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Pwnstar posted:I heard this storyline was based on Final Fantasy Tactics and I totally played that but I had no idea wtf all this backstory was. This was when I learned that Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is not the name of the Game Boy Advance port of Final Fantasy Tactics but a completely different game with a different story. This raid's tribute to FFT Advance is that the leading boy is an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:04
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Pwnstar posted:I heard this storyline was based on Final Fantasy Tactics and I totally played that but I had no idea wtf all this backstory was. This was when I learned that Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is not the name of the Game Boy Advance port of Final Fantasy Tactics but a completely different game with a different story. I've known other folks who got confused by that. I liked TA well enough (and TA2 was my "curl up in bed for way too long just doing auctions" game for a while) but it's quite a different tone from Tactics.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:05
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Feldegast42 posted:I like Matsuno's writing and storytelling in basically every game except this one, unfortunately. The thing that I've discovered with my feelings towards Matsuno is "more is not better." I loving love Final Fantasy Tactics. Even with it's - lets call it interesting - translation. It wasn't my first FF game, but what it did in the story blew teenage Mord's mind. FF12, on the other hand, I liked far less. The story is... ehhhhhh.... and the characters... well, I could do without Vaan or Penelo (as most would agree). As for Matsuno's work in FFXIV, it's the only time where I've ever though "you know... cutscene skippers might have a point." I feel like Matsuno works best when he's forced to be constrained in his writing. If you give him endless room to write, he'll write endlessly - and that isn't for the better. Why say something in two sentences when you can spend five hundred paragraphs saying the same thing? That being said, these are still my favorite raids. It's amusing that the best raids have the (imho) worst writing. FF8 is a better game and a better story than FF7 and yes, I will die on this hill.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:08
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Craptacular! posted:
Ff2 and 6 and 7 already existed by the time tactics did. The franchise was already known for getting weird with each game.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:15
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i never played Tactics and by the time this storyline threw in the 8th or so new Proper Noun that meant nothing to me i was completely checked out. this is the first and only time in FFXIV i've skipped cutscenes because i just did not care what the story was (also a group was waiting on me to unlock the raids) reading the story back now in the LP they really just throw name after name at you with abandon. am i expected to remember any of this stuff about Delita or whoever? that we never actually meet?
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Oct 5, 2023 19:23
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Staggy posted:So, this is a direct reference to the airship of the same name in FFIX, which features heavily in the opening cinematic and forms the arena for much of the opening section of the game. Like here, the Prima Vista in FFIX is a travelling theatre with a hidden mission.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:24
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Ff2 and 6 and 7 already existed by the time tactics did. The franchise was already known for getting weird with each game. I feel like your first sentence just repeats that I had said, and the second arrives at the opposite conlcusion. 4 (marketed as 2) and 6 (as 3) and 7 were most Americans only understanding of the franchise, and that assumes you got in early since 7 brought in a ton of new people. But even having experienced 4 and 6 previously, I wouldn't say the franchise was "already known for getting weird". 4/6/7 share a pretty common lineage. The gameplay black sheep of that era was 5 and we were passed over for it, so if anything I would say that we were far less aware of the weirdness than Japan. And even 5 is still a FIGHT/MAGIC/ITEM/RUN kind of game. Again, Square did break out of that gameplay paradigm on Nintendo platforms, but Chrono/Mana/Evermore didn't use the FF title. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Oct 5, 2023 |
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Oct 5, 2023 19:24
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Craptacular! posted:I feel like your first sentence just repeats that I had said, and the second arrives at the opposite conlcusion. 4 (marketed as 2) and 6 (as 3) and 7 were most Americans only understanding of the franchise, and that assumes you got in early since 7 brought in a ton of new people. But even having experienced 4 and 6 previously, I wouldn't say the franchise was "already known for getting weird". 4/6/7 share a pretty common lineage. The gameplay black sheep of that era was 5 and we were passed over for it, so if anything I would say that we were less aware of the weirdness than Japan. Jumping from 1 to 4 to 6 to 7 is plenty of weird changes. It is a strange take on tactics for being too weird when it came out after 7s psycho thriller dying deiselpunk story. It's a much stranger take to still hold against the game today when you have a greater understanding of the franchise even as it was back then.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:28
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I have no idea how someone could see Tactics as weird, but 7 as "normal." Tactics is more "traditional fantasy" than both 6 and 7. FFT is far closer to FF1 than FF7 is.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:32
