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queeb posted:Gonna run the starter box on foundry with some friends who are pf2e newbies, and me a newbie to GMing on foundry so this should be fun! hell yeah, good luck! hope it goes well 
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Oct 2, 2023 00:06
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I've wanted to GM kingmaker for a long time and now that it's on foundry, gonna get these guys comfortable in pf2e and then spin that up for the next couple years. They're my usual dnd group so they at least have the background of tabletop stuff
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Oct 2, 2023 00:10
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Kyrosiris posted:My pixie fighter has 16 strength because of the ancestry malus every time u miss an attack by one, I want u to know u deserve it and I want u to think of me. non optimal, filthy
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Oct 2, 2023 00:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I really think you come across as kind of a chore to be around if your reaction was to say "I won't make it unpleasant for you" and then the literal first interaction you had was making sure the npcs were racist as poo poo. Like the issue isn't people playing less common (and I mean that as in "Not usually in the bland D&D base core" and not "Less common in setting" because those are very different things and you seem to care way more about the former") it's just you being boring as poo poo and also seemingly annoying because you decided to not actually discuss what you want and are getting pissy about it here. "I won't make it unpleasant for you but you will have problems with things like basic lodgings" If you're only going to listen to part of what the GM says is going to be a problem you'll run into surprises. The described scenario is precisely what was warned about and seems entirely reasonable.
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Oct 2, 2023 00:34
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I let my players go hog wild because I got tired of the "earn your fun" kind of mindset and I want everyone to be fulfilled with their choices if I can help it. Oh you've decided to play a tree? Here is a halfling who acts like Rocket Raccoon for you to adopt, because I'm picking up what you're putting down, buddy. What does this mean for Golarion? We'll work it out together!
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Oct 2, 2023 00:34
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Azhais posted:"I won't make it unpleasant for you but you will have problems with things like basic lodgings" Except that's not what was said. You don't get to talk out of both sides of your mouth. You can either say "Ok I won't make it unpleasant or difficult but you will run into different reactions... even for things like lodging and basic supplies," or you can say "you will have problems... with lodging." Those statements are saying fundamentally different things. Normal people are going to interpret "run into different reactions" as people being weirded out by you. And immediately preceding that remark is reassuring the player that their choice will not cause major problems. And then the first "reaction" is to cause problems for the player, which is a betrayal of what they'd been told. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 00:56
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sugar free jazz posted:non optimal, filthy She's also using a greatsword instead of a bastard sword 
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Oct 2, 2023 00:57
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Kyrosiris posted:She's also using a greatsword instead of a bastard sword Do you just hate fun? You're a monster and should be hidden from the general gaming populace. I bet you use flying for flavor more than tactically sound opportunities.
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Oct 2, 2023 01:18
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Azhais posted:"I won't make it unpleasant for you but you will have problems with things like basic lodgings" No it's not by a long shot and also it still STILL speaks to that posters incredibly boring imagination that they cannot even conceive of a world where fantasy poo poo is happening without really petty poo poo like that. Like just tell them not to play the poo poo at that point if your only possible scenario you can come up with is "Casual racism against the fantasy race I think is too fantasy but not the other fantasy races." Shut up!
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Oct 2, 2023 01:21
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Azhais posted:"I won't make it unpleasant for you but you will have problems with things like basic lodgings" it is not actually reasonable or open communication with players to assume that "sure yeah there'll be some logistics issues, people here aren't used to being around folk like you, but it won't be like, unpleasant or difficult for you" conveys fair warning that the first idea a GM has for an interesting story involving friction with someone's uncommon ancestry is basic poo poo like: what if an orc...was only allowed to use the Orc Bathroom.... 
Skyelan fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 01:38
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In Age of Ashes book 2 when you go to the Mwangi Expanse and hang out with the Ekujae there's a sidebar that highlights the fact that goblins aren't common in the region and any goblin PCs will probably get a lot of attention and curious questions. I think that's the good way to highlight an "uncommon" ancestry, even though in this case we're talking about one in the core book. That's some good role-playing fodder, unlike getting the fantasy version of being told to drink at another water fountain which is just frustrating and uncomfortable.
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Oct 2, 2023 02:14
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Blockhouse posted:In Age of Ashes book 2 when you go to the Mwangi Expanse and hang out with the Ekujae there's a sidebar that highlights the fact that goblins aren't common in the region and any goblin PCs will probably get a lot of attention and curious questions. I think that's the good way to highlight an "uncommon" ancestry, even though in this case we're talking about one in the core book. That's some good role-playing fodder, unlike getting the fantasy version of being told to drink at another water fountain which is just frustrating and uncomfortable. Yeah, like, my GM had some of the NPCs like the sheriff in Abom Vaults start a tier down in attitude with a lot of us because we were weird, but they're also having other NPCs be like "oh hey you're neat, what's your deal?" and it is a nice balance. I also got to make a random NPC kid's day by telling them I knew the tooth fairy.
