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Frosted Flake posted:I don’t know how to articulate how much people have been trained to have a distaste for heavy industry and will privilege any bullshit that’s lean, digital, innovative or a start up. Because the Soviet loved the heavy industry, so you got to do the opposite of what the Soviet did. Also spin off NASA R&D to Elon Musk because you need to have fake capitalist competition.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:12
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stephenthinkpad posted:Because the Soviet loved the heavy industry, so you got to do the opposite of what the Soviet did. Also spin off NASA R&D to Elon Musk because you need to have fake capitalist competition. nah it’s not that, oil & gas after-all is a heavy industry. it is that heavy industry requires significant capital investment and that’s anathema to short term profits.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:26
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Do the Chinese have any kind of academic discipline where they study the US to learn how not to run an empire? It would make for an interesting degree.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:32
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Fell Mood posted:Do the Chinese have any kind of academic discipline where they study the US to learn how not to run an empire? It would make for an interesting degree. It's called Marxist-Leninism op
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Oct 11, 2023 20:33
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Slavvy posted:It's called Marxist-Leninism op
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Oct 11, 2023 20:37
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stephenthinkpad posted:Because the Soviet loved the heavy industry, so you got to do the opposite of what the Soviet did. Also spin off NASA R&D to Elon Musk because you need to have fake capitalist competition. The Soviet Union speed running the Industrial Revolution saved them from being annihilated by the Nazis. Anyone or anything that supports communism must be shunned and punished forever. Forever.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:42
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Trabisnikof posted:nah it’s not that, oil & gas after-all is a heavy industry. it is that heavy industry requires significant capital investment and that’s anathema to short term profits. I think you can make an argument that US heavy industries are legacy from before the cold war and before the US turned ideological nutcase. Also just numbers I remember off my head, the R&D spending in the Kennedy era was 12% versus 2% currently.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:48
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The Oldest Man posted:Wait you're telling me you can't run a state defense industry using the cult of small business? Frosted Flake posted:I don’t know how to articulate how much people have been trained to have a distaste for heavy industry and will privilege any bullshit that’s lean, digital, innovative or a start up. But you can try very hard to do it anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w5FNux8ez8
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Oct 11, 2023 20:51
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stephenthinkpad posted:I think you can make an argument that US heavy industries are legacy from before the cold war and before the US turned ideological nutcase. that might be true for the steel mills, but it certainly isnt true for energy or aerospace. and even in the steel industry we didnt see real declines until the 1970s, well after the start of anti-communist cold war fever. it isn't an ideological opposition to the soviets that made america abandon the industrial base, but instead the overarching nature of finance capitalism. your return on assets ratio looks great whenever you sell off a massive asset. the investment in maintenance or construction of new industrial capacity cant compete with the roi of paper assets and other financial trickery. why didnt these forces impact the energy industry (and oil & gas in particular)? in part because we give O&G special tax statues that let them achieve lower costs of investment and better roi than even financial investments, but also because the most expensive capital investments, refineries, are requisite for the high roi extraction industry that is able to take place all across the globe and leverage those typical cross-border imperial benefits. the refineries themselves are teetering on collapse, because even with that core position, it still doesnt pay to maintain them, their margins are slim, and companies are trying to get out of that business. which is the pattern you'd assume from the larger trends. but its still cheaper to keep cancer alley in the US rather than ship the products in. if anything, the traditional MIC grift and anti-communistic ideology is what kept american industry alive as long as it did. both through military spending and also through a desire for direct economic competition in countries we were economically targeting. if america couldn't provide a resource or a good the threat was the soviets might provide that instead. absent the cold war, the Business School-facation of the MIC was able to take complete hold and we get companies like our modern Boeing.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:07
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Lostconfused posted:But you can try very hard to do it anyway lol the loving scaled agile, mba, military is a marketplace brain rot in the mic is terminal
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Oct 11, 2023 23:10
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The Oldest Man posted:lol the loving scaled agile, mba, military is a marketplace brain rot in the mic is terminal lol the fact that they think this will deter… let me check my notes…the country that makes everything… is concerning.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:30
