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Civilized Fishbot
Apr 3, 2011

tokin opposition posted:

which of the naomis was the terf

Neither of them. You'd think Wolf might go that way as a UK-educated academic feminist who's pivoted to reactionary conspiracy theories, but not yet.

And before the pivot she was very anti-Trans panic

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-lgbt-history/interview-u-s-author-naomi-wolf-condemns-uks-moral-panic-on-trans-issues-idUSL8N2ID2IG

Civilized Fishbot has issued a correction as of 21:13 on Sep 27, 2023

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One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

StashAugustine posted:

It did, she just moved onto a new one

I feel like she'd be less embarassingly stupid about things if this was a calculated pivot for money.

Like, Taibbi, for example, says a bunch of dumb poo poo now, but he's not screaming on twitter because someone talked about giving a stuffed bear a vaccine.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

listening to the new Naomi Klein book, doppelgänger and it’s good as hell. completely maps out how Wolf and others like her have careers now in The Mirror World. makes sense: what were wolf’s options to still feel like a respected intellectual when she obviously cannot be that anymore because of poo poo like her book being entirely premised on false understandings of historical documents? the parallel economy of grift and strange theories is all she had left.

Klein does a fantastic job of pulling all this apart using Diagonalism, which was new to me, as the political lens to make sense of a lot of what we’re seeing, and why hippie dippy granola moms were able to make common cause with white supremacists.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/quinn-slobodian-toxic-politics-coronakspeticism/

we have diagonalist factions on this site rn, though they probably don’t recognize themselves as such, because it’s cringe poo poo

selec has issued a correction as of 22:03 on Sep 27, 2023

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

selec posted:

listening to the new Naomi Klein book, doppelgänger and it’s good as hell. completely maps out how Wolf and others like her have careers now in The Mirror World. makes sense: what were wolf’s options to still feel like a respected intellectual when she obviously cannot be that anymore because of poo poo like her book being entirely premised on false understandings of historical documents? the parallel economy of grift and strange theories is all she had left.

Klein does a fantastic job of pulling all this apart using Diagonalism, which was new to me, as the political lens to make sense of a lot of what we’re seeing, and why hippie dippy granola moms were able to make common cause with white supremacists.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/quinn-slobodian-toxic-politics-coronakspeticism/

we have diagonalist factions on this site rn, though they probably don’t recognize themselves as such, because it’s cringe poo poo

what’s diagonalism. im not going to read a book to find out

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

fart simpson posted:

what’s diagonalism. im not going to read a book to find out

It's when you poop very painfully

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

fart simpson posted:

what’s diagonalism. im not going to read a book to find out

scanned the article, seems like neither left nor right nor black nor white nor too big nor too small ie grasping for some kind of identity markers to explain why everyone is going insane when class analysis would be more helpful. idk

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

fart simpson posted:

what’s diagonalism. im not going to read a book to find out

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

selec posted:

listening to the new Naomi Klein book, doppelgänger and it’s good as hell. completely maps out how Wolf and others like her have careers now in The Mirror World. makes sense: what were wolf’s options to still feel like a respected intellectual when she obviously cannot be that anymore because of poo poo like her book being entirely premised on false understandings of historical documents? the parallel economy of grift and strange theories is all she had left.

Klein does a fantastic job of pulling all this apart using Diagonalism, which was new to me, as the political lens to make sense of a lot of what we’re seeing, and why hippie dippy granola moms were able to make common cause with white supremacists.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/quinn-slobodian-toxic-politics-coronakspeticism/

we have diagonalist factions on this site rn, though they probably don’t recognize themselves as such, because it’s cringe poo poo

name and shame em

selec
Sep 6, 2003

diagonalism as I understand it:

1. all power is conspiracy, no existing power structure is legitimate
2. the government is always lying
3. your intuitive understanding of the world is superior to what any expert you don’t agree with says.


now infest this movement with self-appointed grandiose messiah types and reflexive contrarians and it’s go.

