USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Twincityhacker posted:

...I'm kinda confused on where they think the trash will *go* after the landfills close. Even if you somehow massively reduce the amount of waste produced overnight and there is still going to be some that cannot be reduced or replaced with recycled goods - and I can't imagine that "incineration" would be very popular either.

Oh those also all get shut down.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:04

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# ? May 25, 2024 08:01

Twincityhacker: Feb 18, 2011

...so they really want us to go back to glass medical equipment and have the only options for disposible gloves being latex?

gently caress the amount of spreading infectious disease with badly cleaned equipment that will cause and people with latex allergies I guess.

EDIT: Sorry. I just can't get over "and there will be no waste" like there aren't literal millenia old garbage pits on six continents. Even when everything was made by hand out of natural materials, sometimes things got too hosed to fix.

Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 27, 2023

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:10

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

Yeah, while it's absolutely true that there are Green Party positions that would never fly in a Democratic primary, they're funnily enough not the "tax the rich, provide universal healthcare and college, and reform the judicial system" kinds. They're this kind.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:20

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

just in case folks missed it, this feels like a big enough story to post outside of trump legal thread

judge in new york civil case issued a partial summary judgment finding that trump did commit fraud, and ordering a cancelation of trump org business licenses, and sanctions for trump legal team

quote:

A New York judge has found Donald Trump and his adult sons liable for fraud, saying the Trumps provided false financial statements for roughly a decade.

Judge Arthur Engoron�s ruling came days before the civil case involving the New York attorney general�s office and the former president was set to go to trial.

Engoron granted Attorney General Letitia James� motion for summary judgment, finding Trump, his sons, and others �to be liable as a matter of law for persistent violations� of New York state law. He found the financial statements the Trumps provided to lenders and insurers for about a decade to be false and said they repeatedly engaged in fraud.

The decision is a blow to Trump and a complete rejection of his arguments that he didn�t inflate the values of his golf courses, hotels, homes at Mar-a-Lago and Seven Springs on financial statements that were repeatedly used in business.

The attorney general has sought $250 million in damages, a ban on the Trumps from serving as officers of a business in New York, and to stop the company from engaging in business transaction for five years.

Among other things, Trump is accused of inflating the value of his triplex apartment at Trump Tower by three times its size, resulting in an overvaluation of between $114 million to $207 million, Engoron wrote.

�A discrepancy of this order of magnified, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,� Engoron wrote.

�Exacerbating defendants� obstreperous conduct is their continued reliance on bogus arguments, in papers and oral argument,� Engoron wrote. �In defendants� world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air; a disclaimer by one party casting responsibility on another party exonerates the other party�s lies ��

The judge added: �That is a fantasy world, not the real world.�

The state supreme court judge likened the Trumps� legal defense of his fraudulent financial statements to a Chico Marx line in the comedy �Duck Soup�: �Well, who ya gonna believe, me or your own eyes?�

Trump�s attorney Christopher Kise called the ruling �completely disconnected from the facts and governing law.�

He added: �While the full impact of the decision remains unclear, what is clear is that President Trump and his family will seek all available appellate remedies to rectify this miscarriage of justice.�

In a statement on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, Eric Trump said: �Today, I lost all faith in the New York legal system. Never before have I seen such hatred toward one person by a judge - a coordinated effort with the Attorney General to destroy a man�s life, company and accomplishments. We have run an exceptional company - never missing a loan payment, making banks hundreds of millions of dollars, developing some of the most iconic assets in the world. Yet today, the persecution of our family continues��

James has alleged that Trump, three of his children, his companies and his business executives defrauded lenders, insurers and other entities. (An appeals court dismissed Trump�s eldest daughter, Ivanka, as a co-defendant from the case in June.)

In the lawsuit, James claims that Trump reaped a �substantial� financial benefit by putting forward faulty information in his financial statements, including $150 million in the form of favorable interest rates he obtained from the banks that the attorney general said his team misled.

In the order, the judge rejected Trump�s deposition testimony in which the former president said that the financial statements were not fraudulent because they contained disclaimers. Trump said the statements contained a �worthless clause� in them warning lenders and others that they shouldn�t be relied on.

