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This Treb variant is a skirmisher, not a brawler. Sure, it's got all close-range weaponry, but it's not designed to be a stand and deliver machine and shouldn't be piloted like one. These kinds of Mechs are best utilized sweeping in from angles after the initial contact to harry the primary targets or to inflict crits if holes have already been punched in the enemy armor. Come in fast, deliver damage, then get clear ASAP or sweep to the next target, maintaining max movement all the time.
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Sep 25, 2023 18:22
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Unfortunately, "Skirmisher" is sort-of BattleTech's catch-all category for units. It's not really the dustbin category (that's "Ambusher"), but anything that doesn't fit into another role and isn't terrible enough to be an Ambusher is a Skirmisher by default. Just for fun, because some people like seeing things like this: There are 3917 BattleMech variants with declared roles (and 101 without, but those are usually units without usable datasheets). Sorted from most common to least-common: Skirmisher - 860 (21.95%) Striker (Scouts with guns) - 794 (20.27%) Sniper - 626 (15.98%) Brawler - 598 (15.27%) Missile Boat (Snipers with missiles) - 366 (9.34%) Juggernaut (Brawlers with bigger guns) - 350 (8.94%) Scout - 311 (7.94%) Ambusher (Mostly UrbanMechs) - 12 (0.31%) Of the 12 Ambushers, the only three of them that aren't some variety of Urbanmech are all Hunchback IICs.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:08
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“It’s good in a city”
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Sep 25, 2023 20:12
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Captain Foo posted:“It’s good in a city” Love this as shorthand for "no armor, no maneuverability, only short range weapons, can only do well if able to step out of cover point blank to you and then withdraw immediately after shooting"
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Sep 25, 2023 20:15
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Has this game even got ambush/surprise attack style mechanics where you can't see the enemy until they shoot? Unrelated: can LRM's shoot over obstacles?
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Sep 25, 2023 20:19
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Slavvy posted:Has this game even got ambush/surprise attack style mechanics where you can't see the enemy until they shoot? About the LRMs, I believe so, but you need a spotter or for the enemy to be tagged with something like a TAG or NARC. For ambush/sneak attack stuff. Uh. I don’t think that’s ever been a part of the game’s rules, but I’m sure someone could make them. Sensors usually make stealth not an option
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Sep 25, 2023 20:23
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Slavvy posted:Has this game even got ambush/surprise attack style mechanics where you can't see the enemy until they shoot? There are hidden unit rules. The enemy can detect hidden units with a Beagle Active Probe, some 'Mech quirks, or getting a unit into base contact. They're rarely used because they're a pain in the rear end. Captain Foo posted:“It’s good in a city” I love this in the same way "for added close-in punch" means the 'Mech has an SRM-2
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Sep 25, 2023 20:31
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Captain Foo posted:“It’s good in a city” To be fair, that's the original Hunchback. It was designed as a cheap and effective city-fighter for the Reunification Wars.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:32
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Cythereal posted:To be fair, that's the original Hunchback. It was designed as a cheap and effective city-fighter for the Reunification Wars. And yet despite this, the Hunchback isn't an Ambusher. It's a Juggernaut. Just like the Atlas. It's one of the lightest Juggernauts and I'd content that it's the lightest Juggernaut that actually earns the role (the 40 ton Whitworth with 10 rocket launchers is also a Juggernaut but it really should be an Ambusher)
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Sep 25, 2023 20:35
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Slavvy posted:Has this game even got ambush/surprise attack style mechanics where you can't see the enemy until they shoot? That's called double-blind. Double-blind is very fun if you play it with MegaMek to do all the bookkeeping that the ref would otherwise have to do. I would never play it on a physical table, though.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:44
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PoptartsNinja posted:(the 40 ton Whitworth with 10 rocket launchers is also a Juggernaut but it really should be an Ambusher) The only mech I've used yet in Megamek that I'd describe as an Ambusher is also a rocket launcher mech: the Locust 1V2. A cheap as chips backfield insurance policy to keep your snipers/missile mechs from pesky would be attackers.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:16
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The point of an ambusher is to give someone else a segue into field guns.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:24
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Not every mech designed for 'urban warfare' has to compromise on something. The Highlander was originally designed as a city defense mech after all, pilots just happened to discover that the jump jets included for hopping over buildings were also really useful for curbstomping anything that got too close 
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Sep 25, 2023 23:42
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The SLDF going "hey what should we put on an urban defense machine? A Gauss rifle and LRM rack" is such classic them.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:01
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It is ultimately reassuring that in fiction the SLDF was powered by the military version of the Carnot cycle, graft, war crime, incompetence and poor doctrine.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:05
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There are several reasons why, despite their flaws, I will often go to bat for the Capellans, and chief among them are plasma weapons and the Northwind Highlanders. Yes I am Scottish, why do you ask?
