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That was a terrible post of mine wow. Just bouncing around from subjects without a care in the world.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:33
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SCheeseman posted:It wasn't lost, it was in the hands of Matt Saettler the whole time. He threw hints at reverse engineering devs on IRC now and again. So he had the source code and never released it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7oscFP-IbM
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Oct 12, 2023 03:41
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yeah I'm only two levels into Aftershock and it rules, it's way cooler than the sewer festival that formed the main campaign.
LvK fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 04:52
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Angry_Ed posted:See you say that but Rare Replay is still confined to the Xbox Yeah I'm still mystified about that one TOOT BOOT posted:I wish Nightdive would do a Doom/II remaster but I'm guessing the Unity port is probably considered 'good enough' by Bethesda. Give it a couple more years and they'll want another version for the next big anniversary, hopefully this time they'll do it as a singular package instead of needlessly splitting them up
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Oct 12, 2023 04:53
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the doom/2 remaster is just gzdoom with voxel doom 2
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Oct 12, 2023 05:09
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drrockso20 posted:Yeah I'm still mystified about that one I did some searching and apparently it's because some of the games rely on the Xbox's backwards compatibility and thus not something they can just easily port to PC. I still would like it though.
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Oct 12, 2023 05:57
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site posted:the doom/2 remaster is just gzdoom with voxel doom 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M_BHcSVTRw
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Oct 12, 2023 06:19
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Volte posted:It is good enough.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:18
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Doctor Bishop posted:Funny thing about Blood is that since the source code was lost, every "port" is in fact a reconstruction, either reverse-engineering the game based on its differences from Duke 3D's source code (NBlood, Raze, BloodGDX) or remaking it in another engine entirely (Fresh Supply). Kex doesn't work that way (not sure why we keep needing to tell people this), Fresh Supply was a disassembly of its own engine. Volte posted:That would be quite an engineering challenge considering the Split Pad Pro don't have gyroscopes in them I see you haven't played any of our ports on Switch. 
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Oct 12, 2023 08:43
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site posted:the doom/2 remaster is just gzdoom with voxel doom 2 Basically, the hundred of mods (and levels and TCs done for GZDoom) makes it the definitive remaster. Although, the definitive remaster would be if GZDoom dev would wake up and make more aggressive changes to the engine, like Helion, which have a 10x performance.
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Oct 12, 2023 08:48
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Angry_Ed posted:I did some searching and apparently it's because some of the games rely on the Xbox's backwards compatibility and thus not something they can just easily port to PC. Doesn't explain why it's never been available for cloud streaming
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Oct 12, 2023 08:58
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Turin Turambar posted:Basically, the hundred of mods (and levels and TCs done for GZDoom) makes it the definitive remaster. Worth noting that Helion's changes basically break the way Doom worked in some rather non-compliant ways. It sacrifices the software renderer by dropping the BSP renderer and just drawing large sections of the level in one go on the GPU, then breaks up actor processing by distance to limit the number of sprites drawn. The main costs of this is transparency is no longer ordered and actor processing is no longer constant so GZdooms compatibility with its own map sets would go down the toilet. I wouldn't even know how you'd approach this for multiplayer and demo compatibility would be a faff (demo playback performance would be directly affected by the host machine that recorded it).
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Oct 12, 2023 09:20
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Rocket Pan posted:It sacrifices the software renderer Oh noes. What I'm gonna do without software renderer... in the year of the lord 2023. (same as demos, honestly I have never used them. sorry speedrunners) quote:actor processing is no longer constant so GZdooms compatibility with its own map sets would go down the toilet. This is more important, compatibility with existing maps. Not a lot of point in doing a Doom sourceport if you break compatibility with a good number of wads! They say "Supports Vanilla, Boom*, MBF21. dehacked, bex, dehextra" and "Helion supports decorate/ZDoom specials. However, it is partial and implemented up to a point to support Vanilla, Boom, and MBF21. If a wad includes both dehacked and decorate, the dehacked will be used by default as it's currently more stable." It isn't supposed to be compatible with GZDoom proper own stuff, no. If some stuff that is supposed to be compatible like Boom doesn't work properly, I guess they will try to fix it as people report it. I understand the idea is for the gameplay to be exactly the same and be 100% compatible with Boom/mbf21, even if the code behind for gameplay logic processing is totally reworked.
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Oct 12, 2023 10:19
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drrockso20 posted:Give it a couple more years and they'll want another version for the next big anniversary, hopefully this time they'll do it as a singular package instead of needlessly splitting them up My hope is for an Atari 50 style documentary/celebration release. I know the development history of the game is well known to us all by now across various column inches, books and interviews, but I still think a curated “museum” tour of Doom would be great. They could celebrate the timeless and endless nature of it by further involving the community and expand on the current “Add Ons” by packing in a much wider variety of the best wads. Atari 50 is such a unique and brilliant approach to the celebration and preservation of gaming history. Doom deserves the same treatment rather than just more re-releases.
