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celewign posted:Why do people say this? They have never once taken such a stance or asked for peaceful integration. They just repeatedly say they want to kill all Jews. Ever since the foundation of Israel, which was an act of Britain. We know it because israel had a much less violent bargaining partner in Fatah and nevertheless actively schemed to replace them with Hamas in order to justify their ongoing genocidal campaign.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:07
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 02:13
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If we look at the West Bank Palestinians, it seems like being peaceful just means being genocided and displaced slowly.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:14
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I will say it again: if you're more concerned with babies being murdered in a particularly brutal and immediate fashion than you are of babies dying due to a lack of clean water, or because power was cut off, or because the building they were in got blown up, you're missing the loving point in a big way. Yes, Hamas's actions were reprehensible. Israel's actions in response are no less so. If there's such a thing as Hell, the IDF and Hamas will surely meet each other there. More realistically, they can share cells at the Hague, as far as I'm concerned -- you could make an extremely dark sitcom about it.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:18
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PT6A posted:I will say it again: if you're more concerned with babies being murdered in a particularly brutal and immediate fashion than you are of babies dying due to a lack of clean water, or because power was cut off, or because the building they were in got blown up, you're missing the loving point in a big way. That’s how the vast vast majority of humans are wired, and that’s how the legal system works in most countries. If you do a drive by shooting on your mafia rival, miss them, and kill their neighbor’s kid riding a bike, that is seen as vastly different as if you are John Wayne Gacy, even if in both cases a completely innocent person is willfully killed. Yes the perpetrator is a monster who will go to prison in both cases, but one of them will get out of prison at some point and the other won’t. Specifically targeting children is seen as much worse as semi-accidentally targeting children. It is unfortunate that people will have to do the math of "how does 500 kids killed in a drive by compare to 50 John Wayne Gacys?" Personally I wouldn’t support either one of them, but they’re definitely not identical.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:32
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celewign posted:Why do people say this? They have never once taken such a stance or asked for peaceful integration. They just repeatedly say they want to kill all Jews. Ever since the foundation of Israel, which was an act of Britain. You say this like Hamas have been the ruling body from the beginning, like the Hamas policy has been the Palestinian policy from the start. That is just not true. Israel is not bombing or have been bombing Palestine for decades because of Hamas, they do it because they are in the way, Hamas is just an excuse. Also the whole thing just doesn't make sense if you just look at the power difference, this is a very 2000s war on terror talking point where we have to beat the terrorists or they take over the country... somehow.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:35
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yeah big "oh the world learned nothing from 9/11" energy going on right now. Netanyahu calling it an act of mighty vegeance speaks volumes. vengeance famously begets, uh, nothing, right?
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Oct 12, 2023 02:39
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alf_pogs posted:yeah big "oh the world learned nothing from 9/11" energy going on right now. Netanyahu calling it an act of mighty vegeance speaks volumes. vengeance famously begets, uh, nothing, right? Neocons learned something
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Oct 12, 2023 02:41
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alf_pogs posted:yeah big "oh the world learned nothing from 9/11" energy going on right now. Netanyahu calling it an act of mighty vegeance speaks volumes. vengeance famously begets, uh, nothing, right? I can't quite remember but I think there was a story about this in the bible.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:41
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Saladman posted:That’s how the vast vast majority of humans are wired, and that’s how the legal system works in most countries. If you do a drive by shooting on your mafia rival, miss them, and kill their neighbor’s kid riding a bike, that is seen as vastly different as if you are John Wayne Gacy, even if in both cases a completely innocent person is willfully killed. Semi-accidentally? The bombs Israel has dropped on Gaza are all guided precision weapons. When you bomb a house in residential neighbourhood with a 2000lb bomb you are aiming it at children and choosing to murder them. They are identical, but one is less visceral because the aftermath you see is a picture of rubble.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:43
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Saladman posted:That’s how the vast vast majority of humans are wired, and that’s how the legal system works in most countries. If you do a drive by shooting on your mafia rival, miss them, and kill their neighbor’s kid riding a bike, that is seen as vastly different as if you are John Wayne Gacy, even if in both cases a completely innocent person is willfully killed. Bullshit comparison, in my opinion. To make it remotely comparable, the first example would have to be changed to "you set a bomb under your mafia rival's car, knowing it will go off as they drive their kid to school." Because Israel killing Palestinian children isn't really an accident or an error on any level. They know what will be the fruit of their blockade of Gaza, they know what will happen when they level an apartment building or a hospital, and they choose to do it. They have decided just as surely as any Hamas militant, to kill a child. Why should you or I or anyone else care how the deed is done?