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Oct 2, 2023 03:16
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One of my players wanted to be a Skeleton and I told him he would have to use the actual feats and features from a different race because negative energy healing would be a Problem. He ended up playing an Android instead, another player is an Anadi. They both enjoy keeping the fact that they are spider robot people hidden until opportune moments present. I was initially a little irritated that they went straight to the Rare options without even checking but I quickly realized that it was harmless, and it was not in the service of anyone's fun to make them jump through hoops to justify their character fantasy.
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Oct 2, 2023 03:35
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My son's first character was a "wizard made out of spiders" and I got him some art and we made up a backstory about spider-people who were ambulatory spider piles with a hivemind that the fantasy kingdoms had discovered on a remote hidden island and who were just now sending out diplomats, wizards, and all that stuff. He had a good time with it.
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Oct 2, 2023 03:42
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queeb posted:I've wanted to GM kingmaker for a long time and now that it's on foundry, gonna get these guys comfortable in pf2e and then spin that up for the next couple years. They're my usual dnd group so they at least have the background of tabletop stuff Kingmaker was one of those things that got me re-interested in looking at pathfinder and discovering 2e was to my liking overall as a FantasyD20 product. I'm thinking of offering to run it on Foundry to some of the Pathfinder Society people I've meet over the last few months.
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Oct 2, 2023 05:20
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kingmaker looks real good. i'm very excited to make it my group's intro to foundry / pf2e / etc.
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Oct 2, 2023 05:28
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Wanted to ask for some character build advice. I have a Fighter with wrestler dedication, fights with a bladed gauntlet and shield, and mostly approaches combat as a team defender- knocking enemies away from back line PCs, jumping between threats, and trying to grapple/trip/etc enemies as much as just punching them. He's level 3, and right now has snagging strike and sudden charge as their class feats (natural ambition for the 2nd feat). At level 4, it seems like combat grab is a highly rated wrestler move that sort of fills the same niche as snagging strike, although combat grab is a press attack while snagging is not. 1) Is combat grab worth it if I already have snagging strike? 2) If I take combat grab, is it worth it to re-train my level-1 snagging strike feat to something with less functional overlap, like reactive shield? Also maybe just worth asking since I still feel new to the rules: my understanding of reactive shield is it effectively enhances/replaces the default shield block feat I get, doing the exact same thing but I do not have to spend an action every turn readying my shield in order to set meet the trigger requirements? Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 05:30
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Snagging Strike is OK. Off-guard is an important condition, but enemies can just walk away, and you can just walk to flank. Combat grab is great! Grabbed is way better than what Snagging Strike provides. Locking down movement is a big deal. Press can be painful, but Snagging Strike helps mitigate that if you can't flank. Normally, you'd perform a Snagging Strike with your first action and follow it up with a Combat Grab at an effective -2 (with an agile weapon and off-guard). I'd take both, not having to move lets you save an action to raise your shield. Reactive Shield is super niche. I think it sucks for most builds, but I'm sure other people find it useful. It costs your reaction, which means you can't shield block when you use it. You also can't use your reactive strike. It isn't a better shield block. It doesn't let you reduce damage. You are usually better off spending an action raising a shield on your turn so you can spend your reaction doing something better. I'd use it with a fortress shield, unless that's not allowed, I'd have to double check, or if you are higher level and don't want to use a sturdy shield. If your goal is to lock down enemies next to you with a Grab (and therefore probably don't need a Reactive Strike since they aren't going anywhere) you probably need to be able to shield block so you don't go splat. Think of it as a backup for when you just don't have enough actions. It is much worse than just readying your shield but better than not having the +2 AC at all. If you do use Reactive Shield don't be surprised if enemies just walk away from you and hit someone else, since you can no longer punish movement. It could work reasonably well on turns where you move, Snagging Strike, and Combat Grab, I guess. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 06:16
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KPC_Mammon posted:Snagging Strike is OK. Off-guard is an important condition, but enemies can just walk away, and you can just walk to flank. Combat grab is great! Grabbed is way better than what Snagging Strike provides. Locking down movement is a big deal. Press can be painful, but Snagging Strike helps mitigate that if you can't flank. Normally, you'd perform a Snagging Strike with your first action and follow it up with a Combat Grab at an effective -2 (with an agile weapon and off-guard). I'd take both, not having to move lets you save an action to raise your shield. This helps a ton. Thanks!