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Craptacular! posted:I think the only thing 8 did that was informed by 7 was trying to make Seifer look like a potential Sephiroth followup. And of course they subverted hard on that. Yeah, Seifer and Squall are set up to look like a Cloud/Sephiroth rivalry, but then you find out that Seifer is just some dumbass who based his life goal around a movie he didn't even understand the plot of and he's treated like a chump every time you fight him. Seifer wishes he could be Sephiroth or, perhaps more accurately, Beatrix, but he's just a mid-boss at the end of the day. GilliamYaeger posted:Honestly, ever since I played through Punishing Gray Raven's first permanent roguelike mode - which is modelled after a play where one of the bosses is literally a prop dragon held up by wires with a practical effects phase change cutscene - I've yearned for a raid series inspired by FF6 and FF9 where you're acting in a series of three plays. Just imagine a boss with music inspired by Jake Kaufman & Tommy Pedrini's The Impresario. I kind of wonder how you could do a Final Fantasy IX themed Raid because most enemies from that game are references to other games. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 5, 2023 |
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Oct 5, 2023 19:47
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6-7-8 all have the main character walk around the world talking and opening boxes, then all your people stand in a line doing the things in a separate battle screen for fights. FFT is... a tactics game so it's more different for sure. But also it didn't get a mainline FF number either so it's weird to dock points for it being a different gameBlueberry Pancakes posted:I kind of wonder how you could do a Final Fantasy IX themed Raid because most enemies from that game are references to other games. A whole ff9 raid would be a stretch but they did cut the (Shadowbringers spoiler) dungeon that was going to happen in Eulmore where I'm sure the lady Zorn and Thorn clowns would've shown up. GloomMouse fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Oct 5, 2023 |
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Oct 5, 2023 19:51
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People have mentioned the Indiana Jones thing a couple times, and I think there's really something to having that sense of adventure and mystery as a throughline in FF14 alliance raids. Crystal Tower and the NOAH scholars, Mhachi and the Sky Pirates, and now Rabanastre/Ivalice and the Majestic Theatre Company are all heavy with a sense of history and lore, but the raids themselves have a certain sense of whimsy and fun. Kheris just went down a slip-and-slide through a sunken city!
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Oct 5, 2023 20:12
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By the way, thanks to whoever pointed out that the guys with the Chocobos were supposed to be pig-like. It was obvious in hindsight, I just got tricked by their tails since I never saw them too closely.
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Oct 5, 2023 20:13
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I actually rather like the plot of the Ivalice raids for reasons that will be more easily discussed later, but I also have a huge tolerance for world building exposition. I will observe that with the Stormblood 8 and 24 man raids we get an overall theme of the examination of in universe fiction and mythology, which I like.
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Oct 5, 2023 20:15
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I was very eh on this 24 man series but i also had my first fresh 24 man content be dun scaith on release day, which may have affected that perception looking back.
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Oct 5, 2023 21:05
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I love FFT and that they brought on a talented, respected and beloved creator to oversee this raid series. But you still need to be willing to give him a god drat editor. The Ivalice raid story is criminally over-indulgent. Even after the worst of it has been removed and demoted to side-quest. I hope Sang will play that and know this poo poo used to be mandatory. But it's all worth it for the actual raids, which are still my favourites in the whole game.
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Oct 5, 2023 21:31
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Ivalice rules
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Oct 5, 2023 21:34
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They removed some of the side quests they had on the airship during the Ivalice raid if I remember correctly.
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Oct 5, 2023 21:53
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OhFunny posted:They removed some of the side quests they had on the airship during the Ivalice raid if I remember correctly. No side quests appeared at any point during the Ivalice series. That's not to say there weren't any stories playing out among the extras though
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Oct 5, 2023 22:22
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GloomMouse posted:A whole ff9 raid would be a stretch but they did cut the (Shadowbringers spoiler) I'll have more to say about this in the relevant Let's Play, don't worry. Sanguinia posted:By the way, thanks to whoever pointed out that the guys with the Chocobos were supposed to be pig-like. It was obvious in hindsight, I just got tricked by their tails since I never saw them too closely. No worries; you don't really get a good look at them in XIV! On the topic of Ivalice races, though, Bangaa and Seeq are playable in some of the Tactics side games in addition to Humes, Moogles, Viera, and a few other races. One of which are the Nu Mou, which are these dog-like people that are typically wizards.  And the other are Gria, which seem to be the precursor to Au Ra, though I'm not 100% sure there's a direct correlation there. They're an all female race, as far as we know, though I suppose it's possible that the males are just hiding offscreen like the male Viera or female Garif. Ivalice really loves its one gender races... 
