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ZZT the Fifth posted:As an aside, one of our party members had a critical failure at Earning Income with Crafting during the pre-adventure downtime last session. And I gotta agree with them - the penalty for critical failure, RAW, seems pretty loving harsh for an unlucky roll in an attempt to engage with the game mechanics. Like - "You get fired and your reputation suffers and you have a hard time finding jobs in the future"? All that for a bad roll of the dice? Cripes. The critical failure rules say that it hurts your reputation which can potentially make it harder to find jobs in the community. Hopefully your GM just plays it off as a bad week and doesn't really change the DC too much. I wouldn't unless you critically failed more than once and then I would probably only up the DC by 1 or 2 unless the town was super small, then I would up the DC by 3 or 4. Sounds like the dice just kicked your group up and down last session though which feels bad at level 1 when there isn't really a way to mitigate it. Edit: Thinking on it further I don't know if I would even up the DC. It seems like a good opportunity to introduce a side mission and new NPC that is upset with the characters bad work performance and wants the group to make up for it. the_steve posted:https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sieu?fbclid=IwAR3o_wMHwNp55-wj4aphzSTbv6qLyUBcKor1VbKmplG3Ej_VdJ2lhWQJlL0 Cool to see there making orcs core instead of uncommon. I don't know much about leshy's because they are currently rare but they must be pretty popular to become core so fast. Gonna see a lot more walking plants around. Edit: Was thinking of poppets which are rare not leshy's. gurragadon fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 14:14
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Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids
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Sep 30, 2023 15:07
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Piell posted:Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids Can’t Leshies form spontaneously under some circumstances? I thought that was the case with the Fungus Leshy in Little Trouble in Big Absalom.
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Sep 30, 2023 15:12
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the_steve posted:https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sieu?fbclid=IwAR3o_wMHwNp55-wj4aphzSTbv6qLyUBcKor1VbKmplG3Ej_VdJ2lhWQJlL0 Probably the biggest “news” here is the new name for half-elves and half-orcs.
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Sep 30, 2023 15:17
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Piell posted:Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids
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Sep 30, 2023 15:36
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Piell posted:Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids To be fair, they have said they're including leshys because they have a blatant connection to primal magic, the same way nephilim are blatantly divine and changelings are blatantly occult. That and they're just a cool unique thing other games in the D&D space haven't done. (I guess elves are as close as we get to a blatantly arcane ancestry, but blame that on arcane being stuck to the aesthetics of a guy reading a book while lightning crackles behind him.)
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Sep 30, 2023 15:44
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Weren’t there people at paizo that mentioned Leshy is one of their most popular new ancestries ever, and management completely missed the boat when the writers were telling them that they would blow up? They were so popular that one of the yearly RPG Day one shots was written to have all the players be a Leshy.
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Sep 30, 2023 15:49
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Silver2195 posted:Can’t Leshies form spontaneously under some circumstances? I thought that was the case with the Fungus Leshy in Little Trouble in Big Absalom. Looks like I remembered correctly! Big Trouble in Little Absalom posted:The fungus in this room originates from the icebox in area A5. Decades ago, the family that owned this cellar received an unfortunately terrible casserole from a family friend. Too polite to throw the casserole away but not willing to make the sacrifice of eating it, the family instead left the casserole inside the basement icebox, swearing to get around to it sometime. The casserole festered, eventually exploding into fungus that flourished and evolved to the point of gaining sentience. Though that was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek adventure; I don't think we're supposed to seriously assume that leshies emerge from expired casseroles all the time on Golarion. Still, I guess it's a potential backstory option for leshy PCs.
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Sep 30, 2023 15:53
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So does this mean Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are now officially supported as versatile heritages for every ancestry? Or are they just renaming the Human Heritages to move away from OGL?
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Sep 30, 2023 16:04
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Clerical Terrors posted:So does this mean Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are now officially supported as versatile heritages for every ancestry? Or are they just renaming the Human Heritages to move away from OGL? I think it’s the latter - but not because of OGL; I think it’s part of the broader move to just clean up problematic language like “half-breed” etc etc
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Sep 30, 2023 16:15
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Chevy Slyme posted:I think it’s the latter - but not because of OGL; I think it’s part of the broader move to just clean up problematic language like “half-breed” etc etc I guess that's understandable and it's cool to have RP names for different ancestries and heritages but it's becoming quite a list of utterly non-descriptive fantasy names at this point.
