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Baddog posted:This can't be good, even if it's nominally filtered? Enclosed tight crawlspace would get greasy and nasty as hell. It's not good at all. I've seen some that had been venting to crawlspaces for decades and it's an absolute mess down there. It also attracts insects and rodents as a bonus.
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Oct 5, 2023 00:05
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Motronic posted:It's not good at all. I've seen some that had been venting to crawlspaces for decades and it's an absolute mess down there. It also attracts insects and rodents as a bonus. Who doesn’t love waste grease flavored rats? They’ve got the John Spartan seal of approval.
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Oct 5, 2023 00:07
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Baddog posted:This can't be good, even if it's nominally filtered? Enclosed tight crawlspace would get greasy and nasty as hell. Longevity usually isn’t a concern for flips sadly :/
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Oct 5, 2023 00:20
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love a crawl space full of rancid grease. Bet those places smell really pleasant on hot summer days. Ventilation is really not a place where you want to get cheeky and minimize for appearances. I find it hard to believe a device vacuuming next to the range is pulling nearly enough air to stop fumes from going upwards anyway.
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Oct 5, 2023 00:37
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My house had one that vented through the crawl space and outside. I doubt it vents into the crawl space but depends up your frank or whoever. Mine was useless because physics.
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Oct 5, 2023 01:23
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Vent UP, stupid!
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Oct 5, 2023 01:51
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We have an intake vent right down the middle of the (electric) range. It vents down and out through a nearby exterior wall of the kitchen into the backyard. Seems to do its job and no issues with smell or anything from what I can tell. Cleaning the intake area on the range sucks rear end though.
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Oct 5, 2023 19:32
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Luckily, downdrafts don't even work, so there's minimal concern of filling your crawl space with fumes and grease
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Oct 5, 2023 19:43
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They do kind of work when run on high, but at the cost of sending unnecessarily large amounts of conditioned air outside.
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Oct 5, 2023 20:32
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Shifty Pony posted:They do kind of work when run on high, but at the cost of sending unnecessarily large amounts of conditioned air outside. If the pan is shallow enough, if the volume to be removed is low enough...... These are for display kitchens, not for people who routinely cook.
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Oct 5, 2023 20:36
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It's not like it's an impossible engineering challenge to suck fumes downward. There are downdraft kilns for ceramics that pull thousands of CFMs, it's just a matter of how much you wanna spend, how much noise you can tolerate, and how much maintenance you can handle.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:09
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Motronic posted:It's not good at all. I've seen some that had been venting to crawlspaces for decades and it's an absolute mess down there. It also attracts insects and rodents as a bonus. I’m no fire marshal or home inspector but this seems like it would also be a crazy fire hazard. Like, when I’m camping and want to start a fire fast I throw kindling and accelerant at the base of the fire. Basically soaking the structure under your house in a layer of cooking grease feels like the sort of thing that is very not good from a “I don’t want to burn down my house” standpoint.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:12
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Leperflesh posted:It's not like it's an impossible engineering challenge to suck fumes downward. I bolded the #1 problem. Maintenance is absolutely another, but because they simply don't work as they currently exist for any serious cooking and won't at any reasonable db level it's a hard sell to try to "fix" this when it's already a solved problem with a hood. We're not just talking about smoke and/or odors here. The amount of grease in the filter plates of my big boy full depth hood after doing something like searing meat is just.......amazing. And all I've got to do is throw them in the dishwasher. Almost none of that is going to make it into a downdraft system - at least not any I've seen. So the littler that does is a maintenance nightmare and the rest is even worse. Because it's all over your ceiling, floor, cabinets, HVAC system, etc.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:15
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lol yeah I would never have one in my home, I'm just kinda responding to the "downdraft, that's impossible, fumes must go up" kinda posts upthread. I bet if you had a weird commercial kitchen situation where you needed to go down, you'd just do it with some big expenses and cope with the jet engine noise.
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Oct 5, 2023 23:16
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Leperflesh posted:lol yeah I would never have one in my home, I'm just kinda responding to the "downdraft, that's impossible, fumes must go up" kinda posts upthread. I bet if you had a weird commercial kitchen situation where you needed to go down, you'd just do it with some big expenses and cope with the jet engine noise. I mean.....I guess, but then you're need a shitload of makup air. I don't think this is a problem of "engineers haven't come up with the solution". I think it's a "physics says lol no".
