makes sense character-wise
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Sep 25, 2023 10:18
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I actually don't think that's much of an example of fans influencing the story. I think it's more that the WoL has done a lot of carrying recently, and it hasn't been all sunshine and roses. ARR, HW and StB have the WoL doing a lot, but there are people helping out alongside them and just as much important stuff being done by other Scions (preemptively including Estinien here), the Grand Companies, Ishgardians, the resistances in Ala Mhigo and Doma and other allies we make along the way. ShB, though? That's like 90% WoL with the Scions filling more supportive roles than they normally like to. And half of them hated it in their own ways. Thancred has his own issues he's trying to settle, while Alphinaud's worked with us the longest and has the greatest faith in us, so neither show much outside of friendly worry. Alisae looks up to the WoL, but can't do a drat thing about the Lightwardens. Urianger puts on a stoic face at first glance and shoulders the burden of directing events, but in the end he crumbles and literally begs for forgiveness. Y'shtola doesn't really believe the story the Exarch and Urianger are telling and goes off to find her own solution, only to find she can't recognize her friend since their soul is in peril and the people she'd normally trust to help find a solution aren't listening to her. Then all of them watch the WoL nearly stumble into a fate worse than death, twice, unable to help either time it was needed the most. ShB patches and EW are fairly chill, in comparison, and everyone's able to work together and watch each other's backs. They still recognize the WoL can probably handle things on their own when needed, but there's always that recognition that they almost lost their friend more than once and were only able to watch it happen the first time and actively failed to help the second. That's going to sting, even after the WoL goes solo a few times with nothing too worrying happening. And then at the very end they don't show up when Meteion says they should, returning much later and once again incredibly close to death. Frankly, if I was good friends with the WoL, at this point I'd go out of my way to make sure they had at least one person watching their back whenever poo poo was going down. There's been too many close calls.
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Sep 25, 2023 11:01
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"How hard the FF14 devs push shipping" discussion is funnier if you assume that everybody is pulling the classic nerd folly of mistaking any positive interactions as proof of romantic interest. Not to say you all are, but it's a funny hypothetical. It's easy to read every instance of "they're down bad for me" as sass or personality. Y'shtola has the two famous ones and both can be read on multiple places on a sliding scale, as well as both working 100% if read completely straightly. "Over my knee" comes after you sass her for genuine concern by saying "OK, mom." "We'll have words later" can be played for comedy and/or genuine anger at you for the sass option there. The fanbase of course has developed a healthy number of believers in this being proof that Y'shtola has a paddle in hand while speaking instead of being the daughter of the sassiest woman on the entire star. But that's fine, I think that's a funny and amusing interpretation too. Maybe the devs agree based on things like Eorzea Academy. FF14 is very, very formal in tone, especially compared to the other FF games. It always hits me extra hard when they actually crack a joke because I've just spent hours in the MSQ taking things seriously. Likewise when the otherwise typically stoic and adult Scions launch a joke or flash their personality it's gonna be given extra attention and interpretations. Every FF game I've ever played has featured romantic interest, flirting and provocative lines and personalities, at least as far as the times allowed. FF14 does it too. It was all in service to varying degrees to humanize the characters, especially as a poorly done handling of a world sans romance comes across as sterile and awkward. I wonder if people had spirited debates about the developer intent of the wide cast in a game like FF6. I'm sure the devs lean into some of the popular fanonization and adopt it to a limited, acceptable degree. The game works if you play it as a sexless classic fantasy, if you accept/reject some shipping bait as you see it, or if you're horny. Characters become perceived in part by the popular conceptions the fanbase shares of them. I really like this setting and the characters, they're pretty well done for being so subdued and neutral in tone overall. And canonically G'raha married me, sorry haters.
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Sep 25, 2023 11:11
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They're on record as saying you can imagine deeper relationships with NPCs if you want but they're not likely to ever be able to concretely support them beyond ambiguously read lines because of story needs. Can't have Urianger moving in with you permanently when he's supposed to be on Mars, after all.
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Sep 25, 2023 11:27
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Endorph posted:i dont think that was really about the fans or anything its mostly just because endwalker is the end of the story arc and they wanted to do you're not alone and stuff. so much of endwalker is about reflecting on the past that that kinda talk makes sense I guess this iis true but the other canon WoL characteristics such as "lovin their friends, lovin fighting (just like Zenos  ) and lovin adventuring (the highest possible virtue)" are stuff I dig way more than that so maybe it just felt off.But also, this is sort of fan response it felt in conversation with to me.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:16
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i mean that post isnt really 'fan response.' thats just, a list of things that happened, in the video game final fantasy 14.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:31
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I just mean it was a line of discussion about the protag I saw often after ShB so when it got some focus in EW it was unsurprising to me. And I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if the writers intended to be pulling on those threads to draw out character for the WoL unrelated to wanting to focus on whatever ffxiv players were interested in but its just something I remember thinking about way back at EW's release.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:38
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6.5 special site was updated - trailer and few new pics were added new AR gear  new PvP gear - I have no idea which is which - is red healer? or green? blue - tank?  