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Frosted Flake posted:lol the fact that they think this will deter… let me check my notes…the country that makes everything… is concerning. we simply need to create market incentives [market moves all manufacturing capital and intellectual know-how to Team Red] ah well nevertheless
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Oct 11, 2023 23:32
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1712088794806263935 How is the west planning to go to war with the country it orders body armour from? jw.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:40
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People worried about Bidens crazy rhetoric about Israel are overestimate US capability I think. Even multiple aircraft carriers launching planes seem unlikely to add that much ordinance to what the Israelis are already dropping. Bombing the rubble of already bombed hospitals has diminishing returns. Any significant help would be on the ground and it took years to prepare to invade Iraq for the second time and our invasion was nearly unopposed so getting troops in place to invade Gaza wouldn't be that much easier. The US was still constantly short on material goods in 03 and even this forum was donating to troops like it was a school bake sale. The American empire is dramatically weaker today than it was in 2003 and that was before we shipped off so much to Ukraine. Hell it's crazy to think how much weaker the empire is now than it was when it lost wars in Vietnam and Korea. Actually, aren't militaries worldwide generally weaker than they were in the 20th century (except China)? The advantages of the additional technology seem much less significant than the loss of industrial capability or switching from bigger more destructive systems to smaller ones focused on assisting special operations. You certainly seem to see this in Israel where they lost combat capability over 50 years to focus on bully boy poo poo and protecting their conscripts. This just matters the most to the US because no other country wants to fight wars thousands of miles from their border.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:09
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Basically liberalism lost the ability to motivate soldiers and civilian populations, while deindustrializing at the same time.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:28
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I love that moneyball talk, because him an hour of talking jargon back and forth to finally admit they just want to buy some cheap drones at China and sell them at markup. (China totally should also just put back doors in all of them for their own EW purposes.)
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Oct 12, 2023 00:58
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ask a liberal to choose between jesus and barrabas, and they will respond by adjourning the meeting and forming a committee to further research the question at hand. it's much the same in warfighting, where the fundamentally flawed liberal Weltanschauung leads them to confuse their idealised version of reality with what is actually occurring. it'd be hilarious, if it weren't going to kill us all
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Oct 12, 2023 01:02
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oscarthewilde posted:ask a liberal to choose between jesus and barrabas, and they will respond by adjourning the meeting and forming a committee to further research the question at hand. it's much the same in warfighting, where the fundamentally flawed liberal Weltanschauung leads them to confuse their idealised version of reality with what is actually occurring. it'd be hilarious, if it weren't going to kill us all isn’t an implied thesis here that it is kind of losing its ability to kill us all war: it’s just too expensive folks
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Oct 12, 2023 01:11
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addendum: I’m not actually that stupid. close, but quite
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Oct 12, 2023 01:11
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FuzzySlippers posted:People worried about Bidens crazy rhetoric about Israel are overestimate US capability I think. Even multiple aircraft carriers launching planes seem unlikely to add that much ordinance to what the Israelis are already dropping. Bombing the rubble of already bombed hospitals has diminishing returns. the carriers are not there to bomb palestinians but to deter outside forces from intervening to stop the israelis or like aid flotillas that help gaza
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Oct 12, 2023 01:58
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yellowcar posted:the carriers are not there to bomb palestinians but to deter outside forces from intervening to stop the israelis or like aid flotillas that help gaza It's there so the pilots can get their logbook hours up doing bomb runs on anything with 2 or more bricks.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:09
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yellowcar posted:the carriers are not there to bomb palestinians but to deter outside forces from intervening to stop the israelis or like aid flotillas that help gaza They may be bombing Lebanon and Syria though.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:11
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https://twitter.com/TotherChris/status/1712046645012041848 bringing back thumpers only this time griftily
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Oct 12, 2023 08:34
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The MIC desperately needs to invent the smartguns from the Aliens movie, where every round is a tiny computer guided tracking rocket. Must be like ten grand a shot and those things fire full auto. Imagine the glee when the colonial marines ordered those.
