|
Jack Trades posted:https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/6/23905946/microsoft-activision-blizzard-deal-finalization-timing-cma You're afraid of gaming disney, I'm afraid of what happens when they fail to be, a non-gamery faction of MS takes the wheel and we get the Embracer sitation on steroids. Ghost Leviathan posted:Some people had actually been comparing the current state of AAA games to be like Hollywood at the end of the old studio system, where epic movies just kept having to top themselves and each other with More, more extras, bigger sets, more massive setpieces regardless of whether they make the movie actually more interesting or fun to watch. They're putting all their eggs in one basket and then overcompensating by trying to focus-group everything to death to the point where AAA games are effectively interchangeable in gameplay and aesthetics. Which I imagine becomes a problem when people burn out on them, because there's nothing else in that sector that isn't the same poo poo now.
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 18:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:52 |
|
|
DaveKap posted:You know how baby boomers exist because everyone hosed after world war 2? Y'all think we're gonna get an insane indie boom in 2-3 years because all the laid off video game workers formed their own studios this year? the last thing indie devs want is for the amount of indie games to increase EVEN MORE. visibility and sales across the board for indie games (outside of the top earners) are already dogshit, more competition is not going to help. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 19:30
|
|
|
Yeah maybe a decade ago, gamedev people could easily quit to form their own companies. Nowadays only top executive or director level can maybe pull it off...and if they have investment support from the getgo. It's not like how crazy it used to be. Like Gabe Newell was already incredibly wealthy before he formed Valve. Same with all the old quake guys too. Blizzard used to have incredible bonuses 10 years ago too. It's kinda funny since games makes more money than it ever has before but it's harder to survive now. Games don't pay devs all the proceeds anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 20:00
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:Games don't pay devs all the proceeds anymore. they never did, all those people you mentioned were company founders with huge amounts of equity. you're only aware of their stories, not the stories of the thousands of devs who made the games along with them for a day rate. don't mythologize please.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:they never did, all those people you mentioned were company founders with huge amounts of equity. you're only aware of their stories, not the stories of the thousands of devs who made the games along with them for a day rate. don't mythologize please. The Game industry™ as a whole never was or will be competitive with the FAANG or Medical or Finance etc., but there are studios that have paid pretty well and currently pay pretty well. I don't think anyone is arguing that the industry is 'fair' in the aggregate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 20:42
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:they never did, all those people you mentioned were company founders with huge amounts of equity. you're only aware of their stories, not the stories of the thousands of devs who made the games along with them for a day rate. don't mythologize please. Sony Online Entertainment used to have a somewhat convoluted royalty scheme. Friend of mine worked on the Korean localization of EQ and the royalties bought his house.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 20:48
|
|
|
CDPR unionizing as well https://www.eurogamer.net/cd-projekt-red-devs-unionise-after-its-third-round-of-layoffs-in-three-months
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 21:17
|
|
|
Lots of studios have royalties or profit sharing of some kind, even today.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 21:19
|
|
|
I think this is conflating different things in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense, like transparency about lootbox drop rates, the age rating process, sales numbers, and layoffs. Those things affect completely different groups of people in different ways for different reasons and with different implications for what transparency would mean. If a company winds up doing something bad, then transparency is important for demonstrating that it is improving. Why do you need to know how many copies of a game sold though? Have you ever asked why it is that say Hollywood makes individual movie revenue information public when they really don't need to be doing that? The age rating case is especially obnoxious because the reason they don't make their age rating criteria public is the same reason the independent ratings agencies exist in the first place: To keep the politicians out of it. Supposedly the ratings criteria are confidential to prevent companies from gaming it, but that's basically kayfabe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:besides that unemployed workers generally don't have the money to form a studio, how are we not already in an indie game boom? like the amount of indie games, and great indie games, coming out every month, is loving crazy. Something I feel gets really understated is how hard it can be to stay afloat as an indie studio even when they do well for themselves. There's plenty of examples of indie devs that make a breakout hit but none of that success carries forward to their next game and suddenly they're in big trouble because they didn't expect to have a complete flop on their hands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 21:38