Tuesday, the judge said that �the defendants� reliance on these �worthless� disclaimers is worthless.�

The ruling means the attorney general�s office won on its first two claims and will receive some amount of disgorgement to be determined at trial. The case will still proceed to trial but the attorney general�s office won�t need to prove the financial statements are false as they seek to hold him and his sons liable for insurance fraud and false business records.

not really touched on in the article are these portions of the judge's decision

quote:

Sactionable Conduct for Frivolous Motion Practice

In respons to both OAG's request for a preliminary injunction and to defendants' motions to dismiss, this Court rejected every one of the aformentioned arguments. In rejecting such arguments for the second time, this Court cautioned that "sophisticated counsel should have known better." However, the Court declined to impose sanctions, believing it had "made its point".

Apparently, the point was not recieved.

One would not know from reading defendants' papers that this Court has already twice ruled against these arguments, called them frivolous, and twice been affirmed by the First Department.

emphasis are in the original. the judge's order includes sanctions amounting to $7.5k each for five of trump's lawyers. not much in the scheme of things, but certainly embarrassing

finally the judge orders all business certificates filed on behalf of trump or his sons are canceled and that within 10 days of the order potential independent receivers be nominated to manage the dissolution of the canceled llcs

i'm a legal layman, so i could be missing important context, but it seems like the biggest consequence the trump family has faced to date

edit:order is here if folks want to read. the judge really reads as pissed at trump and his team on multiple points

GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 27, 2023

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:27

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Yes and the big boy has lost his mind over it, he�s gonna stroke out

https://twitter.com/marklevinshow/status/1706814903133036713

Lmao at him taking particular exception to the undervaluation of MAL by about $1.7bn

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:30

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Discendo Vox posted:

edit: lol this is an entire bullet point with zero further explanation, separate from all of more specific international positions:

Sounds good; would be incredible if, after half a century, the USA managed to do this.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:33

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Killer robot posted:

Yeah, while it's absolutely true that there are Green Party positions that would never fly in a Democratic primary, they're funnily enough not the "tax the rich,

quote:

Democrats will take action to reverse the Trump Administration�s tax cuts benefiting the wealthiest Americans and rewarding corporations for shipping American jobs overseas. We will crack down on overseas tax havens and close loopholes that are exploited by the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations. We will make sure the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes. We will make sure investors pay the same tax rates as workers and bring an end to expensive and unproductive tax loopholes, including the carried interest loophole. Corporate tax rates, which were cut sharply by the 2017 Republican tax cut, must be raised, and �trickle-down� tax cuts must be rejected. Estate taxes should also be raised back to the historical norm.

Killer robot posted:

provide universal healthcare

quote:

Democrats have fought to achieve universal health care for a century. We are proud to be the party of Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act. Because of the Obama-Biden Administration and the Affordable Care Act, more than 100 million Americans with pre-existing conditions, from heart disease to asthma, are secure in the knowledge that insurance companies can no longer discriminate against them. Women can no longer be charged more than men just because of their gender. And more Americans are able to get health coverage than ever before.

Democrats will keep up the fight until all Americans can access secure, affordable, high-quality health insurance�because as Democrats, we fundamentally believe health care is a right for all, not a privilege for the few.

Unfortunately, at every turn, Democrats� efforts to guarantee health coverage have been met by obstruction and opposition from the Republican Party. It has been Republicans who have embraced junk plans that undermine protections for pre-existing conditions. It was Republican state attorneys general who sued to block Medicaid expansion and Republican governors who refused to extend Medicaid coverage to their citizens, leaving millions of low-income Americans, disproportionately people of color, unable to access health coverage. And in the midst of the worst global pandemic in generations�one that has left more than 150,000 Americans dead and counting�the Trump Administration is fighting in court to invalidate the entirety of the Affordable Care Act and eliminate insurance for tens of millions of people. Overturning the Affordable Care Act remains a central plank of the Republican Party platform. The difference in values between the two parties on this life-or-death issue could not be more stark.

The COVID-19 pandemic has made this difference in values painfully, brutally clear. President Trump has repeatedly downplayed the threat of the coronavirus, bullied governors for enacting life-saving public health measures, and left our frontline health care heroes without the equipment they need to protect themselves and the American people. The burdens of this pandemic have not been borne equally, as communities of color have suffered higher rates of infection and death, and struggled to access life-saving care when they need it most. Our essential workers have been deemed expendable by the President and his Administration.

As Democrats, we say with one voice: no more.

