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SlinkyMink posted:So, it took a couple days and a trip down to the local coffee roaster and bar to get all the data points I needed, but after an increasingly worried feeling that I'd hosed up and would never figure it out, I pulled my first truly impressive shot through the La Pavoni. The cup was full bodied, fairly clean, and not astringent with a nice crema. It was very enjoyable and probably better than any espresso shot I've had in recent memory. I'm so happy with the results and took enough notes that I hope will help me recreate the results. I'm still vibrating from the amount of coffee I've tasted in the last few days, but no one said success would be easy. In case you missed it in your research, unless it’s extremely dark roasted, it’ll be easiest to pull good shots from beans that are about 8 days (+/- a few depending) after roast date.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:16
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:In case you missed it in your research, unless it’s extremely dark roasted, it’ll be easiest to pull good shots from beans that are about 8 days (+/- a few depending) after roast date. I appreciate the insight! I actually didn't know this. I'm used to using beans around 3-5 days after roast for my pourover and French press. This could definitely have been a factor here. The home roasted beans were about a week or so old and I tried to tamp much lighter than I had been to get a steady pull and that may have been what lead to the improvements.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:09
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SlinkyMink posted:I appreciate the insight! I actually didn't know this. I'm used to using beans around 3-5 days after roast for my pourover and French press. This could definitely have been a factor here. The home roasted beans were about a week or so old and I tried to tamp much lighter than I had been to get a steady pull and that may have been what lead to the improvements. This is also an incorrect way to do this. For espresso, your goal is to make every variable exactly the same, every time, except your target variable. Tamps should be the same every time and never change. You do this either with a calibrated tamper or by tamping hard as hell (you can not over-tamp, but you can absolutely under-tamp). If your machine is choking the shot (slow/no pour out), your grind is too fine, your dose is too high, or your water isn't hot enough. These videos should give you an idea of how to dial espresso, and how to understand what variables to change, when to change them, and what their effects are. If it's not talked about in these videos, it's because you shouldn't be changing it. As an aside, I forget if it's covered in them, but every bean from every roaster (and even often every bag of the same bean from the same roaster) is going to dial different. If you're home roasting, then each roast batch is going to dial differently, even from the same greens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQfn4jcWS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hihG6kaxbk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFB6E_7W2c0 (This one is a full playlist) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwJF-_SUr0 (About resting and why/how) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Py8JOi3REg (Tools & Tamping) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb3IxAr4RCo
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Oct 3, 2023 21:16
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:This is also an incorrect way to do this. Hm...now you've got me wondering. I was originally under the same impression regarding the tamp pressure after watching James Hoffman's making espresso video, but in this video cut to the specific moment ( https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWUoVSJ0n_kJLyAL8r19OHfbI3nhFrkmz?si=j-nNMkt-IM8V9KpF ), James discusses tamping for this particular machine as something to be done without an insane amount of force. I also had to throw out the first 3 or so shots I tried through the machine, despite actually grinding almost twice as coarse as the Apollo suggested to start with for espresso grind, as it choked the machine. Now, I'm tamping enough to press the air out and then a little more, but I'm not throwing my whole body behind it like I did the first couple times and that has helped the shots both in pull and also in flavor, and the puck at the end comes out intact without any overt visual evidence of channeling. I'm wondering if this machine has a weird quirk or if there's something else I'm doing wrong. The machine itself heats and pressurizes to 1 bar and everything else seems to work fine. I'm pre-infusing 10 seconds on a 15g dose in a14-16g basket before pulling and now can consistently get good results. My beans are City+ roast and were roasted 9/22. I will try a coarser grind next time and see if I can go coarse enough to tamp the thing into oblivion without choking the machine. FOR SCIENCE Edit: Yeah, it really seems like it shouldn't be choking due to over tamping, the more I'm seeing about the machine. I guess I just need to leave my expectations out of this and try a coarser grind. I'll definitely report back! SlinkyMink fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 23:24
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bizwank posted:That model has a thermoblock so it's quite a bit more stable temperature-wise than any entry-level machine with a traditional boiler; most of the ones I see hover in the high 190s for the full duration of the shot, assuming they've been regularly descaled. They've got the same 15 bar vibratory pump that's in every other home machine on the US market so any pressure issues are probably going to be a problem with your coffee or puck prep, or a sign of a machine that's in need of some maintenance or otherwise malfunctioning in some way. If you want a more traditional steam wand there's also the EC885M, for roughly the same price. There just really isn't a better starter machine on the (US) market, especially for the money. The bambino plus also has a thermoblock and is pretty cheap. Same general issues though, 54mm basket.
