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I officially have covid although I had to combine the buffer fluid from 3 tests to make one viable one, wow these are terrible at being shelf stable huh. It was manufactured in Jan 2022 though.
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Oct 1, 2023 15:19
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Rugz posted:The media really have done a sterling job of turning the middle class into the great enemy haven't they? The middle class did a good job of that themselves, credit where it's due. MeinPanzer posted:I know it's kind of low-hanging fruit, but I found these two reviews of the same art gallery exhibition, both in the Guardian, to be amusing: Jonathan Jones is the most tediously miserable bag of shite alive
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Oct 1, 2023 15:21
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MeinPanzer posted:I know it's kind of low-hanging fruit, but I found these two reviews of the same art gallery exhibition, both in the Guardian, to be amusing: One is The Guardian, the other is The Observer hth
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Oct 1, 2023 15:27
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alright there alan rusbridger
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Oct 1, 2023 15:32
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notaspy posted:One is The Guardian, the other is The Observer hth The difference between poo poo and shite
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Oct 1, 2023 15:46
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Crystal Thenis posted:mental illness, 13 years of being ignored, not enough attention when a baby etc. could you please speak English in thread? no one else can understand this language of yours composed entirely of slapstick fart sounds
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Oct 1, 2023 16:00
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Presumably Sunak will come out and say that fining dogs behind the wheel is an affront to British Canine Vehicular values https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/1708021846711337350?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg
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Oct 1, 2023 16:06
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smellmycheese posted:Presumably Sunak will come out and say that fining dogs behind the wheel is an affront to British Canine Vehicular values Did it even have a drever's license?
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Oct 1, 2023 16:18
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Briefcase wankers love exactly two things - feeling important by saying they have a job in the city that pays London wages, and also saving money / not encountering black people by not living anywhere near London.  Uh… I have some news for you about Manchester
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Oct 1, 2023 16:30
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forkboy84 posted:The middle class did a good job of that themselves, credit where it's due What's middle class these days? What's the cutoff between working class (bad), working class (good), and middle class?
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Oct 1, 2023 16:30
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My irony is clearly misfiring this morning, is there an interpretation of that post I'm missing?
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Oct 1, 2023 16:48
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Bobby Deluxe posted:My irony is clearly misfiring this morning, is there an interpretation of that post I'm missing? I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way but it came off as a bit ‘black people don’t exist outside of London’
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Oct 1, 2023 17:01
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Theres "working class" which is a cultural mindset. Ive seen business managers and gms describe themselves as working class despite owning like three houses and driving a Porsche because they grew up in a two bed terrace in Yorkshire ot whatever. Theres then "working class" which is people in usually precarious employment on zero hours contracts who will be homeless if they miss more than two shifts.
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Oct 1, 2023 17:08
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Drone_Fragger posted:Theres "working class" which is a cultural mindset. Ive seen business managers and gms describe themselves as working class despite owning like three houses and driving a Porsche because they grew up in a two bed terrace in Yorkshire ot whatever. So working class is being paid hourly rather than salary? Or something else? Honestly keen to hear how people define it
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Oct 1, 2023 17:12
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debtor class / creditor class
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Oct 1, 2023 17:37
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Jakabite posted:I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way but it came off as a bit ‘black people don’t exist outside of London’ Thanks for clarifying anyway.
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Oct 1, 2023 17:37
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smellmycheese posted:Presumably Sunak will come out and say that fining dogs behind the wheel is an affront to British Canine Vehicular values No wonder, looks as high as a kite.
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Oct 1, 2023 17:44
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah I see that now. Maybe it's an Oxfordshire thing but there are an absolute ton of cunts round here who talk about London the same way people like Farage talk about the made up Birmingham 'no-go zones,' while also boasting about how much they make working there. I sort of assumed people would be more familiar with that kind of weirdo but maybe they're not as universal as I thought. Where do you hang out to meet and chat with these people?