We are going to at last build the health care system the American people have always deserved: one that finally provides universal health care coverage; reduces prescription drug prices, premiums, and out-of-pocket costs; reins in overall health care expenses; and tackles the deep-seated inequities in our health care system. We will build a health care system that is driven by the needs of patients and the people who care for them, instead of the profit motives of corporations. We will tackle entrenched racial disparities in health care, reduce prescription drug prices by standing up to big pharmaceutical companies, and make it easier to access mental health and substance use disorder treatment and long-term services and supports in metropolitan and rural areas alike.

Democrats will always fight to save Americans� lives by making it easier and more affordable to go to the doctor, get prescription medicines, and access preventive testing and treatments.

Generations of Democrats have been united in the fight for universal health care. We are proud our party welcomes advocates who want to build on and strengthen the Affordable Care Act and those who support a Medicare for All approach; all are critical to ensuring that health care is a human right.

Securing Universal Health Care Through a Public Option
Democrats believe we need to protect, strengthen, and build upon our bedrock health care programs, including the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Veterans Affairs (VA) system. Private insurers need real competition to ensure they have incentive to provide affordable, quality coverage to every American.

To achieve that objective, we will give all Americans the choice to select a high-quality, affordable public option through the Affordable Care Act marketplace. The public option will provide at least one plan choice without deductibles; will be administered by CMS, not private companies; and will cover all primary care without any co-payments and control costs for other treatments by negotiating prices with doctors and hospitals, just like Medicare does on behalf of older people.

Killer robot posted:

and college,

quote:

Making Higher Education Affordable and Accessible
Democrats believe that everyone should be able to earn a degree beyond high school, if they choose to, without money standing in the way. That is why we will make public colleges and universities tuition-free for students whose families earn less than $125,000�roughly 80 percent of the American people. We will double the maximum Pell Grant award for low-income students, and double federal support for TRIO programs that help first-generation college students, students with disabilities, veterans, and other underrepresented groups apply to and complete college.

HBCUs, MSIs, and TCUs serve a disproportionate number of low-income students who might otherwise be unable to access a college degree, and yet these vital institutions are chronically under-resourced. Democrats will work to provide grants to HBCUs, MSIs, and TCUs to lower student costs, increase academic research capabilities, and ensure these essential institutions can continue to thrive in the future.

Democrats support making community colleges and trade schools tuition-free for all students, including Dreamers. Our nation�s network of two-year community colleges provides accessible, high-quality education for students of all ages. Democrats will additionally support and expand pre-apprenticeship opportunities and registered apprenticeships with formal worker representation in program development to provide a clear pathway to high-quality jobs that does not require attending college.

We will increase federal support for services like child care on college campuses, so more students are able to balance the demands of school and family and graduate with degrees. Democrats also support increased funding for wraparound services, including covering the cost of textbooks and fees for low-income students and establishing programs to address campus food insecurity, so students can focus on what matters most: their studies.

Democrats will fight to create a federal funding program for higher education, modeled on Title I funding for K-12 schools, that would direct funds to public and nonprofit colleges and universities and minority-serving institutions based on the proportion of low-income students those schools enroll and graduate. We will promote transparency and fairness regarding higher education faculty working conditions, including adjuncts, graduate employees, and full-time lecturers who are often grossly underpaid compared to full professors, and support and encourage professor tenure. And Democrats will safeguard academic freedom on college campuses.

Killer robot posted:

and reform the judicial system" kinds. They're this kind.

quote:

The Republican Party has packed our federal courts with unqualified, partisan judges who consistently rule for corporations, the wealthy, and Republican interests. They have undermined the legitimacy of our courts through an anti-democratic, win-at-all costs campaign that includes blocking a Democratic president from appointing a justice to the Supreme Court and obstructing dozens of diverse lower-court nominees. The Democratic Party recognizes the need for structural court reforms to increase transparency and accountability.

And that's just 2020 platform language, not even getting into specific bills or actions.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 27, 2023

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:39

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

zoux posted:

Yes and the big boy has lost his mind over it, he�s gonna stroke out

https://twitter.com/marklevinshow/status/1706814903133036713

Lmao at him taking particular exception to the undervaluation of MAL by about $1.7bn

this number is based on the opinion of a realtor that trump's team brought in, it seems like he just kind of pulled it out of thin air. the judge essentially calls it obvious bullshit that can be ignored

also worth noting is trump's defense for ignoring the use restrictions written into the deed in valuing the property is that he's pretty sure he can get the florida courts to rule in his favor

the whole thing is a fun read

# ? Sep 27, 2023 01:42

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

I think it's true that Mar a Lago is worth slightly less than the Empire State Building.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 02:01

