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I think they're gonna stick to Renna being collared and left alive. Her fate after that will likely change drastically though.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:12
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Remind me how it works, please. If a sul’dam gets collared, is it the same as a damane?
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Sep 26, 2023 03:22
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Grundulum posted:Remind me how it works, please. If a sul’dam gets collared, is it the same as a damane? Yup, it's exactly the same. Sul'dam are all people that can learn to channel, vs damane being the ones unlucky enough to have the spark that means they're going to channel no matter what. But for purposes of using the a'dam both can wear the bracelet or collar. Vs, like, a man who can channel (both drop in agony/die) or someone that can't channel at all (no effect)
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Sep 26, 2023 03:24
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Grundulum posted:Remind me how it works, please. If a sul’dam gets collared, is it the same as a damane? Collared sul'dam still can't channel until they learn how to. The collar otherwise works the same on them as damane.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:26
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A suldam that has trained enough to be able to wear the bracelet properly, mind you. Because they don't get caught by the collar when damane are tested, and then suldam are never tested again once they start training.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:26
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Grundulum posted:Remind me how it works, please. If a sul’dam gets collared, is it the same as a damane? Yes because the A'dam is essentially just a Ter'Angreal that lets one woman who can channel enslave any other woman who can channel. The Seanchan use of it is almost entirely cultural and based around the fact that there is a greater population with the latent ability to channel than people who start channeling uncontrollably. You also get to see the preview step for how they're going to handle it once it becomes common knowledge that Sul'dam can channel in some of Tuon's later conversations with Mat. Where she separates the ability to channel from actually channeling by likening it to the ability to kill versus committing murder so she can justify keeping up the massive slave empire.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:28
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Zore posted:Yes because the A'dam is essentially just a Ter'Angreal that lets one woman who can channel enslave any other woman who can channel. The Seanchan use of it is almost entirely cultural and based around the fact that there is a greater population with the latent ability to channel than people who start channeling uncontrollably. The a'dam was created by an Aes Sedai specifically to give over to Hawkwing's relatives who sailed to Seanchan. It doesn't exist in Randlands. Also the whole channeling part works by creating a forced link.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:44
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CainFortea posted:The a'dam was created by an Aes Sedai specifically to give over to Hawkwing's relatives who sailed to Seanchan. It doesn't exist in Randlands. Yeah, the BWBOBA specified it was created by one of the 'Aes Sedai' warlords over in Seanchan who tried to use it as a way to curry favor with Hawkwing's forces when they were first invading and mostly a regional power. And they immediately slapped it on her and forced her to churn out tons of them which fueled the conquest of the continent. And since there isn't a chance in hell she didn't know how it worked this is also probably where the knowledge that Sul'Dam could channel was buried and they worked out the testing to separate sparkers from learners.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:48
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Hexel posted:At the end of the day, every show does the best they can with the resources they have. It's almost universally agreed that S2 is better than S1 and there is a marked improvement in just about all aspects. I’m way more hopeful for this than I was after season 1.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:51
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i get the feeling that the show is definitely going to use the 'sul'dams can actually channel, too, they're just not immediately able to be picked out' detail as a mic drop at some point, since it's very much the kind of thing that folks like in little twists in shows.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:56
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I hope Renna ends up being the one sul’dam that Egeanin has captive in her basement.
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Sep 26, 2023 04:35
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I'm curious if Jordan had any notes about the sequel series he wanted to do with Matt in Seanchan that the showrunner might use to inform changes to the Empire-associated character's endings. Much like I doubt Liadrin will be softly written out of the show as a Seanchan slave with an inverted shield that gets forgotten because her owner is deposed, I somehow doubt they're going to leave Tuon on the note of still being totally fine with treating channelers like animals after her entire arc, or leave Eganin's fate unresolved after Egwene releases her bond, or leave Elaida as a deposed Amerlyn who is also Damane without any kind of follow-up, or any of the other weird things that were clearly left hanging for the sake of that sequel. Assuming we ever get that far, natch.
