quote:

Don't flatter yourself, but thanks for the admission that you find it hard to follow a reasoned argument. However you still miss those nuances. I'm sorry but the word count limit doesn't allow me to keep spelling it out letter by letter.

You're doing it again - you're equating 'late because it's not out and final by their hoped or planned estimate' - with failed. It's not failed, it's late. Failed is missing from a final game release. There has not been a final game release Comprende? Wait - I'll help since you brought up 'defintions'

Failed
1.(of an undertaking or a relationship) not achieving its end or not lasting; unsuccessful. "a failed coup attempt"
2.(of a mechanism) not functioning properly. "an aircraft with a failed engine"

Late
/leɪt/
adjective
1. doing something or taking place after the expected, proper, or usual time. "his late arrival"
Similar: behind time, behind schedule, not on time, unpunctual, tardy, running late, overdue, delayed.

adverb
1. after the expected, proper, or usual time. "she arrived late"
Similar: behind schedule, behind time

No-one, not even Chris will argue that the game isn't taking longer than expected and by definition (as you say) that means it is late by their previous estimates - I'll give you that. Failed, is completely different. We can discuss the reasons why it is late, but we can't discuss why it failed because it hasn't, they are still working on all of it. It's not a strawman, it's a plain fact.

quote:

"My argument is "why have they been so wrong, so consistently, about their ability to get it done in the timelines they themselves put forward" - and it's one you still haven't engaged with, because you keep attempting to change the subject. Why is that?"

There you go, we can discuss that. Thing is, I have engaged with it.

quote:

"It's a simplistic notion that just because they talk about something it will arrive tomorrow. There are such things as technical dependencies, unforeseen events and budgetary restrictions."

Too many wordy made all a bit confusing? Eyes go googly? OK I'll break it down:

Technical Dependencies - these are things you need to make things go. If you've never made those things that make things go before, you can only give an estimate about how long it will take to make them. Hence my talking about the difference between Game Design and Game Building. Sorry, promised to keep it simple. My bad.

Some games are built with the same things you built a game with before, so you if you know how long it took before and you make a game with the same tools, very same - you can make a good guess about how long the next game will take to make. Skyrim V and Starfield are very samey gamey, because they made them with same tools! Yay! Getting it now?

Game Design. This is a brand new game! Never made one like it before! It's made with shiny new tools you had to make yourself! First you had to find some clever boys and girls, tell them what you want to make, then they make the tools, they might not get it exactly right the first try but that's OK, and once they've made the tools you can use those to make YOUR GAME! Guessing how long it takes to make tools is hard, really really hard, because even clever girls and boys have to do a real lot of head-scratchy thinking about it. Especially when you need a lot of tools! Knowing which tools you need to make something you've never made before is really really hard. Boo hoo. Sad face.

You know what's even harder? Starting to make your game even while your friends are still making the tools! You don't know how long they will take to make the tools, you have to think about - what can I do while I'm waiting for Craigs tool! and Jonathans tool! and.. and.. Sarah's tool! Oh no!

Here's another of those confusing words. Unforeseen.
It means you didn't know it was gonna happen! Like when some of your friends who've been helping you are sick and away from the playhouse, or or.. they go on holidays! Have ickle babies! Aww!

Or they go away to go play with other friends. Sad face.

Oh No! Now how long will it take to make my game? It'll never be finished on time for my friends party! He'll be very upset!

Sometimes everybody gets sick and we ALL have to move out of the playhouse! Yikes!

We need more friends to help us make our game! but we can't find anymore friends right now, we've got lots of sweets and candies, but no-one wants to play!

Oh wait, we got some new friends but we haven't got enough space, we'll all have to move to a new playhouse, a bigger one! That'll be fun!

quote:

Except when he specifically told everyone that even if funding dried up tomorrow, they'd still be able to deliver the game they had sold. Or did you conveniently forget that fact? Here's the quote, in case you did:

"We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012)."

This just goes to show your lack of critical thinking. That post was from 2014! How many offices did they have? How many staff did they have? How many do they have now?

50 jellybeans divided by 10 playmates, we each get 5 jellybeans! Yay!

Oh no we got more friends, a lot more! Now we have 100 friends!

Only 50 jellybeans! We only get half a jellybean each! Very very sad face!

Oh wait.. that's nice Mummy and Daddy have been giving us more jellybeans all along.. Yay! Everybody still gets 5 jellybeans!

Don't you think they have to keep adding to that reserve, as well as increasing expenses? Where does that come from? Have you actually read their yearly financial statements?

