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Levantine posted:I will never, NEVER understand how a complete mushbrain like Trump was a United States president and is still the front runner of his party. It's just unreal to me how fundamentally unserious we are as a people to have gotten to this point. The man is self aggrandizing and never stops talking nonsense. Like no-hyperbole, actual nonsense that a normal human being wouldn't listen to in a normal setting. The fact there's a non-zero amount of people that look at Trump and think "Yes, this is a serious, manly man who is fighting for my future" is silly; the fact that the number is actually so high is honestly frightening to me. I went on a camping trip between Trump's election and inauguration. I drank a bunch of bourbon and ate a bunch of mushrooms, enough to where I thought there was a chance that the election hadn't happened yet, and I was just confused and making it up that Trump had actually won. Fun stuff.
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Sep 27, 2023 19:51
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They see him as a cross between (white) Lebron James and (white, nonwoke) Jesus so there's really no appealing to reality with them
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Sep 27, 2023 20:36
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Levantine posted:I will never, NEVER understand how a complete mushbrain like Trump was a United States president and is still the front runner of his party. It's just unreal to me how fundamentally unserious we are as a people to have gotten to this point. The man is self aggrandizing and never stops talking nonsense. Like no-hyperbole, actual nonsense that a normal human being wouldn't listen to in a normal setting. The fact there's a non-zero amount of people that look at Trump and think "Yes, this is a serious, manly man who is fighting for my future" is silly; the fact that the number is actually so high is honestly frightening to me. The Baby Boomers were raised as a coddled, unserious generation told that they deserved everything and needed to work for nothing, and then just as they were on the cusp of realizing that the world actually had hard choices and needed serious attention, we Won The Cold War and nothing ever needed to be taken seriously ever again by America's most perfect generations. So them being told for the last twenty years that, no, America isn't perfect, and no, there are major issues that need to get resolved, and no, they can't just wave a flag and support our troops and it'll all be okay has just driven them crazier and crazier because the alternative would be changing, and they're too narcissistic to change, so they'll rally around the stupid mush brain who tells them that they, like him, are god's perfect children who will never change tl;dr: the whole loving country has NPD so of course they chose the avatar of NPD to lead them
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Sep 27, 2023 21:11
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Trump embodies that Tough Guy Strong Daddy they all wish they were. Think about the fantasy version of yourself-beloved, respected, always says the right thing at the right time, triggers and scares your enemies, and never has to worry about anything bad happening to you. That's what they see in Trump, and knowing someone like that can both exist and get away with everything is encouraging to them. Conservatives love to act put upon. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture, insolent youth, evil democrats, etc. But Trump isn't held back or swayed by him. Not to mention the fact that Trump garners a very negative reaction to people conservatives hate, so chuds treat him like it's a silver cross waved at a vampire. Hence all the over the top banners and signs expressing support the telltale red MAGA hats and all that. Trumps existence makes liberals scared and upset, and that is a powerful weapon for reactionaries.
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Sep 27, 2023 21:29
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The big thing was that Trump told a bunch of working class people who had been beaten down into not voting that, yes, your lives do indeed suck. Admittedly he blamed Mexicans mostly for it but a large part of Trumps initial success I think is his willingness to say that the Country was hosed. Hillary couldn't do that because that would be criticizing Obama which is verboten by the libs so she just had mealy mouthed, build up better stuff.