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Sep 26, 2023 05:50
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Sanguinia posted:I'm curious if Jordan had any notes about the sequel series he wanted to do with Matt in Seanchan that the showrunner might use to inform changes to the Empire-associated character's endings. Much like I doubt Liadrin will be softly written out of the show as a Seanchan slave with an inverted shield that gets forgotten because her owner is deposed, I somehow doubt they're going to leave Tuon on the note of still being totally fine with treating channelers like animals after her entire arc, or leave Eganin's fate unresolved after Egwene releases her bond, or leave Elaida as a deposed Amerlyn who is also Damane without any kind of follow-up, or any of the other weird things that were clearly left hanging for the sake of that sequel. Assuming we ever get that far, natch. According to Brandon Sanderson, regarding the notes he'd seen that Jordan had left behind for a potential sequel series, he didn't feel that there was enough there to work with for him to feel comfortable even trying to write a follow up book or books, and that's saying something because Brandon Sanderson could write a 200,000 word story on a two sentence prompt you slipped him on the back of a napkin.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:00
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Sanguinia posted:I'm curious if Jordan had any notes about the sequel series he wanted to do with Matt in Seanchan that the showrunner might use to inform changes to the Empire-associated character's endings. Much like I doubt Liadrin will be softly written out of the show as a Seanchan slave with an inverted shield that gets forgotten because her owner is deposed, I somehow doubt they're going to leave Tuon on the note of still being totally fine with treating channelers like animals after her entire arc, or leave Eganin's fate unresolved after Egwene releases her bond, or leave Elaida as a deposed Amerlyn who is also Damane without any kind of follow-up, or any of the other weird things that were clearly left hanging for the sake of that sequel. Assuming we ever get that far, natch. The only way I see them being able to work in a redemption of a sorts for them in the show is if Tuon is like a reformer, and maybe introduce a plot line where she's a long shot to get the throne, but well the forsaken/rand happens and now shes in charge. They won't have the time even if they get 8 seasons, to have that kind of foundational societal change needed, considering that everyone in Seanchan is apparently completely fine with how things are. I don't think there's a single Seanchan in the books who's like yea this poo poo is insane, but what can you do.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:06
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ad090 posted:The only way I see them being able to work in a redemption of a sorts for them in the show is if Tuon is like a reformer, and maybe introduce a plot line where she's a long shot to get the throne, but well the forsaken/rand happens and now shes in charge. They won't have the time even if they get 8 seasons, to have that kind of foundational societal change needed, considering that everyone in Seanchan is apparently completely fine with how things are. I don't think there's a single Seanchan in the books who's like yea this poo poo is insane, but what can you do. I mean Egeanin sort of gets there, but it does require her to be exiled and spend a shitload of time with Randlanders and Channelers in particular. If you give her arc to Tuon it might work honestly.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:37
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I think we are going to see a lot of people's arcs get given to other people.
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Sep 26, 2023 06:43
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Sanguinia posted:Much like I doubt Liadrin will be softly written out of the show as a Seanchan slave with an inverted shield that gets forgotten because her owner is deposed, This really was the perfect fate for her though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and fade away
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Sep 26, 2023 07:04
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:This really was the perfect fate for her though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and fade away Yeah but it doesn't really work when the TV Liandrin is a far more 3-dimensional character (I hope she gets redeemed personally)
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Sep 26, 2023 07:18
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Kind of wondering if they're setting her up for...well...maybe not a redemption but some kind of going her own way thing. She made a deal to keep her son alive. And then a forsaken not only breaks the deal, but does so by personally killing her son. There is a certain amount of "They broke the deal, so gently caress em" that can set up.
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Sep 26, 2023 07:25
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CainFortea posted:Kind of wondering if they're setting her up for...well...maybe not a redemption but some kind of going her own way thing. it could also be setting up her trying to step to Lanfear and immediately getting slapped the gently caress down after not learning her lesson the first time
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Sep 26, 2023 07:45
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She did set Nynaeve free, and people have been speculating online non-stop if that was actually to help Nynaeve or more to hurt Suroth and thereby raise her own station. I wouldn't be surprised if its actually both, or more likely that she herself isn't sure what the bigger motivation was, and I bet that ambiguity is going to be a big deal in her future.
