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There are few places I would trust less to determine the quality of a Falcom title than this thread.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:57
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I probably trust this thread more than the rest of the internet tbh. Which isn’t exactly high praise, but most of y’all are all right guys/gals/enby pals.
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Sep 28, 2023 16:03
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I will play Daybreak 2 and I will accept my fate as it falls. If it sucks, sucks to suck and that I'm a sucker. Pre-ordering Daybreak 1 off the strength of playing it patched and loving it.
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Sep 28, 2023 16:07
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Just finished Chapter 3 of Azure and I have to ask: did those GDF that got blown up/shot/chainsawed by Shirley and the RC Jaegers actually die or was it anime deaths (they show up in a hospital fine afterwards)
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Sep 28, 2023 16:48
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i wanna say the nameless ones are all free to die
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Sep 28, 2023 16:57
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Some Numbers posted:That bad, huh? Yup. It's clearly a filler game that has a new progression gimmick which, while novel the first few times it happens, quickly becomes infuriating and kills all sense of tension or consequence. Plus, about 40% of the game is Act 3 which is the most blatant padding Kiseki has ever had, even the worst parts of Cold Steel 2 and 4 had more interesting things going on.
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Sep 28, 2023 17:01
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frajaq posted:Just finished Chapter 3 of Azure and I have to ask: did those GDF that got blown up/shot/chainsawed by Shirley and the RC Jaegers actually die or was it anime deaths (they show up in a hospital fine afterwards) going by how bad the terrorists got it at the end of Chapter 2 I would have to say those poor guys are just straight up dead.
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Sep 28, 2023 17:10
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Nate RFB posted:There are few places I would trust less to determine the quality of a Falcom title than this thread. I am trying very hard to not emptyquote this after I listened to this thread scream about CS4 for years and then I finally got to play it and it was fine.
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Sep 28, 2023 17:32
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I have a couple of questions about Kuro/Daybreak chapter 5 before I get there. If all my alignments are high enough, can I just drop a save and reset to do all the routes or does it require a full playthrough? Is it worth doing the different routes?
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Sep 28, 2023 17:47
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Kuro 2 is a fine game with some questionable story choices. It's not better than the first game for specific spoilery reasons but that's a high bar to clear anyway.
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Sep 28, 2023 17:52
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SgtSteel91 posted:What do you mean by this? Because you bring up Laura and she has scenes and connections to the plot. Not particularly strong ones. More importantly, her character arc is "I want to sword better" (which is boring pretty much every time Falcom tries that arc), flat (at the end her goal is still "I want to sword better," just about different people) and largely internal (it's entirely about self-improvement, not about the larger world). Don't take this as an attack on your favorite character, I do like Laura. My complaint is not that she is a bad character, but that she was underused. We don't even learn anything about her mother - if you can believe it - until the Finale of CS 4, and it's just a couple of lines in a completely optional conversation. It's actually interesting and would have shed some light on Laura's character if maybe I had heard about it four games ago. SgtSteel91 posted:The Legram chapters are her taking central stage, Duvalie basically becomes her rival, she sees the Lance Maiden as her hero and then in CS3 and 4 learns that her idol is Arianhood and she demonstrates her swordsmanship that impresses Lianne so much she gives her blessing to Laura to carry the Sandlot name. And her goal at the beginning of Cold Steel, to surpass her father, is reached when he is forced to confront them and- well- she bests him. Chapter 5 in CS 1 reveals the least about her. Legram is center stage, but she is not. We learn about the place where she grew up, but not much new about her origins and what makes her tick. I was actually expecting more about her from that chapter, but got basically nothing. The 'rivalry' with Duvalie occupies almost zero screen time, is of pretty much no concern to Laura when Duvalie is offscreen, and it's a rivalry about swording. Those are not as interesting as rivalries based on differences in worldview or philosophy. (CS 4 - Act 3 end) I don't care in the slightest about who can sword better, especially in a series where each game introduces new Even Stronger And Better At Swording Than The Last Really Strong Characters characters. Laura is not mandatory for the third Rivalry because she was