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Oct 12, 2023 10:05
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DancingShade posted:The MIC desperately needs to invent the smartguns from the Aliens movie, where every round is a tiny computer guided tracking rocket. Must be like ten grand a shot and those things fire full auto. Imagine the glee when the colonial marines ordered those. this also reminds me of the APC in the Aliens movie which is useless in anything that isn't a flat road
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Oct 12, 2023 11:06
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Frosted Flake posted:How is the west planning to go to war with the country it orders body armour from? jw. Dude you buy the armor before the war geez I thought you were an expert on this poo poo
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Oct 12, 2023 15:15
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Palladium posted:this also reminds me of the APC in the Aliens movie which is useless in anything that isn't a flat road yeah but the main grift was the top turret on a track so that it could be slung around the back instead of just making the doors (that were also built by the same company) two feet taller
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Oct 12, 2023 15:21
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/TotherChris/status/1712046645012041848 Canada procured these for CANSOFCOM (and only CANSOFCOM)
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Oct 12, 2023 15:23
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CANS OF CUM 
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Oct 12, 2023 16:39
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Frosted Flake posted:I don’t know how to articulate how much people have been trained to have a distaste for heavy industry and will privilege any bullshit that’s lean, digital, innovative or a start up. industrial workers have unions. fart app designers in weworks do not
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Oct 12, 2023 16:41
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Frosted Flake posted:How is the west planning to go to war with the country it orders body armour from? jw. duh once we win the war in a week we'll just own all those factories or whatever
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Oct 12, 2023 17:05
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Also the question is how to go to war, not how to win a war. German Reich went to war with the Soviet Union even though it was getting steel from them, it can be done.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:43
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Lostconfused posted:Also the question is how to go to war, not how to win a war. Ominous foreshadowing.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:57
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Lostconfused posted:Also the question is how to go to war, not how to win a war. hm I wonder who produces most of the world's steel now
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Oct 12, 2023 18:33
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Mister Bates posted:hm I wonder who produces most of the world's steel now it's nbd, we got this  the covid pandemic blurb is very funny
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Oct 12, 2023 18:45
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DancingShade posted:The MIC desperately needs to invent the smartguns from the Aliens movie, where every round is a tiny computer guided tracking rocket. Must be like ten grand a shot and those things fire full auto. Imagine the glee when the colonial marines ordered those. um akshually they're regular guns firing regular ammo (though it is explosive-tipped) the "smart" part is that the entire gun is on a gyro-stabilized powered mount coupled to an infrared lead/aim computing sight that points the gun at the target for you if you aim it within the general vicinity. and they're very cool
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Oct 12, 2023 19:45
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The Oldest Man posted:um akshually Can you run w a steadicam rig?
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Oct 12, 2023 19:52
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Frosted Flake posted:This drives me crazy since I did some research on retooling Canadian industry during WW2 and Canadian wartime production of guns and associated systems. It's very, very hard to explain to the average person how far we've fallen, even in the military. I imagine it's just about impossible to explain to a civilian that pipe and boilermakers were retooled to make hundreds of guns and carriages, but we can't do that anymore because we don't even have the civilian industries anymore. There are no Canadian railroad workshops to convert from making locomotives to Leopard 2s, no manufacturer of boilers, grain elevating and conveying machinery, hydraulic turbines, tugs, and reciprocating and centrifugal pumps to make 60% of GPMGs in service worldwide, plus the machinery for 4 destroyers and hundreds of light antiaircraft guns. You see what I mean? That's not even getting into the state's will or ability to harness industry (lol), the state abolished tariffs and let the industry dissolve. So what you're saying is that China can easily turn all that excess industrial capacity to military production if for some crazy reason there's a huge drop in consumer demand?
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Oct 12, 2023 19:52
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Lostconfused posted:So what you're saying is that China can easily turn all that excess industrial capacity to military production if for some crazy reason there's a huge drop in consumer demand? lol we’re so hosed it’s not even funny
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Oct 12, 2023 19:53
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Frosted Flake posted:Can you run w a steadicam rig? Absolutely I thought it was questionable that the smart gun troops were the ones sent in to clear small rooms though Also you can deploy the smart gun as a poor man's automatic sentry if you've got a tripod handy
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Oct 12, 2023 19:57
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