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Oct 1, 2023 17:46
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DreddyMatt posted:So working class is being paid hourly rather than salary? Working class: sells labour to survive, actual value of pay is irrelevant. Premier league footballers and part time Tesco workers both fall into this category. Upper class/capital class: survives on the labour of the above, through the power of Owning Things Middle class: a mix of both - e.g middle manager who owns a few houses and rents a couple out.
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Oct 1, 2023 17:56
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah I see that now. Maybe it's an Oxfordshire thing but there are an absolute ton of cunts round here who talk about London the same way people like Farage talk about the made up Birmingham 'no-go zones,' while also boasting about how much they make working there. I sort of assumed people would be more familiar with that kind of weirdo but maybe they're not as universal as I thought. So you took your experience with a a type of person and applied that impression to everyone who is that type of person? 
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Oct 1, 2023 18:02
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Surprise T Rex posted:Working class: sells labour to survive, actual value of pay is irrelevant. Premier league footballers and part time Tesco workers both fall into this category. So where would owning shares fall into this? Like, you can be dependent on your wages/salary for survival, but you bought a few stocks with a bit of your wages. Now if you get dividend payouts you're middle class? What if your don't get dividends and instead just sell for a profit? If you made money on GameStop, are you middle class?
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Oct 1, 2023 18:07
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Rugz, I am begging you just once can you read a post and reply to what was actually said.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:09
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DreddyMatt posted:So where would owning shares fall into this? Can't use shares as a measure these days. In the 80s and 90s, sure. But its too loving easy to get them these days, a phone app and a credit card. And it depends on how many you got too. gently caress, I have 50 shares in my company at the moment, still cant afford a down payment on a house at age 46 here. Now if you have enough shares to live of them solely, or be the majority of your income, you may be upper middle class.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:11
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Maybe it's an Oxfordshire thing but there are an absolute ton of cunts round here who talk about London the same way people like Farage talk about the made up Birmingham 'no-go zones,' while also boasting about how much they make working there. Rugz posted:So you took your experience with a a type of person Bobby Deluxe posted:I sort of assumed people would be more familiar with that kind of weirdo but maybe they're not as universal as I thought. Rugz posted:and applied that impression to everyone who is that type of person? Why would we be familiar with a certain kind of weirdo? Unless you are implying that those kind of weirdos must be everywhere because you bumped into some. You are just dressing up 'The middle class I know are cunts so they are probably all cunts'.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:14
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happyhippy posted:Can't use shares as a measure these days. So then, is it just the amount of property you own? You can be working class with a mortgage, but if your get a BTL you're middle class? Or if you're self employed you're working class, but if you get staff you're middle class? Not trying to box people into a corner with facts and logic, just wanna know what you think
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Oct 1, 2023 18:16
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there is no middle class hth
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Oct 1, 2023 18:21
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Rugz, I am begging you just once can you read a post and reply to what was actually said. If they did that they'd run out of ways to be contrarian.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:23
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imo it's hard to put a hard line of THIS is where you're no longer working class. There are people who have to work for a living - they are working class. There are people who make money simply by having money. Sometimes it's because they're BTL landlords, sometimes they're old money, or sometimes they worked for a bit and made so much money they retired at 30, like professional athletes, and now live off investments they made then. They are bourgeoisie. You can move between classes, and "middle class" is just a way of saying you can't exist solely off your money, and still have to work, but you still have non-labour income. For example, you can be a BTL landlord and still need a job, because you've got your own mortgage which would probably make you "middle class". You can also outright own your house and have a BTL property that means you make enough money to not need to work. You can also own a company where you do no work, and simply steal the surplus value your employees create. The precariousness of your position within the bourgeoisie class is irrelevant to if you are in it or not. Some people use "middle class" to mean 'makes over a certain amount of money' which is a bad way to look at it. An office worker, a lawyer, and a janitor have more in in common with each other than that the bloke round the pub who owns 4 BTL properties but had factory worker parents and only drinks Carling or w/e. Miftan fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 18:23
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah I see that now. Maybe it's an Oxfordshire thing but there are an absolute ton of cunts round here who talk about London the same way people like Farage talk about the made up Birmingham 'no-go zones,' while also boasting about how much they make working there. I sort of assumed people would be more familiar with that kind of weirdo but maybe they're not as universal as I thought. No worries mate, I imagine we have those too and they live in like, Knutsford and Cheshire.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:27
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DreddyMatt posted:So then, is it just the amount of property you own? Put in simplest terms in this context: if you own your home you're working class. If you own someone else's home, you're capital class. The middle class is for the most part a convenient fiction used to convince the better-off members of the working class that they are capital class, or can aspire to be.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:31
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Miftan posted:imo it's hard to put a hard line of THIS is where you're no longer working class. There are people who have to work for a living - they are working class. There are people who make money simply by having money. Sometimes it's because they're BTL landlords, sometimes they're old money, or sometimes they worked for a bit and made so much money they retired at 30, like professional athletes, and now live off investments they made then. They are bourgeoisie. This is a good post. So if I don't need to live off my own labour, and instead can support myself financially from the labour of others, either through property or investments, or a company I owned, I'd be upper class, but if I had some investments to supplement my income, but still had to work, I'd be middle class?