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Oct 2, 2023 06:25
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The trick to Reactive Shield is that it triggers when you're hit by an attack, rather than when you are targeted by one (which is why Nimble Dodge is so awful). Unless your GM is one of those dicks who refuses to say the actual number of what they rolled against you out loud (which is arguably treating it as Secret when it shouldn't be when that's something meaningfully distinct in the game's rules), then you should only need to use it when it would actually convert a hit into a miss or a crit into merely a hit, because otherwise why bother? Attack of Opportunity (soon to be Reactive Strike I guess) is still better value for your reactions, but sometimes you're in circumstances where you know nobody is going to trigger it. A third attack isn't too bad of an action on a Fighter anyway if it's an agile weapon as -8 MAP on a Fighter is equivalent to only a -6 from a similar non-Fighter martial class, and sometimes squeezing Shield Block in as a reaction is needed regardless because your turn was Stand > Stride > Strike or something. Also if you get to 8th level and pick up Quick Shield Block then you can both Reactive Shield and Shield Block in the same round.
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Oct 2, 2023 06:46
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Blockhouse posted:In Age of Ashes book 2 when you go to the Mwangi Expanse and hang out with the Ekujae there's a sidebar that highlights the fact that goblins aren't common in the region and any goblin PCs will probably get a lot of attention and curious questions. I think that's the good way to highlight an "uncommon" ancestry, even though in this case we're talking about one in the core book. That's some good role-playing fodder, unlike getting the fantasy version of being told to drink at another water fountain which is just frustrating and uncomfortable. I remember in Diablo 2, so it's a Class thing and not Ancestry, but the one shady merchant from Act 1 hated your character if they were a Necromancer. It didn't stop him from selling to you, you just got different dialogue like the classic "I named a wart on my rear end after you, it too bothers me everytime I try to sit down."
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Oct 2, 2023 12:11
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I think having people treat you like poo poo based on your job rather than your race is a way better idea. It means my NPCs can be dickheads to adventures because they're statistically likely to get anyone they meet killed just from proximity. "I don't care that you're purple with horns or that your friend is a robot, the guy outside talks to flowers, or the other one is a reanimated corpse. My proplem is that there are 4 of you and youre here to 'solve the towns problem with kobolds' and that means we're probably going to catch fire. Please leave and only shop at the open air market." Ravus Ursus fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 12:49
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Reactive Shield is a bit of a trap at low levels for the reasons other posters have noted - it comes into its own at level 10 once you can grab Combat Reflexes though. Once it’s no longer competing with Reactive Strike, it becomes much more interesting to be able to use a third action that isn’t raise a shield, at the expense of losing the shield block reaction, while effectively keeping the AC.
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Oct 2, 2023 12:50
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Ravus Ursus posted:I think having people treat you like poo poo based on your job rather than your race is a way better idea. Yep, got a player who is a Dhampir in the Mwangi expanse and I'd never have any NPC be racist towards her- but she's also a prolific necromancer with a horde following her (1e), so she definitely catches flack when the party are in urban environments. It's led to some pretty tense moments of the party sneaking a cart of corpses passed the wall guard, which ended up being really fun for everyone.
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Oct 2, 2023 14:22
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Hell yeah! I'm all for that.
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Oct 2, 2023 14:41
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There's also specific racial hostility in 1e adventure paths like Giantslayer, and characters who are described in text as hating half orcs, but I would be surprised to see much of that in recent 2e books.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:02
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Lamuella posted:There's also specific racial hostility in 1e adventure paths like Giantslayer, and characters who are described in text as hating half orcs, but I would be surprised to see much of that in recent 2e books. There's the bit at the beginning of Gatewalkers where elf PCs have to hide their pointy ears in the no-elves-allowed town. Though that's maybe not quite the same thing you mean.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:06
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Racism is a pretty modern idea, and it's actually a highly ideological and anachronistic notion to assume that villagers are going to discriminate against a stranger on the basis of skin texture or ear shape rather than what saints they pray to or, indeed, nothing at all. Hazing anyone whose character wouldn't fit into the fellowship of the ring ad inaugurated by Elrond is purely an expression of a GM's aesthetic and nostalgic preferences rather than some kind of grimly necessary concession to realism.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:12
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Define pretty modern, because uh, "Others" have been discriminated against/forced to assimilate in various societies, for a pretty large chunk of human history lol. This is not me saying it should be in a game, because fantasy racism is like not something I want to experience in a game and I would bounce if a GM took that path to deal with a character I created. Dexo fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 15:15
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Ferrinus posted:Racism is a pretty modern idea, and it's actually a highly ideological and anachronistic notion to assume that villagers are going to discriminate against a stranger on the basis of skin texture or ear shape rather than what saints they pray to or, indeed, nothing at all. Hazing anyone whose character wouldn't fit into the fellowship of the ring ad inaugurated by Elrond is purely an expression of a GM's aesthetic and nostalgic preferences rather than some kind of grimly necessary concession to realism. Racism may or may not exist in a "generic" fantasy setting, but it pretty clearly exists on Golarion. (This is not a justification for having NPCs be racist to a PC unless the player is OK with that, obviously!)
