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Starcraft 3: Ragnasaur Eater (or Kakaru, or Ursadon, whichever of the map critters are most memorable)
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Sep 25, 2023 02:00
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Aces High posted:Starcraft 3: Ragnasaur Eater (or Kakaru, or Ursadon, whichever of the map critters are most memorable) This is just Heart of the Swarm.
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Sep 25, 2023 05:20
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It would be funny if Haven just kept getting progressively more difficult the longer the player ignored it.
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Sep 25, 2023 06:25
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Regalingualius posted:Given the totality of the circumstances around SC2’s finale, I wouldn’t be surprised if a hypothetical SC3 is a prequel, a distant enough sequel that it’s effectively a new story, or even a straight up reboot of the setting.
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Sep 25, 2023 07:18
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HannibalBarca posted:I understand that Tychus is supposed to be a deep cover agent or whatever but "hijack your handlers' gigantic war mech and use it to attack their capital" is outrageously deep cover. Tychus has got one job, and if wreaking havoc on the Dominion will get him closer to finishing that job, well, that's just a bonus for him. I don't think that Mengsk ever intended, or expected, for him to actually be any kind of intelligence asset, just a missile with a mouth. Of course, Mengsk didn't foresee the whole thing with the Tarsonis adjutant or with Raynor being quite so good at what he was doing. I'm not sure Tychus really thought it through either, who's going to keep up their end of the bargain if the Dominion and Moebius are wiped out. By the end of LotV, we know that Moebius are just a front for the Xel'naga and are pretty hard to actually get rid of, but Tychus definitely doesn't know that.
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Sep 25, 2023 11:54
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I'm fairly certain that nobody is monitoring Tychus 24/7. It makes no sense if they did. But then again, everyone seems very stupid and with gaping plot holes through their heads so who knows? 
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Sep 25, 2023 13:05
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Unit Spotlight: Wraith Overview:
Brood War introduced the Valkyrie, but those could only hit air so you still needed the Wraith for ground work. Meanwhile in SC2, we've seen both the anti-air Viking and the anti-ground Banshee, leaving the poor Wraith in the unenviable spot of jack of all trades, master of none. So, unless you're in the same position I am where the Wraith is the only unit of the trio you have unlocked, why the gently caress would you ever use it? Wraiths are a more expensive unit that deals less damage at shorter ranges. Abilities  Cloak
 Tomahawk Power Cells
This stacks with Cellular Reactor, letting a Wraith cloak for a whopping 4 minutes right out of the Starport! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcept the Banshee also has an upgrade that gives more cloak time, only it gives even more time for the same credit cost.  Displacement Field
Might, might, give your Wraiths a bit more durability. In practice, 20% odds of dodging means they'll eat poo poo and die 80% of the time, meaning you spent 125K for nothing. Field Manual Artwork 
BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 14:32
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Man, even the field manual art is dunking on it...
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Sep 25, 2023 14:39
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Yeah, you can see them trying to give it a niche as the stealth a2a, they just didn't really know what to do with that and slightly bulkier, fails 80% of the time is not the cloaking upgrade they needed to convince players to use banshee/wraith stealth raids.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:43
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NewMars posted:The odin mission's pretty fun, weird plot holes aside. Actually, the one thing that does make sense there is the Odin itself. Militaristic authoritarians love their giant, impractical superweapons. That it's full of completely impractical parts is entirely sensical if you keep in mind that it's probably supposed to be a showpiece, never made for mass production. Instead, when you make something like this, it's to show off new, experimental technology and to push the limits of what you have. What's actually interesting is that it scales down into something legitimately useable, with, presumably, no flushing toilets onboard. Reminds me of a pretty great quote from the old Star Wars books: Han Solo posted:That's not what The Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:53
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MiddleOne posted:It would be funny if Haven just kept getting progressively more difficult the longer the player ignored it. Some sort of difficulty increase or scaling in delayed missions would make the campaign more interesting because it means you can no longer completely chump some missions with units the map has no counters for. Nukes completely destroy the difficulty of missions like Haven's Fall because there's almost no detection on that map. Difficulty scaling in RTS games can be very tricky to do well, though. See: Homeworld 2. Bringing in giant robots and battlecruisers to fight a couple roaches and zerglings is its own sort of funny, though.
