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Hello thread. On the topic of getting deck cuts, I'm intrigued by the new Jurassic World spoiled Indominus Rex, Good Boy. I'm just browsing the EDHREC page and dragging and dropping some stuff to suit my fancy, and am looking for suggestions to focus things in. Ignore the lands: that's a placeholder mostly. How does this Abilitiesaurus win? Is is Voltron; how doe he get big enough? Reanimator; I already have some reanimator-ish decks and would like to steer away from that if I can. Unrelated, but is anyone going to SCG Con Fort Worth? I'm thinking about it but I'd be more inclined to if there was a potential goonmeet.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:25
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WerrWaaa posted:Hello thread. On the topic of getting deck cuts, I'm intrigued by the new Jurassic World spoiled Indominus Rex, Good Boy. I'm just browsing the EDHREC page and dragging and dropping some stuff to suit my fancy, and am looking for suggestions to focus things in. Ignore the lands: that's a placeholder mostly. The deck's private, you need to edit the settings
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Oct 3, 2023 21:26
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Whelp, turns out my group still wants to ban The First Sliver as my commander despite figuring out how to speed up the interaction in cockatrice. The updated reasons being: -"You have no interaction" -"Its too consistent" -"There's nothing we can do." (After 6-8 turns assuming I got my mana) It's apparently just too good, and breaks the game having a deck that's only creatures and no other cards.
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Oct 3, 2023 23:36
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Raenir Salazar posted:Whelp, turns out my group still wants to ban The First Sliver as my commander despite figuring out how to speed up the interaction in cockatrice. Johnny Truant posted:You need to find a different group Edit: to expound on that, the "reasons" they gave you are all their own decks faults that they are projecting onto you Johnny Truant fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 23:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The deck's private, you need to edit the settings Ah, yes, meant to be unlisted. Changed. Thanks.
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Oct 3, 2023 23:56
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For the record this is the deck:code:
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Oct 3, 2023 23:57
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Introduce them to the idea of threat analysis
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Oct 3, 2023 23:58
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Introduce them to the idea of threat analysis But then they might lose?!
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Oct 4, 2023 00:02
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also to boardwipes
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Oct 4, 2023 00:43
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Spanish Manlove posted:also to boardwipes If I have my "All Slivers are Invincible" then they're immune to board wipes.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:46
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Swords the Indestructible granter, then Wrath. They're acting like they're not 3 players who keep losing to the same pile. Tell em to adapt or keep dying, imo. Why aren't they trying to win the game on turn 8-10?
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Oct 4, 2023 01:02
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Papa Was A Video Toaster posted:Swords the Indestructible granter, then Wrath. They're acting like they're not 3 players who keep losing to the same pile. Tell em to adapt or keep dying, imo. But what if I have my all Slivers have Shroud Sliver as well?
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Oct 4, 2023 01:23
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Then all your slivers get exiled with Farewell Or someone plays a Toxic Deluge Or an overloaded Cyclonic Rift There's a lot of answers to indestructible and shroud
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Oct 4, 2023 01:27
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Johnny Truant posted:Then all your slivers get exiled with Farewell I think the reply from them is while they could put answers in their decks, they can't reliably have those answers as often as I can cascade my slivers out?
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Oct 4, 2023 01:39
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I like Hallowed Burial, dodges indestructible and also any graveyard shenanigans. Just puts all creatures on the bottom of their owners' libraries.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:42
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Yeah, the problem here isn't that there are no answers to your deck, the problem here is that your playgroup doesn't want to have to bother adjusting their own decks or play styles to deal with it.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think the reply from them is while they could put answers in their decks, they can't reliably have those answers as often as I can cascade my slivers out? Tell them to build better decks then? Between the 3 of them they can't coordinate to take out the sliver player? Or one of them can't combo off? Or can't counter your slivers? They're always gonna have a reply, some other reason, even after you've bent over backwards to accommodate them.  they want you to play their Magic, not everybody to just play Magic
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Oct 4, 2023 01:48
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The answer is to build a really nasty cascade deck and show them how bad it can really be. Ok maybe that's not the answer but that's how I would handle it.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:05
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they sound like they're really really bad at the game, so ask to borrow their decks and then beat their asses with their own cards and then they can't complain that you built an unfair deck
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Oct 4, 2023 02:23
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So at the risk of sounding Like A MTG Pussy, I can kinda understand the other players' side of this. Slivers is a very snowbally deck; generally the table has to address it early and often with hard removal. If you don't it's pretty much guaranteed to win out against anything that isn't a pre-turn-8 combo or a pre-turn-8 "player removal" aggressive solution. It's kinda like having a Slicer, Hired Muscle deck in the pod: the game is instantly going to become centered around addressing it because it's a hard check on how much removal is at the table. Should your deck/table be able to address a Sliver deck? Yeah, probably, but I can also understand just not wanting to deal with having Sliver games routinely. It doesn't feel fun on either side for an entire table to hard-focus someone down immediately until they die every single game because it's the only way to stop the deck.