|
|
|
Srice posted:Something I feel gets really understated is how hard it can be to stay afloat as an indie studio even when they do well for themselves. There's plenty of examples of indie devs that make a breakout hit but none of that success carries forward to their next game and suddenly they're in big trouble because they didn't expect to have a complete flop on their hands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
stev posted:I'm struggling to think of many old guard devs who've set up successful studios lately. They all seem to either end up with a failed crowdfunding project and close or just make MTX laden shovelware to keep the lights on. We don't know if they're successful yet but Strain's family of studios (Crop Circle/Possibility Space) seem to be a place people like to work, Second Dinner was inarguably successful with Marvel Snap. So it's not all bleak, just less rosy than it used to be.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
OneEightHundred posted:I think this is conflating different things in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense, like transparency about lootbox drop rates, the age rating process, sales numbers, and layoffs. I mean I feel like that's kind of the point of the article overall, not that all transparency is equal but that gaming companies have gotten into more of a "be opaque by default" stance without being critical about why they're being opaque about it, and if the data in question is worth being opaque about (or even if it's actively harmful to be opaque about it). That said I also feel like most if not all game companies that start out small and transparent proceed to have their transparency yelled about 5 years later by angry people on the internet demanding to know why something released, didn't release, whatever, and that can absolutely instill a top-down culture of "don't fuckin talk to people outside the company about what we're doing unless we're marketing it or they have a subpoena" that can spill over into all facets of the company without there even needing to be anything actively malicious going on (case in point, Hello Games) so there's a lot of different reasons to arrive at the same current state of things
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2023 23:17
|
|
|
The fact of the matter is, transparency invites more problems then it solves for companies. It's better for consumers if a company is transparent, but even for a company completely on the up and up and doing nothing wrong, transparency: a) Invites misunderstanding, which in turn creates liability. Every internet neckbeard and government puddingbowl seems to think that they can read information given to them and leap to incredible conclusions of nefariousness, neglect, and wrongdoing because some critical piece of context wasn't provided with it. Maybe that piece of information really isn't something the public should see. Maybe nobody who knew it realized exactly how important it was to the information released. But the easy way to not suddenly find yourself under a whole lot of unintended and unwarranted scrutiny is to just... not. and b) Gets mistaken as an invitation to conversation. Too often, when companies are open to the public with their information, it gets taken as a willingness to have a dialog about it instead of, y'know, just sharing information. Especially in the days of the internet where putting your voice out is as effortless as some keystrokes and a submit button, people seem incensed when they shout angrily into the wind about some aspect of X when it is shared to the public and- god forbid- it's still there months later unchanged. The amount of gaming press over the last fifteen years that has amounted to "months later at launch, Thing X is still present despite everything" when Thing X was a never-negotiable piece of the package- a publisher demand, a way to save development time and put more effort on other aspects, or even a core part of the game design hollered at by people who were never going to be audience for the thing- is staggering. There's a lot of very, very good reasons why even companies founded in the best of intentions to have an open and communicative relationship with it's customers almost eventually close up and keep their shut trap on anything that hasn't seen the desk of a Project Director, a PR Manager, and two Corporate Lawyers first. If just to try to keep from overworking the second and reducing how much you have to pay down the line for the third. You can only get burned so many times until you stop touching the fire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 00:12
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:worth remembering that epic has been buying up middleware companies in the engine space, rip radgametools I'm not sure what these most recent layoffs did to the company, but at least up until then you could still purchase any of radgametool's products from them and integrate it into whatever you were using. The RAD owners were pretty much handed a big bag of money to change the name on the building and let epic integrate oodle into their engine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 01:40