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Sep 25, 2023 15:24
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Natural 20 posted:Reminds me of a pretty great quote from the old Star Wars books: That's... not entirely unfair, but it's not terrifically fair either. The Sith - and the whole galaxy in general - are way too fond of superweapons to the point where you can throw a stone and find one or the legacy of one. And Palpatine was fonder of them than most. The Empire put a lot of time and resources into them which of course all get wasted when the things get exploded. But... a lot of Palpatine's superweapons did exactly what they were supposed to do, and the ones that failed were often because of Jedi intervention of one sort of another. I'm not going to go beat by beat, but for example, the 'Nostril of Palpatine' that Han names is a reference to the 'Eye of Palpatine', an asteroid converted into a massive warship, which was only delayed - not even stopped - when a Jedi used the Force to put her spirit into its main computer. Not something you could necessarily have seen coming, even for a powerful Force user like Palpatine. And the Empire didn't rely solely on those superweapons, they had an overwhelming fleet and army. An Imperial Star Destroyer was enough to single-handedly resolve nearly any situation, and they had 25,000 of them. Millions of smaller craft and fighters. So many Stormtroopers. The fact that the Rebellion managed to get anywhere is because Palpatine used the second Death Star as bait and drastically overestimated Vader's subservience to him. There's also the fact that the two big turning points of the war in question were won using Imperial tactics. Wedge 'hit them with the Empire' and destroyed their best fleet and tactician with orbital bombardment and sacrificing as much materiel as needed, including a Super Star Destroyer. And in the same book as the Han quote, they lured the Vong into a trap by leaking the info that a meeting of the heads of what was left of the New Republic and the Empire were meeting, and then ambushed the Vong with an overwhelming fleet, right out of Palpatine's playbook. (It's a cute quote, I do like it, but I'm also willing to *gestures upward* type all that.)
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Sep 25, 2023 20:19
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The simplest explanation for the killswitch in Tychus' armor is probably that it's an anti-tamper device. He's supposed to be locked in the suit, it wouldn't be a very good prison if he was just able to ask Swann to attack it with power tools.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:19
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once every 24 hours he has to input a word from a random page of the operator's manual, or the killswitch activates
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Sep 25, 2023 21:25
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Hwurmp posted:once every 24 hours he has to input a word from a random page of the operator's manual, or the killswitch activates I think this is a lot of ask of a Dominion Marine, let alone Tychus. Of course, the real reason Tychus doesn't get his leash yanked is explained in the final mission and alluded to by Cradok: He's literally a missile with a mouth. His job is to kill Kerrigan. That's 'the deal' as it were. Which is funny, because Tychus is the exact kind of person, as evidenced by his little tour of the logs about the Queen of Blades, to take this job blind. I legitimately think he had no idea what he was agreeing to. He knows what murder is, and his brain meat can conceptualize that. He doesn't understand the full implication of some infested Ghost with her psionic powers jacked to the nines and an uncountable hivemind at her beck and call. Killing Raynor just straight up isn't his problem, and Mengsk isn't expecting him to. Was this a smart plan by Mengsk? Maybe the Blizz writing team thought it was but... uh... Starcraft does a bad job of selling Mengsk as the master strategist.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:45
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Is tychus' job to kill kerrigan or kill raynor? I thought he was supposed to kill/keep an eye on raynor for mengsk.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:59
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ilmucche posted:Is tychus' job to kill kerrigan or kill raynor? I thought he was supposed to kill/keep an eye on raynor for mengsk. Answer is spoilers for the resolution of his plot, for obvious reasons: He's absolutely there to murder Kerrigan explicitly. His shipboard dialogue as you go towards end game is increasingly pleading to Raynor to drop the Kerrigan thing so they can keep a good thing going. And even before then he repeatedly pushes a little too hard to Raynor (and to himself) that she needs destroyed.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:03
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Dunno, but "having a killswitch" is a very good reason to go "I am altering the deal" as much as you could, no?
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Sep 25, 2023 22:26
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Warmachine posted:Killing Raynor just straight up isn't his problem, and Mengsk isn't expecting him to. Was this a smart plan by Mengsk? Maybe the Blizz writing team thought it was but... uh... Starcraft does a bad job of selling Mengsk as the master strategist. I don't think Mengsk is the master strategist behind this particular plan
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Sep 25, 2023 22:28
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It doesn't even really have to be a brilliant plan, so much as a lucky one among potentially many. Tychus is pretty much just an opportunistic shot at Kerrigan by assuming Raynor would be unable to keep from getting himself involved, which isn't a bad bet on Mengsk's part. Raynor's good at making stupid poo poo work and getting his rear end in and out of ugly situations. Resource-wise, it's a fairly light commitment compared to the main plan of Have Lots Of Guns.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:40
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Mengsk has left Raynor alone because Raynor has spent the past four years pickling his liver and generally not being a threat, becoming a great source of boogeymen for the Dominion for Mengsk to fearmonger with.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:18
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Well that too, but you don't bother with even this minor effort unless you think something might actually come of it.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:24
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 NICE!
