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The Last Call posted:For those that missed it, DC already put out a release saying, nope. That's DC's opinion but let me just check with the legal statements of ownership provided by [checks notes] one "DC comics".  That's what I was saying upthread: until last week, every legal notice DC made was that Willingham owned Fables, but once he said it was released into the public domain, then they're claiming they were the owner. Just to be clear, DC owned the actual book layout and the cover art. Willingham owned everything else. And DC themselves stated this. Also, this industry drama is a lot more fun and interesting than the usual "this person is a shithead" drama. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 02:58
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very risky blowjob posted:thor was the first example to come to mind but a better one would probably be the public domain characters that femforce uses -- the 1940s matt baker/fox studios phantom lady stories are public domain, able to be reprinted by whoever gives a poo poo, and while the characters within them can be used, it became in the interests of femforce's publisher to change her costume a bit and rename her "blue bulleteer" to avoid dc's wrath I like to think about Wizard of Oz. I certainly don't know all the details (wow, the wiki is super long!), but basically the characters are in public domain, but the famous Disney movie is not (yet). So, you see tons of Oz adaptations, but they need to make sure and stay away from anything that was changed and/or new to the film. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_The_Wizard_of_Oz_and_related_works_in_the_United_States
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Sep 18, 2023 03:11
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I think the easiest way to look at what happened is that Willingham decided to make things a clusterfuck to spite DC. The whole debacle over what what he did actually means is the whole point; the franchise is effectively legally poisoned until this is cleared up. Whether or not that's a petty move is up to the reader, I guess.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:20
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It’s petty but it’s the type of petty I respect
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Sep 18, 2023 03:22
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If I do my version of Fables with the same scripts but different art and get sued, you guys will chip in for the legal defense fund, right?
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Sep 18, 2023 03:27
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Uthor posted:I like to think about Wizard of Oz. I certainly don't know all the details (wow, the wiki is super long!), but basically the characters are in public domain, but the famous Disney movie is not (yet). So, you see tons of Oz adaptations, but they need to make sure and stay away from anything that was changed and/or new to the film. The first novel (The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, which is the main inspiration for the popular film) was published in 1900 and passed into public domain in 1956, but at the time all of the subsequent novels were not yet public domain, and Disney bought up the rights to all of the other ones. This eventually led to them making Return to Oz in 1985, which pulled stuff from the public domain book but leaned more on later books, and they ended up paying MGM a bunch of money so that they could use Ruby Slippers (they were silver slippers in the novel). By this point all of the novels are public domain, but obviously the films are not. And Disney didn't do much with the franchise, though their film is another cultural touchstone of Oz that anyone else doing Oz stuff would have to avoid. Disney also tried making another Oz movie with James Franco in the 2010s. People keep trying to make Oz happen, and I'm not sure if it's ever worked outside of the original novels, the 1939 film, and I guess The Wiz? Did Fables have Oz stuff? I am also realizing much of this is covered in your link.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:33
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Kurui Reiten posted:I think the easiest way to look at what happened is that Willingham decided to make things a clusterfuck to spite DC. The whole debacle over what what he did actually means is the whole point; the franchise is effectively legally poisoned until this is cleared up. It's not that much of a clusterfuck, it's just that the average person's interaction and knowledge of copyright is next to nothing. That means the real fun is in people misinterpreting Willingham's statement and that might be a genuine spite move on his part since he didn't bother to distinguish what he owned from what DC owned. It really is as simple as "Willingham owned the characters and concepts behind Fables. Then he released them to the public domain so anyone is free to use those without license." There's definitely certain groups that benefit from trying to muddy the waters and people who don't understand what Willingham owned, but the fundamental principle is about as straightforward as they come and if Warners/DC tried to take legal action against someone staying on the public domain side of things they'd get slapped (and possibly