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Oct 12, 2023 10:39
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Turin Turambar posted:Oh noes. What I'm gonna do without software renderer... in the year of the lord 2023. A lot of maps and render behaviors rely on the specific way Doom's software rendering works, as by design the floor and ceiling planes don't clip sprites. Boom maps (and Kdikdizd) notably have a trick where they create transparent floors by lowering transparent/dithered textures walls into the floor. Plus there's the whole business of sprites being designed to clip below the floor to be perspective correct. Almost all hardware renderers in Doom ports clip the floors and ceilings due to zbuffering, breaking these.
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Oct 12, 2023 10:51
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Arivia posted:Honest question: what is there for Nightdive to do that the Unity port doesn’t do already? IDSPISPOPD But for real, the Unity ports are just fine 
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Oct 12, 2023 11:03
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Rocket Pan posted:A lot of maps and render behaviors rely on the specific way Doom's software rendering works, as by design the floor and ceiling planes don't clip sprites. Boom maps (and Kdikdizd) notably have a trick where they create transparent floors by lowering transparent/dithered textures walls into the floor. Plus there's the whole business of sprites being designed to clip below the floor to be perspective correct. whatever happened to the sw approach gooberman was taking that was, as I recall, insanely fast is there a reason that couldn’t be merged into gzdoom?
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Oct 12, 2023 13:09
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Arivia posted:Honest question: what is there for Nightdive to do that the Unity port doesn’t do already? I doubt NightDive would charge by the install
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Oct 12, 2023 13:29
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Tim Thomas posted:whatever happened to the sw approach gooberman was taking that was, as I recall, insanely fast GZDoom has like 20 years of features and cruft bolted on to the classic software renderer that mean just copy-pasting Goober's renderer over isn't really possible, but I believe dpJudas reimplemented a few of the concepts shortly after Rum & Raisin's release? Honestly, a lot of the performance issues in GZDoom is less due to BSP rendering/polygonization (which, granted, is a gross brute-force hack that could do with some extra grace but that requires a lot of boring tedious work that nobody's quite worked themselves up to do yet) and more due to processing all the individual actors, which are now scripted instead of fast native code and have like ten times more stuff they need to check due to all the modding functionality. Only way to really fix that would be to rip modding features out wholesale, and nobody wants that.
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Oct 12, 2023 13:30
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The Kins posted:The Switch tablet itself does though, so theoretically it should be possible to do that. Dunno anything about Unity console dev though, so not sure how feasible that is with whatever they're using for gamepad input. Rocket Pan posted:I see you haven't played any of our ports on Switch.
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Oct 12, 2023 13:30
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The Kins posted:
Yeah, I feel any decent graphics programmer can do a fast Doom engine with modern hardware, the 'challenge' is to do one that still allow for great modding features and it's properly back compatible with many thousands of wads, done in different styles (vainilla, boom, etc).
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Oct 12, 2023 14:09
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I gotta say Turbo Overkill is losing me a bit. I spent about an hour fighting Ripper, a genuinely good and climactic boss fight where I felt I was getting better with each attempt - and immediately after that I have to fight Maw who from what I've seen so far is the complete opposite of that. The flow of the game just completely halts.
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Oct 12, 2023 15:57
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I'd love to ask some questions but they'd literally be spoilers lol But yeah in an attempt to make the game epic they just go on and on.
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Oct 12, 2023 16:09
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anilEhilated posted:I gotta say Turbo Overkill is losing me a bit. I spent about an hour fighting Ripper, a genuinely good and climactic boss fight where I felt I was getting better with each attempt - and immediately after that I have to fight Maw who from what I've seen so far is the complete opposite of that. The flow of the game just completely halts. Milo and POTUS posted:I'd love to ask some questions but they'd literally be spoilers lol I will sing Turbo Overkill's praises, but if I had to offer up any criticism that persists weeks after I stopped playing it, it would be the game's length. I've said it before but it's far too long, and a few of the final multi-phase boss fights feel like they'd be right at home in a JRPG. In retrospect, my only recommendation is to put the game down periodically and come back to it a day or two later when you're feeling refreshed. In my opinion, TO's content is solid, there's just so goddamned much of it.
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Oct 12, 2023 16:34
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Civvie enjoys a Christmas classic for this festive holiday season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKVFpkKsNw
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Oct 12, 2023 17:39
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Arivia posted:Honest question: what is there for Nightdive to do that the Unity port doesn’t do already? If anyone's going to do a black box open-source reimplementation of the entirety of the Boom featureset, it would be Nightdive.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:17
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This is from three years ago but I happened upon it today, the start of Half-Life 2 in the Quake engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnnHDDoiN8 Some details on how this mad lad did it in the video description.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:40
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NecroVision is so weird. Last time I tried to play I got pretty constant BSODs and never figured out if it was the game or my hardware at the time, I should give it another shot even tho it's not great.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:42
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Didn't it have one of those nasty "this game will run at infinite FPS if you don't cap it and cook your hardware" problems or am I thinking of something else.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:47
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John Murdoch posted:Didn't it have one of those nasty "this game will run at infinite FPS if you don't cap it and cook your hardware" problems or am I thinking of something else. I definately had temp issues with that game and had to cap the fps by myself at the time. That and the constant crashing made me quit shortly after starting the 2nd half of the game.