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Oct 5, 2023 22:23
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The Ivalice Alliance races reminds me that a joke they had made back in the pre-Heavensward FanFests and then brought back again before announcing Viera as a playable race was this.
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Oct 5, 2023 22:30
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That joke just makes me sad because the Bangaa are my actual favorite FFTA/FF12 race and I would have loved it if they were playable instead of viera. or you know. some bizarre combination of the two.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:00
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Craptacular! posted:Oh and of course the aforementioned summon animations where things get Super Nova length. At least FF8 gave the player something to do that had tangible effects (Boost) during those summons. Can safely say I didn't really mind FF8's final summon being Super Nova/KotR length when I could effortlessly Boost it to 250% damage... and that's one of the 2 single-hit attacks you have that can break the damage barrier. (...I think its 2. Final Summon and Quistis's Ultimate Limit....)
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Oct 5, 2023 23:01
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Ran Rannerson posted:That joke just makes me sad because the Bangaa are my actual favorite FFTA/FF12 race and I would have loved it if they were playable instead of viera. or you know. some bizarre combination of the two.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:04
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DrakePegasus posted:I’ve got nothing bad to say about the raid that let me kill Argath every week. That was about the first time I was current on content, actually. Joined April 4th 2017 (during 3.56), got to experience the agony of Cleric Stance up through L50 before patch 4.0 rightfully shot it in the head, stuffed around in HW during 4.0 getting every job to 60 before starting Stormblood, (did the L70 WHM quest in L60 gear right at the start because it all happens in zone 1), worked through 4.0 and did 4.1, Rabanastre and Deltascape all about two days before 4.2 released. So I got to experience Phantom Train as my first fully-current-on-content fight. 
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Oct 6, 2023 00:35
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Ivalice is my least favorite raid series mechanically, not even because of the bosses that people typically feel are hard, I like those just fine, it's that each tier has some mechanic or boss that is very annoying with high latency. In this case it would be gnawing dread, which I have never managed to execute correctly. There's also a bunch of forced downtime, and to be fair that kind of stuff is sprinkled around in all raids series, but it's another thing that makes it worse when I already don't like the fight.
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Oct 6, 2023 02:42
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I enjoy the hell out of Ivalice. I have very fond memories of FFT, never played any of the other games, so there was a good bit of nostalgia involved, but mostly I really like the format:dyslexicfaser posted:People have mentioned the Indiana Jones thing a couple times, and I think there's really something to having that sense of adventure and mystery as a throughline in FF14 alliance raids. Ivalice I feel is the raid series that best nails what I want alliance raids to be - grand adventures to forgotten and/or strange locales. I like the Crystal Tower storyline a decent amount, but I think the format really nails it when it feels like you're part of an expedition force exploring somewhere. We already have trials series, we already have normal raids, we're good on just normal standard boss rushes. I like it when an alliance raid sells the atmosphere hard, and Ivalice really nailed that all the way through. Also, the boss fights are super fun! Stormblood is where FFXIV really started to layer spectacle onto their fights and Ivalice is them showing off what they've learned. Argath being voiced just adds so much of that spectacle - and I use the word positively! - to the fight. It rules. The over-wordiness I don't think bothered me too much at the time (not nearly as much as the 30+ minute queues), but I have a high tolerance for words.
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Oct 6, 2023 03:54
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GilliamYaeger posted:Honestly, I'd kinda prefer to get Bangaa instead of Hrothgar. It is kinda weird we have two cat races.
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Oct 6, 2023 04:14
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:It is kinda weird we have two cat races. Lion People are cooler than cat-eared humans though? (Honestly I actually think all the races are fine and FFXIV's particular dev style means that excessively going away from traditional bipedal designs would not have worked). Bangaa would not have been anything like what they look like in the Ivalice raids if they were made a player race because it would nearly double the dev time for armour sets (which is already slow and lengthy). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 04:17
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Yeah, of the preexisting "monster" options we've seen tot his point the most likely to get through the player character barrier are the Lupin, which iirc just reuse Hyur models for their body base, and they probably didn't want to rework them to not be functionally wearing fursuit heads like they are now. Even Hroth just use a tweaked version of an existing build (Roegadudes) for ease of dev. While I feel for anyone who saw the more monstrous concept art of Au Ra and male Viera and wished that made it in, I'm not, like, surprised they went with what they did.