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Oct 3, 2023 23:24
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SlinkyMink posted:Huh. I'm usually the official camp coffee brewer but find making enough for the whole site takes a couple passes in the French press. If you make a huge batch, can you just dole it out by pouring from the pot or does that stir the grounds up a lot? I might need to try this instead, next time. I haven’t exactly cracked the code on the grounds yet but a careful pour certainly helps. I think adding cold water at the end helps. I added an egg one time and it was extremely crunchy. It’s been a bit like flipping a coin. Luckily the grounds generally settle in the bottom of the cup, too. Just got cord of wood in so I can do this all winter :party:
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Oct 4, 2023 01:06
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You clearly need a ladle with a 3 ft handle so you can dip and serve while staying seated on your stump
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Oct 4, 2023 01:25
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Rationale posted:I haven’t exactly cracked the code on the grounds yet but a careful pour certainly helps. I think adding cold water at the end helps. I added an egg one time and it was extremely crunchy. It’s been a bit like flipping a coin. Luckily the grounds generally settle in the bottom of the cup, too. Hell yeah! Imma try this next time. The egg might be a bridge too far for me, but up til then, I'm down.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:27
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SlinkyMink posted:Hm...now you've got me wondering. I was originally under the same impression regarding the tamp pressure after watching James Hoffman's making espresso video, but in this video cut to the specific moment ( https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWUoVSJ0n_kJLyAL8r19OHfbI3nhFrkmz?si=j-nNMkt-IM8V9KpF ), James discusses tamping for this particular machine as something to be done without an insane amount of force. I also had to throw out the first 3 or so shots I tried through the machine, despite actually grinding almost twice as coarse as the Apollo suggested to start with for espresso grind, as it choked the machine. Now, I'm tamping enough to press the air out and then a little more, but I'm not throwing my whole body behind it like I did the first couple times and that has helped the shots both in pull and also in flavor, and the puck at the end comes out intact without any overt visual evidence of channeling. That does seem like a machine specific quirk. But to be clear on what James is saying here, he’s talking about water getting into the sides of the basket and potentially bypassing the puck. This quirk wouldn’t result in a choke, but could cause uneven extraction, and would be really similar to channeling.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:37
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there's no benefit to tamping super hard. There's also no particular harm, so long as your tamper stays level, but if pressing harder doesn't make your tamp move deeper into the basket, you've already tamped hard enough. 10 or 15 pounds of force is plenty, you don't need to put your body weight into it. There's a lot of old bullshit still floating around about tamping pressure because baristas thought it was one of the variables that affected puck prep a lot, back when grinders had dosers and your finger was considered an important puck prep tool. We've moved on. Tamping pressure is binary - "enough" or "not enough" - and "enough" is a surprisingly light force.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:17
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Yeah, this all makes sense. I'm gonna back the grind off another couple clicks and see what I can get done tomorrow. Hopefully I can finally get it figured out. Thanks all!