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Oct 2, 2023 15:18
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My friends and I started a Pathfinder 2E campaign this past weekend. Our first campaign together was Rise of the Runelords in PF1E. Our second campaign was Reign of Winter, but run in D&D5E. And now we've moved back over to Pathfinder now, and it's a homebrew campaign of my own making in the Eberron setting. One of my players chose the Investigator class. I've gone over the class a few times, but I'm pretty bad at being able to eyeball viability with just looking at the numbers and stats available. I can definitely see ways she'll be supremely useful in the exploration phase, but it looks like she'll be a bit behind when it comes to the encounter phase. Anybody run or have a player that's run an Investigator, and can share some insights on how that plays? Also, how strictly does everyone subscribe to the three distinct phases of gameplay PF2E lays out - Encounter, Exploration, and Downtime? Encounter and Downtime is easy enough to grok, but the Exploration phase with all it's specific actions seems odd to me. Regardless, my players seemed to have a lot of fun and we were able to get through a nice big chunk of gameplay and adventure with only a few slowdowns while I looked up rules. I really REALLY like the three action economy, even just now it feels so much more flexible than the traditional "Move/Action" we've been playing with forever.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:19
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Dexo posted:Define pretty modern, because uh, "Others" have been discriminated against/forced to assimilate in various societies, for a pretty large chunk of human history lol. It's beyond the scope of this thread, but I would recommend Theodore Allen's "Invention of the White Race" for all the ways that racism is a specific, intentional and unique production distinct from other forms of jingoism or xenophobia.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:20
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Ferrinus posted:Racism is a pretty modern idea, and it's actually a highly ideological and anachronistic notion to assume that villagers are going to discriminate against a stranger on the basis of skin texture or ear shape rather than what saints they pray to or, indeed, nothing at all. Hazing anyone whose character wouldn't fit into the fellowship of the ring ad inaugurated by Elrond is purely an expression of a GM's aesthetic and nostalgic preferences rather than some kind of grimly necessary concession to realism.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:36
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Lucas Archer posted:My friends and I started a Pathfinder 2E campaign this past weekend. Our first campaign together was Rise of the Runelords in PF1E. Our second campaign was Reign of Winter, but run in D&D5E. And now we've moved back over to Pathfinder now, and it's a homebrew campaign of my own making in the Eberron setting. Investigators are generally a bit below par in combat. The degree to which this is an issue (from somewhat to not really) depends on how the investigator is built. If they have a number of skill actions they can take on rounds where they know they're going to miss (usually not just recall knowledge, they need something else to do, getting a few spells from somewhere or archetype actions from something like Marshall are also solid) and a way to take advantage of guaranteed crits (something like a deadly or fatal weapon, some source of Big Attacks like the Eldritch Archer archetype, Spellstrike from Magus multiclass) they are going to be fine. If they don't have those things... eh... You can help by being generous with Pursue a Lead so that they have frequently have a lead target in combats.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:36
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Dexo posted:Define pretty modern, because uh, "Others" have been discriminated against/forced to assimilate in various societies, for a pretty large chunk of human history lol. As Jon says, it's something that complements and co-creates colonialism and chattel slavery. It's problematic, in the classical sense of potentially leading to problems or mistakes down the line, to cast racial discrimination as a natural exponent of fear of the "other". Who the "other" is and how they should be treated vary dramatically across history! You might well be head over heels for how cool and interesting a foreign merchant is while periodically pausing to whip rocks and piece of trash at the local ugly dude with a speech impediment. There are no doubt placed in Golarion in which elves don't like orcs because of historical wars or whatever. But that's very different from just seeing someone whose skin or eyes or scalp are visibly unusual and concluding from that that they're possessed of an invisible internal essence ineluctably different from your own, and, furthermore, that differences in said essence are propagated through blood and naturally lead to antagonism owing to differences in interest and temperament baked right into the bone marrow. This is all to say that an illiterate peasant seeing a little onion man with a spellbook and being like "a foreigner! get him!" rather than "a foreigner! maybe he'll accept my sidequest to knock my piece of poo poo brother-in-law down a peg" is actually notably strange. There's nothing especially realistic or historically-accurate about the former reaction.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:39
