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feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cutedge posted:

but honestly I think a lot of people went to play it and didn't like flying a spaceship in first person.

A bunch of people played and still play Tie Fighter and X-Wing: Alliance so I'm not sure that's the problem. More that it was just the same couple of fights over and over.

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trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
"Wait, the moon doesn't have an atmosphere? "

-Todd Howard

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

feedmegin posted:

A bunch of people played and still play Tie Fighter and X-Wing: Alliance so I'm not sure that's the problem. More that it was just the same couple of fights over and over.

Tend to agree. I had it for free and I think I stopped after one mission and a few gos in the multiplayer.
Just tedious.

jarlywarly
Aug 31, 2018
Star Wars: Squadrons flying the A-wing in MP in VR with a stick and throttle was so loving amazing.

I might have to dig it out again and see whether it's still alive at all.

Mr Fronts
Jan 31, 2016

Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.
Nipplejets 2023!

bres0048
Oct 29, 2012

Odd memory of Wing commander was if you went on a mission and burned in a random direction for a long time you would eventually find a fence that said something along the lines of edge of the galaxy.

Blackstone
Feb 13, 2012

bres0048 posted:

Odd memory of Wing commander was if you went on a mission and burned in a random direction for a long time you would eventually find a fence that said something along the lines of edge of the galaxy.

Are you sure that was wing commander? Never saw it and it’s the first time I hear about it.

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

jarlywarly posted:

Star Wars: Squadrons flying the A-wing in MP in VR with a stick and throttle was so loving amazing.

I might have to dig it out again and see whether it's still alive at all.

Steamcharts says it has generally 100-200 players online at any given point.

Squadrons not getting more multiplayer types or having a conquest map a la Helldivers or even a general "empire's point value vs rebel's point values" system is a major let down. Having an overarching meta would have given it a little more sticking power I think. It definitely could have been better.

I just still think that this genre, which I do really love, is ultimately niche enough to scoff at PC's claim that microsoft would gladly pay hundreds of millions of dollars to get not even Star Citizen proper but Arena Commander is laughable.

Cutedge fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 2, 2023

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
I think the problem with the genre is that it seems every developer thinks a space game has to be some huge everything sandbox game that is walking, flying, station interiors, ship interiors, new planets, aliens, etc.

While one day I believe The Dream space game will come true, they seem to ignore that a space game can sometimes just be a space game. A space shooter, if you will.

Squadrons was a great example of having a decent narrative experience with the customization you expect from a “shooter” without trying to make it so massive.

In fact, its only real negative is really that multiplayer is so limited and gets stale pretty quickly. If they would have released DLC campaigns or expanded MP or made it so you could make your own battles like you could in XWA and XvTIE, it would still be sufficiently “alive” today. Well, maybe also because it is based in the sequel timeline, but only in a minor way.

The game was just a passion project anyway. You can tell. And it was lucky to get a green light. Game is awesome, otherwise.

Imagine if you could have had a version of DCS or IL-2 or whatever (I am talking customization, map making, campaign building) in Star Wars. Would be absolute tits.

dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 2, 2023

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

Turns out the real Star Citizen was the friends we made along the way

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

dialhforhero posted:

I think the problem with the genre is that it seems every developer thinks a space game has to be some huge everything sandbox game that is walking, flying, station interiors, ship interiors, new planets, aliens, etc.

While one day I believe The Dream space game will come true, they seem to ignore that a space game can sometimes just be a space game. A space shooter, if you will.

Squadrons was a great example of having a decent narrative experience with the customization you expect from a “shooter” without trying to make it so massive.

In fact, its only real negative is really that multiplayer is so limited and gets stale pretty quickly. If they would have released DLC campaigns or expanded MP or made it so you could make your own battles like you could in XWA and XvTIE, it would still be sufficiently “alive” today. Well, maybe also because it is based in the sequel timeline, but only in a minor way.

The game was just a passion project anyway. You can tell. And it was lucky to get a green light. Game is awesome, otherwise.

Imagine if you could have had a version of DCS or IL-2 or whatever (I am talking customization, map making, campaign building) in Star Wars. Would be absolute tits.

It’s true, all of it

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

dialhforhero posted:


Imagine if you could have had a version of DCS or IL-2 or whatever (I am talking customization, map making, campaign building) in Star Wars. Would be absolute tits.