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Sep 25, 2023 12:41
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It can be kinda hard to tell the difference sometimes, but I do think there's a very real difference between 'audience response guided by story direction' and 'story direction guided by audience response'. Onean's post was basically outlining a very long-term example of the former, while I think Dark Knight's first and third storylines are great examples of the latter (while striking entirely different tones with them). At this point it's gotten hard to definitively notice when story is guided by audience response, though, because the developers have gotten really good at predicting what the audience will like before they've gotten the responses. You'd have thought Elpis in Endwalker was basically just them going full fanservice based on how popular that last zone in Shadowbringers was, but we know enough of the expansion development timeline at this point to say that they came up with Elpis well before the jury came back on how much people liked that part. EDIT: Dwesa posted:new PvP gear - I have no idea which is which - is red healer? or green? blue - tank? https://twitter.com/AnonyMooseXIV/status/1706270307139408000 If I didn't already love the new PvP set I do now.
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Sep 25, 2023 12:52
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Cleretic posted:At this point it's gotten hard to definitively notice when story is guided by audience response, though, because the developers have gotten really good at predicting what the audience will like before they've gotten the responses. You'd have thought Elpis in Endwalker was basically just them going full fanservice based on how popular that last zone in Shadowbringers was, but we know enough of the expansion development timeline at this point to say that they came up with Elpis well before the jury came back on how much people liked that part. Yeah, I remember reading something shortly after EW's launch about them increasing Emet-Selch's presence in EW after ShB, but it couldn't have been by much. My hunch is that they added him as the zone narrator and added a few more lines directed more at the player to his part at the end, and that was it. quote:https://twitter.com/AnonyMooseXIV/status/1706270307139408000 Also, this has to be true, it's almost too perfect.
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Sep 25, 2023 13:23
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goblin week posted:whatever. gently caress me i guess lol
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Sep 25, 2023 13:30
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goblin week posted:whatever. gently caress me i guess This was pretty much my reaction, too. Probably almost everybody's reaction. It's one of the best parts of Stormblood.
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Sep 25, 2023 13:36
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mikemil828 posted:https://youtu.be/eVi_s0E7v94?si=eT8jagU35r1-x9M_&t=1992 Sorry I think you linked the wrong version of this scene, this one is obviously the canon version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnNvD6FMi18
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Sep 25, 2023 13:45
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Oh, hey, the Phookas Twitter noticed that the site update shows Jobs with some of the new streetwear stuff. They don't share the normal pairings (Fending/Maiming, Casting/Healing, Striking(or Scouting)/Aiming). So, either there're no Job restrictions or Fending/Scouting is a pair, and the others are Maiming/??? and Aiming/???.
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Sep 25, 2023 13:58
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It's Crystal Trophy gear, it's probably lvl 1 all classes
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Sep 25, 2023 14:03
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I mean, being Crystal Trophy rewards means it's more likely to be Job locked if you're just looking at that aspect. Outside of accessories, every equipable item currently available is Job locked. Half of it is slightly recolored AF gear, so that shouldn't really count because they'll never unlock those, but not the other half.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:11
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goblin week posted:whatever. gently caress me i guess  Spoilers For That Patch: Whatever I think of the double whammy of impossible survival and an amnesia plot it's all forgiven for the sheer entertainment and personality of everything. EW: Wish Asahi lived, he'd make a great awful little shithead rallying the worst elements of the Garlean refugees for political gain.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:15
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Onean posted:Oh, hey, the Phookas Twitter noticed that the site update shows Jobs with some of the new streetwear stuff. Yeah, based on the fact that there are only 6 different sets and not 7, they might not even be role locked.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:46
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Cleretic posted:EDIT: That reminds me, I really need to lookup a henshin/morphin' time macro.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:58
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I hope this was made for double dye channels because I can already tell you that the teal is going to make most dyes look terrible :/
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Sep 25, 2023 15:09
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I think the raid gear looks terrible, but in a way that's a relief since it means I'll never have to use a specific job to try to need on a glam
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Sep 25, 2023 15:35
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Raid gear looking nice is kind of a curse anyways because bis is inevitably a mix of tome and raid gear and I’d rather use the overflow gear for an alt job rather than filling out raid glam
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Sep 25, 2023 15:55
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Alliance Raid gear is never BIS though so they're basically always glams and alts.
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Sep 25, 2023 15:59
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It looks ok, imo, but it's hard to compete with the Panthean sets.
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Sep 25, 2023 16:00
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It's funny because I'll look at all this new gear and be all "Ooh, that's neat" or criticize it or what have you, but I will also probably be deep in the cold ground before I ever glam off my 80 GNB artifact gear outside of a very specific gimmick circumstance like dressing as Santa during Christmastime.
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Sep 25, 2023 16:06
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