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smoobles posted:I used to be a space adventurer like you, until I took a space arrow to the space knee. "You're finally awake, captain? Got caught in that spacer ambush just like the rest of us"
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Sep 25, 2023 16:52
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CommieGIR posted:"You're finally awake, captain? Got caught in that spacer ambush just like the rest of us" My ancestors are smiling down on me from their penthouse for being 1st class citizens in new atlantis, serpent, can you say the same?
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Sep 25, 2023 16:54
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Grey Cat posted:My ancestors are smiling down on me from their penthouse for being 1st class citizens in new atlantis, serpent, can you say the same? My ancestors pent house is floating in space behind me imperial. Can you say the same?
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Sep 25, 2023 17:16
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So UC is Empire, Freestar is Nord, Constellation is The Blades or Mages Guild, Crimson Fleet is Thieves Guild....
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Sep 25, 2023 17:29
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i still need to build a cool ship. I'm using the razorleaf rn and that's pretty good for me. Also, I apparently married that Sarah lady so I guess that's cool. Every time I take a nap she makes a quip about having sex in space.
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Sep 25, 2023 17:52
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Rad-daddio posted:i still need to build a cool ship. I'm using the razorleaf rn and that's pretty good for me. I really like the Shieldbreaker as a platform, you can get it really early on and it can be customized into being an absolute monster.
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Sep 25, 2023 18:17
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Rad-daddio posted:i am also having a fun time playing it.
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Sep 25, 2023 18:42
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Don't make me tap the thread title
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Sep 25, 2023 18:47
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Poil posted:It's perfectly fine to have fun with and like a bad game. but they could be using that time to cure cancer instead!! ever think about that??? HUH????!!! ever think about what would happen if things were different
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Sep 25, 2023 18:50
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Starfield is kind of impressive when you consider that it's all the work of a single man dev team. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 25, 2023 18:51
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Poil posted:It's perfectly fine to have fun with and like a bad game. nah if a game is fun to you its a good game, there's no objectively good or bad games. If a game is boring it can be as polished as it wants, its bad. If a janky game is fun for you, that means its good.
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Sep 25, 2023 18:51
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buglord posted:Something that I feel is sorely missing from Starfield is the ability to see some distant POI, set a waypoint to it, discover something along the way, get distracted, go into some mini dungeon, rinse repeat until you arrive. I feel like the ability to naturally explore was removed when they went the natural hubs and random planets route. I hadn't been following Starfield too closely, but wasn't Todd explaining that planets would be randomly generated, and then would all be fully explorable with their own mini-quests to be found if you spent the time? It sounded like how in Fallout you're walking to Nellis Airforce Base, and then running into a vault randomly, so you end up losing 6 hours of time exploring it and finding cool poo poo, then you come out and find some town inhabited by lizard people that you need to either shake hands with or commit genocide. That was the impression that I got from how Starfield would be from the few interviews I saw with him. Each planet would have many adventures, and there were going to be thousands of planets.
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Sep 25, 2023 18:57
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Yeah, there are thousand planets, and each planet has the same prefab shack in the middle of nowhere
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Sep 25, 2023 18:59
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Poil posted:It's perfectly fine to have fun with and like a bad game. loving a 
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Sep 25, 2023 19:12
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Philthy posted:Each planet would have many adventures, and there were going to be thousands of planets. Each planet has its own Preston Garvey
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Sep 25, 2023 19:13
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Going from Starfield to Cyberpunk sure is something. You can tell who actually paid for an animator. I watched the Starfield conversation idle loop anims so many times I could play a song to their fidgets. Cyberpunk actually moves your camera, and has characters moving in and out of your field of vision like normal people. Revolutionary stuff I guess.
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Sep 25, 2023 19:23
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The most jarring moment of dialog camera in starfield for me was when you go with... Sarah I think? To question some bartender and Sarah and the bartender have a conversation between themselves that I chose to stay out of and let them work it out. So they're talking to each other, but they're both looking me dead in the eye when they speak to each other.
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Sep 25, 2023 19:27
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Philthy posted:I hadn't been following Starfield too closely, but wasn't Todd explaining that planets would be randomly generated, and then would all be fully explorable with their own mini-quests to be found if you spent the time? It sounded like how in Fallout you're walking to Nellis Airforce Base, and then running into a vault randomly, so you end up losing 6 hours of time exploring it and finding cool poo poo, then you come out and find some town inhabited by lizard people that you need to either shake hands with or commit genocide. That was the impression that I got from how Starfield would be from the few interviews I saw with him. Each planet would have many adventures, and there were going to be thousands of planets. I remember seeing the TES: Oblivion showcase video a year or two ago and the level of reactivity and stuff that Todd was conveying still doesn’t exist in that scale and format today. Seeing that was my indication not to read/watch anything about this game because it would likely be crazy scripted fantasy as well.