SLAPPed given the likely venues) down hard. Uthor posted:I like to think about Wizard of Oz. I certainly don't know all the details (wow, the wiki is super long!), but basically the characters are in public domain, but the famous Disney movie is not (yet). So, you see tons of Oz adaptations, but they need to make sure and stay away from anything that was changed and/or new to the film. Adaptation is really interesting when it comes to copyright because of how certain things that people associate with with a work might be a result of an adaptation. And it's not always the things you'd expect; a lot of iconic aspects of works were created for other versions of them. To take this back to comics, Jimmy Olsen and kryptonite didn't originate in Superman comics, though as far as I can tell National Comics owned the things derived from the radio show. There's no legal indica in those 50's Superman books that they were owned by someone else. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 03:38
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Kurui Reiten posted:I think the easiest way to look at what happened is that Willingham decided to make things a clusterfuck to spite DC. The whole debacle over what what he did actually means is the whole point; the franchise is effectively legally poisoned until this is cleared up. it's easily the best Fables story ever, though that's a low bar because lol Fables sucks
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Sep 18, 2023 03:44
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I don't remember any Oz stuff in Fables. It was very much based around Brother's Grimm stories, with I guess Gepeto at the end. I don't know what Fables being public domain would actually do besides maybe allowing people to name the Big Bad Wolf stand in "Bigby" since pretty much every character is already public domain and there's dozens of "darker" or "more realistic" versions of all those characters in countless other versions. It's not like the owners of Freeway can sue Once Upon A Time.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:46
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Air Skwirl posted:I don't remember any Oz stuff in Fables. It was very much based around Brother's Grimm stories, with I guess Gepeto at the end. lol, with the Phantom Lady example above, when Glenn Danzig's Verotik published reprints of the public domain golden-age Phantom Lady comics, DC didn't sue them, but AC (publishers of the Phantom-Lady-alike Nightveil) did
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Sep 18, 2023 03:51
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Edge & Christian posted:Not to take away from this point (which is accurate), but the famous Wizard of Oz movie from 1939 is currently owned by WBD because Turner Films bought MGM and most of their classic film library in 1986 and Turner got absorbed into a series of media/telecom companies before arriving at its current state. All of the post-1986 MGM films are now owned by Amazon. There was also a ~52 ep anime adaption of the first four Oz books back in like the mid 80's Also while I never finished Fables, there was, iirc, a mention of Oz being one of the lands to have fallen to the Adversary, maybe in the issue about the siege of the castle that had to the portal they were using to escape to the human world.
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Sep 18, 2023 04:31
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Opopanax posted:Holy poo poo, Tom Lehrer is still alive! And by all accounts as of a couple years back at least, in reasonable health and full control of his faculties (although if anything even more cynical than when he was active).
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Sep 18, 2023 07:51
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The Oz fandom has been chugging along for decades, putting out zines and stories and stuff. In terms of comics there's a wide range. Skottie Young and Marvel put out some direct adaptations maybe 10-15 years ago. Namesake (https://www.namesakecomic.com) has a big Oz component and the main cast of Skin Horse (https://skin-horse.com) are Oz analogues. There's a bunch of "Oz, but mature" comics, where the "mature" can be sex (Lost Girls) or violence (Mayhem in Munchkinland, Oz Squad), I don't know of anything with both but I'm ok with that state of affairs. Evan Dahm (Rice Boy, Vattu, etc) put out an illustrated edition of the first book. Daisy Finch McGuire (Gastrophobia/Pepsiaphobia) has started an adaptation of book 2: https://yellowbrickramble.com/comic/the-marvelous-land-of-oz which I'm enjoying a lot (the artist is proving herself not a coward when it comes to the subtext from the original).
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Sep 18, 2023 12:32
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fritz posted:Daisy Finch McGuire (Gastrophobia/Pepsiaphobia) has started an adaptation of book 2: https://yellowbrickramble.com/comic/the-marvelous-land-of-oz which I'm enjoying a lot (the artist is proving herself not a coward when it comes to the subtext from the original). I was going to post this, but didn't want to throw links in the terrible thread. (the current page that loads when you go to the comic is perfect to show what it's doing). When I heard that's what she was adapting, I totally knew that wasn't going to be ignored in the slightest.