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:a) Invites misunderstanding, which in turn creates liability. Every internet neckbeard and government puddingbowl seems to think that they can read information given to them and leap to incredible conclusions of nefariousness, neglect, and wrongdoing because some critical piece of context wasn't provided with it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 02:09
|
|
|
I feel like it's a truism that companies dislike transparency because it is bad for them. That's the point. We want it to be bad for them because otherwise they will screw us over.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 02:17
|
|
|
Rebel Blob posted:I am very interested in hearing some examples of companies being overly transparent leading to unwarranted government action. it depends on where the line between "transparency" and "the ceo hitting post about every concept that flits through their brain" lives, but "elon musk having an FTC agreement about how much tweeting about tesla he's allowed to do" jumps immediately to mind
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 03:25
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:a) Invites misunderstanding, which in turn creates liability. Every internet neckbeard and government puddingbowl seems to think that they can read information given to them and leap to incredible conclusions of nefariousness, neglect, and wrongdoing because some critical piece of context wasn't provided with it. Maybe that piece of information really isn't something the public should see. Maybe nobody who knew it realized exactly how important it was to the information released. But the easy way to not suddenly find yourself under a whole lot of unintended and unwarranted scrutiny is to just... not. Also a thing that happens a lot is people asking for "communication" and "transparency" about a decision that they disagree with but are not going to be satisfied with any answer they get, so why bother giving one just so they can complain about that too? e.g. supposedly Naughty Dog laying off QA contractors is a "transparency" issue, okay, if that is true, please tell me what piece of information Naughty Dog could possibly release that would make anyone change their mind and say "I guess it was okay to lay off their QA contractors." Clarste posted:I feel like it's a truism that companies dislike transparency because it is bad for them. That's the point. We want it to be bad for them because otherwise they will screw us over. There's a bunch of other stuff in a similar vein, information that is not very meaningful but winds up not getting out for the sole reason that they don't want it getting amplified into stupid distracting controversies by people who don't know what they're talking about. Like the general problem with viewing "transparency" as accountability is that you're assuming good faith on the part of people who want the information and that is VERY frequently not the case. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Oct 8, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 05:04
|
|
|
Ursine Catastrophe posted:it depends on where the line between "transparency" and "the ceo hitting post about every concept that flits through their brain" lives, but "elon musk having an FTC agreement about how much tweeting about tesla he's allowed to do" jumps immediately to mind That's more along the lines of warranted government action, though. Unwarranted from transparency is like, uh, best I can do is the stuff that got rejected or destroyed under the 2002-2005 import ban on szechuan pepper because they kept its real name on the label rather than going with "prickly ash" or "spices". That's pretty low-scale.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 05:10
|
|
|
It might be more productive to identify what specific set of disclosures are under consideration. In doing so, it also might be helpful to contrast the need for disclosure on such items against such a need with companies in other industries.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 06:36
|
|
|
I was writing a big post about how the concept of a game sale is losing relevance on multiple axes, but it got really boring and I'm tired. The tl;dr is that a "sold game" doesn't mean as much in an era of multiple platform launches, key resellers, micro transactions, and GamePass, and the reported figures are fuzzier because the data is fuzzier. And yeah, engaging with customers about game design decisions on a public forum is a losing proposition. In a one on one conversation, in person, I've had multiple detractors come around to my side or at least understand that I do have legitimate reasons for my decisions. It's never happened in public communication, because social media is about stating and then defending a position, not coming to an understanding. Or you're yelling at me because I made a number go down and you're actually unhappy with your opportunities for advancement at your job, but you can't yell at your job.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2023 09:32
|
|
|
Guess what they might have used AI for with the Gollum game. Guess again. Original source is a German outlet called Game Two, here are articles on PCN and videogameschronicle. quote:It’s now claimed that the apology was written with the AI software ChatGPT
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 06:43
|
|
|
OneEightHundred posted:I think this is conflating different things in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense, like transparency about lootbox drop rates, the age rating process, sales numbers, and layoffs. youve misunderstood the article absolutely perfectly somehow. incredible work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 06:58
|
|
|