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Sep 25, 2023 19:57
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deep dish peat moss posted:The most jarring moment of dialog camera in starfield for me was when you go with... Sarah I think? To question some bartender and Sarah and the bartender have a conversation between themselves that I chose to stay out of and let them work it out. So they're talking to each other, but they're both looking me dead in the eye when they speak to each other. I liked when Sarah repeatedly talked about how disgusted she was by the Red Mile and refused to have anything to do with blood sports, but gleefully went along with me and shot all the monsters when I tried it out. Didn't even get a "Sarah disliked that." I guess she's just all talk (or the programmers are insanely lazy).
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Sep 25, 2023 20:05
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sure okay posted:Going from Starfield to Cyberpunk sure is something. You can tell who actually paid for an animator. its so odd that Bethesda has been clowned for bad animations as long as I can remember, and even now, like twenty years later, they're this huge development house and still haven't hired better animators
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Sep 25, 2023 20:10
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correct me if im wrong but isnt the animation director an old college friend of todd's
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Sep 25, 2023 20:21
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buglord posted:I remember seeing the TES: Oblivion showcase video a year or two ago and the level of reactivity and stuff that Todd was conveying still doesn’t exist in that scale and format today. Seeing that was my indication not to read/watch anything about this game because it would likely be crazy scripted fantasy as well. It was probably one of those I watched way back that sold me on Oblivion; some video with a shopkeeper in Bruma(?) trying to romance the player and she also cast fireball on her dog for barking.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:37
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Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:It was probably one of those I watched way back that sold me on Oblivion; some video with a shopkeeper in Bruma(?) trying to romance the player and she also cast fireball on her dog for barking. I don't know how much I buy it vs just all that stuff in the trailers being pre-rigged and then passed off as "radiant", but supposedly earlier in development the system was tied to way more NPC behaviors besides just facilitating a basic schedule, and you would have NPC's do some pretty reactive and off the wall stuff. The problem was it made the NPC's too erratic, and over enough time usually whatever they did just devolved into massive city-wide fights because one NPC would piss off another enough for them to get attacked, which would piss off other NPC's who would also join the fight, on and on until the player rolled into a city where everybody non-essential had murdered each other.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:18
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Sydin posted:I don't know how much I buy it vs just all that stuff in the trailers being pre-rigged and then passed off as "radiant", but supposedly earlier in development the system was tied to way more NPC behaviors besides just facilitating a basic schedule, and you would have NPC's do some pretty reactive and off the wall stuff. The problem was it made the NPC's too erratic, and over enough time usually whatever they did just devolved into massive city-wide fights because one NPC would piss off another enough for them to get attacked, which would piss off other NPC's who would also join the fight, on and on until the player rolled into a city where everybody non-essential had murdered each other. One would think they could figure out some way to balance it out in the intervening 20 years! Instead there's been exactly no progress at all. So I call their claims of "actually our AI was too smart so we had to ditch it" total bullshit. More likely it was so broken that it led to total nonsense chaos because they hosed up the basics, instead of some super advanced emergent gameplay, and what ended up in the game were the only bits that could have been salvaged. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 21:26
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hmm that does sound tricky, but maybe they could just write a good story and good characters and then players wouldn’t really care if the NPCs visit the toilet a few hours after dinner each night because they’re too busy reflecting on the heavy emotional and intellectual subjects presented through the events of the game.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:32
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Bad Purchase posted:hmm that does sound tricky, but maybe they could just write a good story and good characters and then players wouldn’t really care if the NPCs visit the toilet a few hours after dinner each night because they’re too busy reflecting on the heavy emotional and intellectual subjects presented through the events of the game. Yeah but would I still be able to click through the game as fast as I possibly can without consequence then?
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Sep 25, 2023 21:34
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you know what bethesda open worlds really do they trick you into thinking your own imagination was something they did
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Sep 25, 2023 21:36
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Npc 1: "I saw a mudcrab the other day" Npc 2: "uh, terrible creatures!" Todd Howard, deathly pale and trembling: "we thought we played God, but perhaps in truth we created new Gods to rule unto us... May the posterity forgive our hubris"
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Sep 25, 2023 21:39
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well i mean modding (like including the creation engine with morrowind) is a big reason for their success, so
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Sep 25, 2023 21:39
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steinrokkan posted:One would think they could figure out some way to balance it out in the intervening 20 years! Instead there's been exactly no progress at all. To be fair it's been 20 years and they also still can't figure out how to handle vendor inventory besides placing a floating chest under the floor beneath the shopkeeper. They haven't even figured out a way to impossibly lock the chest with a non-existent key so OOB glitches wouldn't provide players free access because if they did that then the vendor couldn't access it either to sell to you. 