literally just mandatory for the previous section, and her primary arc was to beat her father, which she just did. The person with the strongest connection to Arianrhod is Duvalie, who is mandatory. Nate RFB posted:There are few places I would trust less to determine the quality of a Falcom title than this thread. Do you mean that if people come in and post "this game is amazing and the best entry in the franchise yet", you'll distrust that take? Doubtful. What you mean is that you'll reflexively praise opinions which reinforce your pre-conceptions and reflexively dismiss opinions which counter them. (Everyone does this.) Mr. Fortitude posted:Don't worry, Daybreak 2 will dash all good will you had towards the first game. It has fishing though! I don't find that surprising, it's why all the gushing about how much better Daybreak 1 was didn't move me. I decided after CS 4 that I was definitely going to wait for the localizations of all three Daybreak games before considering getting any of them. frajaq posted:Just finished Chapter 3 of Azure and I have to ask: did those GDF that got blown up/shot/chainsawed by Shirley and the RC Jaegers actually die or was it anime deaths (they show up in a hospital fine afterwards) She did tell the jaegers to kill any who fought back, we saw silent, unmoving bodies in blood afterwards, the attack on the police station was dangerous enough to leave an officer on a ventilator, and people in the hospital mention how hard it is to lose patients, which suggests to me that there were indeed fatalities.
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Sep 28, 2023 18:05
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I think describing Laura’s arc as “I want to sword better” is a surface level reading and not what Laura’s arc is about but I’ll leave it at that. edit: And my point is everyone in Class 7 gets a turn to be in the spotlight and have a role to contribute to the plot, even if it's subjective how good their sections are. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Sep 28, 2023 18:55
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Some Numbers posted:I have a couple of questions about Kuro/Daybreak chapter 5 before I get there. You could, but they're really not that significantly different. You'll hit all the same major beats no matter what. Some cute differences here and there, but the chapter is large enough that it could be daunting. Set it up and play through to the end of one of them and see how you feel about it then, imo!!
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Sep 28, 2023 19:03
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with all 3 groups in Reverie. The SSS remains the ones stealing the show with most heartfelt moments so far. met up with Tio again at the hospital. Go tell them Wazy. KeA T_T Tio T_T Her and Llyod scene was so sweet T_T Knowing her history with Guy and all that. GateOfD fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Sep 28, 2023 19:33
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Tesseraction posted:I will play Daybreak 2 and I will accept my fate as it falls. If it sucks, sucks to suck and that I'm a sucker.  i got through CS4's roller-coaster of disappointment i can handle anythinge: Cyouni posted:I am trying very hard to not emptyquote this after I listened to this thread scream about CS4 for years and then I finally got to play it and it was fine. tbf it was less screaming and more of a warning to not get our hopes up. i ignored it at my peril Yinlock fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Sep 29, 2023 |
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Sep 29, 2023 00:13
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Cyouni posted:I am trying very hard to not emptyquote this after I listened to this thread scream about CS4 for years and then I finally got to play it and it was fine.  , dare I say I loved CS4?
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Sep 29, 2023 00:38
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CS4 did nothing wrong
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Sep 29, 2023 00:45
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I have fairly major criticisms of most of the Trails games I've played but I can't really think of any ways I was disappointed by CS4 in specific. Like, yes, the first third should be much longer, it's by far the most interesting part, but my biggest criticism outside of that is just how boring the curse is as a tool to incite conflict in the story. Anytime something bad happens it's the curse. We need Laura's dad to turn evil for five minutes for no reason, curse. And as I've mentioned before, while I didn't necessarily want Millium or Crow or Rean to die (not that those were ever serious possibilities in this series, especially the last one), as a finale it kind of lacks a sense of permanence. But yeah, outside of that stuff I was pretty fine with it overall. I'm sure if I knew more specifically what people like less about it I might agree, but I haven't read any specific complaints.
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Sep 29, 2023 00:48
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I respect CS4 because it was similar in structure to CS2 but surprised me by being better about a lot of things that annoyed me in CS2 though its still on the weaker end of Trails games. Though I guess thinking on it CS2/CS4/SC are Trails games in a similar mold and they all feel a bit weaker than the others to me. I guess something about the structure doesn't land as well for me.