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Sep 30, 2023 16:43
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Yeah, the move towards giving every ancestry a nonsense name you have to remember is annoying. Some of the names are better than others; Shoony is admirably short, and it’s easy to remember that Anadi are the African spider-people because it sounds like Anansi. But how are we supposed to remember that the Vishkanya are the snake-people and the Vanara are the monkey-people, instead of the other way around?
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Sep 30, 2023 16:55
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^^^ This mainlyClerical Terrors posted:I guess that's understandable and it's cool to have RP names for different ancestries and heritages but it's becoming quite a list of utterly non-descriptive fantasy names at this point. It's already kind of like that and I usually have to look up any of the non-core races because I forget what they are supposed to be. Whats the difference between Nagaji and Lizardfolk really? Ghoran seems like a variant on leshy. Same with catfolk and kitsune, although I guess kitsune are supposed to be more fox like. I wish the rare stuff didn't have its own name but was a variant of core and to a lesser extent uncommon races for ease of remembering and classification.
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Sep 30, 2023 16:55
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Ghoran are the delicious ones that undergo Dr. Who-style regeneration into new personalities and are gradually going extinct. There’s also Conrasu, which are actually Lawful Neutral Outsiders in bizarre-looking plant shells. And Kitsune are nothing like Catfolk. Kitsune are magical shapeshifters and Catfolk are just furries. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 16:59
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Silver2195 posted:Ghoran are the delicious ones that undergo Dr. Who-style regeneration into new personalities and are gradually going extinct. That's fair the Catfolk and Kitsune are different, it's just a name problem for me maybe. They graciously named the rat people Ratfolk and Lizard people Lizardfolk for my benefit. Maybe I'll just rename all the different ancestries homebrew for my benefit as well. Kitsune are Foxfolk, Grippli's are Frogfolk, Orc's are Greenfolk.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:15
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Proven posted:Weren’t there people at paizo that mentioned Leshy is one of their most popular new ancestries ever, and management completely missed the boat when the writers were telling them that they would blow up? Piell posted:Leshy seems like a weird ancestry to make core considering they all have to be individually created by druids They can easily go very Twee, but that's a demographic that Paizo really could stand to hit better right now:  https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/404658/The-Botanical-Bestiary (for those curious about the image; not shilling idk them)     I have gotten half a dozen people to try out Pathfinder games with these images alone.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:20
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gurragadon posted:^^^ This mainly Honestly even if they just added a bit of description to the titles in the rulebooks, like "Anadi (Spiderfolk)" it'd go a long way to helping remember, even if for all diegetic texts they exclusively refer to them by their in-universe names. Same with some of the heritages honestly, if I'm casually looking through lists of available options in the index pages of a book or on Pathbuilder and see "Half-orc" I'll probably immediately get the idea, whereas if I just see "Dromaar" I'm not going to understand unless I go out of my way to look it up.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:25
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You don't need to learn the name of every ancestry in the books- if you can't remember which one is Vishkanya and which one is Vanara and you are playing in a game without either it doesn't matter, and if you're playing in a game with both and you still can't learn the difference then that's on you. People remember what elves and orcs and gnomes are, and they learned what kitsune and kobolds and leshy are. They'll learn the others when they play them or encounter NPCs of that ancestry, and until then what they're called is largely irrelevant.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:25
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gurragadon posted:That's fair the Catfolk and Kitsune are different, it's just a name problem for me maybe. They graciously named the rat people Ratfolk and Lizard people Lizardfolk for my benefit. Maybe I'll just rename all the different ancestries homebrew for my benefit as well. Kitsune are Foxfolk, Grippli's are Frogfolk, Orc's are Greenfolk. The difference with Kitsune is that they're actual real-world mythological beings. They're no different from elves or dwarves in that respect except that they're Japanese instead of European. Though, to be fair, they could call catfolk Nekomata under the same umbrella.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:26
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Yeah, but Golarion isn't Earth so they can change the mythological beings and give them different traits. But I agree with what Clerical Terrors said above, just like an easy description in the name that I can quickly reference then keep all the names in universe elsewhere. Edit: Golarion not Golorian gurragadon fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 17:32
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Zurai posted:The difference with Kitsune is that they're actual real-world mythological beings. They're no different from elves or dwarves in that respect except that they're Japanese instead of European. But Nekomata are magical shapeshifters like Kitsune, which, again, Catfolk are not.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:36
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Silver2195 posted:But how are we supposed to remember that the Vishkanya are the snake-people and the Vanara are the monkey-people, instead of the other way around? Because it's a direct reference to Indian myth and because it's a direct reference to Indian myth. I'm not saying the ancestry names in Pathfinder don't get needlessly obtuse some times, but you didn't pick the ones that are nonsense. You picked the ones that are foreign, and if you have as many locations that are based on real places you need to write them with respect for the original cultures. And sometimes that respect means using their word for "monkey person".