You can have that my dude. Just mod the tie fighters in and make your own star wars campaign.

The fact that, apparently, this hasn't happened means that it probably won't be tits.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
Don’t literally mean DCS or IL-2, I mean something like how you can build really neat and detailed missions in DCS and you can make cool dynamic campaigns in IL-2. The fidelity of the mission creators are impressive.

MODDING DCS to make it a space game would be a nightmare, on top of the incredible amount of time just spent on art/modeling.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
sound
https://i.imgur.com/hOd3h7K.mp4

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012





This is like the worst possible cat household. Lots of jumpable surfaces all full of clutter.

Worst for the human. Fun for the cat.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.
I think the general mistake that a lot of people make is that "Space" is not a genre. It's just a setting, and a pretty bland setting at that. Setting out to make a space game is a terrible idea.

Shockingly, space is mostly empty nothingness and it doesn't add much to a game to fly around in it endlessly. If it did we would have already had a lot of games where you sail across the ocean in realtime while nothing much happens.
You've got to actually do something with the setting like Homeworld with the 3d fleet battles or whatever it is about Eve that makes people want to play it.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️

Fidelitious posted:

whatever it is about Eve that makes people want to play it.

Tbh psychopathy plays a part

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
So apparently they released a Tank Royale mode, where players fight it out in the handful of tanks in game. There is apparently a bug where the tanks drive like they are on ice and a player figured out if you ram into a rock hard enough it fixes the bug and the tanks drive normally.

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

onesixtwo
Apr 27, 2014

Don't you realize that being nice just makes you get hurt?

Popete posted:

So apparently they released a Tank Royale mode, where players fight it out in the handful of tanks in game. There is apparently a bug where the tanks drive like they are on ice and a player figured out if you ram into a rock hard enough it fixes the bug and the tanks drive normally.

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

space game

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Popete posted:

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

I'm pretty sure they think that's what the suckers customers are for.

Traveller
Jan 6, 2012

WHIM AND FOPPERY

Fidelitious posted:

or whatever it is about Eve that makes people want to play it.

Aren't most citizens humongous carebears that are terrified of player pirates even thinking of blowing their Idrises (Idriii?) up?

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster

Popete posted:

So apparently they released a Tank Royale mode, where players fight it out in the handful of tanks in game. There is apparently a bug where the tanks drive like they are on ice and a player figured out if you ram into a rock hard enough it fixes the bug and the tanks drive normally.

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

One of the weirdest things I ever saw was the guy that made a rock music video of his in-game tank shooting at nothing.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

Lammasu posted:

One of the weirdest things I ever saw was the guy that made a rock music video of his in-game tank shooting at nothing.

That was a fun one. The dramatic shots of a tank just firing shells (do year 3000 tanks still shoot shells?) at the horizon.

Maybe it was an art piece.

AndreTheGiantBoned
Oct 28, 2010
Does anybody have the link?

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012




AndreTheGiantBoned posted:

Does anybody have the link?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/play-now

FishMcCool
Apr 9, 2021

lolcats are still funny
Fallen Rib

Popete posted:

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

Well they have people who paid to be (ab)used as testers. It's a gaming variant of FinDom.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Popete posted:

So apparently they released a Tank Royale mode, where players fight it out in the handful of tanks in game. There is apparently a bug where the tanks drive like they are on ice and a player figured out if you ram into a rock hard enough it fixes the bug and the tanks drive normally.

I genuinely don't think CIG has paid testers.

They have paid testers. They paid now they are testing.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

quote:



OK. This is CIG's problem - they aren't making a game like any other. Those who don't understand, that won't accept it... you see it's a Catch 22. Can't accept, won't accept, can't understand, won't understand. No answer will satisfy because they just won't believe it. When some try to explain it they think you're an idiot.

Implicit in the 'when' is the 'how much'. How much is it different to other games? If that difference is significant it is impossible to compare development time to other games. Squadron 42 is way more full of stuff than anything anyone has ever seen... it doesn't tell you much to say that though.