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Sep 29, 2023 00:55
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On that note, is it weird that I like CS3 better than CS1? I just kinda vibed with it a lot more. I feel like I hear people say that the pinnacle of Cold Steel is either 1 or 2 a lot.
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Sep 29, 2023 00:57
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CS3 is the best Trails tbh. Ok maybe not 'best' but definitely my fav
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Sep 29, 2023 00:59
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I can't remember if I've talked about it in the thread before, but I think my biggest story complaint about CSIV was (spoilers for everything up through CSIV) the reincarnation stuff. Sky 3rd used the incredible power of a Sept-Terrion to say "Maybe souls exist, but maybe they don't. Who knows?" Azure followed that up with the final conversation with Guy, but that was also dancing around the concept of a soul by having him assume he's a creation made by KeA who was a Sept-Terrion But Better. As far as I can recall, no other game talks about soul stuff until CSIV Act 3 where Rose says "So as we all know, souls are 100% guaranteed real and get reincarnated" and everybody just nods along like "Yep, that's obvious, hurry up and get to the shocking part." Then as if that wasn't bad enough they had the gall to make Osborne literally the reincarnation of Dreichels, and the whole thing just shredded my suspension of disbelief. I'm really glad I loved Reverie and am enjoying Daybreak, because it makes it much easier to just acknowledge CSIVs reincarnation as my absolute low point of the series and move forward from there.
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Sep 29, 2023 01:06
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Arist posted:I have fairly major criticisms of most of the Trails games I've played but I can't really think of any ways I was disappointed by CS4 in specific. Like, yes, the first third should be much longer, it's by far the most interesting part, but my biggest criticism outside of that is just how boring the curse is as a tool to incite conflict in the story. Anytime something bad happens it's the curse. We need Laura's dad to turn evil for five minutes for no reason, curse. And as I've mentioned before, while I didn't necessarily want Millium or Crow or Rean to die (not that those were ever serious possibilities in this series, especially the last one), as a finale it kind of lacks a sense of permanence. i've read and said a bunch but here they are: huge crossover cast that it doesn't do enough with, weaker writing(the curse especially leading villain motivations to become really cloudy for the most part), half the cast's characterization screeching to a halt due to Rean's vague relationship status(tbf CSIII also has this problem), the last 2/3rds being stretched out twice as long as they needed to be leading to things dragging on endlessly and everyone just kinda wandering around in-story waiting for things to happen, some side-plots getting resolved really abruptly as time/money runs out(everything involving Hugo for example), the aggressively boring final dungeon that I think recolors the same enemy like 3 times? I remember a lot of blobs and ghosts. Also Osborne became kinda lame and the final confrontation just being him saying "fight now" and your team being like "yes your majesty!!!" blew chunks, come on not even a single conversation? all of you guys have reasons to hate this dude a lot. that said the real final battle was cool if contrived due to deus ex earth prison(another example of something being abruptly resolved) but whatever Trails has no shortage of contrivances I actually do not think it's completely awful despite how much I rag on it, just disappointing. Also Reverie basically fixes all of those problems(besides Osborne being lame, but he's very dead so not much you can do there) so overall I give CS a lot more goodwill nowadays. Arist posted:On that note, is it weird that I like CS3 better than CS1? I just kinda vibed with it a lot more. I feel like I hear people say that the pinnacle of Cold Steel is either 1 or 2 a lot. Not sure if it's better but I do like CS3 a lot, it's just hindered by the buildup not really paying off in the end. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 29, 2023 |
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Sep 29, 2023 01:10
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I feel like it's hard to grade CS1 or CS3 in isolation, because so much of them is set-up and what's the set-up without the conclusion? Saying "CS1+CS2" or "CS3+CS4" makes more sense to me, and I'm on the CS1+CS2 side there. Reverie does help prop up some of CS4's weaker aspects, but while CS2's conclusion is good enough for me to forgive the weaker elements of that game, Reverie's conclusion isn't quite strong enough to even out two games' worth of complaints.