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Sep 18, 2023 13:08
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Kurui Reiten posted:I think the easiest way to look at what happened is that Willingham decided to make things a clusterfuck to spite DC. The whole debacle over what what he did actually means is the whole point; the franchise is effectively legally poisoned until this is cleared up. It's not poisoned for DC. DC indisputably holds sole rights to reprint the existing Fables comics. That's signed in contract, and even Willingham's statement implies this to be the case for at least however long the terms of said deal hold up (and I imagine it's not unlike the Watchmen deal - they maintain the rights as long as they keep it in print). This actually makes it *easier* for DC to do more with the franchise since they no longer need Willingham's involvement in any derivative works. The worst it does is means they might have to go after people trying to print copies of the comic, but that was a problem already.
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Sep 18, 2023 13:17
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fritz posted:Evan Dahm (Rice Boy, Vattu, etc) put out an illustrated edition of the first book. Daisy Finch McGuire (Gastrophobia/Pepsiaphobia) has started an adaptation of book 2: https://yellowbrickramble.com/comic/the-marvelous-land-of-oz which I'm enjoying a lot (the artist is proving herself not a coward when it comes to the subtext from the original). /me checks the cast page Scarecrow and Tin Woodman as "the Friends of Dorothy". Oh, man, yeah, this is gonna be a thing.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:04
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Rand Brittain posted:/me checks the cast page FYI, this is old school and every image/page has a joke in the alt-text.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:16
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Fantagraphics is suing Emil Ferris. https://twitter.com/shallowbrigade/status/1703933143122596104
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Sep 19, 2023 16:33
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Curious to see how it shakes out, but unless Groth is actually lying about what’s happened, it sure seems like Fanta’s assumption they had the rights to publish both volumes is reasonable.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:42
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Endless Mike posted:It's not poisoned for DC. DC indisputably holds sole rights to reprint the existing Fables comics. That's signed in contract, and even Willingham's statement implies this to be the case for at least however long the terms of said deal hold up (and I imagine it's not unlike the Watchmen deal - they maintain the rights as long as they keep it in print). This actually makes it *easier* for DC to do more with the franchise since they no longer need Willingham's involvement in any derivative works. The worst it does is means they might have to go after people trying to print copies of the comic, but that was a problem already. DC owns the rights to the existing publications, but assuming Willingham actually owned the rights to the characters and settings, basically what this does is allow people to legally publish fanfiction. So some fan or rival publisher could write a sequel and sell it for real money, and there would be nothing DC could do about it. This would theoretically devalue the IP significantly, but I dunno how valuable it is in the first place. Edit: If he really wanted to stick it to DC he could have made it an open license that lets everyone except DC use the characters. Clarste fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 08:16
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Edge & Christian posted:Did Fables have Oz stuff? Dorothy Gale is an assassin known as Silver Slippers. She is Master Spy Cinderella's arch-nemesis, and is seemingly impossible to kill. She's basically a James Bond villain. She has three henchmen, iirc. Oz fell to the Adversary but Dorothy only cares about getting paid to do something she enjoys (murder.)
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Sep 23, 2023 15:52
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https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1706818849121722780 Oh.
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Sep 27, 2023 00:59
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Well that certainly blows a hole in Ethan Van Sciver’s story that DC fired him because he was a Republican. E the Shaggy fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 13:20
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Unless this is part of a pattern, it's possible that Didio was just being a dumbass and didn't do due diligence on who he gave interviews to. Lot of YouTube content-screamers out there, can be hard to tell which ones are which kind of freaks.