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Oct 4, 2023 02:31
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I’m just skimming, but I have a Cremina and in my experience got better results grinding a little finer and tamping lighter than I would for a pump.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:45
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What's the best method to get the best possible cup out of a Mr. Coffee """espresso""" machine? My wife is the only one who uses it but oddly enough she's not very picky about her coffee as long as it's dark and strong since she makes it pretty heavy with milk. I made a few cups in it and didn't like the results enough to use it over my aeropress, french press, moka pot, or pourover. Our other equipment is a Capresso Infinity grinder or hand grinder. I assume the comedy answer is "put it outside on the curb on trash day and go to a good coffee shop for a real espresso," but I'm curious to play around with it and see if it can produce something I actually like.
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Oct 4, 2023 21:39
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:What's the best method to get the best possible cup out of a Mr. Coffee """espresso""" machine? My wife is the only one who uses it but oddly enough she's not very picky about her coffee as long as it's dark and strong since she makes it pretty heavy with milk. I made a few cups in it and didn't like the results enough to use it over my aeropress, french press, moka pot, or pourover. Our other equipment is a Capresso Infinity grinder or hand grinder. It’s not really the comedy answer. It’s never going to make good coffee. I’d try the preground store stuff to see if it makes something palatable if that’s the idea. It should be suited to the pressurized “espresso” machine. And if you’re doctoring it with milk and sugar you might find it okay. Probably not often worth the effort, but if a decent coffee shop is further away then it might be okay.
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Oct 4, 2023 21:56
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Hauki posted:I’m just skimming, but I have a Cremina and in my experience got better results grinding a little finer and tamping lighter than I would for a pump. So, today I actually ground coarser and tamped very firmly (without being over the top, but definitely more than I have the past couple shots when I was being delicate) and was actually able to pull a very nice shot without feeling like I was gonna explode the machine but also without it feeling like I was pulling water through an empty basket. I definitely think it was comparable to my more lightly tamped puck. Were you finding a lighter tamp to be just easier to pull or was there something else behind it? I definitely feel like there's more to this than I initially thought and wonder if it really is just a lever machine thing or if it's something else. I am definitely going to keep my new grind setting and tamp firmly from now on as it's one less variable, but I'm very curious about this now.
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Oct 5, 2023 00:06
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Can we talk about Kona coffee? A friend was recently in Maui and picked up a bag of Lion beans for me. He got them at what I think was a grocery store so even though it was $30 for seven goddamn ounces of beans, I wasn’t too surprised when they tasted like nothing. Pretty indistinguishable from any medium dark roast of maybe a Brazilian or something. it seems like there are a poo poo load of blogspam websites talking about the best Kona coffee, none of them say why it’s good, and it seems like it’s second only to kopi luwak in how overhyped it is. What does actual good Kona coffee taste like? I couldn’t find any good third wave roasters doing it, but I really didn’t look too hard. Any recommendations?
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Oct 6, 2023 17:02
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Kona coffee is supposed to be incredibly mild, I don't get it either  Is it something that was big before third wave coffee took off in the US?
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Oct 6, 2023 17:08
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I've had great experiences with Kona in both Hawaii and I'm the Midwest though it's hard to get out here due to prices. The espresso buzz is way different (gave me the same sensations as a body high). Ymmv.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:16
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Hawaii has good chocolate and fruit. Their coffee I felt was kinda lacking
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Oct 6, 2023 17:19
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Kona's reputation is due to historical reasons; it commanded a higher price due to the limited amount of suitable farmland in Hawaii, which in turn meant they could be more selective what coffee beans they exported. I've heard people describe it as a very clean cup, but nothing special, and other specialty coffee farmers are just as selective now. Even though Kona is average compared to other specialty coffees, it still commands a high price, due to its historical reputation. There's also coffee sold misleadingly as Kona blends, which might only contain a small portion of Kona coffee. Overall, it's a label I avoid.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:24
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Tippecanoe posted:Kona's reputation is due to historical reasons; it commanded a higher price due to the limited amount of suitable farmland in Hawaii, which in turn meant they could be more selective what coffee beans they exported. I've heard people describe it as a very clean cup, but nothing special, and other specialty coffee farmers are just as selective now. Even though Kona is average compared to other specialty coffees, it still commands a high price, due to its historical reputation. There's also coffee sold misleadingly as Kona blends, which might only contain a small portion of Kona coffee. Overall, it's a label I avoid. Thank you!