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Oct 4, 2023 04:47
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Yeah, but I feel like the solution shouldn't be banning a commander so much as going 'well, alright, now that that game's done with, let's maybe move to another deck for the next one?' and leaving it at that lol, i feel like personal bans should be reserved for commanders that border on antisocially powerful like Obeka or Tergrid or Yuriko 
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Oct 4, 2023 04:51
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Yeah, I get it, too, but the solution should be sitting down and discussing the problem like adults and coming up with a solution that everyone finds equitable, not 3/4 people just unilaterally deciding, "You're not allowed to use them as a commander anymore."
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Oct 4, 2023 04:56
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When I run slivers I find people get annoyed and pissy when I run First Sliver as a commander, but are totally fine with Overlord and First Sliver is in the 99. Even though Overlord lets me tutor Morophon and just dump all the 5-color slivers for free.
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Oct 4, 2023 05:14
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I play in a very casual pod where one guy has a much better sliver deck than that and it only wins MAYBE 20% of its games because we just know who the enemy from the start. Also we have a soft rule of "you win, you change decks" which means if it (or really any deck) snowballs super hard, people can rerack their decks while you change it up. Also my pod essentially doesn't play counter spells because we find it more fun to let someone do their thing instead of saying "no". We just kill them first if they're a problem. E: He does also change up the 5color commander every few matches for his own entertainment. ChiTownEddie fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 4, 2023 05:17
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W.T. Fits posted:Yeah, the problem here isn't that there are no answers to your deck, the problem here is that your playgroup doesn't want to have to bother adjusting their own decks or play styles to deal with it. I have a few friends like that in my playgroup, they like to be left alone will put up poo poo to de-incentivize attacking them and always the quickest to point out that anyone but them is the threat, will throw a quite funny bitch fit when you remove something off their board. Eventually they loving put out a goddamn Karona and make it kind of impossible to interact with and then the rest of the board just kind of makes the face of "I know, I know, I shoulda done something." I always try and build poo poo that has healthy offense and defense, and I usually have to remind them it's not personal. They're DOING well enough that I consider them a threat and am just trying to slow them down, before I want to just outright obliterate them off the table. Thanks again to everyone that shared their opinions on what best to cut from my Esper Knights precon, I really appreciate it. Getting down to the final cards is always such a massive pain when you just want to play EVERYTHING in the toybox and see how it can work.
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Oct 4, 2023 05:43
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For something like Slivers which snowballs hard, it really becomes a case of not just "are you running board wipes?" but the other decks having reached the level where they are running some or all of:
The naive way to build against it otherwise just becomes to stack even more board wipes and interaction which eventually diltues out your deck to the point it does nothing, except be a Draw Go that stops everyone else winning until you run out of cards. Or you go greedy and race it with something that snowballs even harder. I totally understand if people don't want to include a lot of the above though, because the good cards in those categories can get very pricey. It also puts the whole thing into a different power bracket which may not be what they want to play. If they don't want to jack up the power level, or else dilute their decks, and don't think there's a version of their deck where they can race you, it's not surprising they just feel like it's empty competition. But I don't think the power level they need to be at is some wild CEDH thing - it's simply getting everyone to the point there's consistency and back and forth. Play an 8 not a 7. MissMarple fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 4, 2023 10:08
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TheKingslayer posted:The answer is to build a really nasty cascade deck and show them how bad it can really be. Yeah, run a nasty Imoti/Keruga list and watch as you poo poo out even more things even earlier
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Oct 4, 2023 10:35
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WerrWaaa posted:Hello thread. On the topic of getting deck cuts, I'm intrigued by the new Jurassic World spoiled Indominus Rex, Good Boy. I'm just browsing the EDHREC page and dragging and dropping some stuff to suit my fancy, and am looking for suggestions to focus things in. Ignore the lands: that's a placeholder mostly. Ultimately you should build the deck the way you think it's fun to play rather than "optimally". With that in mind, and based around some of the cards you have already, might I suggest a bit of Proliferate/Goldberry "moving counters around" subtheming (the cute cards I'd use with this would be the Myojins)?
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Oct 4, 2023 10:44
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Just deciding that someone can't play the deck they want is toxic as poo poo and you're better off just finding a better playgroup. It's slivers. Yeah, it can build up and become tough to deal with, but the list in question has zero instants, sorceries, artifacts, or enchantments. It's not going to get out of control quickly, and it doesn't really have any way to stop blowouts and will struggle to recover after one. It's not even a matter of running more boardwipes (which it can't really stop either)-- there are so many cards that can shut such a pure aggro strategy off-- Ghostly Prison, Michiko Konda, Solitary Confinement, Propaganda, etc. I'm pretty sure every color has some way to deal with it, especially when the deck in question can't effectively interact with them. Frankly, if your deck pops off on turn 8, that's 8 turns your opponents have had to prepare. That's 7 cards plus 8 draws, minimum, which means your opponents have had AT LEAST 45 cards among them to find a single answer to a pure aggro strategy with no interaction. If they can't handle that, it says a lot about their decks and they should adapt to fix that. Hate the deck out of the group by making it hard for it to succeed and trivial to face, don't just tell someone they can't play what they want. The answer should always be modifying a deck to adapt to the playgroup, not telling someone they can't play what they want because they don't want to put in the effort to adapt. That's the stupid bullshit that has made me not want to play lower power levels anymore and drove me toward cEDH, because I literally wasn't capable of building a bad enough deck that no one would complain about that was still remotely fun to play (I had to deal with people who would whine if you were even playing a COLOR they didn't like). No matter what stupid constraint you put on me, I'm still going to find a way to make a deck capable of doing cool poo poo and winning with it, and forcing me to actively play a bad, unfun deck is going to make me immediately leave. It's a them problem, not a you problem tbh.