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Sep 26, 2023 10:05
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Devorum posted:I've got some news for you about Southern Spaniards. What are the news?
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Sep 26, 2023 10:09
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Turin Turambar posted:What are the news? Many of them are of North African descent. Saying Tairens aren't black, just darker skinned, because they're based on Spain doesn't track.
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Sep 26, 2023 10:16
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Sanguinia posted:I'm curious if Jordan had any notes about the sequel series he wanted to do with Matt in Seanchan that the showrunner might use to inform changes to the Empire-associated character's endings. Much like I doubt Liadrin will be softly written out of the show as a Seanchan slave with an inverted shield that gets forgotten because her owner is deposed, I somehow doubt they're going to leave Tuon on the note of still being totally fine with treating channelers like animals after her entire arc, or leave Eganin's fate unresolved after Egwene releases her bond, or leave Elaida as a deposed Amerlyn who is also Damane without any kind of follow-up, or any of the other weird things that were clearly left hanging for the sake of that sequel. Assuming we ever get that far, natch. Tuon's arc regarding damane wasn't good, though, nor was it complete. Tuon should be much more sympathetic to them after the discovery that sul'dam can also channel because she herself is a sul'dam.
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Sep 26, 2023 10:27
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Devorum posted:Many of them are of North African descent. Saying Tairens aren't black, just darker skinned, because they're based on Spain doesn't track. I'm born (and live) in Southern Spain. His description was more accurate, I would say. We are Mediterranean, so from white, to more tanned, to sliightly brown. In general terms 'mediterranean' is slightly darker (in comparison with a Caucasian white) precisely because that North African descent. But honestly it's an almost anecdotic amount, we look like this, which is pretty different from the actual people from North Africa I know personally:  
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Sep 26, 2023 10:27
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Jedit posted:Tuon's arc regarding damane wasn't good, though, nor was it complete. Tuon should be much more sympathetic to them after the discovery that sul'dam can also channel because she herself is a sul'dam. I didn't say it was good. I do think her arc of changing certain aspects of herself and how she perceives others was more-or-less complete but it sure didn't complete itself in a good place on a lot of specific issues. Probably on purpose because Jordan was hoping to go a lot further with her over the course of that sequel about her war to return peace and unity to Seanchan. Nothing like a Civil War to address issues about slavery, especially when a bunch of the slaves you're bringing back with you are people that lived free their whole lives and your new Super-General husband who will be helping you win that war doesn't like slavery.
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Sep 26, 2023 11:02
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Sanguinia posted:She did set Nynaeve free, and people have been speculating online non-stop if that was actually to help Nynaeve or more to hurt Suroth and thereby raise her own station. I wouldn't be surprised if its actually both, or more likely that she herself isn't sure what the bigger motivation was, and I bet that ambiguity is going to be a big deal in her future. I'm gonna go with the "dark one values selfishness above all else" explanation I think That was 100% to make Suroth look bad
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Sep 26, 2023 12:44
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Sanguinia posted:I'm curious if Jordan had any notes about the sequel series he wanted to do with Matt in Seanchan The only info he left were that Mat wakes up in a gutter thinking he had gambled it all away and Perrin is sailing across the ocean thinking he has to go kill a friend. Sando revealed this in the same stream where he said Lanfear faked her death and is still alive in the 4th age.
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Sep 26, 2023 13:12
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Aw dang I never knew it was also new Perrin content 
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Sep 26, 2023 13:19
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Rarity posted:Aw dang I never knew it was also new Perrin content Faile dies in childbirth, Perrin dreams ptsd dreams, becomes a pirate. Orcas in the wolf dream, the sea wolves of manetheren sail to war.