Implicit in the 'when' is 'how big'. How much bigger is the game in terms of gameplay content and play area than other games? You have to really drill down into the features list to even get an idea, and there are lots of features that aren't on the roadmap or mentioned explicitly in any CIG output since 2015. For example, you know about the simpods, you know that they are used for military training and performance evaluation post mission... but what very few realise is, they are also used for in-game entertainment. Arena Commander is in Squadron 42, and more than what the current Arena Commander has. The Spectrum is in Squadron 42 and it's full of stuff, it's your window into the game universe that has things constantly going on. You might think to yourself, why did they write a story about 2 female characters, engage voice actors, make a 15 minute cinematic video just to sell a ship they don't even mention by name? They didn't. That's not what it is for. Why do they have the writers spending time writing a story about 3 children in 'A gift for Baba'? If the priority is Squadron 42 and getting the game finished?

If you stop and think about why they put arcade machines in the game, why there are simpods in the game, what all that entertainment and lore is about a realisation should occur - it's obviously not the case that you are rushing mission to mission with at best a 3D environment as a virtually un-interactable wait screen until you choose your next mission, like a Call of Duty Infinite Warfare.

There is a line included in the post above:

quote:

Guards can now check your record in SC and SQ42 when implemented, can address your criminal record, rank, and how far you progressed in SQ42, depending on your choices they can salute you, allow/deny access, or hound you like a "mall cop".

You play the same character, if you choose to, in Star Citizen that you created in Squadron 42. The two games are inter-connected, the experience of Squadron 42 will be reflected in your experience of the PU. What you do in Squadron 42 matters to your experience in Star Citizen, and it isn't just a case of unlocking a few in-game items, or how the NPC's address you, it's far reaching.

In both games you have a complete player history log, if you play Squadron 42 your military history log and 'collectibles' goes with you when you retire to the PU. They know you, Squadron 42 exploits are famous, they know what you did. Some AI in Star Citizen may think you are a hero, some may think you are a UEE scumbag sent to oppress them.

The same political structures, social structures and military structures are in both games, the same places, some of the same factions and even some of the same characters. As well as your rank in Squadron 42 there are things you can unlock which give you access to things in the PU those who didn't play Squadron 42 either won't have access to, or will have to work much harder to attain. There is no way to be 'ex-military' in the PU without starting Squadron 42.

quote:

AI features- AI will react to how players complete a mission, such as when you play it safe or when you flex and show off. NPCs and the story will change depending on how you play the game, not just the choices. If you do a mission and eliminate few enemies and play it safe, it will have consequences same as when you speedrun a mission.

He keeps asking how is it that Zyloh could say that he played the missions for Squadron 42? It's because there isn't one linear path, you have objectives, but you choose how you achieve those objectives within the time allotted, so each chapter, mission etc is built as a layer cake, the essentials go in first - minimal blockout, then they come back and add another layer and another, all the while refining and refining. That's why it seems they keep returning to the same things over and over.

The game is about characters, who you interact with, how you interact with them, who you choose to take sides with, who you choose to call friends, you will have choices to make that directly affect your relationships with those characters - it all affects how the game unfolds for you. Yes the main story plot points happen at their time, but how you experience them depends on you. If you simply follow orders to the letter you'll experience the game one way, if you go in squared jawed Roger-Ramjet style you'll experience a different game, if you go sleuthing around James Bond style you'll experience the game another way.

The chapters are blocks of time which are punctuated by key events you can't fast forward, you can't jump back you can only pause time when you exit the game (and probably while in the simpod), they aren't simply a chain of events you trigger when you're ready like other role play action games. Things happen in 'game time', you have time off duty. That's what all the entertainment stuff is about. That's what all the AI work is about, they aren't background activity to make the game seem alive while you compete in your missions - Go kill!, they are the game. They are the reason you're there.

There are optional side-quests and missions, and whether or how you do those affects your progress in the whole campaign and your history log. No two players will have exactly the same game experience of Squadron 42. Once you have made your choice about what you want to do in Squadron 42 that choice is now locked, you can't go back and test all the other choices. If you rush through mission objectives you're going to miss things, things that affect what happens later down the line, and even in the PU. The only way to check all options is to start the whole game again from the very beginning with a brand new character again and again and again, because you are under a time constraint for your objectives you can't do everything.

Zyloh has access to the console, which means he can jump from point to point to test the basics, the skeleton as it were in a virtually greybox environment.