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Sep 26, 2023 14:24
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Regarding that endgame twist that you probably figured out already It’s incredibly ironic that by every sane measure, the deal’s problem is that he’s been ordered to kill literally the most dangerous living thing known to exist, but that succeeding would be a good thing for Raynor and Mengsk alike. There probably isn’t anyone that wouldn’t want Kerrigan dead in a ditch save for her by this point. (Okay, Raynor is pinning for what once was, but he’s not stupid enough to think that saving her is remotely possible.) Either he fails and dies, in which case that’s one less problem for Mengsk, or he somehow succeeds and losing his leverage doesn’t matter because he’s too busy celebrating the death of the Queen of Blades to care. Right now, Raynor squashing his biggest threat for him would be a truly massive victory, with the bonus that Raynor would feel the same way. Everyone wins in this scenario! The only problem is that Raynor was handed a **Prophecy** and also a vision from the Overmind that states literally everyone dies to DARK VOICE unless Kerrigan stays alive. Suddenly, now the incredibly stupid gambit of “save Kerrigan” becomes the only valid option. Sure, failure means the Zerg are free to run rampant on Terran worlds once again, but killing her just trades “death by acid and teeth” to “death by the Hybrids driving you insane with endless dialogue oh my god just shut up already” Basically the only reason this is an actual problem is because the writing of this game’s main plot sucks. Also a reminder that Wraiths always sucked. People remember them as good only because Protoss Scouts were even worse than Wraiths (so they took second place instead of third by default) and because they could melt other fliers while cloaked if detectors weren’t present. Too bad Valkyries, Goliaths, and Missile Turrets do that job better. Imagine having worse DPS against ground units than your faction’s worker unit
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Sep 26, 2023 16:56
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Even the prophecy, as lazy a device as it is, doesn't necessarily kill the story - you could always have Raynor go "screw it", kill Kerrigan (which would have the added bonus of him not going through a massive character retcon from SC1 to 2) and leave the galaxy left in a state of uncertainty that could build a proper atmosphere of a doomed battle against fate itself and a gradual discovery that prophecies can be misenterpreted or straight-up bullshit. I'd argue this game's story still has stakes at this point and it wouldn't be so hard to turn it in a more interesting direction - until a certain deus ex machina character shows up near the end. That character's appearance is what, for me, killed any potential the story might've had and removed any interest in its further developments. Hell, I haven't even played LotV but am decently sure I can predict how it's gonna go.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:19
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Considering Kerrigan's presumed interest in staying alive, you could always have the prophecy be her doing. She just uploaded it to a bunch of old Xel'naga laptops, left "clues" leading to some of them, and then let Kerrigan and Raynor's credulity trick them into believing that she was a necessary pillar of reality while she, I don't know, teaches Ultralisks to play fetch and mines Bitcoin on her Overlords.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:48
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PurpleXVI posted:mines Bitcoin on her Overlords. So that’s why they can’t become innate detectors any more… 
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Sep 26, 2023 17:58
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disposablewords posted:Well that too, but you don't bother with even this minor effort unless you think something might actually come of it. As we'll see there's reasons why Mengsk would choose now specifically to do this, and Raynor is actually a super logical answer to a certain problem that will come up.
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Sep 26, 2023 18:08
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anilEhilated posted:I'd argue this game's story still has stakes at this point and it wouldn't be so hard to turn it in a more interesting direction - until a certain deus ex machina character shows up near the end. That character's appearance is what, for me, killed any potential the story might've had and removed any interest in its further developments. Who's that?
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Sep 26, 2023 18:58
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GunnerJ posted:Who's that?
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Sep 26, 2023 19:20
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anilEhilated posted:Even the prophecy, as lazy a device as it is, doesn't necessarily kill the story - you could always have Raynor go "screw it", kill Kerrigan (which would have the added bonus of him not going through a massive character retcon from SC1 to 2) and leave the galaxy left in a state of uncertainty that could build a proper atmosphere of a doomed battle against fate itself and a gradual discovery that prophecies can be misenterpreted or straight-up bullshit. Prophecies always kill stories unless your name is Frank Herbert. Hindsight yadda yadda but man. Even with the trashpile premises actiblizz started this story with, a competent writer still had many possible paths to salvage things, and none of them were taken. Kerrigan pulling off that sort of ridiculously convoluted plan would have been amazing. In-character, too.
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Sep 26, 2023 19:44
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anilEhilated posted:Mengsk Junior. Who's one of the few bright spots in the story for me. But we can discuss them when the LP gets to this point I think. I just find it interesting that you're so down on them.
