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Shipon posted:Gamers aren't going to spend Apple prices for the most part, especially with an OS that doesn't let you do a ton of things. "Gamers" is a huge demographic that covers a lot of preferences, play types, etc. If by "gamers" you mean "Nvidia Stans", then sure. A decently-equipped M3 Pro or M4 Pro Mac mini is not exactly bank-breaking prices; you can get a well-equipped Pro mini now for less than a 4090 and in some instances a 4080. Also, most of the market I'm talking about, aren't probably using Windows for anything that macOS also can't easily handle. shrike82 posted:not sure the entry level gaming dGPU market is big enough for them to care about. They already kinda rule-the-roost when it comes to phone and tablet gaming in a lot of ways. But if a 16- or 18-year old who grew up playing on an iPhone or iPad wants to get a laptop or a desktop/monitor combo to also do stuff on, that's a potential easy sell if the MacBook Airs/Pros and Mac minis have reasonably-performant hardware. Of course, it requires Apple make investment into supporting developers and porting over games, etc., but that seems to be what they're slowly doing? Again, none of that spiel I made, was targeted toward the Gaming Bourgeoisie that typically dominate the discussions of this thread. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 03:22
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BG3 has an apple native version and it plays really well on a MBP. I think Apple is as long way off from being a destination for a gaming machine but if you have one anyway the gaming experience is a lot better than I think most realize and it's rapidly getting better.
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Oct 1, 2023 05:22
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Apple has a long history of developing hardware and software, courting/paying developers, releasing some decent performing ports of popular games, and then nothing! Games on Mac other than the previous categories have been in SPITE of Apple, who doesn't seem to understand whatever it is that Nintendo, Sony, Steam and Microsoft do that lets them profit specifically on selling games and systems.
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Oct 1, 2023 07:05
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SourKraut posted:A decently-equipped M3 Pro or M4 Pro Mac mini is not exactly bank-breaking prices; you can get a well-equipped Pro mini now for less than a 4090 and in some instances a 4080. How is the future where you can buy M3 and M4 chips? Is Donald trump president again?
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Oct 1, 2023 07:29
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Arivia posted:How is the future where you can buy M3 and M4 chips? Is Donald trump president again? Who knows, but with the way the country is going, he probably will be! Otherwise though, we know that M3 and M4 will come at some point; we also know that Apple is almost certainly going to add hardware ray tracing to M3, given it was just added to A17. So, common sense and a health amount of intelligence would suggest that within the next 1-3 years, both will be available, and likely at the same prices as the current minis, given their recent trend. Edit: I shouldn't do any type of personal comment/attack. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 07:51
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LRADIKAL posted:Apple has a long history of developing hardware and software, courting/paying developers, releasing some decent performing ports of popular games, and then nothing!
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Oct 1, 2023 07:58
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LRADIKAL posted:Apple has a long history of developing hardware and software, courting/paying developers, releasing some decent performing ports of popular games, and then nothing! Games on Mac other than the previous categories have been in SPITE of Apple, who doesn't seem to understand whatever it is that Nintendo, Sony, Steam and Microsoft do that lets them profit specifically on selling games and systems. Shumagorath posted:Generational rug-pulling is in Apple’s brainstem. BUT THIS TIME IT WILL BE DIFFERENT! I post, as I rapidly mash the Option and Control keys for no particular reason. I do agree though, it's far more likely than not, that nothing comes of it, beyond what LRADIKAL said. Which is unfortunate, because they've generally made a pretty good GPU option with the Apple Silicon M# series.