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Sep 26, 2023 13:48
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I really hope the show just leaves Tuon out. I hate that my boy Mat gets stuck with a Nazi wife cause RJ wrote himself into a corner.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:24
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Devorum posted:Many of them are of North African descent. Saying Tairens aren't black, just darker skinned, because they're based on Spain doesn't track.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:49
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teddust posted:I really hope the show just leaves Tuon out. I hate that my boy Mat gets stuck with a Nazi wife cause RJ wrote himself into a corner. I don't think they'd cut her, but I also think that she's going to have one of the biggest shakeups of who they are as a character.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:57
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ad090 posted:The only way I see them being able to work in a redemption of a sorts for them in the show is if Tuon is like a reformer, and maybe introduce a plot line where she's a long shot to get the throne, but well the forsaken/rand happens and now shes in charge. They won't have the time even if they get 8 seasons, to have that kind of foundational societal change needed, considering that everyone in Seanchan is apparently completely fine with how things are. I don't think there's a single Seanchan in the books who's like yea this poo poo is insane, but what can you do. Yeah this never made alot of sense to me. Slavery has been with us since the Neolithic era, but it's always been a much more fluid and frankly forgiving system than the damane system, which closely resembles the American/West Indies model which is the strictest and cruelest form of slavery ever known. Partially at least due to the fact that there isn't a societally wide avenue for slaves to buy their way to freedom outside of manumission thru their owner's will. And we have so many examples of people in those systems protesting or at least voicing disgruntlement with slavery, and plenty of people that fought and died to gain freedom. Even when we look at ancestral forms of slavery, we find constant references to its immorality. The Bible is full of them. I've never been comfortable with how slavery is portrayed in the WoT series. Slaves don't uniformly accept their fate by being "broken". They fight back and escape, thru antiquity up to 1865. And slave owning societies are constantly floundering due to the intrinsic instability of trying to keep their control. Something we don't see in Randland and apparently Seanchan.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:57
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Turin Turambar posted:I'm born (and live) in Southern Spain. His description was more accurate, I would say. We are Mediterranean, so from white, to more tanned, to sliightly brown. In general terms 'mediterranean' is slightly darker (in comparison with a Caucasian white) precisely because that North African descent. But honestly it's an almost anecdotic amount, we look like this, which is pretty different from the actual people from North Africa I know personally: You look like this?  Hell yeah
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Sep 26, 2023 15:01
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Shageletic posted:I've never been comfortable with how slavery is portrayed in the WoT series. Slaves don't uniformly accept their fate by being "broken". They fight back and escape, thru antiquity up to 1865. And slave owning societies are constantly floundering due to the intrinsic instability of trying to keep their control. Something we don't see in Randland and apparently Seanchan. We see damane trying to escape, they're just not the ones conditioned from birth to accept their fate. The seanchan born damane also didn't need to be broken, they already believed that they needed to be collared for the everyone's safety including their own. It would probably be fair to presume that this was not the case at first, and that there were plenty of escape attempts. There's also the throne, a magical item that compels obedience.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:02
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I always thought the "you will marry the daughter of the nine moons" thing turning out to be just "oh here is a character whose literal honorific/title is Daughter of the Nine Moons" was just utterly  No metaphor or riddle or anything, just either you have met this person named this or you haven't
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Sep 26, 2023 15:04
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th3t00t posted:Northern Africans are not black. Someone of Mediterranean European or Northern African descent is a darker tanned white person. That depends. I know Libyan, and Egyptians that are plenty black by our western notions. But it's different out there, in a very complicated fashion.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:04
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CainFortea posted:We see damane trying to escape, they're just not the ones conditioned from birth to accept their fate. The seanchan born damane also didn't need to be broken, they already believed that they needed to be collared for the everyone's safety including their own. There are plenty of examples (literally thousands) of American slaves born to it that successfully fled their slavery. It's all very ahistorical.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:05
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Shageletic posted:There are plenty of examples (literally thousands) of American slaves born to it that successfully fled their slavery. It's all very ahistorical. They weren't born free, and conditioned by literally everyone that *if* it comes up, they pose a danger to themselves and their family.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:07
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