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Sep 29, 2023 01:14
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JavaJesus posted:I can't remember if I've talked about it in the thread before, but I think my biggest story complaint about CSIV was (spoilers for everything up through CSIV) the reincarnation stuff. Sky 3rd used the incredible power of a Sept-Terrion to say "Maybe souls exist, but maybe they don't. Who knows?" Azure followed that up with the final conversation with Guy, but that was also dancing around the concept of a soul by having him assume he's a creation made by KeA who was a Sept-Terrion But Better. As far as I can recall, no other game talks about soul stuff until CSIV Act 3 where Rose says "So as we all know, souls are 100% guaranteed real and get reincarnated" and everybody just nods along like "Yep, that's obvious, hurry up and get to the shocking part." Then as if that wasn't bad enough they had the gall to make Osborne literally the reincarnation of Dreichels, and the whole thing just shredded my suspension of disbelief. I'm really glad I loved Reverie and am enjoying Daybreak, because it makes it much easier to just acknowledge CSIVs reincarnation as my absolute low point of the series and move forward from there. That's mostly just funny to me. It's like not good and extremely out of nowhere but of the things that I dislike about CS4 it doesn't really rate.
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Sep 29, 2023 01:22
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I love all the games, my love for each game transfers directly into the next because it's a single continuing story split into arcs. FC being a 10/10 by itself transfers directly into SC which has some major flaws that hurt it, but didn't even stop SC from earning its own 10/10 much less pushing well past that supposed limit. The numeric value of Reverie would be insane if I bothered keeping track. The idea of not loving a Trails game is basically inconceivable to me, it'd have to objectively poo poo on everything that came before, by like killing over a hundred people we love for no reason or pulling a Star Ocean 3, and honestly, I think my love could tank that one. Trails has definitely become too formulaic in game structure and it hindered the tense nature of the plot significantly. But there's also the fact that Trails basically has the best game structure in the industry in Cold Steel, so maybe not too much. Plot>NPC>Gameplay manages my fatigue like nothing else when it's set up as well as Cold Steel. I like both things mentioned against CS4, one of them is a trope the series has used since FC where it was super questionable, but here it's powered by a source that makes you go ”checks out”(it is used badly despite the amazing plot behind it though) and the other is personally, a masterstroke thats been setup since CS2 and I wanted a hell of a lot more focus on it since it involves two of my favorite characters. Like I said before, I think CS3 adding and focusing on new things instead of addressing existing plots caused 90% of CS4s fumbling, the other 10% is the insistence in not using characters the writers don't attribute to the Erebonia Arcs that much, even Olivert got written out of his 4 dimensional chess game cuz hes a Sky Character. On a related note, while I like some of the character moments in Act 1(Kurt stole the whole show), it's by far the filleriest trails part to me full of plots that feel strange to have in CS4 instead of 3. Your express goal here is to find Rean, by traveling across the country and sticking magic rods in the ground. But right next to Rean were; Celine, Crow, Duvalie, George, and Angelica if I remember correctly. Any one of them through much less contrived plots than exist elsewhere in the game could have informed Class VII where the base was. Compared to breaking through checkpoints and rescuing your friends even if it's blatantly a CS2 rehash, it's just not important to the plot?
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Sep 29, 2023 02:52
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CS3 at the time it released was by far and away my favorite game in the franchise. It took a hard fall after CS4 knowing that a ton of stuff either completely fails to pay off or was just a cheap fakeout, but in a vacuum I still like it a lot. 1+2 is probably stronger overall just because it manages to maintain quality rather then 3 being fantastic and 4 dropping off a cliff. I skipped Reverie and have zero interest in giving it any chance but I'll definitely try out Daybreak after Endorph and a few others gave it really positive impressions for moving away from the things that made CS4 suck.
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Sep 29, 2023 06:32
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Just for the record I absolutely adore CS3 and if you ignore the sequel arc aspect and just look at first games, it's probably my favorite over FC. Between enhanced gameiness and being a lot more willing to have crisises since there are experienced characters around, its just quite a bit more exciting while not sacrificing any of the setup and although some of my opinions about it have been overwritten by stuff in 4 to the point I can't remember my just 3 opinions, I can tell you right now it was the time of my life upon release and I haven't lost a single bit of that love. It's also 30% longer than CS1 and almost twice as long as FC so that helps lol.