When the OP talks about, this is where you start the game, your home ship when they talk about chapters 1- 5 that's misleading. You don't start Squadron 42 as a UEEN pilot, but you are a UEEN pilot by chapter 4 (the vertical slice mission). Your 'home' changes throughout the game. We already know this from information already given, but you have to pay attention to catch it.

"I see you've applied to the flight academy again" - Why would an existing navy pilot apply to the flight academy?

'Cal is my wingman'. The game is called Squadron 42. Squadron 42 are not based aboard the Stanton. Squadron 42 fly F8A Lightnings, Idrises don't carry F8A's, only Bengals or bigger.

When people ask about 'when' the game will be ready they aren't taking into account that Squadron 42 is not an on rails 'tunnel type' game. It is a game universe where you have objectives that say be here, at a certain time to achieve your objective. It is being built as a living breathing universe, all the characters, social structures, places and infrastructure of that game universe are in Squadron 42. Things you'll be spending time doing don't necessarily relate to 'missions', but they will form a large part of your game experience. The Spectrum for example. It's the internet in the game universe, and it's nothing like the GTA V version of an in-game internet.

Squadron 42 will be the first taste of that living breathing fully fleshed out universe that is coming to Star Citizen, it will completely change how players experience the game universe. How they make decisions, how they go about things, how they make choices, how they inform themselves, it's the why of being there, who they are in a game universe full of totally unique characters all living their lives, with their own story to tell. Your relationship builds with those characters the more time you put into it, that's why they keep saying, there are no background characters in Squadron 42 (it's not strictly true, there are crowds, there are AI you won't be able to delve into). There are more characters to engage with than any 50 AAA games combined.

There is more gameplay in one chapter of Squadron 42 than most AAA games have in a whole game and there is far too much to do in that game universe than you could possibly get through in one playthrough. It's so big, detailed and fully immersive it beggars description, but they won't tell you because to do so gives away too much they don't want spoiled, but it's there. All those lore posts, all those events, sporting calendar, all those holidays, all those characters from Imperator, media personalities, crewmates and on down to baristas and barman... all in that game universe and they've only shown a small sample of it all.

If you ask any of the dev team about the experience of Squadron 42 the word they keep returning to is - first they sigh, look up to the ceiling then they say 'It's massive'... and these guy know more about all games than you can shake a stick at.

quote:

Wrote so much, just to say nothing at all in the end. CIG should hire you for their marketing department.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
Wait, you mean he's not employed by CIG's marketing department??

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016

quote:



OK. This is CIG's problem - they aren't making a game

Finally, he admitted it.

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001
I like how he's going on and on about how if you do a few things in s42 it will change things in SC and how unimaginable difficult this is.

lol, they've been plenty of games with single player and mutiplayer where you can get some reward in one and it carries on to another, and there are plenty of games who have let you take your charcter from the first game and play them in the sequel. Like this isn't some huge never before done achievement. Completed a flying missions in s42, okay lets just set that completed_s42_fly1 value to true and add an random NPC bark "oh wow heard your a great pilot!" and done!

Like if it's included at all I doubt the reactivity would be more than that. Like if done well -a big if- that sort of stuff can be very reward but it's not like this is some crazy never done before thing that requires completely re-engineering everything currently done in gaming.

holtemon
May 2, 2019

Dancing is forbidden
Didn't Chris just write a novella about how their database sucks?

I have a feeling that they won't be able to migrate data from SQ42 to SC lol but maybe they'll surprise us all who knows

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

dr_rat posted:

I like how he's going on and on about how if you do a few things in s42 it will change things in SC and how unimaginable difficult this is.

lol, they've been plenty of games with single player and mutiplayer where you can get some reward in one and it carries on to another, and there are plenty of games who have let you take your charcter from the first game and play them in the sequel. Like this isn't some huge never before done achievement. Completed a flying missions in s42, okay lets just set that completed_s42_fly1 value to true and add an random NPC bark "oh wow heard your a great pilot!" and done!

Like if it's included at all I doubt the reactivity would be more than that. Like if done well -a big if- that sort of stuff can be very reward but it's not like this is some crazy never done before thing that requires completely re-engineering everything currently done in gaming.