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Oct 12, 2023 02:46
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 02:49
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I think a lot of people, when they see a building getting bombed, subconsciously only see it as that - a building getting bombed. If they don't see the bloody bodies of children strewn about the rubble, it's easy for them to just pretend that they don't exist. And the death, disease, and misery that follows is even more abstracted away. Bombing campaigns by the US and Israel are sanitized in this way, and they use euphemisms to further disguise the carnage like "precision munitions" (which just means that they don't veer wildly off course and destroy a different building that is also filled with civilians) or the infamous "door knocking" tactic.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:01
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Ja has a pretty good view on everybody weighing in https://www.tmz.com/2023/10/11/ja-rule-drake-dj-khaled-dj-vlad-israel-hamas/
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Oct 12, 2023 03:13
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fool of sound posted:Do you think that the ANC in South Africa shouldn't have used car bombs? Shouldn't have attacked embassies and government workers, or whites who lived near and used black townships for cheap labor? Do you think that, without those attacks, the white lead government would have relented on their own, or that other nations would have been sickened enough by their death squads to begin breaking economic ties with them? Do you earnestly believe that there is a peaceful path to liberation for Palestine, given Israel's unwillingness to negotiate with them in good faith and near constant interference in their elections? fool of sound posted:To simplify a great deal of history, I’ll begin by saying that most of the ANC and related organization major attacks were focused on military, paramilitary, police, government, or industrial targets. In this context I think paramilitary and police forces shouldn’t count as civilian but nevertheless quite a lot of civilian government or industrial workers were killed, especially white civil or business administrators. Additionally, they “indiscriminately” killed quite a few whites, plus fellow black people who were seen as supporting the apartheid government. fool of sound posted:Did you skip over the part where I said they also killed a lot of unrelated white people? More than 20k people died just from direct fighting, and a lot of them were not combatants. Parts of their strategy were a deliberate terror campaign, and was called as such by international media. I can't pretend to know what exactly Hamas is thinking, but I suspect their goals aren't that different than the ones I outlined. I see your brain is so hosed up you're actually defending deliberate murder of civilians, but you clearly have no loving idea what the anti-apartheid struggle consisted of in my home country and instead of equivocating the work of the ANC with Hamas you can keep the taste of their name out of your retarded loving mouth you bitch made piece of poo poo. How the gently caress you didn't get permaed for saying you support Hamas's methods shows this site is a complete shitshow. Feel free to give me my martial law 24 hours or whatever the gently caress, I'll correct this bullshit record and be done with the thread In the interest of giving a (more) accurate record, the ANC never indiscriminately killed "quite a few whites" especially not unrelated. In the 34 years between Sharpeville and the end of apartheid about 1500 whites were killed, almost all military or police (and while police aren't usually combatants, in the context of the situation I think it's fair to consider them as so). Almost all deaths in their struggle was black people, either being killed by pro apartheid forces or by other black factions. I'll note here that I make a distinction between whites and blacks who for whatever reason cooperated with the apartheid government, because attacks on those blacks didn't do poo poo to pressure the government to end apartheid, NP didn't give a gently caress if they died. And the violence infamously played right into the NPs hands! The entire justification those fuckers used was that there was no uprising against apartheid, it was all just out of control internecine warfare amongst the blacks and we whites, the glorious defenders of human decency had to crush it forcefully in order to protect them! Secondly, those weren't even the goals of the armed struggle. The ANC leadership explicitly undertook it because they were getting sidelined by PAC after Sharpeville and they felt shedding their commitment against violence would give them credibility. Then it became a tool to