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Sep 26, 2023 00:11
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PoptartsNinja posted:There are hidden unit rules. The enemy can detect hidden units with a Beagle Active Probe, some 'Mech quirks, or getting a unit into base contact. The biggest issue with the Hidden Unit rules is that it's one of the few rules in the game that REQUIRES a dedicated third party referee to effectively use. Most of the other mechanics in the game are designed to use dice as the final arbiter, but anything that involves Hidden Units or Double Blind rules either involve you needing a Game Master playing the OpForce or a third person to act as a rules keeper to keep things honest. Hence why they are rarely used outside of something like Megamek where you can have the computer do that poo poo for you.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:19
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I think if I were a
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Sep 26, 2023 00:21
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Defiance Industries posted:The SLDF going "hey what should we put on an urban defense machine? A Gauss rifle and LRM rack" is such classic them. To be fair I would put gauss rifles on everything too if I could manufacture them.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:21
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Defiance Industries posted:I think if I were a Get enough Frosty Jack's into us and anything's possible. Probably works as a decent substitute for reactor coolant too.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:22
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Defiance Industries posted:The SLDF going "hey what should we put on an urban defense machine? A Gauss rifle and LRM rack" is such classic them. Keeping the enemy out of the city from far away is a good strategy Exposing an urban mech to long distance fire is the grift
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Sep 26, 2023 00:31
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Everything called an "urban brawler" is invariably something that can barely make a turn around a building hex corner without needing a concrete slip and fall test, let alone consistently fade away afterwards.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:33
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Dachshundofdoom posted:Everything called an "urban brawler" is invariably something that can barely make a turn around a building hex corner without needing a concrete slip and fall test, let alone consistently fade away afterwards. Hey now, don't be dissing the Powerslide of Glory.
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Sep 26, 2023 02:39
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Rorahusky posted:The biggest issue with the Hidden Unit rules is that it's one of the few rules in the game that REQUIRES a dedicated third party referee to effectively use. Most of the other mechanics in the game are designed to use dice as the final arbiter, but anything that involves Hidden Units or Double Blind rules either involve you needing a Game Master playing the OpForce or a third person to act as a rules keeper to keep things honest. Hence why they are rarely used outside of something like Megamek where you can have the computer do that poo poo for you. Hidden Units doesn't require a GM, it just requires both parties to write down the locations of their hidden units and put them in a protected spot (preferably with a symbol on one side so the player can tell them apart). Then when the unit is revealed you open up the paper to prove that's where the unit was placed. Hidden units don't stay hidden if they move, it's a one-and-done thing.
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Sep 26, 2023 04:39
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It seems like it would give a purpose to a lot of the slow, frail but firepower-heavy mechs. Assuming the designers balanced things by making those mechs cheaper.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:27
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Honestly the real urban specialized mechs are quads, the ability to move a good distance in any direction *without turning* means they perform a lot better on concrete and can easily advance up and down streets to maintain distance or cover a different road every turn. Like, a Scorpion is a bad mech but stick it in a restrictive grid and suddenly it feels like a faster, tougher Panther, which is damning with faint praise, but hey, I like the Panther 
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Sep 26, 2023 16:52
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I'll probably end up using the Hidden Unit rules at some point, if only to give Active Probes some utility. They also might make for good setpiece battles once units with Null Sig / Chameleon LPS / Stealth Armour start showing up.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:11
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Gladiator Running to 1617, shooting the hornet and punching the commando.