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Oct 1, 2023 08:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:hmm... I was thinking you're nitpicking until I realized that my YouTube resolution was set to 480p. I guess the good news is that at 480p it's far less noticeable! re: Apple and gaming, I don't think we'll see it anytime soon. My impression is that Apple probably views gaming (and gamers, honestly) as damaging to their 'professoinal' branding. I don't think they want to be associated with 19 year olds yelling gamer words. And even non-idiot gamers are experts in finding out ways to make hardware break and they're not going to want to fill their support hotlines with dudes complaining that their waifu doesn't render right. And that's only a headache you have only after you can actually attract a substantial crowd to your system. I don't even know if it makes sense financially. Their phones and tablets practically sell themselves as long as they don't gently caress them up. I must imagine that spennding R&D and marketing on making games happen may at the very least worsen their cost ratios, even if it isn't a net negative for their profits, of which they have enough already. I don't think they'll lower themselves on our level anytime soon. Lord Stimperor fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 10:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think there was probably a mistake made in the settings menu if he was only getting 10 fps with RT Ultra enabled while using DLSS. The 4060 is capable of better than that at native 1080p or 1440p. I dunno if the rest of my rig being 8 to 10 years old and only having PCIe 3.0 on my motherboard might be having something to do with it. I can't quite remember the exact settings, but I'm pretty sure I was just flicking between the preset settings for Cyberpunk. I didn't have the hardware GPU acceleration setting active on Windows 10 at the time so couldn't activate those other DLSS options I mentioned, so dunno if that had something to do with it too. Basically IIRC, I got about 30/40 FPS on "high" ray tracing but ultra definitely dropped it to sub 20/~10 FPS range. The overdrive mode isn't all great though. I can't seem to activate vsynch so I've got screen tears all over the place. I dunno if overdrive is just ultra with those 2 new DLSS settings active though, but if it is, I was just surprised by the jump in framerate I saw.
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Oct 1, 2023 10:48
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Overdrive is a separate mode with a radically different approach to ray tracing. Nvidia calls it path tracing or "full ray tracing," though it's probably not really path tracing in the way people who work with CG rendering may think of. Every light source and every object is accounted for, with more light bounces being tracked for much more accurate lighting, shadows, and reflections. It's pretty neat, but it's also absolutely brutal to run. You can likely get over 60fps with RT Ultra instead of RT Overdrive, if you use DLSS and Frame Generation, though the rest of your system being dated is probably holding you back some. edit: RT Ultra on the left, RT Overdrive on the right    
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 11:11
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I look froward to an analysis of FSR3 because my experience in the Forespoken demo was awful. Like it absolutely felt like I was playing at the real frame rate (not a surprise), but didn't actually look much smoother if at all. I did turn off freesync. Even if the implementation here is worse, it did make me question the value of frame gen a bit, since like I said it did feel like I was playing at the lower frame rate. I don't know if I really care about the visuals being more fluid if that's not reflected in the responsiveness. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:edit: RT Ultra on the left, RT Overdrive on the right fyi, Kin, the difference might seem subtle here, but it's a world of difference when you're playing with it on.
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Oct 1, 2023 11:35
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I think those are pretty big differences, lol. There's only so much you can do to change the look of a scene when all of the assets and lighting conditions are identical anyway.
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Oct 1, 2023 11:44
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think those are pretty big differences, lol. There's only so much you can do to change the look of a scene when all of the assets and lighting conditions are identical anyway. I more meant that you have to play spot the difference when you're looking at side by side images to appreciate the difference, whereas you'll feel it if you just play a few minutes with each.
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Oct 1, 2023 11:47
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Lord Stimperor posted:I was thinking you're nitpicking until I realized that my YouTube resolution was set to 480p. I guess the good news is that at 480p it's far less noticeable! Theres also the Asian markets where mobile gaming is immense. The small foray into the non-mobile games market like with RE4R seems like its going to be added incentive to be competetive in the mobile market rather than a major concern. What will confirm this is how the M3 turns out. Also yeah the market adoption may not be as good since people remember Apple pulling support on a whim for things that arent in the 90% use case. A lot of these iphone 15 pros will never run a game a vastly cheaper phone couldnt. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 14:17
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Overdrive is a separate mode with a radically different approach to ray tracing. Nvidia calls it path tracing or "full ray tracing," though it's probably not really path tracing in the way people who work with CG rendering may think of. Every light source and every object is accounted for, with more light bounces being tracked for much more accurate lighting, shadows, and reflections. It's pretty neat, but it's also absolutely brutal to run. You can likely get over 60fps with RT Ultra instead of RT Overdrive, if you use DLSS and Frame Generation, though the rest of your system being dated is probably holding you back some. Aha cheers for the explanation. I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make, but I've just ordered a whole bunch of more modern parts including CPU, motherboard, RAM and storage. I'll give ultra a bash with frame generation and see what's up. Though it would be cool if I run that overdrive mode without the card blowing up. I know I kinda cheaped out a little and got a card that only had 8Gb VRAM instead of 12 and it already hit a few limits with RE4 and it's silly high texture/shadow options. Edit: just tested it and yup with Frame Generation, I'm now getting a steady 47 FPS on the benchmark. Game looks lovely. One thing though. I'm still getting fairly bad screen tear and the vsynch option is disabled with FG switched on. Any idea how to tackle this? Kin fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 14:53
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:https://media.tenor.com/TOQDjTGlTu0AAAAd/event-horizon-hell.gif This was a bit much to have displaying without a link. I edited it out.