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Oct 6, 2023 04:26
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As a comparison, WoW has some really monstrous deviations in physical body and unlike FFXIV doesn't model the outfits for each "body type" but instead just let the game stretch and squish as needed whilst making sure everything looks good on humans and orcs (most of the time). FFXIV actually does a lot of tweaking to make things look good on Roegadyn/Highlander bodies, Lalafel bodies, and Midlander (more or less everything else) bodies. With some extra work done, sometimes, for Miq'ote/Viera (ears, tails for the former), Hrothgar, Elezen and Au'Ra.
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Oct 6, 2023 04:35
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They haven't bothered modeling the Miqo'te or Elezen ears into new hats for a while now
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Oct 6, 2023 04:44
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FuturePastNow posted:They haven't bothered modeling the Miqo'te or Elezen ears into new hats for a while now Still do it for Au Ra Horns though. Also I suspect they're not doing it as much because they're updating all the gear visuals anyway at some point and know it now. As part of a full game graphical overhaul starting in 7.0. So why do work on versions of the gear that are extremely transitory at best.
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Oct 6, 2023 04:57
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No, horns have pretty much always just clipped through without any extra work put in to cut holes in the hat. Most ear gloves and stuff like that was from ARR. Ears are now mostly the same as horns in that they just clip through, except for some pieces where they get cut off for cats like the baseball cap I think.
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Oct 6, 2023 04:59
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GilliamYaeger posted:Honestly, I'd kinda prefer to get Bangaa instead of Hrothgar. as a hrothgar player i also would've preferred bangaa, it would've been nice for the monster race to be more monstrous. plus then every time zenos etc. is like ah so you have come to snap at me, beast, i would picture a komodo dragon or crocodile and that would be fun.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:03
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Valentin posted:as a hrothgar player i also would've preferred bangaa, it would've been nice for the monster race to be more monstrous. plus then every time zenos etc. is like ah so you have come to snap at me, beast, i would picture a komodo dragon or crocodile and that would be fun. The problem is the lack of monstrousness in Hrothgar isn't because they're Hrothgar and not Bangaa, it's that the actual game itself wouldn't really support a monstrous looking player character (armour wise). People already complain how often Hrothgar (and Viera) just don't get to visually wear some armour pieces. It'd be so much worse with a full monster Bangaa, and they'd likely have just made a less monstrous design for them than do it the other way. Also I did remember one example of them doing fun stuff for specific races. The headphone item you can purchase for real world money has different positioning per race that actually makes sense. Mi'qote and Viera have them worn with the headphone parts against their actual ear holes and the bit that normally rests over the head is down around the back of their head instead for example. Edit: Also it's still really funny to me, personally, with all the "beast tribes" stuff in ARR. From a lore perspective the Hrothgar would not really get called Beast Tribe, their culture is a well established monarchy that trades and invents and such which Ul'Dah would be able to make partnerships with. But the Viera absolutely would because they murder anyone attempting to enter the forests (much more seriously so than Gridania even) and would basically completely deny the resources Ul'dah desires. Which gathering resources is in fact where the Beast Tribe name comes from in Eorzea as it was how Ul'dah devalued goblins as okay to drive from mineral rich lands that Ul'dah wanted to exploit. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 05:08
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Right now they make 5 versions of every armor piece (and every glam that isn't gender-locked). Those 5 variants get stretched or shrunk to fit everyone. I'm sure not making a race that requires a new body type was a very firm requirement for them. Edit: or was it 4? I'm tired
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Oct 6, 2023 05:13
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Seven, innit? Caster, healer, tank, maiming, aiming, striking and rogue.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:16
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FuturePastNow posted:Right now they make 5 versions of every armor piece (and every glam that isn't gender-locked). Those 5 variants get stretched or shrunk to fit everyone. I'm sure not making a race that requires a new body type was a very firm requirement for them. It's Lalafel (both genders use the same version of armour except for gender variation stuff), Midlander Male (most males), Midlander female (most females) Roedgadyn male (Ported to Hrothgar, also highlander dudes) and maybe something for Elezen male/au ra male or roegadyn female but I do not specifically remember for those. I'm pretty sure Roe female is it's own set of options?
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Oct 6, 2023 05:18
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dyslexicfaser posted:Seven, innit? they're talking about variants for different genders/races
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Oct 6, 2023 05:50
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