shocked to find out the insincere apology letter full of corporate nothingspeak for releasing a game they knew was poo poo was insincere
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 07:47
|
|
|
Re. age rating criteria: PEGI is pretty transparent about how that works from what I recall. It isn't really independent either depending on how you define it, nor is it free from political influence. It's explicitly an industry association and the PEGI council is made up of representatives from EU countries and academics. I would guess ESRB is somewhat similar.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 10:19
|
|
|
I guess that explains them calling their own game “Lord of Ring Gollum”
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 10:20
|
|
|
Why even bother generating that with AI? It'd take you like 5 minutes to whip up two paragraphs of apology.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 10:27
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Why even bother generating that with AI? It'd take you like 5 minutes to whip up two paragraphs of apology. This requires someone be capable of even pretending to self-reflect.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 10:46
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Why even bother generating that with AI? It'd take you like 5 minutes to whip up two paragraphs of apology. A lot of people are/were convinced that algorithm generators are literally magic genies that will create the perfect thing you desire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 11:47
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:A lot of people are/were convinced that algorithm generators are literally magic genies that will create the perfect thing you desire. pray, mr. babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 11:54
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:
If ‘gaming journalism’* thrives on Drama, as a studio, you don’t want to give them a fingerhold. * any dork talking into a camera with his bed in the background Since Rad game tools is in the conversation - I’ve always found it interesting how simple their site is, it’s like someone learned html and kept adding to it over the years. I always figured RAD to be a 20 person company and half of them have PhDs (lol speaking about lack of transparency) http://www.radgametools.com/oodle.htm Coffee Jones fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Oct 9, 2023 |
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 12:03
|
|
|
Coffee Jones posted:I always figured RAD to be a 20 person company and half of them have PhDs (lol speaking about lack of transparency) one of RADs compression guys cut his teeth doing size-restricted demoscene programming remember that 96kb first person shooter from 2004? that was him
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 12:29
|
|
|
Cool. I've known about Farbrausch/the .produkkt when someone showed me their 2000 DirectX 8 64k demo the .product and later debris But also - (and correct me if I'm wrong) every PS5 has a dedicated Kraken decompression ASIC. I don't know how the royalties work out, but ...uh... Yeah, I'd like to work for a middleware company which produces specific yet fundamental products like that. There's also Miles Sound System by John Miles who was apparently THE PC Sound Guy in the DOS era who went onto design Windows sound. Everyone talks about John Carmack, but his story isn't really told.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 13:58
|
|
|
FMOD was by a goon originally. Could very well still be.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
OneEightHundred posted:Have you ever asked why it is that say Hollywood makes individual movie revenue information public when they really don't need to be doing that? Movie studios are required to make that information public by law, but only the gross ticket sales revenue which isn’t actually how much they're making on a film. Similarly, by law they're required to disclose the production budget, though not any of the other expenses that go into a movie.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 14:27
|
|
|
I am enjoying bailing from studio to studio making failed extraction shooters as the new FPS zeitgeist. Feels like I'm working for Tobias Funke rn lmao. Confirmed 2/3 kill rate, waiting for the triple kill once it's released Fishbus fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 19:15
|
|
|
Fruits of the sea posted:I would guess ESRB is somewhat similar. repiv posted:one of RADs compression guys cut his teeth doing size-restricted demoscene programming Coffee Jones posted:But also - (and correct me if I'm wrong) every PS5 has a dedicated Kraken decompression ASIC. I don't know how the royalties work out, but ...uh... The irony is that RAD's stuff is so fast because, per above, it's designed to run fast on CPUs, whereas say H.264 decode speeds are rear end on CPU because it was designed for ASICs. Discendo Vox posted:It might be more productive to identify what specific set of disclosures are under consideration. In doing so, it also might be helpful to contrast the need for disclosure on such items against such a need with companies in other industries. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
ding dong unity ceo is out https://twitter.com/Kellen_Browning/status/1711481149846122674
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:52 |
|
|
I'm sure a lot of the other higher ups there were pushing for it too, but Riccitello always came across as deeply unlikable so I'm not sad to see him go.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 21:43
|
|