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Oct 5, 2023 23:22
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Baddog posted:It's not public, it's a private organization/club. But a lot of them are hurting, membership dwindling, and are opening up a bit. I've got a friend who says he drinks in his local one all the time and is a big fan of the very cheap beers. Might be worth it to stick your head in, say you live across the street and are curious, make some conversation. You couldn't be a member, but they might say it's cool to come have a drink with them. The absolute cheapest night I don't really remember was at a Royal Canadian Legion hall (Canada's VFW) where going in mistaking it for the restaurant we were looking for turned into drinking dollar pints of unexpectedly good beer until last call with vets who knew how to party and were very excited some new people showed up
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Oct 6, 2023 01:50
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So I'm renting and expect to continue to do so for at least the next five years, but want to start thinking about buying, 5-10 years out. Assuming my income stays stable and I don't suddenly turn completely profligate, I can expect to continue socking away a decent nest egg without otherwise impacting my retirement plans. I'm currently at a spot where I theoretically have the savings for a 20% downpayment for a place worth ~4x my gross income, so I'm curious what the general thinking is on disregarding the various rules of thumb on affordability in order to grab someplace with a higher monthly cost by relying on savings as a fallback if my income isn't as stable as I hope over the lifetime of the mortgage. So, for example, say the rule of thumb puts me at an upper bound of $400k. If I wanted to spring for $500k and eat the higher monthly expense, what kind of warchest do I need to make this not too high a risk to bear? Ultimately, I obviously just need to do the math and figure out my risk tolerance, but I guess I'm looking for input on things that I might need to factor into my thinking that I'm not aware of. I think I've got a handle on the obvious things which could make my assessment too rosy (closing fees; insurance; HOA dues; property tax; misc maintenance costs; hell, even furniture to upgrade from my 800sqft apartment to something with a little more space), but I'm curious what else there might be to consider. Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 08:48
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You may have trouble getting approved for a mortgage if the bank doesn't believe you have the income to afford the house unless you spend a decent chunk of your savings on the down payment to lower the overall amount financed. At the end of the day the bank just wants to be convinced they will get their money back from you (and also learned some expensive lessons about approving everyone ever and assuming they'll be able to pay.) Worst case if you don't manage to sock enough money away and you don't eventually grow to an income level to handle the mortgage it could turn out like a subprime ARM and you won't be able to afford your house. It may leave you vulnerable to economic downturns. I personally live by a rule of "only buy what you can afford with the money you make now" but I am paranoid and refuse to ever risk losing my home.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:40
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Cugel the Clever posted:So I'm renting and expect to continue to do so for at least the next five years, but want to start thinking about buying, 5-10 years out. Assuming my income stays stable and I don't suddenly turn completely profligate, I can expect to continue socking away a decent nest egg without otherwise impacting my retirement plans. I'm currently at a spot where I theoretically have the savings for a 20% downpayment for a place worth ~4x my gross income, so I'm curious what the general thinking is on disregarding the various rules of thumb on affordability in order to grab someplace with a higher monthly cost by relying on savings as a fallback if my income isn't as stable as I hope over the lifetime of the mortgage. A lot of this stuff is going to be hyper-local, and very specific to the place you’re buying. You could start by looking up closing costs in your area. For maintenance, the general guideline is 1-2% of home value per year, but there’s always the chance of a catastrophic issue in the first few years. Realistically though, a lot can change in 5-10 years. Pricing, taxes, fees, legislation impacting closing costs and mortgage rates, etc etc. What rule of thumb are you talking about? Home value being 4x gross isn’t a super typical barometer. The typical barometer is max 30% of monthly income on monthly housing costs. Even these kinds of rules of thumb could change in 5-10 years. With the purchase that far out, the only thing you really should be doing is building your savings. You can have a 50% down payment if you want to. Higher down payment = lower monthly cost which = lower monthly payment. Plus the bonus of paying less overall interest, which at current rates could be saving you 100’s of thousands of $. Without raising your income, this is the way to safely stretch your buying power upwards. At the end of the day from a month to month financial perspective, your monthly payment matters quite a lot, and the on paper value of the home means almost nothing.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:40
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Additionally what you'll need as a backstop for savings will depend greatly upon your career and industry. You will want a larger fund if you are in a cyclical field (like oil and gas) or have a job where significant amounts of your income are commission (like sales).