I do think it’s different than just class politics because they are deeply orthagonal to mainstream lib/con structures. they’re mostly middle-class and more self-employed than their cohort tends to be, but they’re not so easily pinned down by standard class markers and shibboleths. they don’t look or act the same as the larger cohort in a lot of ways—not getting your kids vaccinated, for instance, is a diagonalist thing you’ll find that puts them in the minority, and divides them from standard GOP types, though their tendency to say they’re neither left nor right while staking out pretty reactionary positions on the issues they do care about makes it easy for them to be more associated by and large with right wingers, and why people with considered, serious anti-racist beliefs are harder to pull into these movements regardless of how they feel about the topics the movements do care about.

there are very good reasons for these movements springing up; I don’t agree with them in any way, but it’s obvious you shouldn’t trust the government to have your back except by accident, and the ongoing perpetuation of huge lies within our culture (like that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself) makes it easier to see why you’d go all the way with this poo poo. if a lie becomes too obvious and too intolerable, it drives some people to lengths I wouldn’t go to; it doesn’t drive some people crazy enough to me too though! my liberal dad and stepmom don’t believe Epstein killed himself, but they can’t quite bring themselves not to love the Clintons even knowing all the bullshit connecting them to him, which gives me diagonalist feelings.

selec has issued a correction as of 22:37 on Sep 27, 2023

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

HashtagGirlboss posted:

It’s funny to me because the first and second game were turn based. You could play it quasi real-time by queuing up your actions and letting the turns play out quickly, or by just trying to click along as the turns played out. But doing it the second way would have made the second half of either game relentlessly difficult. Idk. Maybe there’s more. But that’s why I lolled

BG1 and 2--Also Neverwinter Nights, Kotor, Planescape Torment, and I think Icewind Dale--were what people call "real time with pause" and yeah you could either try and do everything as stuff played out constantly pause and unpause to keep setting up actions. There's a certain kind of nostalgia to it, but honestly I think combines the worst of both systems and DnD is a fully turned based system in the first place so this is really just going back to how it's intended to be played.


Come to think of it, I think Dragon Age uses the real time with pause thing too.

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

christmas boots posted:

Come to think of it, I think Dragon Age uses the real time with pause thing too.

So do the pillars of eternity and pathfinder games, though most of those have a fully turn based option.

Rtwp made good sense for BG1 because low level 2e DnD combat didnt have much tactical depth. A lot of your party was just going to do exactly the same thing for most combat rounds in the game: swing or shoot (usually just one time) at the enemy, with a pretty high chance to miss. This is especially true in the early game, where your casters have very limited memorization.

By BG2, RTWP was pretty clearly holding crpgs back.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

selec posted:

diagonalism as I understand it:

1. all power is conspiracy, no existing power structure is legitimate
2. the government is always lying
3. your intuitive understanding of the world is superior to what any expert you don’t agree with says.


3 is dicey but 1 and 2 are mostly correct.

Put another way believing the opposite of those three just makes people completely regular democrats. who have been, are, and will continue to be wrong about most elements of government and economic policy at the cost of tens of millions of lives and untold suffering.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Best Friends posted:

3 is dicey but 1 and 2 are mostly correct.

Put another way believing the opposite of those three just makes people completely regular democrats. who have been, are, and will continue to be wrong about most elements of government and economic policy at the cost of tens of millions of lives and untold suffering.

how do you get from 1 and 2 to “they’re going to send out a signal on everyone’s phone on October 4th that activates the nanites that will control everyone who got vaccinated” though?

like, I am pretty strongly in the 1 and 2 camp but also somehow don’t believe that every single individual in the government is in on a secret that never meaningfully leaks. where do you see them going so grieviously into a ditch?

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


Anarchists everywhere itt

smdh

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

selec posted:

how do you get from 1 and 2 to “they’re going to send out a signal on everyone’s phone on October 4th that activates the nanites that will control everyone who got vaccinated” though?


I don’t, so consequently I don’t see it as a very useful framework to identify bad beliefs.

Koishi Komeiji
Mar 30, 2003



https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1707260758046752996

Typical. As soon as we get our first broad for a president everything turns to poo poo :rolleyes:

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
That's why the secret service wouldn't let him drive

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice


Milo and POTUS posted:

they're gonna start attacking vaxxed people aren't they

I mean, we had a guy wearing a KN95 blinded in one eye, we ain't far from that already.