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Oct 6, 2023 17:38
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i own every Bionicle posted:Can we talk about Kona coffee? A friend was recently in Maui and picked up a bag of Lion beans for me. He got them at what I think was a grocery store so even though it was $30 for seven goddamn ounces of beans, I wasn’t too surprised when they tasted like nothing. Pretty indistinguishable from any medium dark roast of maybe a Brazilian or something. it seems like there are a poo poo load of blogspam websites talking about the best Kona coffee, none of them say why it’s good, and it seems like it’s second only to kopi luwak in how overhyped it is. What does actual good Kona coffee taste like? I couldn’t find any good third wave roasters doing it, but I really didn’t look too hard. Any recommendations? My only experience with Kona was at a small Cafe roaster in Wisconsin that I used to frequent. The owner had a connection in Hawaii that got him yearly shipments of a small batch that he'd sell until it was gone. As soon as I realized they had it, I tried it in a pourover (in my readings and experience probably the best way to get a taste of the origin while being a clean cup) and wasn't blown away, but did very much enjoy it. The notes were stone fruity and floral and light. Almost like peach and that light, almost creamy smell that you get from some Plumeria blooms. I actually got to chat with the owner who told me about his connect and even sold me some beans to roast at home. They were obscenely expensive even with a discount compared to what I normally bought (wanna say like $25 per pound green) but I was able to roast them at home and get similar notes. From my experience, the way I see Kona is that it's reminiscent of those crazy natural wines or really sought after Scotches that taste like smoke and ash: they are worth the taste for the experience, even if it's not to your taste. The uniqueness of the flavor is what makes it interesting. My next goal is to try and buy some authentic green Blue Mountain to try my hand at roasting, but yeah, I'm almost worried about the source and it just being a bait and switch similar to Kopi or the cheap Kona blend knock offs.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:47
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That's also how my guy got his beans - a direct deal with his own farming friend in Hawaii. If you're ever in Oahu, check out green world coffee. poo poo is absolutely dope.
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Oct 6, 2023 18:04
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Cannon_Fodder posted:That's also how my guy got his beans - a direct deal with his own farming friend in Hawaii. Aw, man...I actually had a coworker that has family that lives out there and has a small farm. I was desperately trying to see if he could sell me a batch of beans but he was really cagey and ultimately basically told me it wasn't worth it and even if it was, the cost of export and everything just wasn't worth it. Broke my heart... I absolutely intend to visit one day when I have a life outside of work, so probably in another 30 years... 
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Oct 6, 2023 18:54
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About ~10 years ago, a co-worker brought some overpriced Kona beans into the office for me to brew since I was the resident coffee nerd hand-grinding beans and making french press for everybody in the office. Ignoring the fact that the beans I brewed were stale, it was pretty evident even back then that the brand is just preying on uninformed travelers who think the packaging looks fancy.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:36
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the Sebastian Ramirez ipa from Methodical is the second weirdest coffee I’ve ever had. Way cleaner than i thought it’d be considering it tastes like hops, and also is good somehow
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Oct 7, 2023 18:53
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I spent a week in Portugal and I've concluded coffee is way too expensive in the USA. I drank several espressos a day and they were usually 1 euro or under and they were delicious. Granted, it was always a single shot so more like 7g of coffee, but still. They tasted uniformly excellent too at all the restaurants and cafes and bakeries I went to. Any place with a real espresso machine had baristas that knew what they were doing. It pisses me off now when I go to Ritual or Blue Bottle and the espresso costs $4 and I have to tip $1 on top of that. Weird fun fact: A cappucino in Portugal is a huge milky drink served in a huge glass and a latte is more normal sized.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:07
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Anyone have a coffee poster they like? I saw this one on an ad and I'm considering one or two above my bar. Says "Taster's Flavor Wheel" and there's tons of options for that style available, which is nice.