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Oct 12, 2023 19:12
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I definitely had enough fun with it to beat it, but it doesn't seem to have aged too well - even then it was a janky FPS that got carried by its cheesy promise and constant escalation. It is one hell of a power trip once you get that multiplier going, though.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:02
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Necrovision strikes me as a game that could really do with a remake to take the core concept of "a horde of monsters crawl out of the underworld to make the hell of WWI even worse and you gotta brawl your way thru them" and make it actually work, especially since it seems like they could do much better in today's post-Doom-2016 FPS landscape.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:09
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Doctor Bishop posted:Necrovision strikes me as a game that could really do with a remake to take the core concept of "a horde of monsters crawl out of the underworld to make the hell of WWI even worse and you gotta brawl your way thru them" and make it actually work, especially since it seems like they could do much better in today's post-Doom-2016 FPS landscape. Heck, pare it down to one monster and take away the brawling and it suddenly sounds like Amnesia: The Bunker.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:06
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Tim Thomas posted:whatever happened to the sw approach gooberman was taking that was, as I recall, insanely fast The Kins posted:Gooberman's approach is its own port now, a Chocolate Doom fork called Rum & Raisin Doom. Some of it is now in Eternity (I'm unsure if the transposing is in but the striped multithreading is), and he implemented basically the whole approach in Rise of the Triad Ludicrous Edition.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:25
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Rocket Pan posted:Some of it is now in Eternity (I'm unsure if the transposing is in but the striped multithreading is), Oh I wasn't aware, I have to try it.
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Oct 12, 2023 23:01
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Rocket Pan posted:Some of it is now in Eternity (I'm unsure if the transposing is in but the striped multithreading is), and he implemented basically the whole approach in Rise of the Triad Ludicrous Edition. nice, I should replay heartland and give it a shot! Re zscript: is there some sort of pre compilation that can be performed, or is the system so much footgunning that trying to optimize is a fool’s errand
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Oct 12, 2023 23:21
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Milo and POTUS posted:This here is one of my biggest problems with the game, I have absolutely no idea what you mean. The levels all just run into one another and don't have nearly the requisite identifying character they should have. It feels like they attempted something like Half Life but whiffed it entire. Like say what you will about on a rail but you know when it starts and also when it's over. Hell I can't remember how long it's been since playing a runthrough (it may even have been this year, I'm pretty sure I did Blue shift), but I could run through huge chunks of the game right now in my head. And for a build engine game, that honestly feels like a mortal sin. Rather the levels be short, sweet and discrete. I actually really liked Ion Fury but yes, absolutely one of the biggest problems. The Zones/Campaigns do have definite identities but aside from "that one that's the base" and "that one that's doing Half-Life outdoors + caves" I couldn't really tell you which was which or identify specific parts of them. Similarly the weapons definitely work really well in context of play, but without a heavy artillery/rocket option and a screwy voodoo doll/shrink ray/cryo-gun option the arsenal doesn't really groove beyond "that was functional and punchy."
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Oct 13, 2023 00:06
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The Kins posted:
Which is why Selaco is pretty exciting, they have levels absolutely flooded with actors and yet, the drat thing performs well. They did a lot of much needed engine fuckery for performance reasons. If I say anymore they'll send someone to take me out though.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:36
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mind the walrus posted:Similarly the weapons definitely work really well in context of play, but without a heavy artillery/rocket option and a screwy voodoo doll/shrink ray/cryo-gun option the arsenal doesn't really groove beyond "that was functional and punchy." I'm glad that Aftershock at least added a sci-fi weapon that basically behaved as a BFG-Plasma-Rifle and proved itself quite useful in deleting basically anything you used it against short of the large mechs, because it was something I felt was sorely lacking in the base game.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:14
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Turin Turambar posted:Oh I wasn't aware, I have to try it. Tim Thomas posted:nice, I should replay heartland and give it a shot! Worth noting, it's not on by default. There is a "Render threads" option in page two of the video options that controls it, best results are to set it to the number of real cores (i.e not hyperthreaded) your CPU has. If you have a modern intel with E and P cores, this value should stick to the number of P cores you have as Eternity doesn't (can't?) use E cores. We haven't figured out a good way to automate the default for this yet. Tim Thomas posted:Re zscript: is there some sort of pre compilation that can be performed, or is the system so much footgunning that trying to optimize is a fool’s errand It is precompiled, I believe even into native x86. The issue is it's still not part of the actual executable so the scripts have to be called into/out of to run and fetch results, which has overheads. Plus zscript won't have 50 years worth of C machine code optimizations. This normally wouldn't be an issue (we use AngelScript for some Kex projects, notably Turok and Blood, and it works a similar way) but they also made zscript run basically the physics as well. It's doing way too much of the work, and that work is still the same as its old workload where it has >128bits worth of flags controlling branched behavior and such. There is an adage somewhere that you should never write your own language. Zscript is this example. Rocket Pan fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 02:08
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