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Sep 26, 2023 18:58
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Defiance Industries posted:The SLDF going "hey what should we put on an urban defense machine? A Gauss rifle and LRM rack" is such classic them. LRMs are really surprisingly good for urban combat platforms. Why? Because it lets you contribute to whatever fight is going on, even if you don't have LOS to it. If you have a dozen mechs with some LRM racks (not their primary armament, but a single rack or a couple small ones), then whoever can't see anyone to shoot dumps indirect fire on whatever got spotted by someone else.
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Sep 26, 2023 22:14
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smdvogrin posted:LRMs are really surprisingly good for urban combat platforms. Why? Because it lets you contribute to whatever fight is going on, even if you don't have LOS to it. If you have a dozen mechs with some LRM racks (not their primary armament, but a single rack or a couple small ones), then whoever can't see anyone to shoot dumps indirect fire on whatever got spotted by someone else. This gets even better once TAG gets introduced. Semi-Guided LRMs function identically to normal ones, but ignore movement mods on tagged targets and can be fired at them indirectly without the +1 penalty. They also don't suffer a penalty if the TAG carrier moved during that turn, unlike visual spotting.
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Sep 26, 2023 22:24
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smdvogrin posted:LRMs are really surprisingly good for urban combat platforms. Why? Because it lets you contribute to whatever fight is going on, even if you don't have LOS to it. If you have a dozen mechs with some LRM racks (not their primary armament, but a single rack or a couple small ones), then whoever can't see anyone to shoot dumps indirect fire on whatever got spotted by someone else. I find that people have really overvalued indirect fire since HBStech came out and told everyone it's just as good as regular fire.
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Sep 26, 2023 22:50
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Defiance Industries posted:I find that people have really overvalued indirect fire since HBStech came out and told everyone it's just as good as regular fire. It's this 100%. Indirect fire can be good in tabletop, but the tools to do so don't exist in the Succession Wars era, and you have to specifically build your force around accomodating it. Fighting Dracs becomes a nightmare once they start cramming C3 into everything.
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Sep 26, 2023 23:10
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Like the Kintaro, this month's Bad Mech of the Month on Sarna?
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Sep 26, 2023 23:33
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The original Kintaro is bad, because standard Narcs only belong on speedy light mechs. The KTO-20 and its C3-equipped cousins are legitimate threats.
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Sep 26, 2023 23:40
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Bloody Pom posted:Get enough Frosty Jack's into us and anything's possible. Probably works as a decent substitute for reactor coolant too. Isn't that what irn-bru is for?
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Sep 26, 2023 23:52
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River_Bed_[1268]: Turn 6 Jeanne Turgot bit her lip and concentrated as she exchanged fire with the mercenary Wolverine. The Wolverine’s guns belched out smoke and light, lasers and missiles ripping into what was left of her Hornet’s armour and stripping its already meagre protection to the bone. Jeanne’s return fire was less impressive, but she still managed to score a couple of good hits on the heavier mech’s arm and leg. The Wolverine outgunned her by a significant margin, but if she could just keep chipping away at it then perhaps- Jeanne’s pod lurched violently as the bluish-white lance of a PPC struck her Hornet’s right side, hewing into it like a woodsman’s axe. The ravening beam swept across her mech’s right arm and bit deep into its torso, gouging out what was left of its armour and shredding the superstructure beneath. Her viewscreens and computer readouts flickered and buzzed as charged particles flooded her Hornet’s systems, briefly glitching them out before her DI computer’s safeguards kicked in and stabilised the displays. A grim sense of finality settled over Jeanne