Twincityhacker: Feb 18, 2011

I think this case proves that Ivanka really *is* the smartest Trump as she got her involvement thrown out.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 02:15

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

all the women are the smarter than Don, Jr, and Eric.

even the dead one.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 03:59

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

i'm dying over the 'if i intend to bribe a judge in the future, it's not illegal' bit. just lmao

e: to be fair to Moens, he probably *could* find a Saudi who's willing to park a billion dollars into Trump...between friends, of course.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:20

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

James Garfield posted:

DSA has more members elected than the green party, in higher offices, and isn't a possible spoiler in close elections.

And what do they have to show for it? So far the DSA's accomplishments are:

1. killing the progressive parts of BBB at the command of the ghouls
2. strikebreaking
3. crocodile tears while voting to mulch Palestinians
4. sad photo ops at the still-operational border camps
5. epic clapbacks on the twitters and at the fancy parties they get invited to now that they've been consumed by the establishment

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:22

Staluigi: Jun 22, 2021

Barron i know u are still in middle school or whatever (idk i don't talk to au pairs as a rule) but im a gon need u to start doing some business things for daddy officially as of close of business day. OK barron has daddy ever taught you what a deposition is

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:25

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Staluigi posted:

Barron i know u are still in middle school or whatever (idk i don't talk to au pairs as a rule) but im a gon need u to start doing some business things for daddy officially as of close of business day. OK barron has daddy ever taught you what a deposition is

Do you think he just steps over Tiffany like she�s not even there? She�s the Mike Reagan of the Trump family.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:29

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Tiny Timbs posted:

How will they be doing it in a way that won�t easily be reversed in the near future?

I have some bad news about "unitary executive theory" and how the next Republican president will use it to dissolve any federal agencies and overturn any agency-authored regulations they personally disapprove of.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:33

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

A weird thing is that Jessica Rosenworcel, the chairwoman of the FCC, is the sister of the drummer from the band Guster

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:37

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Byzantine posted:

And what do they have to show for it? So far the DSA's accomplishments are:

1. killing the progressive parts of BBB at the command of the ghouls
2. strikebreaking
3. crocodile tears while voting to mulch Palestinians
4. sad photo ops at the still-operational border camps
5. epic clapbacks on the twitters and at the fancy parties they get invited to now that they've been consumed by the establishment

Yeah and that's still more than the greens.

Like I said, people seem to get real vague on step 2 of the "get a third party viable" part.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:44

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

James Garfield posted:

DSA has more members elected than the green party, in higher offices, and isn't a possible spoiler in close elections. The only thing the green party does better than DSA is grifting.

I'm a little confused on your comparison. Aren't most of the DSA members also part of the (whatever local) Democratic party and not a third party, like the Green Party? I'm not super knowledgeable about them, but at least in Minneapolis we have city council candidates who are both DFL (the state Democratic party) and DSA endorsed.

E: Unless I'm mistaking your point and you're comparing working within the Democratic party vs outside of that party

Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Sep 27, 2023

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:53

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

Glazius posted:

I have some bad news about "unitary executive theory" and how the next Republican president will use it to dissolve any federal agencies and overturn any agency-authored regulations they personally disapprove of.

As it turns out "How do we vote for good things that can't get undone if we stop" is a lot like "how do I shower in a way that I don't get dirty again when I stop" and it doesn't particularly matter what policy is being discussed.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 04:56

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Tiny Timbs posted:

How will they be doing it in a way that won’t easily be reversed in the near future?

Isn't that a bit of a silly question? If it were easy to do in a way that couldn't easily be reversed, then the Trump administration would have done it that way, and therefore the Biden administration wouldn't be easily* reversing the Trump administration's actions.

*You say "easily", but if it were actually easy, then it would have happened in 2021, not 2023. And this is just starting the rulemaking process, which will likely take a few months before the change actually hits.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 05:38

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

Kalit posted:

I'm a little confused on your comparison. Aren't most of the DSA members also part of the (whatever local) Democratic party and not a third party, like the Green Party? I'm not super knowledgeable about them, but at least in Minneapolis we have city council candidates who are both DFL (the state Democratic party) and DSA endorsed.