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Lucas Archer posted:My friends and I started a Pathfinder 2E campaign this past weekend. Our first campaign together was Rise of the Runelords in PF1E. Our second campaign was Reign of Winter, but run in D&D5E. And now we've moved back over to Pathfinder now, and it's a homebrew campaign of my own making in the Eberron setting. No, you've got it right, the Investigator is pretty mediocre in combat. I would suggest picking up Wizard Dedication or something so they have a save-targeting cantrip for when they roll terrible on Devise a Strategem, or go into Intimidate/Bon Mot/etc so they can do those + Recall Knowledge when they roll low. Since you're doing homebrew, make sure to keep in mind things for the player to use Pursue a Lead and That's Odd on. quote:Also, how strictly does everyone subscribe to the three distinct phases of gameplay PF2E lays out - Encounter, Exploration, and Downtime? Encounter and Downtime is easy enough to grok, but the Exploration phase with all it's specific actions seems odd to me. Exploration is pretty basic in my experience, everyone generally picks the same action each time, and the actions are basically split between "searching in some way as we move" (Search/Detect Magic/Investigate) and "what will trigger when combat starts" (Avoid Notice/Defend/Scout)
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Oct 2, 2023 15:41
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Dexo posted:Define pretty modern, because uh, "Others" have been discriminated against/forced to assimilate in various societies, for a pretty large chunk of human history lol. "Your character will face discrimination and bigotry based being what they are" can be incredibly triggering and is a bullshit thing to spring on a player without their enthusiastic consent, verisimilitude be damned.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:45
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willing to settle posted:Investigators are generally a bit below par in combat. The degree to which this is an issue (from somewhat to not really) depends on how the investigator is built. If they have a number of skill actions they can take on rounds where they know they're going to miss (usually not just recall knowledge, they need something else to do, getting a few spells from somewhere or archetype actions from something like Marshall are also solid) and a way to take advantage of guaranteed crits (something like a deadly or fatal weapon, some source of Big Attacks like the Eldritch Archer archetype, Spellstrike from Magus multiclass) they are going to be fine. If they don't have those things... eh... Piell posted:No, you've got it right, the Investigator is pretty mediocre in combat. I would suggest picking up Wizard Dedication or something so they have a save-targeting cantrip for when they roll terrible on Devise a Strategem, or go into Intimidate/Bon Mot/etc so they can do those + Recall Knowledge when they roll low. Since you're doing homebrew, make sure to keep in mind things for the player to use Pursue a Lead and That's Odd on. That's all helpful, thanks! The campaign has begun with a vanishing persons mystery, so she's definitely been using her Pursue a Lead ability. She has the That's Odd feature from her methodology, but I kept forgetting it (as did she) as we were playing. I should put a little sticky note or something on each new room so I can remember to incorporate that. She's already thinking about the multi-classing, so I'll suggest that she look into the classes that give her abilities to use when her Devise a Strategem roll is poo poo (and woof were they in our only combat - both times, she rolled less than 5). In our first campaign, she was a ranger that multied into bard to get Arcane Archer prestige and that seriously gimped her compared to the other two players, who were single class fighter and cleric. She does not want to be as behind this time around.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:49
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Lucas Archer posted:That's all helpful, thanks! The campaign has begun with a vanishing persons mystery, so she's definitely been using her Pursue a Lead ability. She has the That's Odd feature from her methodology, but I kept forgetting it (as did she) as we were playing. I should put a little sticky note or something on each new room so I can remember to incorporate that. Giving everyone some access to Free Archetype can really help everyone shore up their weak points and provide good build variance. My current group has two Clerics and they're both very different thanks to choice of Deity and Free Archetype.
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Oct 2, 2023 15:56
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Froghammer posted:This is a really important point, and the touches on the thing that bothered me the most about the post that kicked this whole thing off. Being the victim of systemic oppression should be a thing you opt into or out of in a roleplaying game context, and that decision should 100% be divorced from wanting to be a lizard person or having devil horns. I think it's fair to tie it, but you need to be upfront about that tie and exactly what it means. I also think if it's a dealbreaker, the GM and player should work together to find as satisfying of a compromise as possible.
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