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Oct 2, 2023 00:06
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RTX 4070 for $519 after coupon code: https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforce-rtx-4070-zt-d40700e-10m/p/N82E16814500550 That's a bit more like it.
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Oct 2, 2023 00:12
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:RTX 4070 for $519 after coupon code: https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforce-rtx-4070-zt-d40700e-10m/p/N82E16814500550 https://www.newegg.com/sapphire-radeon-rx-7800-xt-21330-01-20g/p/N82E16814202437 7800xt's are going for 500 or 450 if you do the zipit payment plan. But yeah this seems to be the go to for less then completely awful pricing this generation. time stamped for benchmarks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0jVvS6DtLE&t=516s wargames fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 01:51
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wargames posted:https://www.newegg.com/sapphire-radeon-rx-7800-xt-21330-01-20g/p/N82E16814202437 The ZIPIT code applies to the 4070 too. It applies to all GPUs, and just about any other product on Newegg. I didn't mention it because it's a universal store-wide coupon code that requires you to use a predatory credit service.
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Oct 2, 2023 01:59
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That requires you to use a predatory credit service. Could you still pay it off in one go without doing any credit/interest stuff, or does it force you to actually finance it?
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Oct 2, 2023 03:42
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what is the percentage performance impact of using a PCIe 4.0x16 GPU in a 3.0x16 slot? Assuming you have a pretty decent gaming GPU like a 5800x3d
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Oct 2, 2023 05:27
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orange juche posted:what is the percentage performance impact of using a PCIe 4.0x16 GPU in a 3.0x16 slot? Assuming you have a pretty decent gaming GPU like a 5800x3d In TechPowerUp's testing, they found a 2% difference on average with the 4090 at 1440p and 4K: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/ Though some games may perform a bit worse while others are largely unaffected. Metro Exodus for instance takes a pretty big hit in their testing (13% worse at 4K), but it seems to be the biggest outlier. There may be some other outliers that went untested, but for the most part it doesn't seem to matter. It's a bigger concern for cards that may already only have x8 or x4 interfaces. x4 cards like the 6500 XT can run into problems at PCIe 3.0. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 05:42
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:In TechPowerUp's testing, they found a 2% difference on average with the 4090 at 1440p and 4K: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/ Sweet, I figured it was only a small percent drop, I'm running a 5800x3d on an X470 motherboard, and while I was prepared to buy an X570 board if needed to get 4.0x16 slots, I was hoping I wouldn't have to ship of theseus my computer any more than I already have. The next upgrade after GPU is going to be rebuilding the entire system on Zen 5 or whatever comes out after the 7000 series Ryzens. I upgrade part of my PC every few years, CPU/mobo/ram/case then GPU, but since I upgraded the motherboard last time they've gone from 3.0x16 to 5.0x16. E: I may still clean slate it, because I've pushed the RAM expandability to its limits, and I've got a sub-par storage solution going on right now, so it might be time to just start over with a brand new build, and carry over my current GPU and upgrade it 6 months down the road when new GPUs are out/they're trying to kill off stock of current gen GPUs before next gen releases. orange juche fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 05:59
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That Newegg trade-in thing they're doing is such an obvious scam I feel so bad for the people who get bamboozled by this.
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Oct 2, 2023 14:45
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The part about how they can change the offer after getting it feels very much like how CEX in the UK will always give you less than quoted on the website because they search for some tiny little imperfection. Someone is totally going to have $30 cut off their quote because the fans were dusty.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:53
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I'm budgeting out an upgrade to my rhythm game setup for later this year, and need to replace the old GTX 980 graphics card that the system currently uses that has been failing for a bit with a newer one. The actual arcade PCs run GTX 1650s in them on a win10 iot install, so I really don't need anything fancy. I'm pretty much just looking to drive a 1080p monitor at 144+ hz to upgrade from the super old 60hz display it uses today. Would a 1650 be something that could do that on a full windows 10 box? Or do I need something mildly more beefy than that? I'm inclined to say it could, the actual machines themselves run at 120hz in the arcade so I think the power should be alright considering the games themselves are very much not graphically intensive Ideally, I'm basically looking for the cheapest thing I can stick in there, and ideally something that just takes power from the PCIE slot rather than needing to be separately powered, but I mean the cables are already there so it's not like it's a hassle to plug it in. Eventually I want to migrate entirely out of the big mid-size case that the old PC is in and rebuild it in a smaller media center PC configuration, but since I don't need much GPU power anyway I don't think size will become a constraint. Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 15:53
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Weird Pumpkin posted:I'm budgeting out an upgrade to my rhythm game setup for later this year, and need to replace the old GTX 980 graphics card that the system currently uses that has been failing for a bit with a newer one. What are you actually emulating? Most likely your GPU is not going to be working very hard at all. Even iGPUs are typically strong enough. So yeah, a 1650 would almost certainly be fine.