E: Unless I'm mistaking your point and you're comparing working within the Democratic party vs outside of that party

The edit is what I'm saying, DSA is more successful than the green party because being a third party within one of the major parties is a strategy that works in our political system.

(I don't know if DSA chose that strategy or it was just the candidates, but you get the point)

# ? Sep 27, 2023 07:30

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

the only regret I have with the change of the seasons is the losing out on the summer thread title, because i witnessed the YOU GOBLIN rear end WEIRDOS story live and it still makes me laugh

# ? Sep 27, 2023 08:13

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

zoux posted:

I think it's true that Mar a Lago is worth slightly less than the Empire State Building.

ESB is probably not going to be swallowed by the sea in a couple of decades, but otherwise I can't tell a difference.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 09:20

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Nenonen posted:

ESB is probably not going to be swallowed by the sea in a couple of decades, but otherwise I can't tell a difference.

Citation needed

# ? Sep 27, 2023 10:45

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Neurolimal posted:

Or don't vote, who cares.

Me. Having incompetents who won't help us is immensely better than having people actively voting for the Make It Legal To Hunt Minorities For Sport Act in state and local government

I kinda assume people who think nothing matters dems bad i am very smart are all living in blue states where it actually doesn't matter

# ? Sep 27, 2023 10:57

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Can't post for 3 hours!

rscott posted:

So it (predictably) turns out that retail theft is basically the same as it has been for the last 5 years or so. Total shrink is up a lot this year, but so are retail sales so the ratio is more or less right where it's always been, ~1.5%. External theft (a.k.a the stuff the NY Post and Fox News love to shove in everyone's face) accounts for like 37% of that total.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/organized-retail-crime-and-theft-not-increasing-much-nrf-study-finds.html

I wonder if the breathless reporting on roving gangs of shoplifters will point this out? (Probably not!)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/business/target-retail-theft-store-closures/index.html

Target says it will close nine stores in major cities across four states because of theft and organized crime

# ? Sep 27, 2023 12:17

Victar: Nov 8, 2009; Bored? Need something to read while camping Time-Lost Protodrake?

www.vicfanfic.com

I made a token effort to look into retailer efforts to prevent organized retail theft, in non-luxury stores where it's a problem.

One measure is to lock up stuff like deodorant, laundry detergent, socks, etc.

This isn't a cure-all, because now customers have to get a store worker to unlock stuff for them whenever they want to buy anything. Delays and frustrations result in customers making fewer impulse purchases (arguably a good thing for them, but not so good for the store), or just avoiding the store that locks everyday stuff up as much as possible. The store also has to spend more overhead on these locking systems and the people to maintain them.

Another measure is to design the store with only one entrance and one exit, which may not be very wide. This worries me because I figure it's only a matter of time before there's a fire or a crowd stampede and people die because the exit is restricted.

Home Depot was experimenting with a measure that some of their products simply do not work at all unless they're properly scanned and unlocked at the register. This method would only work for certain special tools, not items like detergent that are innately functional.

One suggestion I read from a random online person is that stores could transfer to paid membership models like Costco has - no paid membership, no entry. This has its own problems; a lot of people can't afford a paid store membership, which may in turn prevent a store from ever getting the customers it needs to stay in business.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 13:49

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

I wonder if it would ever reach a point where the capitalists would realize that if they played a role in improving the conditions of life for all people, there would be less theft and perhaps they would not eventually be destroyed by a desperate underclass.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:33

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

If I found a store that was locking up basic grocery items I absolutely would not shop there. Waiting half an hour for the one floor employee to give me some deodorant and then having to repeat the process for every other item on my list is insanity. Sucks for those that only have that option for sure.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:36

shoeberto: Jun 13, 2020; which way to the MACHINES?

The Walmarts near me appear to have done a lot more to curb shoplifting. Like the self checkouts aren't separate lanes, they're in a special boxed-in area with only one entrance and exit, and employees stationed to watch them. Also they inspect your receipt when you leave the store at both exits.

I don't know how pervasive this is nationally though. It's slightly annoying and I don't know how much any employees are invested in it. Seems better than locking up every day items though.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:40

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Nader might read this thread.

Ralph Nader is coming out and saying that third parties can tip elections and that people voting for the third parties can sometimes get the opposite of what they want when casting their vote.

He said he still believes in third parties in principle, but is working to dissuade people who are anti-Trump from voting third party in 2024 and helping Democrats craft their message. He has put together a 10-point plan and submitted it to various campaigns and the White House.