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Oct 6, 2023 13:59
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Cugel the Clever posted:So I'm renting and expect to continue to do so for at least the next five years, but want to start thinking about buying, 5-10 years out. Assuming my income stays stable and I don't suddenly turn completely profligate, I can expect to continue socking away a decent nest egg without otherwise impacting my retirement plans. I'm currently at a spot where I theoretically have the savings for a 20% downpayment for a place worth ~4x my gross income, so I'm curious what the general thinking is on disregarding the various rules of thumb on affordability in order to grab someplace with a higher monthly cost by relying on savings as a fallback if my income isn't as stable as I hope over the lifetime of the mortgage. These rules of thumb aren't about how much house you can afford so much as how much mortgage you can service. If you want to spend $100k more than what you "should" don't try to sock away money to buffer an emergency fund: spend the next 5 years saving another $100k to put down to make your loan amount the same as a $400k house.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:59
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Got the signed offer letter, rates and closing fees were going crazy so I figured "I'm a smart person, I'll let things settle before locking in." Now I am in the stretch where I need to lock and I timed it PERFECTLY to the 23 year high water mark. I AM a smart person. Pilfered Pallbearers posted:What rule of thumb are you talking about? Home value being 4x gross isn’t a super typical barometer. The typical barometer is max 30% of monthly income on monthly housing costs. Even these kinds of rules of thumb could change in 5-10 years. And the 30% really depends. 30% means a lot more to someone making 75k a year vs someone who is making 150k a year where there is more "non-essentials" in the budget that can be axed if needbe. Generally good advice here though, break it down monthly. Don't overextend. Don't forget maintenance.
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Oct 6, 2023 16:08
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and don't try to make it work by opting for an ARM
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Oct 6, 2023 18:46
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I’m not sure how many people actually do it but calculating 30% off net vs gross income is vastly different. Adjust your lifestyle and purchasing power accordingly.
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Oct 6, 2023 18:50
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Tristesse posted:You may have trouble getting approved for a mortgage if the bank doesn't believe you have the income to afford the house unless you spend a decent chunk of your savings on the down payment to lower the overall amount financed. At the end of the day the bank just wants to be convinced they will get their money back from you (and also learned some expensive lessons about approving everyone ever and assuming they'll be able to pay.) If you are trying to get a loan for more than the bank is willing to give you, you are loving up. They offered us, like, 60% more than we wound up taking. There is no way in gently caress we could have afforded it, I don't know what kind of crazy loving math they use.
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Oct 6, 2023 18:53
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They offered me up to $1.2 million (loan amount). My budget was nearly half.
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Oct 6, 2023 18:55
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When I first started looking for a house, the bank pre-approved me for 10x my salary. I ended up buying a house that was 1.5x.
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Oct 6, 2023 19:00
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Leperflesh posted:and don't try to make it work by opting for an ARM Oh man, this reminds me a guy I work with bought a house he probably shouldn't have with a 7/7 ARM. He's ok for like 5 1/2 more years, but I wouldn't want to be in that position. (Yes I typed that right, it's a product our credit union has (we both bank at the same CU)) It only adjust every 7 years skipdogg fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 19:27
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Cugel the Clever posted:So I'm renting and expect to continue to do so for at least the next five years, but want to start thinking about buying, 5-10 years out. *snip* This is a really good website and generally accurate. We've used it to do a lot of financial modeling and the numbers when we signed came out very very close to what the calculator showed us. https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/ I plugged in 400k house (about average if you're not near a major urban area?) at 6.7%, $100/mo HOA, 1.1% annual property tax, PMI, and 10% down payment. It comes out as $3,023.00/mo $40,000 down payment Plan on another $12,000-16,000 in closing costs and another $5k in random "I need to fix this so the house doesn't burn down/flood" fixes in the first year. So like, $50,000 in the bank $3100/mo mortgage + property tax payment You should be making $9300/mo after taxes or about ~$130k pre tax household income to afford that house. Then tack on your 6 month financial cushion For 500k (probably what that house will cost in 5 years) 500k house @ 5.2%, $125 HOA, 1.1% property tax, PMI, 10% (NOTE: this has a lower interest rate of 5.2%, i'm making a BIG assumption that rates will be lower in 5 years) $3,325.17/mo payment $50,000 down payment So like, $70,000 in the bank $3350/mo mortgage + property tax payment You should be making $10050/mo after taxes or about ~$138k pre tax household income to afford that house. Then tack on your 6 month financial cushion of course you can game this buy taking an ARM loan which will get you a lower monthly payment, and gamble that rates will be lower in 5 years, but you won't find many (or any?) people in this thread that suggest this. Our interest only ARM HELOC went from $499/mo to over $1100 currently  but it got us into the house and we thankfully can afford to eat that (although we're agressively paying down the principle now) anyways buyer beware ARM can and likely will gently caress you, they wouldn't offer them if they didn't plan on making money from them
Hadlock fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 20:11
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Hadlock posted:I plugged in 400k house I'm still startled when I see these numbers. You will pry my 3% mortgages from my cold, dead hands (likely literally!).