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Sep 30, 2023 17:41
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Because it's a direct reference to Indian myth and because it's a direct reference to Indian myth. I'm not saying the ancestry names in Pathfinder don't get needlessly obtuse some times, but you didn't pick the ones that are nonsense. You picked the ones that are foreign, and if you have as many locations that are based on real places you need to write them with respect for the original cultures. And sometimes that respect means using their word for "monkey person". Sorry, I didn't realize those names had an actual origin.
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Sep 30, 2023 17:53
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The vishkanya, nagaji, and vanara at least have been around since 1st edition, so they just stuck with the established naming convention there. Although the design of the nagaji seems to have morphed from (what appeared to be) kind of a turtle/komodo dragon-looking species in 1e to apparently "serpentfolk, but not evil" in 2e.
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Sep 30, 2023 18:12
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There is definitely a bit of ancestry bloat in PF2e, probably because ancestries are easy to write and everything else is hard. (Classes, skill feats etc). Well with obvious exception of Str/Int/Free ancestries as it is functionally impossible to be both strong and smart. It’s also weird that most of the places you go are ridiculously human dominated in population.
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Sep 30, 2023 18:23
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My group hit our pre-determined point in Abomination Vaults where I handed off GM duties and joined the group as a lvl 5 wood/air kineticist. It was late in the session when that happened, so I only had one encounter to play with, but holy hell is this a promising class. Tree sentinel I can tell already is going to be a party mvp skill.
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Sep 30, 2023 18:28
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Silver2195 posted:Yeah, the move towards giving every ancestry a nonsense name you have to remember is annoying. How am I supposed to know this guys name is Derrik and this one's if Phillipe? You expect me to remember things now? Shut up.
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Sep 30, 2023 18:28
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Enos Cabell posted:My group hit our pre-determined point in Abomination Vaults where I handed off GM duties and joined the group as a lvl 5 wood/air kineticist. It was late in the session when that happened, so I only had one encounter to play with, but holy hell is this a promising class. Tree sentinel I can tell already is going to be a party mvp skill. Tree Sentinel is so loving good, like half my turns as a wood/water kineticist are attack+Tree Sentinel
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Sep 30, 2023 18:36
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People have had "Argonian" internalized for lizardpeople and "Khajit" for cat people for decades. Why are giving ancestries names suddenly a problem now for this game? Do D&D players get frustrated that aarakocra aren't just called birdfolk? (Trick question no they don't "aarakocra" is too fun to say)
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Sep 30, 2023 19:08
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Clerical Terrors posted:So does this mean Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are now officially supported as versatile heritages for every ancestry? Or are they just renaming the Human Heritages to move away from OGL? It sounded to me like they are making it so that you can be any combination of ancestries, and giving names to human/elf and human/orc mixed ancestries, because those are the most common. Paizo posted:In order to reflect the great diversity of ancestries and cultures in Golarion, Pathfinder Player Core introduces versatile heritages—extra options including mixed ancestries and extraplanar origins. The most common among these are aiuvarins and dromaars, which represent a mix between human heritage and elven or orc heritage, respectively, in whatever way best fits the story of your character and their family. Edit: if that reading is correct, I'm pretty excited about it. One of my favorite side characters in my campaign is a dwarf/orc barbarian, who is as tall and strong as an orc and as stout and sturdy as a dwarf. I loved that PF2e made that easy to make without any homebrew (just an optional variant rule). With the remaster, it'll be cool to apply that kind of creativity to any mix of ancestries. VikingofRock fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 19:23
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Leshy own. They hit the same players who want to be goblins. There's an entire archetype of player that just wants to be a scamp.