He says that he thinks the parties have been the same for a long time, but thinks that the rise of fascism post-Bush, that spurred even faster by Trump, is not something that is part of both parties and needs to be killed in its crib:

quote:

�I know the difference between fascism and autocracy, and I�ll take autocracy any time. Fascism is what the GOP is the architecture of, and autocracy is what the Democrats are practitioners of. But autocracy leaves an opening. They don�t suppress votes. They don�t suppress free speech.�

He says that the Greens aren't very organized and he likes Cornel West as a person and a politician, but people in swing states who vote for those values might end up empower the opposite of what they believe in and they need to weigh that when they make their choices.

Nader is talking to Democrats about having a "Plan B" if something happens to Biden before the election. He thinks Biden has been making positive strides on a lot of issues, but is still terrible on "empire" and Wall Street. He's also concerned about any unexpected health scares.

quote:

�Biden is better than he has ever been but he is still terrible on empire and Wall Street,�

And that he is, like it or not, the best option right now because he thinks Kamala Harris would be destined to lose any election and isn't a "capable" politician or leader.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1706979540789068033

quote:

Ralph Nader, wary of Trump, offers to help Joe Biden win

The political firebrand, long estranged from Democrats, fears fascism will be on the ballot in 2024 and it must be defeated

The liberal activist Ralph Nader still remembers nearly the exact words Joe Biden used to banish him from the U.S. Senate 23 years ago, after Nader�s Green Party presidential bid in 2000 won 97,000 votes in Florida.

�Ralph Nader is not going to be welcome anywhere near the corridors,� then-senator Biden had declared, blaming the consumer advocate for Democrat Al Gore�s defeat to Republican George W. Bush.

So began Nader�s long exile from Democratic Capitol Hill hideaways, where Nader had once been feted as a conquering policy genius. Nader, a spry 89-year-old who works remotely because of covid concerns, still resents the slight. But if you ask him these days about Biden�s reelection fight in 2024, he does not respond with his old gibes about Republicans and Democrats being nothing more than �Tweedledum and Tweedledee.�

�We are stuck with Biden now,� Nader says in his cantankerous way. �In a two-party duopoly, if one should be defeated ferociously, the logic is that the other one prevails.�

Former president Donald Trump is, of course, the one deserving ferocious defeat in that calculation, and for the moment Nader wants everyone to know that this has become his overriding political mission.

�I know the difference between fascism and autocracy, and I�ll take autocracy any time,� Nader said in a recent telephone interview. �Fascism is what the GOP is the architecture of, and autocracy is what the Democrats are practitioners of. But autocracy leaves an opening. They don�t suppress votes. They don�t suppress free speech.�

If the pivot matters, it is likely to land hardest among the dissident parts of the liberal coalition, who like him have been fed up for years with the state of Democratic politics and could once again play a major role if they stay home or vote third-party in a close general election. Nader is dismissive of the chances of the Green Party in 2024, despite personal praise for Cornel West, the party�s likely candidate. He speaks of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a Democratic challenger to Biden who campaigns on some of Nader�s issues, as a wayward talent unable to get out of his own way.

Nader says no formal Biden endorsement will be forthcoming, and he still supports the idea of third parties in principle. �Biden is better than he has ever been but he is still terrible on empire and Wall Street,� is about as close as he will come to complimenting the president. But the cover boy for Newsweek in 1968 and Time in 1969 has devoted himself as he approaches his tenth decade of life to, in his view, making Democrats better at being Democrats.

For months, he has been calling and snail-mailing elected officials and operatives his thoughts about how the party must improve its sales pitches. He produced a 10-point plan for improving the party�s messaging and campaign tactics last year, calling for harder punches at the GOP and more liberal policy solutions.

The response has been mostly nothing � unreturned calls he counts in the thousands, a result of resentments over his 2000, 2004 and 2008 third-party presidential campaigns. Even news outlets that used to cover his crusades have moved on. �The main press I get these days is the obituary columns,� he jokes.

But he still reads the major papers carefully every day and likes to track down the phone numbers of Democratic knife fighters he feels are wielding dull blades.

�He called me to tell me my quote wasn�t good enough,� explained one young Democratic operative, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a recent upbraiding out of the blue. �He was going to send me a bunch of materials he wanted me to read and asked for my address.�

Close friends of Nader, a group that includes committed Democrats, have noted an unmistakable shift.