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Sep 27, 2023 13:43
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Darth Walrus posted:Unless this is part of a pattern, it's possible that Didio was just being a dumbass and didn't do due diligence on who he gave interviews to. Lot of YouTube content-screamers out there, can be hard to tell which ones are which kind of freaks. The first page of google results has articles like “Arroz is a liar” “Arroz history of trolling and harassment” “Arroz author at the Federalist” etc If he didn’t know, he sure didn’t try to find out
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Sep 27, 2023 14:04
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 Lmao Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Sep 28, 2023 04:34
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As an aging white man, I really wish aging white men would shut the gently caress up and go make their beds or wash their truck or something. There are a billion other things these dopes could be doing. I just beat Final Fantasy 7 Remake after never playing the original. They could do that too! For such tough guys they whine a lot about fictional characters. None of these jerkoffs can put out a book in shops that sells. None. It's all Patreon grifts and the like. People don't want conservative leaning white savior books. Are all the assholes pirating the books they say they hate for having icky girls and Those People in them? They're too old to be doing YouTube shows. Go mow your lawns.
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Sep 28, 2023 05:04
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Lucifunk posted:As an aging white man, I really wish aging white men would shut the gently caress up and go make their beds or wash their truck or something. There are a billion other things these dopes could be doing. I just beat Final Fantasy 7 Remake after never playing the original. They could do that too! For such tough guys they whine a lot about fictional characters. None of these jerkoffs can put out a book in shops that sells. None. It's all Patreon grifts and the like. People don't want conservative leaning white savior books. Didio DESPERATELY wanted to be recognized as a comic book writer during his tenure at DC, plunking himself onto books that were absolutely God awful. Dude can't write his way out of a paper bag but when that easy right-wing cash and recognition can come in, he's going to leap on it like a dog in heat.
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Sep 28, 2023 06:22
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Man I have never felt so validated in hating the direction mid-00s DC took
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Sep 28, 2023 08:52
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The one time I met Dan DiDio he assaulted me. That's not a joke. It was at a con of course, and I was chatting with James Robinson and DiDio came up behind me, grabbed me by the shoulders, and started shaking me. "You're talking with James Robinson here! Chatting with James!" Completely bizarre.
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Sep 28, 2023 12:26
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E the Shaggy posted:Didio DESPERATELY wanted to be recognized as a comic book writer during his tenure at DC, plunking himself onto books that were absolutely God awful. Dude can't write his way out of a paper bag but when that easy right-wing cash and recognition can come in, he's going to leap on it like a dog in heat. That certainly explains the repeated complaints that editorial was writing the stories if you weren't a big writer yourself.
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Sep 28, 2023 12:43
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Never forget that DiDio couldn't name 2 female comic creators in 2011 and also oversaw an era littered with moments of replacing characters of color with their white predecessors. He's always been bad, he's just going full throated now.
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Sep 28, 2023 13:35
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Sep 28, 2023 15:17
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Didio is desperate now to be recognized as some comics business expert. Like that New 52 retrospective he did where he just talked himself up with barely any self-reflection.
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Sep 28, 2023 16:54
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Remember when Didio nixed the Batwoman marriage at the last moment after it was already approved
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Sep 28, 2023 17:48
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Codependent Poster posted:Remember when Didio nixed the Batwoman marriage at the last moment after it was already approved Wait, he's the reason I stopped reading DC comics for a long time?  (to be fair, Batwoman was the only DC comic I was reading at that time)
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Sep 28, 2023 18:54
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Uthor posted:Wait, he's the reason I stopped reading DC comics for a long time? This applies to a lot more people and for a lot more reasons than Batwoman.
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Sep 28, 2023 19:54
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Uthor posted:Wait, he's the reason I stopped reading DC comics for a long time? Here's the reason a lot of people stopped reading DC comics for a long time.
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Sep 29, 2023 01:54
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DantetheK9 posted:Here's the reason a lot of people stopped reading DC comics for a long time. Batwoman was what made me drop DC as a whole, too.
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Sep 29, 2023 02:06
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Didio basically felt like he made it his personal mission to poo poo all over everything I liked in DC comics for years, it was genuinely an impressive effort.
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Sep 29, 2023 20:43
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