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Sep 27, 2023 21:44
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I can't help but think that part of Trump's appeal is wrapped up in how actually pathetic he is while pretending that he is strong. Like a lot of the people who idolize him well beyond reason are just fundamentally insecure, and would be turned off by a more imposing and competent strongman. If it was some military guy with a square jaw and broad shoulders with a bunch of scars and real stories about being the total badass that they all worship in theory, it would just be this constant reminder that they could never live up to that image. But Trump is literally just your typical boomer, where literally the only thing that makes him special is that he also has a bunch of money. He's a non-threatening power fantasy for them, that any late 50's/early 60's middle manager could, in theory, become the most powerful and "respected" (in their eyes: feared,=) man in the world with zero changes to their lifestyle. They don't need to get in shape, or be a veteran, or even be charming at all — because that stuff is hard work, and they don't want to do it. They just need to spend too much time on Facebook posting memes about how stupid liberals are and win the lottery. Trump represents the possibility of just skipping to the good part for them, where they get to enjoy all of that accolades without having to earn anything.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:03
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Larryb posted:Even further than that, from what I've read some people raised a stink about jazz back when that was new as well. The old generation complaining about the current one has pretty much been a thing since forever
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Sep 27, 2023 22:04
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LionYeti posted:The big thing was that Trump told a bunch of working class people who had been beaten down into not voting that, yes, your lives do indeed suck. Admittedly he blamed Mexicans mostly for it but a large part of Trumps initial success I think is his willingness to say that the Country was hosed. Hillary couldn't do that because that would be criticizing Obama which is verboten by the libs so she just had mealy mouthed, build up better stuff.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:21
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I suspect that a not-insignificant portion of his supporters simply like him because he's hilarious and because his presidency wouldn't affect them much.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:27
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Generic American posted:I can't help but think that part of Trump's appeal is wrapped up in how actually pathetic he is while pretending that he is strong. Like a lot of the people who idolize him well beyond reason are just fundamentally insecure, and would be turned off by a more imposing and competent strongman. If it was some military guy with a square jaw and broad shoulders with a bunch of scars and real stories about being the total badass that they all worship in theory, it would just be this constant reminder that they could never live up to that image. Trump is essentially the perfect totem for the deeply insecure bourgeois/petit-bourgeois type, who sense they're not living up to what they imagine themselves to be but lack the wherewithal or ability to fix that and so latch onto whatever items or identity they can to mask those deep fears. See also coloration between these types and giant pavement princess pickups, and AR-15 fetishism.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:34
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Levantine posted:I will never, NEVER understand how a complete mushbrain like Trump was a United States president and is still the front runner of his party. It's just unreal to me how fundamentally unserious we are as a people to have gotten to this point. The man is self aggrandizing and never stops talking nonsense. Like no-hyperbole, actual nonsense that a normal human being wouldn't listen to in a normal setting. The fact there's a non-zero amount of people that look at Trump and think "Yes, this is a serious, manly man who is fighting for my future" is silly; the fact that the number is actually so high is honestly frightening to me.  That he's some still considered a serious presidential candidate is absolutely mindblowing. Like W getting re-elected after staring two wars and tanking the economy. Surely there's no way will choose him again after all that 
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Sep 27, 2023 22:42
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Queering Wheel posted:I suspect that a not-insignificant portion of his supporters simply like him because he's hilarious and because his presidency wouldn't affect them much. nah, it been said many times before that as long as it hurts people they hate harder and or faster they dont care if they themseleves are hurt. "im fine living with in a box, if the guy over there has no box, no trash fire, and no rats to cook."
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Sep 28, 2023 00:07
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mobby_6kl posted:Like W getting re-elected after staring two wars and tanking the economy. Surely there's no way will choose him again after all that
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Sep 28, 2023 00:37
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LionYeti posted:The big thing was that Trump told a bunch of working class people who had been beaten down into not voting that, yes, your lives do indeed suck. Admittedly he blamed Mexicans mostly for it but a large part of Trumps initial success I think is his willingness to say that the Country was hosed. Hillary couldn't do that because that would be criticizing Obama which is verboten by the libs so she just had mealy mouthed, build up better stuff. FlamingLiberal posted:Trump in a way is kind of the Mirror Bernie Sanders. Bernie was trying to use populism for good, but Trump used it for evil No, not at all, none of these things. Poor and disadvantaged people voted for Clinton in overwhelming numbers. * https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey, talking about https://www.prri.org/research/white-working-class-attitudes-economy-trade-immigration-election-donald-trump/ "White working-class voters who say they often feel like a stranger in their own land and who believe the U.S. needs protecting against foreign influence were 3.5 times more likely to favor Trump than those who did not share these concerns.... Notably, while only marginally significant at conventional levels (P<0.1), being in fair or poor financial shape actually predicted support for Hillary Clinton among white working-class Americans, rather than support for Donald Trump. Those who reported being in fair or poor financial shape were 1.7 times more likely to support Clinton, compared to those who were in better financial shape." * https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/ "[A]mong the 52 percent of voters who said economics was the most important issue in the election, Clinton beat Trump by double digits. In the vast majority of swing states, voters said they preferred Clinton on the economy. If the 2016 election had come down to economics exclusively, the working class—which, by any reasonable definition, includes the black, Hispanic, and Asian working classes, too—would have elected Hillary Clinton president." * https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...2ADF2131EFA508F "We test four common claims about the white working class in 2016: (1) that most Trump voters were white working-class Americans; (2) that most white working-class voters supported Trump; (3) that unusually large numbers of white working-class voters switched from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016; and (4) that white working-class voters were pivotal to Trump’s victory in several swing states. We find that three of the four are not supported by the available data, and the other lacks crucial context that casts doubt on the idea that Trump uniquely appealed to working-class Americans. " The people who saw themselves as "beaten down" were mostly upper middle class business owners who hated the idea that brown people were being seen as Americans. The January 6th rioters were mostly older, employed, and 40% were white collar professionals and business owners. The articles above state over and over again that racial biases and racial animosity towards minorities was one the leading indicators of someone voting Trump.