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Oct 4, 2023 11:08
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My deck is also crippled by things like Blood Moon, or the "You can't untap non-basic lands" or "you can only untap X permaments this turn" which one of the other players likes to bring out. I suppose in fairness we as a group and I, do ask "Hey can you not?" but your mileage may vary. My assumption is its much worse for your deck to just utterly prevent the other players from playing the game and deliberately stalling an already hour+ long game even longer; while my slivers basically only rarely interacts with your side of the board, as its always random what slivers I get with the cascade commander and merely mostly random with Overlord (which in theory lets me get the cascade commander out ANYWAYS just 1 turn later?).
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Oct 4, 2023 12:16
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Raenir Salazar posted:My deck is also crippled by things like Blood Moon, or the "You can't untap non-basic lands" or "you can only untap X permaments this turn" which one of the other players likes to bring out. The people you play with are lovely, entitled, and bad at magic. Hth. One of the funniest things about commander is that the people who claim they want “fun games” are the least fun to play with. They do that poo poo like whining when you attack them. They don’t want to play “competitively” but they sure care a lot about who wins. Which is weird if it’s for the lols they shouldn’t care if someone wins via combo on turn 5. Most cEDH players care about playing to win but not about actually winning.
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Oct 4, 2023 13:07
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Its just that you can´t win with some people. I had amoment with my playgroup where they kept complaining about oneof my decks in particular, https://archidekt.com/decks/2550549/the_5050. Its my favourite deck of all time and i started building it when i got into EDH, before Zndrsplt and okaun where a thing. But they kept complaining that it was too good, culminating in arguments of "zndrsplt is too good, its a better phyrexian arena and if he could play it in black he would, no hesitation" and "Its forcing me to run more interaction and thats not fun, its meta warping". Some people are just running battlecruiser brain and they cant be saved.
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Oct 4, 2023 13:18
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Anyone who considers “it’s a better Phyrexian Arena” a damning comparison doesn’t have a reasonable understanding of EDH power levels and can be rightly ignored.
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Oct 4, 2023 13:27
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Phyrexian Arena is an awful card nowadays lol
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Oct 4, 2023 13:37
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Fajita Queen posted:Phyrexian Arena is an awful card nowadays lol This pains me to admit.
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Oct 4, 2023 13:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:My assumption is its much worse for your deck to just utterly prevent the other players from playing the game And your fellow players are trying to prevent you from playing the game by bullying you, my fellow goon, because they are whiny fucks Tell them to piss up a rope, seriously. Your deck list has OG dual lands so I'm assuming their decks should also have mana+ rocks, THE FREE loving REMOVAL SPELLS, other fast mana sources, a million other cEDH things to deal with your deck, and they're still whining. They suck as players and they suck as your friends, trying to unilaterally control the game in their favour.
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Oct 4, 2023 14:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:My deck is also crippled by things like Blood Moon, or the "You can't untap non-basic lands" or "you can only untap X permaments this turn" which one of the other players likes to bring out. I mean this without any offense whatsoever, but between your stories in the Magic threads and your stories in the D&D threads, I feel like every gaming group you have is one of the worst gaming groups I've ever heard of.
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Oct 4, 2023 14:55
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disaster pastor posted:I mean this without any offense whatsoever, but between your stories in the Magic threads and your stories in the D&D threads, I feel like every gaming group you have is one of the worst gaming groups I've ever heard of. Doing the rest of the community a service by corralling all these people, clearly.
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Oct 4, 2023 14:59
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I feel like pretty much any deck running blue should have a couple counterspells. Even if they're mostly just to protect your threat from a board wipe or something, you can always use your 1 Negate to counter a game-winning spell by another player and save everyone. It's a fun puzzle to think about if you can let something resolve to hold on to your limited counterspells to protect your wincon later.
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Oct 4, 2023 15:24
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WerrWaaa posted:Hello thread. On the topic of getting deck cuts, I'm intrigued by the new Jurassic World spoiled Indominus Rex, Good Boy. I'm just browsing the EDHREC page and dragging and dropping some stuff to suit my fancy, and am looking for suggestions to focus things in. Ignore the lands: that's a placeholder mostly. A interesting idea. Only problem is that you have a lot of cards that are only good discarded to the commander. No one ever wants to cast Bassara Tower Archer or Venomthrope. Also I'm not sure if Darksteel Colossus works the way you want.
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Oct 4, 2023 15:24
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