You idiot

The AI janitor will recognize you across the hall and ask for your autograph

And then retell your great victory story. Including specific dates and times

It won’t be some canned speech you absolute buffoon

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
Well, it took me over four hours, on and off, but I finally forced all of that indigestible slab of nonsense past my mind-gullet and, after all, I have to say it was easier to follow than most of his novels - perhaps because it's a bit more focused.

However, even I, as a SC neophyte, can note that it's not just every sentence that contains something egregiously specious, but every clause too. An SC scholar could take it apart from beginning to end and throw it out: nope; wrong; wronger; not proven; impossible; not seen any evidence of this assertion; obvious fabrication, basically insulting to the intelligence that anyone is supposed to believe this utter tripe; nooooooooope; irrelevant; literally impossible; this bit will never work and be abandoned, if it's even real (clue: it isn't); written lore is fake depth; this bit has already been abandoned; noooooooooooooooooope; this doesn't matter in any way; who cares; that's basically the least they could do and they will fail at that too; this will collapse in chaos on day one.

What does he get out of this? I mean, I know I'm wasting my time (that's the point), but I get some entertainment from the :psyduck: and the :stonk: and the :catstare:.

Also, someone disbelieving you, since you present no evidence anyway, is not a Catch-22.

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

Is pisscat just an elaborate troll? I feel like I've been had. It's like he's gone too far and the illusion of him actually believing this has been broken.

Unless he really does in which case :wtc:

Time_pants
Jun 25, 2012

Now sauntering to the ring, please welcome the lackadaisical style of the man who is always doing something...

He has been at it far longer than consumer AI text-padding tools. If he's a troll, he's at least an honest one.

Trilobite
Aug 15, 2001

Cutedge posted:

Is pisscat just an elaborate troll? I feel like I've been had. It's like he's gone too far and the illusion of him actually believing this has been broken.

Unless he really does in which case :wtc:

I think he believes a lot of it (because if this whole debacle has demonstrated anything, it's that there are some really, really intense delusions among Star Citizen fans), but there's always a little nagging part of my brain that wants to believe that anyone capable of even barely functioning in society can't believe all of that nonsense, and that there's some desperate corner of his mind that thinks if he can sell the scam even harder than CIG does ("Microsoft would love to buy Arena Commander," lol), then more people will throw money at Star Citizen and someday it will be finished and good and he won't have been so very, very wrong about believing in it.

Because the one thing I genuinely believe he is absolutely consciously lying about is that he's just happy to have been able to help fund such an ambitious "research project" indefinitely, even if it results in abject failure and no games being produced. He's claimed that many, many times, and it's always bracketed with the craziest "facts" about how awesome Star Citizen will be/is/has always been, and it never sounds even remotely sincere. This dude needs CIG's day of reckoning to be postponed indefinitely even more than Chris does.

rooth baybee
Apr 15, 2013

Hey youuuu guysssss!
Derek Smart was right.

Two weeks until fake flaming sandworm of pyro demo that spurs 50 million dollars in FUDster funding.

Will Gary Oldman have a forth remodel?

Sardonik
Jul 1, 2005

if you like my dumb posts, you'll love my dumb youtube channel

Cutedge posted:

Is pisscat just an elaborate troll? I feel like I've been had. It's like he's gone too far and the illusion of him actually believing this has been broken.

Unless he really does in which case :wtc:

In retrospect, his rhetoric is indistinguishable from the meme stock dead-enders on reddit who still earnestly believe that their cancelled BBBYQ shares are going to make them millionaires. I'm surprised we haven't seen more people like him in the community honestly, but I guess it has been a decade.

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Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.
I skimmed over it because no one should read that whole thing. It's kind of like the heydays of QAnon where (insane) people were dissecting everything any public figure said to find the secret hidden messages in their speeches or whatever.
We all ask ourselves "Why did they do X?" or "What possible reason is there for Y?"

The difference is that he answers by imagining extremely complex scenarios where everything is done for a genius reason and that it's all implicitly leading to some amazing features and tech.
Whereas we answer by pointing out the obvious, that it's because Chris Roberts is a gigantic micro-managing moron who has little idea what he's doing except for grifting money so that he can continue the grand tradition of cinematics-driven 90s games with the opportunity to direct film-adjacent things.

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