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Sep 28, 2023 00:43
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FFT posted:The economy was doing great in Bush's first term. Yeah Bush was dumb in a lot of things but he kept the war "Over there" which kept a lot of people from caring enough. Contrast the pandemic which was everyone's problem except for the 1/3rd of America that believed it wasn't real
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Sep 28, 2023 00:58
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DarklyDreaming posted:Yeah Bush was dumb in a lot of things but he kept the war "Over there" which kept a lot of people from caring enough. "He keeps/kept us safe" was a common refrain I heard from W supporters prior to the economy making GBS threads the bed with the lights on, because apparently he only became president after the second tower came down.
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Sep 28, 2023 01:12
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Trump's initial election got heavily boosted by people assuming the character he played on The Apprentice was for real, and even now he gets taken way more seriously than he is thanks to the ongoing irresponsibility of access journalism. Since then it has been just a non-stop spree of compounding rationalizations to explain why the most urgent problem America faces is a leftist cultural takeover and the only way to stop it is to re-elect the guy who's going to trash everything. Things have definitely shifted in the intervening time. For all the talk about W, I keep wondering what would happen if 9/11 happened today, in the environment of the right-wing ecosystem having the attitude that blue states can just eat poo poo and whatever happened, it was their fault for not being racist enough.
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Sep 28, 2023 01:44
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FFT posted:The economy was doing great in Bush's first term. No it wasn't, he literally oversaw the end of the dot com/tech boom. Personally I'm convinced that it was due to his bad mouthing the economy combined with his tax cuts and friendliness to off shoring which allowed the bosses to stop having to pay people who actually understood how technology works and just move all of their call centers to Bangladesh. I started the Bush years making $70k a year as a Regional Program manager for a company installing high speed internet into apartment complexes with a fat portfolio of stock options. Then the crash happened the company went out of business it took 23 years to get back to same pay before I was laid off this week. Bush was in rough shape and extremely unpopular between the crashed economy and his ill conceived and poorly timed attempt to privatize social security. In fact my first observation as the dust was still settling in New York was that this solved Bush's problems.
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Sep 28, 2023 02:03
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For a not insignificant portion of the MAGA base it all comes down to hate. Whatever flavor of hate they personally find the most compelling, Trump is there giving them permission to loudly be the lovely, petty, spiteful assholes they've always been. They've spent decades having their leadership play footsy with their hatred but not giving them open, public support while they're being shamed for using slurs, watching minorities advance in how they are treated as humans, seeing people with alternate sexualities not in the closet anymore, whatever it is that pisses them off. Whichever flavor of hate is their animating force Trump is permission to go all in on it and they're thrilled that they now have a cult of people around them that acknowledge and encourage their hate.
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Sep 28, 2023 02:09
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Skex posted:No it wasn't, he literally oversaw the end of the dot com/tech boom. Personally I'm convinced that it was due to his bad mouthing the economy combined with his tax cuts and friendliness to off shoring which allowed the bosses to stop having to pay people who actually understood how technology works and just move all of their call centers to Bangladesh. There is a reason a lot of people bought into the conspiracy, because it really did save Bush's first term in office, if 9/11 never happened, he would have been gutted in the midterms and probably not made it to a second term.