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Sep 26, 2023 19:52
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the Orb of Zot posted:Regarding that endgame twist that you probably figured out already I have a hard time putting my finger on exactly what parts give me this feeling, but Heart and Legacy both leave me feeling like the writers, rather than working from a coherent story outline and plot, were making it up as each game was greenlit. The artifact just feels like plot keys the writers reached for when they needed some glue to hold their TOTALLY COOL ORIGINAL STORY PLOT together. It's a zerg-zapper! It cures Kerrigan! Wait no, it stole Kerrigan's power and transferred it to Amon! It's also a map! And an anti-radiation shield! And a god-soul-vacuum! gently caress me running, can it make coffee and give me a foot massage too? I think, as stories, the SC2 plots are all less than the sum of their parts. Also gently caress you Bisby, this stupid LP made me interested in playing SC2 again and I'm just wrapping up Legacy. Fortunately (?) I bought all the poo poo except Nova years ago.
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Sep 26, 2023 19:59
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anilEhilated posted:Even the prophecy, as lazy a device as it is, doesn't necessarily kill the story - you could always have Raynor go "screw it", kill Kerrigan (which would have the added bonus of him not going through a massive character retcon from SC1 to 2) and leave the galaxy left in a state of uncertainty that could build a proper atmosphere of a doomed battle against fate itself and a gradual discovery that prophecies can be misenterpreted or straight-up bullshit. This is literally the plot of Starcraft Universe, the fan-made SC2 MMO that Blizzard provided a bunch of writer support to.
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Sep 26, 2023 20:47
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Kith posted:This is literally the plot of Starcraft Universe, the fan-made SC2 MMO that Blizzard provided a bunch of writer support to. Hell, they got Tassadar's original Voice Actor to do at least one of the trailers. No idea if he did anything more for it.
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Sep 26, 2023 20:58
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the Orb of Zot posted:Also a reminder that Wraiths always sucked. People remember them as good only because Protoss Scouts were even worse than Wraiths (so they took second place instead of third by default) and because they could melt other fliers while cloaked if detectors weren’t present. Too bad Valkyries, Goliaths, and Missile Turrets do that job better. They had a niche in multiplayer - the Korean pro scene called them "paper planes" because they were fragile, but very microable. Most memorably in TvT they were sometimes used for worker harassment, or to shift the balance of power on the front line of siege tank/vulture mechanized trench warfare. If you built a couple wraiths you could dictate the engagements, and ideally make your opponent invest more into missile turrets than you invest into the wraith + starport.
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Sep 26, 2023 21:58
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Warmachine posted:Also gently caress you Bisby, this stupid LP made me interested in playing SC2 again and I'm just wrapping up Legacy. Fortunately (?) I bought all the poo poo except Nova years ago. Same and same. Pity that the last mission is such a goddamn letdown.
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Sep 26, 2023 22:03
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Warmachine posted:Also gently caress you Bisby, this stupid LP made me interested in playing SC2 again and I'm just wrapping up Legacy. Fortunately (?) I bought all the poo poo except Nova years ago. Xarn posted:Same and same. I live to serve.
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Sep 27, 2023 03:16
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Xarn posted:Same and same. All I can say is that the gameplay itself still holds up. No notes, SC/BW/2 are the gold standard of RTS gameplay in my opinion. Its very simple at the highest level, with complexity coming from how all the simple parts interact. The problem, I think, I have with the campaigns is that they're fundamentally not "Starcraft." The symptoms of this are things like Hellions being near-useless in the campaign because there's no opportunities for harassment to get ahead. Why? Because assuming the computer has a base on the map at all, it starts as a late-game death base while you're starting from what is only slightly better than the 5 workers 1 HQ start of a melee match. There's no opportunity in the campaign for a lot of the match-defining actions of a melee match like scouting and harassment to pay off. It's very rare where a campaign mission even gives you an expansion base location (natural or otherwise), let alone a need to actually build the expansion. Heart and Legacy are a bit better about this than Wings, but uh... looking at it from this perspective, I think I understand where the "no rush" custom game style came from. If you only play the campaign, then jump straight into ladder/semi-competitive play, you WILL get your rear end beat just by the fact that the campaign doesn't really teach you to play Starcraft--it teaches you to play the campaign.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:24
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Warmachine posted:All I can say is that the gameplay itself still holds up. No notes, SC/BW/2 are the gold standard of RTS gameplay in my opinion. Its very simple at the highest level, with complexity coming from how all the simple parts interact. I think Heart ironically ends up weaker primarily because of this because it's just so easy in that game to two base Hydra Roach and kill everything on the map without breaking a sweat.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:35
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