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Oct 1, 2023 18:34
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I think it’s impossible to ignore that in the UK middle class and working class are also cultural phenomena with quite a large degree of separation from your actual current material circumstances.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:36
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Jedit posted:Put in simplest terms in this context: if you own your home you're working class. If you own someone else's home, you're capital class. This sounds like a lazy definition designed to try and convince the middle class that they should all be rallying to support the working class because they are themselves in fact working class.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:37
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DreddyMatt posted:So where would owning shares fall into this? Most people who own shares are getting a few quid from dividends I imagine, so not really comparable to a BTL landlord with a small property portfolio, but as others have said already it’s a bit woolly. I’d consider someone to be middle class if they earn a not-insignificant part of their income from ownership of stuff, on an ongoing basis, but still need to work. Not an exact science.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:38
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forkboy84 posted:Jonathan Jones is the most tediously miserable bag of shite alive Was he the one who decided to write an article about how Pratchett was terrible lowbrow shite after he died, despite never having read any?
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Oct 1, 2023 18:39
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Your class is not in fact dependent on anything you do in your life, it’s what your parents did. You can’t change your own class, only that of your children. It’s also not about owning property or capitalising off the labour of others, there are plenty of working class people who do that. It’s all artificial and designed to keep people in their station, so we don’t rise up against our real enemy, aristocracy and royalty.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:43
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Jakabite posted:I think it’s impossible to ignore that in the UK middle class and working class are also cultural phenomena with quite a large degree of separation from your actual current material circumstances. Yeah, there's definitely this too. Like, I'd argue that maybe currently class is more divided along cultural norms than how you earn your money. You can be wage dependent but only drink red wine and shop at Waitrose and that's more a signifier that you're middle class rather than an electrician with 2 vans and 4 employees that drinks Stella, and still considered working class. See also posts like: crispix posted:did someone scrawl somethingawful.com on a loving flat roof pub toilet cubicle? Flat roof pub (with at George's cross in the window) screams working class, but here that's coded 'bad', compared to other posts where middle being class is terrible. It's a minefield
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Oct 1, 2023 18:46
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Interesting definitions of working / middle class above. I've always felt class was a lot about culture. Once you've been to university, say, you're middle class regardless of income and without getting any income other than by the sweat of your brow. Used to amuse me years ago in The Party when everyone played this "my grandparents were more working class than your parents" oneupmanship game. (Onedownmanship?) Many working class people have a much higher income than many middle class people. Where would you put what I've always considered the "impoverished intellectual" class - teachers vicars social workers academics librarians etc? Culturally middle class but on the whole pretty low paid (other than say the very upper tiers) and most definitely not owning a property portfolio.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:55
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They're just fancy lads (applies to all genders)
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Oct 1, 2023 18:59
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Interesting definitions of working / middle class above. Exactly. If you need a degree for your job, teacher etc, then you're by default seen as both middle class on terms of culture, but working class in terms of income. It's a strange situation. I suppose you can argue yourself up or down depending on the situation
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Oct 1, 2023 19:00
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