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Sep 28, 2023 03:16
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https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1707242931696935059?t=jA7cnQsCqev_Gr4yY9BWaQ&s=19
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Sep 28, 2023 07:08
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Trump paid people to show up to his UAW speech he gave at a non UAW plant. https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1707191761783710008 https://twitter.com/markmobility/status/1707331961449029841
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Sep 28, 2023 13:22
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skeleton warrior posted:The people who saw themselves as "beaten down" were mostly upper middle class business owners who hated the idea that brown people were being seen as Americans. The January 6th rioters were mostly older, employed, and 40% were white collar professionals and business owners. The articles above state over and over again that racial biases and racial animosity towards minorities was one the leading indicators of someone voting Trump. On the Jan 6 people, it's a pretty simple analysis: anyone there was of the kind able to skip work and afford a trip to DC in the middle of the week.
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Sep 28, 2023 14:31
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An apt description of Trump I've heard is: A weak person's idea of what a strong one is. A dumb person's idea of what a smart one is. A poor person's idea of what a rich one is. And it shows in everything he does and says. He is terrified of being seen as he really is: a weak petty bully, a "loving moron" in the words of his first secretary of state, and not worth what he says he is. It's so funny when red hats go "So how did Biden get so much money on a senator and then vice presidents salary?" And look away when told his tax returns are available to look at, and you can see exactly where his money came from. Meanwhile, Trump has never allowed his taxes to be seen because then we'd know he isn't worth what he says he is.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:22
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^^^that's very well put and on point^^^ Gonna steal that OgNar posted:Trump paid people to show up to his UAW speech he gave at a non UAW plant. Obviously Antifa/BLM/Soros paid plants
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Sep 28, 2023 15:43
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bird food bathtub posted:For a not insignificant portion of the MAGA base it all comes down to hate. Whatever flavor of hate they personally find the most compelling, Trump is there giving them permission to loudly be the lovely, petty, spiteful assholes they've always been. They've spent decades having their leadership play footsy with their hatred but not giving them open, public support while they're being shamed for using slurs, watching minorities advance in how they are treated as humans, seeing people with alternate sexualities not in the closet anymore, whatever it is that pisses them off. Whichever flavor of hate is their animating force Trump is permission to go all in on it and they're thrilled that they now have a cult of people around them that acknowledge and encourage their hate. Trump is an aspirational figure for selfish, small-minded abusers because he proves that you can be selfish, small-minded and abusive and still succeed. Every time Trump escapes punishment, it's a vicarious win for assholes everywhere. And they need those wins because the whole world, from the mass media to their own children, is constantly telling them how awful they are, but as long as Trump remains a free man and his smirking mug remains on the nightly news, they get to say "actually being awful is a winning strategy, it's not me who needs to change".
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Sep 28, 2023 21:38
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Right-wing media fumes over Univision anchor’s debate questions https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/28/media/univision-anchor-debate-questions-reliable-sources/index.html quote:Calderón declined to frame her questions in a manner favorable for the Republican candidates. Instead of setting them up with softball-style prompts to tee off, Calderón pressed the would-be presidents for substantive answers on an array of important subjects. The candidates struggled to respond directly, and in some cases tried to duck the questions entirely. bias, of course quote:“Florida’s new black history curriculum says, ‘Slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit,’” she said to Gov. Ron DeSantis. “You have said slaves developed skills in spite of slavery, not because of it. But many are still hurt. For the descendants of slaves, this is personal. What is your message to them?” gotcha questions quote:But the unsparing and frank manner in which she engaged with the Republican field prompted a wave of ferocious backlash from right-wing media figures watching back at home and one of Fox News’ own prime time hosts. RWM wondering why the moderator didn't ask about mandatory standing for the flag. ... I guess this sort of explains why so many of the candidates often shoe horned totally unrelated talking points into many of their answers though. A lot of times, they went on to answer a completely different question. Q: "What would you do to combat climate change?" A: "Well, let me answer that by first saying that we need to invade Mexico and arm school teachers"
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Sep 29, 2023 11:54
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BiggerBoat posted:Right-wing media fumes over Univision anchor’s debate questions Wow real debate questions? I do declare! "Our people are the toughest and bestest! Except when asked anything other than softball questions lobbed a not-friendly moderator!" I say this all the time but I do not care what your politics are, performances like this are embarrassing. I wonder what got into our water supply that made our society decide politics is a team sport.