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Oct 7, 2023 23:29
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the moka pot poster that james hoffman got made is really cool if you’re into italian futurism
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Oct 8, 2023 03:18
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I've been troubleshooting a grind quality issue, and I'm starting to think that I don't have an issue and just have wrong expectations. Can someone give me a second opinion? I have a Baratza Virtuoso+ and grind for pourover using setting 18-22. In the past few months, I've been noticing larger chunks of bean clinging to the sides of my filter and a slower drawdown. When I look at the ground coffee, it has a larger range of grind size than I feel like it should. I worked through the Baratza grind troubleshooting guidance, both their PDF and a couple videos, and all components appear to be in good shape. If I grind on 0 and 10, I get consistent grind size. Going up to 20 is where I start noticing a wider range. As an example, I sieved some coffee ground on 18 through a regular kitchen sieve. I get about 50/50 between the chunks on the left and the fines on the right of this image. Does this look normal? Is there usually a range of fineness in the output like this? Am I just a coffee grinder hypochondriac? 
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Oct 8, 2023 23:38
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In my experience chunks like that usually mean something is wrong with the grinder, either that the upper burr retainer is missing one or more of its tabs so the burr has some vertical slop, or that the burr isn't even threaded in and it's only the pressure of the hopper keeping it in place. If it's grinding fine ok then it's probably not the latter but if you've been taking it apart between tests then that's still on the table.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:34
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The three tabs on the upper burr retainer are definitely present and undamaged. When you say 'threaded in', do you mean where those tabs engage the mechanism that changes the grind? That seems to be working properly. If I remove the hopper and turn the ring manually, I can see the tabs get engaged and get pulled downward. Also, I didn't take it apart between tests. I'll mess with it some more this evening and look for other things that could be causing vertical slop. Thanks!
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Oct 9, 2023 18:54
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Someone here mentioned that they liked the Cafec paper filters as a replacement for the no-longer-available japanese, tabless V60 filter. I need to buy some new filters, but there are too many choices on the Cafec website. What should I be buying for a V60 02 filter?
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Oct 9, 2023 22:11
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MetaJew posted:Someone here mentioned that they liked the Cafec paper filters as a replacement for the no-longer-available japanese, tabless V60 filter. I’d go with the (slightly confusingly numbered) Abaca 4. It’s the size of a regular 02, so it’ll definitely fit, and it’s got great drawdown. I haven’t had good experiences with the light roast paper - at least a 5 minute drawdown time with very astringent and over extracted coffees irrespective of grind or water - but the Abaca rule, probably my favorite besides the ones made by the good Japanese Hario factory I can never remember.
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Oct 10, 2023 00:45
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oscarthewilde posted:I’d go with the (slightly confusingly numbered) Abaca 4. It’s the size of a regular 02, so it’ll definitely fit, and it’s got great drawdown. I haven’t had good experiences with the light roast paper - at least a 5 minute drawdown time with very astringent and over extracted coffees irrespective of grind or water - but the Abaca rule, probably my favorite besides the ones made by the good Japanese Hario factory I can never remember. Where have you ordered yours from?
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Oct 10, 2023 01:38
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why do cafec have such a needlessly massive selection
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Oct 10, 2023 16:05
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Welp... Assuming I was ordering from a legit CafecUSA website, shipping was $12 so I ordered a year supply of filters.
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Oct 10, 2023 16:38
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 but also, nothing wrong with having a good surplus of stuff you usually run out of anyway
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Oct 10, 2023 16:45
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ulvir posted:why do cafec have such a needlessly massive selection Do the ones for specific types of coffee even effect the taste? I got the 4 cup t-90 ones and they've been pretty good so far.
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Oct 10, 2023 17:04
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Do the ones for specific types of coffee even effect the taste? Their light roast specific filters used to flow really quickly and were my favourite for years. Then they changed how they're manufactured and now they flow super slow and suck.
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Oct 10, 2023 17:31
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