as her mech’s diagnostics software spat out a damage report. The Hornet’s right arm was charcoal black, indicating that it had been completely shot away. Its right side was a livid red, meaning that it had lost all of its armour and was close to suffering a complete loss of integrity. Worse, the firing circuits for her SRM-4 appeared to have been severed, reducing her armament to a single Small Laser. Jeanne always did her best to stay optimistic, but the truth of her situation was too stark to ignore. “I just took a hit that drat near cleaved me in half. Sorry guys, but I’m going to have to bail.” She announced, reaching for the switch that would activate her jump jets. “What the hell are you talking about?” Etienne demanded angrily. “Stand and fight, drat it!” Jeanne hesitated. Despite his youth, Etienne’s voice carried the weight of command. Instinct told her to obey, but pragmatism won out, and she flicked the switch anyway. “I’m sorry, sir. I’ve lost nearly all of my weapons, and I’m one solid hit away from being cored. I’d love to stay and snipe all of those mercs’ cockpits with my Small Laser, but I’m afraid I’m just not that good.” With that, Jeanne leapt from the hill and soared back over the riverbed. If she could pass the northern edge of the battlefield, the simulation would consider her to have forfeited and remove her from play. As she landed, a small smile crept across her lips. Despite her self-deprecation, she was actually quite pleased with her performance. Knocking the Wolverine over had been a triumph, even though she knew deep down that it had been a lucky hit. “You did good, girl,” she murmured, patting the Hornet’s control panel. “We’ll do even better next time, yeah?”  Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) attempts to stand. Needs 5, rolls 9: Succeeds! Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) attempts to reverse into Hex 2112 but does not have enough MP; movement ends in Hex 2011.   Weapons fire for Wolverine WVR-6M (Player): -Fires Medium Laser at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 5, rolls 9: Hits Left Torso! Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) takes 5 damage to Left Torso, 0/8 Armour, 4/5 Structure remaining. Critical Chance! --Critical Chance in Left Torso! No Critical Hits sustained. -Fires Medium Laser at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 5, rolls 11: Hits Right Torso! Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) takes 5 damage to Right Torso, 1/8 Armour remaining. -Fires SRM-6 at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 5, rolls 11: 2 Missiles Hit! Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) takes 2 damage to Left Leg (2/6 Armour remaining) and Centre Torso (0/8 Armour remaining). Weapons fire for Gladiator GLD-4R (Player): -Fires PPC at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 7, rolls 4: Misses! Weapons fire for Shadow Hawk SHD-2K (Player): -Fires PPC at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 6, rolls 12: Hits Right Arm! Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) takes 10 damage to Right Arm, 0/6 Armour, 0/3 Structure remaining. Right Arm Destroyed! 3 damage transfers to Right Torso, 0/8 Armour, 3/5 Structure remaining. Critical Chance! --Critical Chance in Right Torso! One Critical Hit sustained! Critical Hit on SRM-4! -Fires LRM-5 at Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers); needs 7, rolls 8: Hits! Glancing Blow due to Narrow Profile! 1 Missile Hits Right Torso, 2/5 Structure remaining. Critical Chance! --Critical Chance in Right Torso! No Critical Hits sustained. Weapons fire for Trebuchet TBT-5S (Player): -Holds fire! -- Weapons fire for Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers): -Fires Medium Laser at Gladiator GLD-4R (Player); needs 8, rolls 3: Misses! -Fires SRM-4 at Gladiator GLD-4R (Player); needs 8, rolls 7: Misses! -Fires SRM-6 at Gladiator GLD-4R (Player); needs 8, rolls 10: 3 Missiles Hit! Gladiator GLD-4R (Player) takes 2 damage to Left Torso (17/19 Armour remaining), Left Leg (17/19 Armour remaining) and Left Torso (15/19 Armour remaining). Weapons fire for Griffin GRF-1N (Fusiliers): -Fires PPC at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 10, rolls 5: Misses! -Fires LRM-10 at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 8, rolls 3: Misses! Weapons fire for Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers): -Fires Small Laser at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 9, rolls 11: Hits Left Arm! Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) takes 3 damage to Left Arm, 9/18 Armour remaining. -Fires Medium Laser at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 7, rolls 7: Hits Left Leg! Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) takes 5 damage to Left Leg, 10/19 Armour remaining. -Fires SRM-4 at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 7, rolls 5: Misses! Weapons fire for Hunchback HBK-4H (Fusiliers): -Holds fire! Weapons fire for Wolverine WVR-6R (Fusiliers): -Fires AC/5 at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 9, rolls 11: Hits Right Arm! Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) takes 5 damage to Right Arm, 13/18 Armour remaining. -Fires Medium Laser at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 11, rolls 8: Misses! -Fires SRM-6 at Wolverine WVR-6M (Player); needs 11, rolls 8: Misses!  Physical attacks for Gladiator GLD-4R (Player): -Punches Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers) with Left Arm; needs 10, rolls 5: Misses! Physical attacks for Shadow Hawk SHD-2H (Player): -Punches Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers) with Left Arm; needs 9, rolls 6: Misses! -Punches Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers) with Right Arm; needs 9, rolls 9: Hits Centre Torso! Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers) takes 6 damage to Centre Torso, 2/8 Armour remaining. -- Physical attacks for Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers): -Kicks Gladiator GLD-4R (Player); needs 7, rolls 3: Misses!  Gladiator GLD-4R (Player) gains 12 heat, sinks 13 heat and is now at 8 heat. Overheating! Shadow Hawk SHD-2H (Player) gains 14 heat, sinks 14 heat and is now at 0 heat. Trebuchet TBT-5S (Player) gains 1 heat, sinks 1 heat and is now at 0 heat. Wolverine WVR-6M (Player) gains 12 heat, sinks 14 heat and is now at 1 heat. -- Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers) gains 12 heat, sinks 10 heat and is now at 6 heat. Overheating! Griffin GRF-1N (Fusiliers) gains 16 heat, sinks 12 heat and is now at 4 heat. Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) gains 9 heat, sinks 10 heat and is now at 1 heat. Hunchback HBK-4H (Fusiliers) gains 2 heat, sinks 2 heat and is now at 0 heat. Wolverine WVR-6R (Fusiliers) gains 11 heat, sinks 11 heat and is now at 0 heat.  Trebuchet TBT-5S (Player) finishes dumping SRM-6 Ammunition (Right Torso). -- Piloting checks for Commando COM-2D (Fusiliers): Missed a Kick: needs 6, rolls 8; Succeeds! Piloting checks for Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers): Took 20+ Damage: needs 6, rolls 9; Succeeds!  Hornet HNT-152 (Fusiliers) is retreating and will not attack unless fired upon.  Player Status  Enemy Status   Special Abilities: -Toughness: Grants bonus to consciousness rolls. -Small Pilot: Negates ‘Cramped Cockpit’ penalties. Primary Objectives: -Defeat the First Decimis Fusiliers (1/6) Secondary Objectives: -Humiliate Etienne Decimis (100,000 C-Bill reward) Next Orders Due: Saturday 30th 9:00PM GMT.
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Sep 27, 2023 07:56
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Nice, another pawn off the board Their wolverine has a good move mod but is in a really bad place, maybe we could focus everything on it and see if we get lucky? Regardless I'm thinking I'll swing my wolverine around to the right of the hill, keep me out of sight of the big guns - I think I got pretty lucky not drawing all their fire while I was basically standing still - and take some shots at it
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Sep 27, 2023 08:26
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Comedy Option: Fists of Fury - SHD - DFA the Commando GLD - DFA the HBK or jump behind and dual punch WVR - DFA the retreating Hornet, no mercy. *Don't do this, this is not financial advice
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Sep 27, 2023 08:46
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Our boy Etienne really likes preaching from his silly little hill doesn't he? Looks like my best move is 0819. Lets me shoot the Wolverine's rear (on 11s but a rear shot is a rear shot), and with the +3 move mod and intervening woods makes it impossible for the Griffin to shoot me (13 to hit if I'm reading correctly). Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 11:35
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 18:19 |
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When Etienne fires her for insubordination or whatever, you should totally hire Jeanne Turgot. And then talk her into a better 'Mech, like a Stinger.
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Sep 27, 2023 18:58
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