Hedenius
Aug 23, 2007
https://twitter.com/SaraHirschhorn1/status/1707199091845759068?s=20

insane clown pussy
Jun 20, 2023

Milo and POTUS posted:

they're gonna start attacking vaxxed people aren't they

for a minute, then they'll get winded from the physical exertion due to long covid

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

self repatriation... extremely grim euphemism

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



selec posted:

how do you get from 1 and 2 to “they’re going to send out a signal on everyone’s phone on October 4th that activates the nanites that will control everyone who got vaccinated” though?

like, I am pretty strongly in the 1 and 2 camp but also somehow don’t believe that every single individual in the government is in on a secret that never meaningfully leaks. where do you see them going so grieviously into a ditch?

A big part of this "diagonalism" is the belief that every part of modernity that they don't like is part of the conspiracy, and if a person feels strongly about just one thing, they can get suckered into the rest of it. Picture one of those signs that goes "In this house, we believe: Black lives matter, trans rights are humans rights, vaccines work, etc." Someone who believes in 5 out of 6 statements on that sign has a chance to go down this rabbit hole where they start reading about their pet disagreement.

Someone starts out at feeling anxious when their baby cries while getting a vaccine, reads websites that agree with their beliefs, and ends up believing Bill Gates is making up a plandemic to sell fake vaccines. Someone is generally liberal but hates paying taxes, then they start reading anti-tax websites that claim illegal immigrants get more taxpayer dollars than homeless veterans. Then it's natural to go from that one pet issue to trusting nothing, and ending up with the ancaps who believe in nothing but individualism and property rights.

Puppy Burner
Sep 9, 2011
Or you just be terminally lib brained. An aunt of mine used to be an NDP voter but after Canada ovated an SS officer and had the anti-lgbt protests she's had to rethink her positions to better accommodate the nazis because surely all these fine people wouldn't be lying/wrong.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1707767779410010256?t=wFge-Crs85Q0o8hJkUrHUA&s=19

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008


was Orwell doing socialism when he spied for the British government

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


Road to Wigan Pier is a very modern socialist book in that it is a mostly pointless personal essay followed by lots of boring charts and a demand for votes

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

my bony fealty posted:

was Orwell doing socialism when he spied for the British government
it's crazy that he went from like really committed to the left cause to... well, that.

not actually crazy. just lovely.

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

my bony fealty posted:

was Orwell doing socialism when he spied for the British government

its called democratic socialism

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

DACK FAYDEN posted:

it's crazy that he went from like really committed to the left cause to... well, that.

not actually crazy. just lovely.

he was always really, really concerned with respectability. it was more important to be accepted by the bourgeois and those in power than it was to topple the structures that granted them power

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

lobster shirt posted:

its called democratic socialism

writing a letter to the secret police denouncing your friends and acquaintances is democratic socialist as gently caress

insane clown pussy
Jun 20, 2023

projecthalaxy posted:

Road to Wigan Pier is a very modern socialist book in that it is a mostly pointless personal essay followed by lots of boring charts and a demand for votes

he was right that socialism would never take hold in a bourgeois capitalist society because of personal disgust toward the working class

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

bedpan posted:

writing a letter to the secret police denouncing your friends and acquaintances is democratic socialist as gently caress

i agree!

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


insane clown pussy posted:

he was right that socialism would never take hold in a bourgeois capitalist society because of personal disgust toward the working class

:hmmyes:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

bedpan posted:

he was always really, really concerned with respectability. it was more important to be accepted by the bourgeois and those in power than it was to topple the structures that granted them power

:decorum: poisoning takes many forms

KORNOLOGY
Aug 9, 2006
The higher up's will never respect you. Never ever.

YaketySass
Jan 15, 2019

Blind Idiot Dog
I mean he's probably one of the most referenced figures across the political spectrum today, even if it's mostly to complain about vaccines and wokeness.

KORNOLOGY
Aug 9, 2006
Maybe he's born with it, maybe he's letting all the bankers off scott free.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

DACK FAYDEN posted:

it's crazy that he went from like really committed to the left cause to... well, that.

not actually crazy. just lovely.

He was also a colonial administrator and dabbled in wildlife management.

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


"An Asian person might chortle at me, thus omnideath for all creatures" is probably the most epically leftist and cosmopolitan thing you can say.

E: For those not clued up about epic gritty bro Orwell

projecthalaxy has issued a correction as of 16:07 on Oct 1, 2023

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tristeham
Jul 31, 2022

projecthalaxy posted:

"An Asian person might chortle at me, thus omnideath for all creatures" is probably the most epically leftist and cosmopolitan thing you can say.

E: For those not clued up about epic gritty bro Orwell

ugh

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