�Ralph is in a different place because America is in a different place,� said Mark Green, the former Democratic New York City public advocate. �This stage is stopping a life-ending comet like the one that stopped the dinosaurs. He says this is an existential fight and he is going to marshal whatever he has to stop Trump and Trumpism.�

In practice, that means talking down the liberal challenges Biden may face in a general election.

�Bobby Kennedy gives a good portion of his speech on corporate power. And it couldn�t be better,� Nader said of the Democratic challenger to Biden, who has recently opened the door to launching a late third-party bid. �But then he has this bizarre tick on vaccines and Ashkenazi Jews,� a reference to Kennedy�s recent suggestion that covid-19 was �ethnically targeted� in a way that spared some Jews. (Kennedy later said he was not suggesting humans had deliberately engineered the virus with that goal.)

�His advisers should tell him, �Why do you keep raising these crazy things?�� Nader continued. �That�s the tragedy of his campaign. He can�t resist raising new bizarre correlations-as-causation and all that stuff.�

Kennedy�s campaign manager, former Ohio congressman Dennis Kucinich, responded by calling Nader �one of my heroes.�

�I�ll take the first part about what he said as an endorsement,� Kucinich said lightly, knowing it was not. �I�ll take the second part of what he said as a message from a friend.�

West�s campaign manager, Peter Daou, now sings from a playbook that Nader pioneered. �For too long, we�ve been told the only options are red and blue,� Daou says. �It is time we practice democracy rather than just pay it lip service.�

But Nader no longer joins in.

�Cornel West has the most complete progressive agenda. It almost doesn�t have any progressive aberrations,� Nader said. �The problem is that the Greens are not that organized. It is hardly a secret. And you can�t run a presidential campaign if you don�t have local candidates and some kind of organization round the country.�

That�s a striking thing to hear from the man who used to respond in 2000 to Democratic concerns that he was a spoiler by saying, �Both parties must feel the heat.�

�Did I learn the lesson that this was an ironclad two-party duopoly absent a farmers-level, progressive 1887 movement? Yeah. Yeah, I learned it,� he said of the 19th Century populist reaction to the shifting agricultural economy that came with railroad expansion.

As for getting his calls returned from the Biden White House or campaign, he remains pessimistic but undaunted. He still remembers being one of the first advocates to meet with Biden in 1973, back when Nader was still flying high from his crusades for auto regulations and reforms of the Federal Trade Commission. He says their relationship fell out over the Robert Bork hearings in 1987. The final break came days after the 2000 election.

''Nader cost us the election,� Biden told the New York Times.

Nader�s power to influence laws quickly eroded, and the groups he had founded, like Public Citizen, soon found themselves eclipsed as idea generators by new operations such as the Center for American Progress, which were built up by advisers to subsequent Democratic nominees like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

True to form, Nader refused to accept his punishment. He remains offended by the accusation that he cost Democrats the 2000 election in Florida. He similarly scoffs at the claims that Green Party candidate Jill Stein hurt Hillary Clinton in 2016.

�They have no idea of all the other sine qua non variables,� he says, using Latin to refer to other Democratic failures that factor in their two defeats.

And he still brims with the sort of advice most Democrats consider heresy, when spoken publicly. For instance, he says Democrats need a better plan in case something happens over the next year to prevent Biden from standing for reelection. He considers Vice President Harris �just not capable� and all but certain to lose in a general.

�Things happen rapidly in the 80′s unfortunately to human beings, so they need to have a Plan B in case something happens,� he said of Biden, who is nearly nine years his junior.

The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Sep 27, 2023

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:42

shoeberto: Jun 13, 2020; which way to the MACHINES?

Tiny Timbs posted:

If I found a store that was locking up basic grocery items I absolutely would not shop there. Waiting half an hour for the one floor employee to give me some deodorant and then having to repeat the process for every other item on my list is insanity. Sucks for those that only have that option for sure.

When my daughter was a newborn, we relied entirely on baby formula, which at the time was still facing a shortage. I was sleep deprived and driving all over hell to find any store that had any amount in supply. It was fairly frustrating to then have to flag down an employee, wait for them to get freed up and/or feel motivated enough to walk to the case, unlock it, and then get the formula so I could go home. If you make people do that for everything they are going to lose their poo poo.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:43

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Glazius posted:

I have some bad news about "unitary executive theory" and how the next Republican president will use it to dissolve any federal agencies and overturn any agency-authored regulations they personally disapprove of.