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Oct 2, 2023 16:38
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it wouldn't be emulating anything, modern arcade machines are just windows PCs and it's possible to acquire the binaries by dubious means
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Oct 2, 2023 16:39
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It's Monday where are the FSR3 analysis vids!!!
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Oct 2, 2023 16:42
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repiv posted:it wouldn't be emulating anything, modern arcade machines are just windows PCs and it's possible to acquire the binaries by dubious means yeah they're actually all just windows applications, both the dubious ones and the official applications. Mostly I'm just not sure about refresh rate. I only need to hit 120 FPS for any bemani rhythm games at most as they generally don't support higher than that and those are the games that I'm interested in playing, so mostly Soundvoltex and IIDX, plus some custom DDR sorta stuff It sounds like I could toss a little 1650 in there though and be fine. Maybe I can splurge and get a 1660 open box or something for a little more just in case
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Oct 2, 2023 16:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's Monday where are the FSR3 analysis vids!!! Just big AMD hiding the videos.
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Oct 2, 2023 17:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's Monday where are the FSR3 analysis vids!!! it's fine enable FSR3 and AFMF at the same time and enjoy 4x the frames with no downsides 
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Oct 2, 2023 17:08
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Overdrive is a separate mode with a radically different approach to ray tracing. Nvidia calls it path tracing or "full ray tracing," though it's probably not really path tracing in the way people who work with CG rendering may think of. I also wonder if NVIDIA will attempt to go all in with path tracing specific optimizations in the RT cores in the upcoming 5000 series. Trying to optimize for bi-directional path tracing or this Metropolis Light Transport stuff.
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Oct 2, 2023 17:22
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repiv posted:it's fine enable FSR3 and AFMF at the same time and enjoy 4x the frames with no downsides A gameplay experience I could get just by taking my glasses off!
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Oct 2, 2023 18:28
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repiv posted:it's fine enable FSR3 and AFMF at the same time and enjoy 4x the frames with no downsides I'm seeing double! Four Forspokens!
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Oct 2, 2023 18:38
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Combat Pretzel posted:If I had to guess, they're traditionally rasterizing all different layers deferred renderers do, except for the color and shadow layers, that'd get path traced and fixed up by AI magic. yeah cyberpunk still rasterizes the gbuffer, but then everything after that is done with raytracing. raster is good enough for primary visibility and it's more economical for now. rtx remix eschews rasterization altogether because of course it does, there's potentially advantages to doing it that way but i don't think they're taking advantage of them
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Oct 2, 2023 18:39
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change my name posted:I'm seeing double! Four Forspokens! Four games in one! Truly the most economical gaming that AMD has ever offered!
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Oct 2, 2023 18:52
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Maybe it's one of those 3D setups where each player wears a different set of polarized lenses so you can have split screen with 1 screen
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Oct 2, 2023 19:01
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Combat Pretzel posted:I also wonder if NVIDIA will attempt to go all in with path tracing specific optimizations in the RT cores in the upcoming 5000 series. Trying to optimize for bi-directional path tracing or this Metropolis Light Transport stuff. Outside of a few weird algorithms, visibility queries are the bottleneck so focusing on that will always be a better use of silicon versus dedicating hardware to the statistical machinery.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:07
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Grapplejack posted:That Newegg trade-in thing they're doing is such an obvious scam I feel so bad for the people who get bamboozled by this. I’m kinda torn on it. I know they have to keep margins so you’re gonna get fair less than doing a Craigslist/ebay sale, though the latter with fees/shipping might narrow your own margins. But the ToS stuff seems questionable and Newegg has given nobody any reason to trust them and it would suck getting screwed by them until Steve chews them out and they reverse course 4 months later with a legal-approved twitter apology.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:11
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