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I know plenty of people with degrees who are stuck in unskilled ‘working class’ jobs because they got a degree in something that turned out to be absolutely useless for getting any kind of fancy job, fwiw
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Oct 1, 2023 19:02
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Daily mail esque "degrees in David Beckham" stories for the 2000s E: so then you go back to posts like this Rugz posted:The media really have done a sterling job of turning the middle class into the great enemy haven't they? And wonder who are the media actually arguing against? It becomes like a catch all term, similar to 'woke' for just "someone I disagree with' DreddyMatt fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 19:03
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I think there are different definitions. In the strict Marxist sense there are two classes and you either own the means of production or you don't, and even that is getting blurred as technology and capitalism conspire to find new and inventive ways of wringing productivity and profit out of the system. The other meaning of class as most people seem to understand it is tied up in aspects of regionalism, education, accent and affect, which is how you can have the middle class daughter of a teacher and senior administrator Jess Phillips talk about being working class because she occasionally remembers to say bab at the end of sentences.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:05
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History Comes Inside! posted:I know plenty of people with degrees who are stuck in unskilled ‘working class’ jobs because they got a degree in something that turned out to be absolutely useless for getting any kind of fancy job, fwiw no such thing as unskilled labour hth
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Oct 1, 2023 19:07
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I think the spectrum between being dependent on selling your labour and being dependent on rich people stuff like investments and property is a useful one. One group benefits from things which prop up house prices and "the market", the other group gets fired in order that the people with investments can make money off it. People can have one foot in each, which is where the utiltiy of "middle class" comes from. I think that's the modern form of rigid marxist prole/booj. And also the problem because the country's full of landlords and pensioners and just general dickheads who seem to do well enough out of capitalism that they don't want to rock the boat.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:09
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You're working class if you have a non-RP accent. Alan Sugar is a working class billionaire. His words are those of the working class. He speaks for the working classes from his private plane.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:23
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Likewise the homeless guy who talks like prince charles I used to know is a member of the bourgeoisie and must be put to the guillotine forthwith
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Oct 1, 2023 19:27
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Perhaps an interesting question would be: where do you, goon, see yourself in this nebulous hierarchy, and why? Me and my partner have a mortgage, and above average salaried jobs. We're both left leaning guardian readers, so I guess that makes us middle class? Although we'd be hosed if either of us lost our job, so maybe we're just working class? Rate yourselves, goons
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Oct 1, 2023 19:29
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I always thought of it in purely financial terms. If you cant go more than 3 months with zero income from your labour you're working class. If you can you're Capital. However when you actually get into the cultural terminology it gets very messy. I know people who think of themselves as working class, earn 100k+ a year as tradeys etc and they are by cultural definitions absolutely correct. I also know people who would call themselves middle class because of their parents/schooling and they're barely surviving on 26k a year. They are also culturally correct. Basically its a minefield and you'll always be wrong.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:31
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DesperateDan posted:no such thing as unskilled labour Lol. I can show you the results of some
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Oct 1, 2023 19:34
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Ideas have value. Since that isn't selling labour at all I guess that is an upper-middle class perspective.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:37
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I don’t really think about it to be honest. I’m Sigma class. In reality I’ve always worked for my money. When I lost my dad I got a bit of a windfall and plowed that into stocks and getting myself off the ground and as a freelancer (and spaffed a lot of it on fun stuff and holidays), but nowhere near enough to no longer need to work. Culturally I’m much more working class but can code switch to be comfortable wherever really, outside of like the hyper posh types or, god forbid, countryside posh. So yeah I don’t know; it’s not something I think about but whenever it comes up in conversation it’s generally about something political or someone being a snooty oval office about the pub or whatever so I tend to say working class I suppose.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:39