Boy howdy is this poo poo ever catching on in some of the more hardcore rightwing spaces*. The Heritage Foundation's 2025 project is downright horrifying and they love themselves some unitary executive theory powers, but only when their party gets that power. If the other party gets that power then it's illegitimate usurpation of the country away from TRUE PATRIOTS because that power is only legitimate if they have it. So they're championing totalitarian powers for the president, but only the right kind of president. Like some kind of, I dunno, single party political entity, like a state that doesn't allow any political opposition and binds all of it's power together in to one entity. Like something that can be represented by a fasces, say.

*Not actually very hardcore they're now mainstream Republican values.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:55

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

shoeberto posted:

When my daughter was a newborn, we relied entirely on baby formula, which at the time was still facing a shortage. I was sleep deprived and driving all over hell to find any store that had any amount in supply. It was fairly frustrating to then have to flag down an employee, wait for them to get freed up and/or feel motivated enough to walk to the case, unlock it, and then get the formula so I could go home. If you make people do that for everything they are going to lose their poo poo.

Or if it's not in a shortage, they will order it from Amazon.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:56

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1706979540789068033

lmao when not even Ralph Nader is willing to vote third-party in 2024...

https://twitter.com/rebekahentralgo/status/1707018301824446590

Hey it's the thing I said they were going to do! You know, lie!

quote:

Despite long standing GOP antipathy toward organized labor, since 2016 when Trump won over more union households than any GOP president since Ronald Reagan in 1980, more Republican officials are aligning themselves with striking workers � or at least aren�t being openly hostile to them. Trump, it�s worth noting, will be speaking at Drake Enterprises, a non-union shop Wednesday. Already, a range of prominent faces in the party have visited the picket lines or expressed support for UAW members, though in ways that stop short of strengthening the power of organized labor. Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri spoke to strikers at a General Motors Plant in Wentzville. Rep. John James of Michigan, who represents suburban Detroit and the Reagan Democrat bastion of Macomb County, brought hot coffee to striking workers. And Sen. J.D. Vance of Ohio has said that workers �deserve to get their end of the shake.�

I wonder where these friends of the working man stand on actual legislation relating to labor rights

https://twitter.com/metzgov/status/1706726005241741548

Ah I see.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 14:56

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

It is pretty interesting to watch Democrats and Republicans fight over labor by doing as little as possible.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 15:37

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Victar posted:

I made a token effort to look into retailer efforts to prevent organized retail theft, in non-luxury stores where it's a problem.

One measure is to lock up stuff like deodorant, laundry detergent, socks, etc.

This isn't a cure-all, because now customers have to get a store worker to unlock stuff for them whenever they want to buy anything. Delays and frustrations result in customers making fewer impulse purchases (arguably a good thing for them, but not so good for the store), or just avoiding the store that locks everyday stuff up as much as possible. The store also has to spend more overhead on these locking systems and the people to maintain them.

Another measure is to design the store with only one entrance and one exit, which may not be very wide. This worries me because I figure it's only a matter of time before there's a fire or a crowd stampede and people die because the exit is restricted.

Home Depot was experimenting with a measure that some of their products simply do not work at all unless they're properly scanned and unlocked at the register. This method would only work for certain special tools, not items like detergent that are innately functional.

One suggestion I read from a random online person is that stores could transfer to paid membership models like Costco has - no paid membership, no entry. This has its own problems; a lot of people can't afford a paid store membership, which may in turn prevent a store from ever getting the customers it needs to stay in business.

Hire adequate numbers of employees at good wages.

# ? Sep 27, 2023 15:54

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Mendrian posted:

It is pretty interesting to watch Democrats and Republicans fight over labor by doing as little as possible.

The president going to a picket line is huge. It's "the bully pulpit" which I believe is the left's preferred mode of extralegislative action, and how they were going to usher in M4A. They're also trying to pass the PRO act but they can't, I guess because they don't really want to since only the Democratic party has agency on Capitol Hill.

It certainly pissed off Obama's people
https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1706747404756635815

# ? Sep 27, 2023 16:08

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# ? May 25, 2024 08:01

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Hire adequate numbers of employees at good wages.

But what if one of those good waged workers has a kid that, because they have a parent giving them chance at a better life, bumps my kid out of their preferred college choice, huh? You ever think about the consequences for rich people?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 27, 2023 16:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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