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Sep 29, 2023 08:55
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RevolverDivider posted:CS3 at the time it released was by far and away my favorite game in the franchise. It took a hard fall after CS4 knowing that a ton of stuff either completely fails to pay off or was just a cheap fakeout, but in a vacuum I still like it a lot. 1+2 is probably stronger overall just because it manages to maintain quality rather then 3 being fantastic and 4 dropping off a cliff. I recommend giving it a shot, Reverie is where they moved away from what made CS4 fall off, or started to anyway. P. much all of CS4's flaws writing-wise are tied up and booted off the nearest cliff and it's a fairly satisfying capstone overall. otoh no playable dudders 0/10 poo poo game Einander posted:I feel like it's hard to grade CS1 or CS3 in isolation, because so much of them is set-up and what's the set-up without the conclusion? Saying "CS1+CS2" or "CS3+CS4" makes more sense to me, and I'm on the CS1+CS2 side there. Reverie does help prop up some of CS4's weaker aspects, but while CS2's conclusion is good enough for me to forgive the weaker elements of that game, Reverie's conclusion isn't quite strong enough to even out two games' worth of complaints. Yeah it doesn't quite erase CS4 pratfalling but it does the best it can with what's left from that and I think it largely succeeds in making something compelling out of it. IMO Reverie's conclusion is very, very good.
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Sep 29, 2023 10:22
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Yeah I was pleasantly surprised that Reverie stuck its landing
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Sep 29, 2023 10:43
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Yinlock posted:otoh no playable dudders 0/10 poo poo game Can’t believe this. No Supreme/V3 versions of all his super rad moves to look forward to…
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Sep 29, 2023 10:58
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Well I found the absolute worst enemy in Nayuta infinite: the snakes that fire apparently unavoidable beams of light at you that do damage every second and if I ever get hit by one I'm dead instantly. Did I mention they're almost completely unavoidable? As far as I tell if they fire you're dead, the only way to deal with them is to keep them in hitstun until they die. Second worst are the hard version of the enemies immune to magic since magic is the no 1 source of damage on this difficulty.
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Sep 29, 2023 12:32
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I find it absolutely bizarre that people who have played CS 4 can look back and say "CS 3 is my favorite," even though CS 4 proves that over 50% of what happened in CS 3 - the Leeves/Branch Campus stuff - was practically irrelevant filler.MythosDragon posted:On a related note, while I like some of the character moments in Act 1(Kurt stole the whole show), it's by far the filleriest trails part to me full of plots that feel strange to have in CS4 instead of 3. Your express goal here is to find Rean, by traveling across the country and sticking magic rods in the ground. But right next to Rean were; Celine, Crow, Duvalie, George, and Angelica if I remember correctly. Any one of them through much less contrived plots than exist elsewhere in the game could have informed Class VII where the base was. Compared to breaking through checkpoints and rescuing your friends even if it's blatantly a CS2 rehash, it's just not important to the plot? I actually think the method used was really clever - (CS 4) finding something hidden by looking at the point on the map which you can't see. You're not remembering quite right. Duvalie hadn't committed to changing sides yet. George was still trying to be The Good Gnome. Angelica was totally mind-zonked. Celine probably wouldn't have been able to escape the facility even if she dared to leave Rean alone, and even if she got out, it's unclear if she can teleport on her own, and definitely unclear if she knew where Rean was. That leaves Crow, and he may not have had permission to leave or didn't want to risk blowing his cover by asking permission. RevolverDivider posted:I skipped Reverie and have zero interest in giving it any chance but I'll definitely try out Daybreak after Endorph and a few others gave it really positive impressions for moving away from the things that made CS4 suck. I will counter the opinions suggesting to give Reverie a try, and say that skipping it and pretending it doesn't exist is an extremely good idea, which I should have done. The main plot is really stupid. The writers practically say "things just happen, don't think about it hard. We, the writers sure didn't." I'm sure whatever characters show up later will get enough context for you to understand things.