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serious gaylord posted:
New thread title
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Oct 1, 2023 19:43
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Lol. I can show you the results of some sounds more like poor supervision imo
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Oct 1, 2023 19:53
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DesperateDan posted:sounds more like poor supervision imo It's the bits I've done
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Oct 1, 2023 19:54
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Rugz posted:Ideas have value. Since that isn't selling labour at all I guess that is an upper-middle class perspective. Value can be negative. It's entirely possible to belong to one class before posting in the thread, and to belong to an altogether different class after sharing a series of bad takes.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:00
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I’m university educated, homeowner (via mortgage, not outright), no kids, and I’m paid a solid wage on account of being a computer toucher. I think most people would describe me as middle class based on that information. We can afford to be a single income household while my wife works to set up her own business, and often don’t have to panic financially even despite the single income. I personally feel like I’m working class, since we’re a single income household we have a lot less savings than I would find comfortable and we can hardly spend with reckless abandon. If I lost my job and couldn’t get another in a month or two things would certainly get scary. I think this is because I sort of ignore the cultural aspects of the UK class designation and as my initial explanation implied I sort of see it through the lens of worker/capital instead, when maybe that’s really just a separate categorisation entirely.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:02
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I’m university educated, homeowner (via mortgage, not outright), no kids, and I’m paid a solid wage on account of being a computer toucher. I think most people would describe me as middle class based on how my mother forced me to learn the cello (N.B. I gave it up as soon as I was allowed), go to the opera, and speak with RP.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:06
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DreddyMatt posted:Perhaps an interesting question would be: where do you, goon, see yourself in this nebulous hierarchy, and why? Economically - definitely working class in the Marxist sense. I have approx. three months savings in hand that a number of unplanned expenses in quick succession (car trouble, broken boiler, sudden surge in interest rates) would deplete far quicker than I could hope to replenish. I absolutely have to sell my time and labour to Capital in order to survive. I have zero passive income or economically-working assets to my name. My wages are not keeping pace with inflation and cost of living rises and in relative terms have not moved for a decade. Financially - I make less than the average wage (low-£20ks/yr). I am a 'homeowner' in the sense that I have a home with a mortgage, which I was only remotely able to afford due to inheritance and that I am only able to keep paying due to my partner now being on that mortgage with me. Employment - Despite my 'working class' economic status and finances, my actual job is a relatively arty-farty vaguely creative one based around turning knowledge and experience into words and videos. So hardly like putting in a shift in the Fulfilment Centre, roofing houses or waiting tables all day. Post-covid we are now 100% work from home (so that makes me a 'woke middle class millenial' to some) and I'm not working for a glamorous publishing house in London, but churning out 'content' in a small city in the East Midlands. Culturally - insufferably middle class. Came from a family where both parents were uni-educated white-collar professionals, grew up in a large house with a nice garden in rural Hampshire, skiing holidays in the spring, holidays in Cornwall in the autumn. My childhood passion was sailing, my sister's was horses. Private prep school, private secondary school, Russell-Group university to do an economically useless humanities degree. I talk like a Pathe newsreel announcer from the 1950s. Next weekend I'm going into London to see a Gilbert & Sullivan opera. If I hadn't always found that 'scene' and the people in it absolutely insufferable I could easily have fallen into the Henley Regatta/Glyndebourne/Klosters/Papa's Place In Tuscany/Off To Sandhurst To Join The Family Regiment crowd. Except that as an adult I wouldn't have had the money to keep 'in' with them even if I wanted to. So I'm definitely one of the "people who would call themselves middle class because of their parents/schooling and they're barely surviving on 26k[sic] a year" that serious gaylord mentioned.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:07
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To claim to be university educated do you have to have finished it?