When you grab a quote do you actually read it? The bit in the brackets - (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012). Hmm I wonder what 'not quite the current level of mambition means'? Does it mean 'dumbed down', maybe? Or maybe 'Some things missing?'

It wouldn't take much to go above what was planned in 2012 from the perspective of technical game design, THEY'VE ALREADY SURPASSED IT - as I said. It's not me assuming they haven't done any work on things they haven't shown, I know they have. But some won't be convinced because - "Unless I see it in the game neeeooowww it doesn't exist!" Huh!, I think maybe you're one of them. Fairly sure about it.

quote:

"What an inherently stupid idea, stop funding the project and it will get us the whole 100 star systems promised game sooner... and Squadron 42!"

"Well, considering that idea comes directly from Chris Roberts himself, you tell me!"

Are you suggesting Chris is telling everyone to stop contributing to the game? He's gone on social media and said - Don't give any more money! Anybody! No, you don't mean that, you probably had a memory tucked away about him saying - If someone thinks they contributed enough then don't contribute anymore, we're good. But there we go again, it's the same old talky-points arguments. It's only the deluded whales keeping the project afloat! It's not all those newcomers, can't be! Just can't be.

We're done. I can't take you seriously. You seem to have even less grasp of what this project is about, what it's purpose and history is than some who arrived last month.

Sorry, teacher says - you failed!

Mirificus posted:

Mirificus posted:

Apollodorus posted:

At least we have Star Citizen as an outlet for them to use, because I shudder to think what would happen if monocle cat were unleashed into wider society.

Mirificus posted:

Rugz posted:

I just want someone at CIG to give the dismissive 'gently caress you, no dates' bit at a live Q&A. Not because it will materially change anything, but because I want to see all the reasoning as to why that was a perfectly acceptable thing to do. I want to see that same type people who laughed at 'You guys don't have phones?' fall over themselves to forgive being told bluntly where to shove their concerns.

Experimental Skin posted:

This already happened. I want to say 4-5 years ago? Sir Robert of Space himself, after years of missing deadlines, features and point releases disappearing altogether, said no more dates, I'm terrible at estimating, and besides it's your own fault for expecting me to abide by dates, we are making history, etc.

All the Citizers of Store just nodded along.

Blue On Blue posted:

It may have been the same time but there was also a video he did also forgiving himself of the constraints of time lines. And he blessed himself as untouchable

Hobo lando was there nodding sagely with each word

I believe the words he used were “I absolve myself of this”

Good job pope crobberts

Trilobite posted:

This might have been the same time that he explained all those missed deadlines as being the result of him estimating how long it would take him, Chris Roberts, to do things, and that his employees are basically a lot slower and less capable than he is.

And they're apparently even slower and less capable than he thought, seeing as that video was years ago at this point. He sounds like a great guy to work for.

mp5 posted:

So hey there's still no game right?

Sandepande posted:

I cannot be arsed to read that tripe.

Starfield certainly feels like they sacked a bunch of level designers and went all in on engine tech and space mechanics. It's got its charms, but the POIs suck. Seen one abandoned UC listening post, seen them all. They even have that same pirate sitting on the chair outside.

Also like having wine bottles and lawn chairs undet a canopy on an airless moon with a -180 degree mean temp.

quote:

Now Starfield is out it'll likely fall even more,

quote:

Microsoft would pay just to have the Arena Commander modules

mp5 posted:

So hey there's still no game right?

Chocobo posted:

You fools, worrying about whether there is a "game" and not realizing that we've invested in a dream. It is a sad man that has no dreams.

colonelwest posted:

Sorry wrong thread…

Anyway, Star Citizen is good.

Chocobo posted:

You fools, worrying about whether there is a "game" and not realizing that we've invested in a dream. It is a sad man that has no dreams.

smoobles posted:

Does this game let you fly a spaceship?

mp5 posted:

So hey there's still no dream right?

smoobles posted:

In Star Citizen can you poop into an astronaut toilet and see it get jettisoned into space, through a window?

Blue On Blue posted:

You know someone needs to touch the poop (game) and see what state it is in

lalaland posted:

What are the odds that Chris saw the facial animations and voice acting in baldurs gate 3 and ordered all cutscenes in squadron99 to be redone for the 5th time

Sandweed posted:

The sleeping bags outside on the earths moon was my favorite immersion breaking thing.

Sandepande posted:

This is something that warrants a Lazy Devs award.

Beet Wagon posted:

vouch. ive spent the last two years deep inside CIG's skunkworks and folks, you're not gonna believe what's coming (it's nothing)

trucutru posted:

Why if gamers are going to buy your poo poo anyways?