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Sep 29, 2023 13:30
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Filler is badass
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Sep 29, 2023 13:51
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90's Sailor Moon is better than the remake because of the filler episodes
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Sep 29, 2023 13:56
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Anyway I guess the way I play the games I don't think a sequel really impacts much of my feelings on the game before it? Like at least in terms of setup/payoff or anything. Like I appreciate good setup and even if 50 hours later the payoff in the sequel is bad I don't think that retroactively ruins the setup I really enjoyed. Like hey Osborne in CS4 is really boring and lame but that doesn't make his first appearance in TC bad to me y'know? And I don't want to say people are wrong if CS4 soured them on parts of CS3 they liked (woah, we just got different perspectives on storytelling I guess) but very weird to me if someone thinks "ugh, how could anyone like CS3 after its sequel proved all the good things about it were not that good at all!" or whatever. I like CS3, it's pretty hype. A different game entirely isn't going to make me reassess it negatively. E: Also, I guess thinking on it I don't think any of the disappointing poo poo in CS4 is really related to the stuff I liked about CS3. It remains pure and perfect, the timeskip arc of my dreams.
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Sep 29, 2023 13:59
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:You're not remembering quite right. Duvalie hadn't committed to changing sides yet. George was still trying to be The Good Gnome. Angelica was totally mind-zonked. Celine probably wouldn't have been able to escape the facility even if she dared to leave Rean alone, and even if she got out, it's unclear if she can teleport on her own, and definitely unclear if she knew where Rean was. That leaves Crow, and he may not have had permission to leave or didn't want to risk blowing his cover by asking permission. I mentioned contrived for a reason lmao. 2 of the characters switch sides with no further impetus, 1 is a good man in bad circumstances, and one would aid whoever started the process, the last one? yeah unlikely. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Sep 29, 2023 |
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Sep 29, 2023 14:22
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I like to see it as four major beats about growing up and the respective power you have in the world. You start out ignorant of what you're facing entirely. So wet behind the ears, you're not even really a player. Then you're plucky upstarts, pushing for what you believe is best, completely out of your league, but fighting with everything you have, anyhow, and that was very nearly enough to win. There's a time skip, and things are different now. You may not be in the same league as your opposition, but the gap has become small. You have put the bad guys on notice, and you have a building certainty that, with effort, you can overtake them. Somehow, Step Ahead reflects this feeling in the instrumentation. There's a point in this music where the protagonist instrument is sick of this poo poo and kicks into gear. And I think this is made even stronger when the party loses. And Spiral of Erebos also tells this story in the instruments, starting triumphant and slowly spiralling down in repetition into something less and less hopeful. You are nearly on the same level as your enemy. No one is going to save you. You have trained foe years and years to get to this point, you have the power of hope and right on your side, and a truly special team. And the music spells it out for you: you are still going to lose And then by the time CS4 rolls around, though the stakes are higher, though you actually fight stronger opponents "for realsies", now not really holding anything back, by this point, the game is about regrouping after an absolutely devastating loss and then almost disdainfully roadhousing absolutely everyone in your way. Not even almost at some points. It's absolutely, incredibly cathartic, and it feels desperately earned. If you look at the games in a dry plot beat to plot beat kinda way, maybe that's a bit disappointing. But the emotive core from game to game is stunning in how well it's pulled off. Personally, I feel like the emotions evoked in 2 and 3 ring the loudest, but the whole series is a triumph of an extremely ambitious style of storytelling.
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Sep 29, 2023 14:41
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Perfectly said, and when you put it like that it makes “To the Future.” the perfect capstone and cathartic theme for the true ending.
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Sep 29, 2023 15:01
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Referring to content as "filler" because it isn't relevant to the main story I feel is a little misleading if it only is seen as filler in retrospect. I enjoyed seeing those events unfold and even if you feel the people involved were underutilised I don't see it as the stalling for time that calling them filler implies.
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Sep 29, 2023 15:05
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