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Oct 6, 2023 20:30
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You're probably not getting a 6.7% today unless you're buying a fuckton of points. Things have gotten so much worse than even 4 weeks ago.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:55
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I looked at FRED and they say it's 7.49 and nerd wallet says ~7.6% so I plugged in 7.6% $400k house $3241.87/mo incl PMI and property tax $9750 monthly take home pay or $135,000 annual household income pre tax https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/mortgage-rates https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US edit for annual household income I'm assuming a flat effective combined federal + state income tax rate of 15% which would be pretty much dead accurate for NC (flat 5%) but probably a couple thou low for someone in california (~7.5%) Hadlock fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 21:05
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Honestly I don't think doing an ARM right now would be that bad a move. Putting aside the fact that prices are likely to drop over the next year. In 5 years: If rates are lower (hopefully), refinance to a fixed If rates are around the same or a little higher, refinance to a new ARM If rates are a lot higher (kinda hard to imagine, but ok), and housing prices are somehow up, sell and go back to square one. If rates are a lot higher and housing prices are way down - the bank bought themselves a house. This was my strategy when I first bought back in middle/late 90's. What am I missing?
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Oct 6, 2023 21:07
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An ARM might make sense for some people but not if you can't afford a traditional mortgage. At that point you're taking the kind of risk that might work out might gently caress up a significant portion of your life
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Oct 6, 2023 21:13
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We bought using an ARM/ARM HELOC combo in early 2020 but it was a "big gamble" and we lucked out and last year we were able to refinance and lock in a 30 year fixed @ ~3.25%. We looked at our current salaries and career trajectories (and a baby on the way  ) and decided it was the right move for us at the time as we were currently in a 1bdm apartmentIf house prices stay high and rates drop in 5-7 years it's a big win, but financial ruin if rates rocket to 10% or more. Euro inflation is "only" 4.5% but inflation is "down" because of russia/energy prices messing with YoY CPI numbers. The fed could go up or down it's hard to tell, the economy is just really rockin' still We can definitely talk about what options are out there and various strategies but I would hesitate to strongly recommend someone step into an ARM for their starter home right now Hadlock fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 21:28
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Baddog posted:Honestly I don't think doing an ARM right now would be that bad a move. Putting aside the fact that prices are likely to drop over the next year. You're not really missing anything other than those last two options being "things people generally actively plan to avoid." If those are within your risk tolerance/desperation profile then go for it.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:52
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Hadlock posted:We bought using an ARM/ARM HELOC combo in early 2020 but it was a "big gamble" and we lucked out and last year we were able to refinance and lock in a 30 year fixed @ ~3.25%. We looked at our current salaries and career trajectories (and a baby on the way I think you have to be prepared for the "cut your losses and walk away" strategy, but I think out of the 4 possibilities I outlined it is the least likely one to occur. My only hesitancy on the ARM-for-a-starter-home right now would be that everything is screaming to me that housing has to break here, prices are going to have to come down a lot. But I've thought that for a year now, and we're still nearly unchanged. I have a friend who bought a lovely condo in a terrible location right before 2008, ended up insanely upside down on it, and was insistent that it would be morally wrong to just put it on the bank. ("I pay my debts!") I think even with the runup we've had it was only relatively recently that he got + on it again (really bad condo). Probably just in time for the next correction. Sure, having a foreclosure on your credit is going to suck for awhile (7 years right?), but I don't think it is the end of the world or even "financial ruin" by any means.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:00
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Baddog posted:My only hesitancy on the ARM-for-a-starter-home right now would be that everything is screaming to me that housing has to break here, prices are going to have to come down a lot. But I've thought that for a year now, and we're still nearly unchanged. And I think that supply and demand is a thing, and supply is not meeting demand and it will take along time to build out of that situation. So people who are well monied will continue to buy and hold homes, perhaps rent them out for the forseeable future. At best there may be a pause or slowing of increase. What theory are you operating on that you think prices will fall other than "regular people can't afford a home to live in"? Because that's never stopped capitalism before. In fact it just adds to economic inequality, a thing we've been doing in spades for quite some time now.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:02
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Motronic posted:What theory are you operating on that you think prices will fall other than "regular people can't afford a home to live in"? Because that's never stopped capitalism before. In fact it just adds to economic inequality, a thing we've been doing in spades for quite some time now. Is this where we loop through the "investors are buying up all the houses" conversation again for three pages
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Oct 6, 2023 22:13
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Motronic posted:And I think that supply and demand is a thing, and supply is not meeting demand and it will take along time to build out of that situation. So people who are well monied will continue to buy and hold homes, perhaps rent them out for the forseeable future. At best there may be a pause or slowing of increase. Unlikely that the demand line for a single family house in the burbs is a near vertical. Hadlock posted:Is this where we loop through the "investors are buying up all the houses" conversation again for three pages Even for investors! But point taken, hah. I just wanted to push back on the "arms-are-evil" line of thought a bit.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:20
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