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Oct 1, 2023 20:07
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What's the level below working class? Because I'm literally that.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:11
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Twitterati
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Oct 1, 2023 20:13
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Value can be negative. It's entirely possible to belong to one class before posting in the thread, and to belong to an altogether different class after sharing a series of bad takes. Accepting that ideas can have positive value is an argument for the existence of executives.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:13
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We can also go into the British establishment definition of working class too, where you can be genetically working class because you had a parent or grandparent who worked a traditionally working class job. You yourself might have been born into riches, sent off to private school and graduated from Oxbridge with PPE, but your blood inherently understands the struggles of your working class granddad who toiled away at a factory to set up his now household name business.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:14
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Rugz posted:Accepting that ideas can have positive value is an argument for the existence of executives. ah yes, the creative class
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Oct 1, 2023 20:17
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Gorn Myson posted:We can also go into the British establishment definition of working class too, where you can be genetically working class because you had a parent or grandparent who worked a traditionally working class job. You yourself might have been born into riches, sent off to private school and graduated from Oxbridge with PPE, but your blood inherently understands the struggles of your working class granddad who toiled away at a factory to set up his now household name business. my father was a toolmaker
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Oct 1, 2023 20:23
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I think most people would describe me as middle class based on how my mother forced me to learn the cello (N.B. I gave it up as soon as I was allowed), go to the opera, and speak with RP. You're basically Jacob Rees mogg E: a classic of the genre kecske posted:my father was a toolmaker poo poo is certainly difficult DreddyMatt fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 20:24
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NotJustANumber99 posted:It's the bits I've done You cant argue it hasnt had value to the professional who had to come and fix it.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:25
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https://twitter.com/keepnhspublic/status/1708443582204461369 NHS workers are terrorists now
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Oct 1, 2023 20:29
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fuctifino posted:https://twitter.com/keepnhspublic/status/1708443582204461369 3 vans Jeremy? You're insane
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Oct 1, 2023 20:30
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Jakabite posted:Likewise the homeless guy who talks like prince charles I used to know is a member of the bourgeoisie and must be put to the guillotine forthwith By definition this guy isn't working class
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Oct 1, 2023 20:35
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kecske posted:my father was a toolmaker Kieth account spotted.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:36
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I watch things like this and I still can't believe it's not some kind of satire https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1708507880888963105 I mean, WTF?!?... fuctifino fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 20:41
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NotJustANumber99 posted:It's the bits I've done my point stands like a boutique employee rest area
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Oct 1, 2023 20:43
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DesperateDan posted:no such thing as unskilled labour Guardian columnist? Nobody said the labour had to be especially taxing
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Oct 1, 2023 20:46
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Gene Ricman posted:Lurker here, just trying to unpack this "tax burden is the highest its been in 70 years" meme that tories seem to be bleating on about at the minute. It sounds & smells like bullshit, last time I checked corporation tax is still lower than it was in the early 2000s, basic rate is the lowest its ever been, etc. This post is from the fossil record of 10 pages back, but as a matrilineal upper-middle middle class person I feel secure in my family's ability to support me sufficiently that I can indulge in archaeology rather than things of immediate practical use. The "tax burden is at its highest since WW2" is a sloppy journo's summary of this report from the institute for fiscal studies, a thinktank that loves markets. https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record It's not even that long and the stuff it contains adds a hell of a lot of caveats to the title. which are: 1) The tax burden is historically high, but a big wedge of that is corporation tax going up (which you only feel if you are a corporation), the energy profits levy (which is overwhelmingly popular) and people creeping into higher tax brackets (salaries have been raised to keep up with inflation, but the tax brackets haven't been revised up at the same time). 2) The tax burden is not high compared with similar developed countries. 3) Unlike other similar countries which did increase tax between '08 and '19, the UK was doing George Osborne's austerity to stimulate growth and reduce the deficit. This was broadly unsuccessful in its stated aims, and has meant UKPLC asset-stripped its own future by not spending any money fixing anything for a decade. Something we are now having to spend much more money to rectify. 4) Tax burden is measured in this report as a percentage of GDP, so had austerity been successful and the economy had grown the burden would have been less. The tone of the report is so far off what the title indicates I think that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the authors chose a guaranteed headline grabber and it's confounded their plans because nobody read further than that headline.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:50
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah I see that now. Maybe it's an Oxfordshire thing but there are an absolute ton of cunts round here who talk about London the same way people like Farage talk about the made up Birmingham 'no-go zones,' while also boasting about how much they make working there. I sort of assumed people would be more familiar with that kind of weirdo but maybe they're not as universal as I thought. there are definitely parts of Birmingham that white people should not be walking through at night silly Middle Englander
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Oct 1, 2023 20:52
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Jakabite posted:I don’t really think about it to be honest. I’m Sigma class. ploughed money from a windfall into stocks and shares, calls himself working class you silly sods live on another planet in here
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Oct 1, 2023 20:54
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Crystal Penis more like
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Oct 1, 2023 20:56
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I wonder if they have any sense of regret or self awareness once the alcohol and probable cocaine wears off?
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Oct 1, 2023 20:59
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