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Sep 30, 2023 19:34
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Impermanent posted:Leshy own. They hit the same players who want to be goblins. There's an entire archetype of player that just wants to be a scamp. one day I will play a spooky pumpkin leshy
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Sep 30, 2023 20:04
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Impermanent posted:Leshy own. They hit the same players who want to be goblins. There's an entire archetype of player that just wants to be a scamp. It really does feel like if Goblins were the PF1E mascot, Leshy have that role for PF2E on lock.
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Sep 30, 2023 20:12
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Impermanent posted:Leshy own. They hit the same players who want to be goblins. There's an entire archetype of player that just wants to be a scamp. Leshy are Kender that don't make everyone hate you.
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Sep 30, 2023 20:43
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Leshy and Orc aren't uncommon any more because of Organised Play stuff. You can play those two without having to "buy" them based on how people have played So I think it makes total sense to be fixing them up in the player guide to reflect that Also as someone who has only done Organised Play with 2nd it's really interesting to see how varied ancestry wise "normal" parties are. Last game I played was me as a Dwarf, another Dwarf, three Humans and an Automaton (he saved up for ages to buy it) Taear fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 20:45
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Taear posted:Also as someone who has only done Organised Play with 2nd it's really interesting to see how varied ancestry wise "normal" parties are.
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Sep 30, 2023 21:03
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Blockhouse posted:People have had "Argonian" internalized for lizardpeople and "Khajit" for cat people for decades. Why are giving ancestries names suddenly a problem now for this game? Do D&D players get frustrated that aarakocra aren't just called birdfolk? (Trick question no they don't "aarakocra" is too fun to say) I don't know and I don't understand it. People have learned 1000 Pokemon names, I'm pretty sure the nerds playing The D&D KNock off, Pathfinder 2nd Edition, can handle a handful of new proper nouns.
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Sep 30, 2023 21:09
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mind the walrus posted:The hobby of TTRPGs attracts demographics that get overexcited about playing whatever weird socially asynchronous ancestry/race they can conceive, to the point where I have a rule in my games that players have to prove they can handle a common ancestry and basic cooperative play before they can make whatever Consaru or Fleshwarp rare ancestry gimmick character who does weird poo poo. Goblin and Gnome are common ancestries, though, so you don't actually need a rare ancestry to have an ancestry-based excuse to be "wacky." I don't really understand the logic of ancestry rarity. It makes sense for the construct/plant/undead ancestries, and the ones with wings, to be rare, but I have no idea why Shoonies are beyond the cynical explanation of "cosmetic reward in Organized Play."
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Sep 30, 2023 21:50
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Silver2195 posted:Goblin and Gnome are common ancestries, though, so you don't actually need a rare ancestry to have an ancestry-based excuse to be "wacky." They are rare because they are not very common in most of golarion
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Sep 30, 2023 21:53
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Ancestry rarity is really supposed to fluctuate per campaign. I believe they made a point through the recent undead advantages that you can treat all of those very rare ancestries as common because, in Geb, they are. It's also a quick way for DMs to dictate the expectations of a game. In this game the catfolk, kitsune, human, and turtles are common while the orcs, dwarves, and elves are exceedingly rare. Just with that you can suss that you're probably doing a game influence by yokai and Japanese fantasy. I think even society had different ancestries flagged differently depending on the adventures. Which, a long with player favor, is why the orc became common. That aside, you can just ignore it? If you don't like something you can leave it out. Paizo isnt gonna send a Society judge to your game and tell you you're doing it wrong. Edit: rarity adjustments are in the rules as flexible Ravus Ursus fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 21:57
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