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Sep 25, 2023 21:39
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Mozi posted:well i mean modding (like including the creation engine with morrowind) is a big reason for their success, so well yeah i just think if people realised that - you know those storytelling thoughts you have before you fall asleep? thinking about some cool worldbuilding poo poo or like, a cool place or whatever. then you fall asleep sort of satisfied with your own imagination, or think, man i should make something like that one day. that's the absolute height of the experience bethesda can offer you for $69.99. see that mountain? imagine if there was something cool on it. and the real rubes decide to spend months/years/decades of their lives trying to mod a bit of that spark into the husk worlds bethesda create, for free.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:44
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floating underground chests are like the least bad thing about vendors in bethesda games engine cheats like that are fine and most people will never notice. what they will notice is that selling 20 looted items from a single spacer outpost generates more economic activity than any major in game city can handle in a 48 hour period.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:47
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Speaking of emotional and intellectual subjects. Does anyone else dislike the grav drive thing being what killed Earth? When I first saw what the planet was like I was hoping they were making a statement about humanity destroying its home with climate change, but then they get to the stars and are still doing the same basic government styles and history repeats itself and stuf. But then it takes away humanity's agency in its own history making it an oopsie in the grav jump thing that was easily fixed so the star born could force people to space. I think it sucks a lot!
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Sep 25, 2023 21:49
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i didn't mind that as the twist. climate change allegory, even if hamfisto'd, is whatever. but the way the details were filled in didn't make a lot of sense and they used the word "sputtering" too much. and you find the log where the guy responsible for it all is like "ok, i made a small tweak, problem solved" but implies he did it secretly. it seems word never got out, because all of this stuff is supposed to be news to you, so historians and scientists in the settled systems must not be aware. so like, at any time, a grav drive manufacturer could inadvertently make a change that reverses the fix and instantly doom every single settled system in the galaxy. this info is not treated as a major revelation. there's no urgent quest to alert MAST or manufacturers or update space wikipedia. you just kinda go "yep" and move on. e: i think even a bad story can work as long as the reaction to it feels appropriate by the characters and the story evolves to encompass it. but they might as well have not even put that stuff in the game, because it changed nothing for anyone, and then they immediately move on to more dragonborn stuff with no time for the earth stuff to really sink in. Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 21:55
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Philthy posted:I hadn't been following Starfield too closely, but wasn't Todd explaining that planets would be randomly generated, and then would all be fully explorable with their own mini-quests to be found if you spent the time? It sounded like how in Fallout you're walking to Nellis Airforce Base, and then running into a vault randomly, so you end up losing 6 hours of time exploring it and finding cool poo poo, then you come out and find some town inhabited by lizard people that you need to either shake hands with or commit genocide. That was the impression that I got from how Starfield would be from the few interviews I saw with him. Each planet would have many adventures, and there were going to be thousands of planets. Every vault has its own little gimmick and there are lots of moments of clever environmental storytelling. AI just can't do that. Every location is a generic dungeon or just has a few people wandering around giving out generic quests. Not gonna lie, I'm having tons of fun. But it doesn't have a lot of personality.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:15
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For what it's worth, these are official concept art of explorable planets. This is the expectation that Bethesda set      Some Starfield players will tell you that they've seen planets that look "just like" one or more of these, but they're just flat-out wrong. Not one of these is possible in Starfield. Every single map is the same thing we've seen with procedural terrain generation since the dawn of time: flat, rolling hills with occasional terrain doodads procedurally placed across them. Every single one of these landscapes is far too dynamic for Starfield to actually provide. The 5th one is the only one that looks even vaguely like an actual Starfield planet, but it has far too much verticality and too many hard edges for anything in Starfield. The Starfield version of that planet would have a flat empty horizon beyond the character, with the same tree and rock algorithmically and sparsely sprinkled throughout. Or maybe one big mountain with soft, smoothed-out edges that doesn't look like an actual geological formation. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 22:21
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What you're saying is the game would have been better if it had just a few hand crafted hyper detailed planets instead of a bunch of procedural ones? But at what cost? No procedural generation or big number of planets? I can barely stomach the notion.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:29
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deep dish peat moss posted:For what it's worth, these are official concept art of explorable planets. This is the expectation that Bethesda set oh my god lol. seriously what the help happened to this game's budget? could no amount of money have fixed starfield?
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Sep 25, 2023 22:34
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What's really dumb is it's not even outside the realm of possibility to procedurally generate maps like those, they'd just have to create the assets and have a different procedural generation algorithm for each hand-crafted biome type. Sure "you'd have the same biomes repeated across multiple planets!!" but... that's already the case, there's only one. They already only have one map type that they just swap out some same-y graphical assets on, like the color of the dirt or what type of earthlike tree it has. There's really no excuse for a studio as large and well-funded as Bethesda implementing it the way they actually did. Running across your 10th "giant forest" planet would be way the gently caress more cool than running across your 100th planet that's the same as all the others except this one has pinetrees sprinkled around. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 22:35
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deep rock galactic owns btw in case anyones wondering. now thats some procedural generation.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:37
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