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Sep 29, 2023 12:00
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Levantine posted:Wow real debate questions? I do declare! "Our people are the toughest and bestest! Except when asked anything other than softball questions lobbed a not-friendly moderator!" A mixture of organized religion and leaded gas.
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Sep 29, 2023 12:03
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Bel Shazar posted:A mixture of organized religion and leaded gas. It really does come off that way. During the late Clinton/early Bush years I was in my 20's and absolutely invested in changing people's minds. Now it's just impossible due to how deep seated it is for these people. My Father in Law is a nice guy, great with kids and really funny but so deep in that political tank we treat him like an Alzheimer's patient. A common occurrence with him is we'll be out to dinner and say something about how the chips and salsa are good or this steak isn't seasoned enough (basic dinner conversation) and he'll immediately pull out something like "NOT LIKE THAT JOE BIDEN! HE'S OLD!" completely out of nowhere. My Mother in Law isn't quite as bad but loves her some Trump so we just tend to ignore whatever they've said, change the subject and talk about something else. I can't tell if they notice or not.
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Sep 29, 2023 12:14
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Might be fun to make a mock list of RWM approved debate questions. Maybe I'll give it a whirl later on after work. Questions like "Why is the DoJ being weaponized against Republicans? Further, why hasn't Joe Biden been jailed for treason?"
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Sep 29, 2023 12:15
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BiggerBoat posted:Might be fun to make a mock list of RWM approved debate questions. Maybe I'll give it a whirl later on after work.
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Sep 29, 2023 15:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Might be fun to make a mock list of RWM approved debate questions. Maybe I'll give it a whirl later on after work. Why do you support right-to-work? Would you agree with the statement "work makes you free"?
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Sep 29, 2023 15:28
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Levantine posted:Wow real debate questions? I do declare! "Our people are the toughest and bestest! Except when asked anything other than softball questions lobbed a not-friendly moderator!" That's it exactly. For so many of the MAGA crowd, they never really paid a lot of attention to politics. Their cars/pickups would be covered with stickers for their favorite team, they'd wear a jersey or hat in support, proclaim "We beat those losers bad this weekend" as if they had anything to do with it, and build their whole persona around being a supporter of "their team". Their team and its members could do no wrong, if they lost the other guys or refs did something shady, and that whole line of thinking just got shifted over to Trump. So just like they'll do anything for their team, and wave away anything bad about a team member, same for Trumpism. And notice that supporting the team no matter what is a huge part of this. The difference being, who wins the superbowl or the world series or the world cup has no effect on people's lives whatsoever, but supporting Trumpism is an actual danger to real people's lives.
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Sep 29, 2023 15:38
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Maybe it was different in the US, but I don't remember when politics wasn't treated like a team sport? It has been since I became politically aware in the 90s.
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Sep 29, 2023 18:01
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Party politics have been there since at least Reagan in my lifetime and Fox News was basically born out of frustration from the Republicans that they didn’t stand united for Nixon. It’s definitely more blatant and naked today if nothing else. And more people on the right are true believers and don’t know when it’s time to actually do something like not shut the government down. It’s probably worse than ever but like it’s always to some extent been a part of party politics since it’s about maintaining power for the party. And from the average persons perspective we’ve got so many ways for people to be trapped in their own bubble of information so they probably don’t always recognize they’re doing it. What strikes me here is how matter of factly they’re acknowledging not that the questions were unfair or dishonest or something but simply not something that is supposed to be brought up in the right wing bubble. It’s rude.
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Sep 29, 2023 18:44
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Fox News is a major reason for why the ‘team sport’ stuff got turbocharged
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Sep 29, 2023 18:45
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I remember Al Franken talking about Fox News and the "team sports" idea of politics back in the 90s in Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:38
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A US history teacher I had in undergrad lectured my class that anyone identifying as conservative or liberal in a way we would recognize didn't begin until the Great Depression.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:54
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Star Man posted:A US history teacher I had in undergrad lectured my class that anyone identifying as conservative or liberal in a way we would recognize didn't begin until the Great Depression.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:09
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