exercise control over the means of an attack (which still mostly consisted of destruction of property). Becoming ungovernable wasn't done by attacks on whites! It was done by strikes, work stoppages, constant protests/rioting, and sabotage of infrastructure. Actions like Port Elizabeth were utterly crippling to the white economy and all those white petit bourgeoisie who were happy when SAP was gunning down people in the townships were screaming at the government to meet the demands of the blacks within a year. As for marshalling international support, the ANC attacks did nothing for that. International observers watched as protestors and rioters were gunned down, police beat the poo poo out of people for such crimes as walking while black, the Koevoets massacred their way across SW Africa, and the government hauled journalists off to jail for violations of ridiculous censorship laws. The negotiations in the 80s weren't because of violence against white people (and if you think Botha was entering negotiations because black police informants and the like were getting killed, lmao). South Africa was crushingly isolated. We had troops fighting across southern Africa and a brutal occupation of now-Namibia, and starting in the late 70s it was illegal for any country to sell arms to South Africa. The economy was crippled by disinvestment and the internal economy which was subject to large scale boycotts, sabotage actions, strikes and work slowdowns couldn't take up the slack while the government was hemorrhaging money shooting up protestors. The national debt was defaulted on in the mid-80s. Barnard took it on himself to talk to Mandela seeing it as the only way to save the country while Botha was screaming about how he'd never give in to the blacks while comparing himself to Ceasar and centralizing power in himself. With or without those attacks the NP would never have abandoned apartheid, the attacks did gently caress all except harden the resolve of the government and discredit the anti-apartheid parties in the opposition. The NP abandoned apartheid because the country was literally falling apart from work stoppages, crippling sanctions, and economic crisis. The other nations were absolutely sickened by what was being done, ironically in the occupied territories. The vast majority of bombings of government installations were symbolic bombings of empty buildings- destroying the symbols of apartheid. Even in the 80s when the more notorious bombings happened, the ANC vowed that they would not target civilians, just that they couldn't guarantee lack of collateral damage. As for attacking random whites who lived near townships, this was never a strategy used by the ANC. They might get in shootouts with the cops, but they didn't run around murdering people in their homes. gently caress *I* was a white who lived near a township and my parents probably used blacks as cheap labour and believe it or not, I'm not posting as a loving ghost. The closest analogy to the attack last weekend would be SADF and its "special forces" who did open fire on unarmed partygoers, murder people in their homes, etc. What does all this mean for Palestine? Who knows. The Palestinians deserve freedom and rights, including the right to not be incinerated in Gaza, the same as anyone else even if a small group of them committed an atrocity. A reasonable person could argue that the situation in Palestine is different than South Africa and so different strategies have to be employed. As an example, the involvement of churches was an important prong of the ANC strategy, which goes over well in western countries where involvement of mosques makes westerners wary. Algeria might be more instructive for Palestine and that from what I think I know involved a lot more military actions. But stop running your mouths about how the ANC totally ran from house to house murdering left and right because you think embracing it makes you sound like a hard manly man making hard choices instead of some effeminate liberal who doesn't have what it takes to end apartheid. It just makes you a loving idiot and a pervert besides. For anyone who is actually curious about the ANC tactics here's some links. Like I said, I don't know that there's valuable lessons for Palestine https://www.sahistory.org.za/sites/default/files/Non-violent%20action%20against%20apartheid%2C%20by%20Zumes.pdf https://as.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu-as/faculty/documents/Terror_Antiapartheid_Struggle.pdf https://academic.oup.com/past/article/245/1/221/5580560 mannerup posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing for one of the particular tactics used during that time Brief note: White people weren't necklaced. This was a tactic used against black people who, rightly or wrongly, were thought to be informants and the like. And again, the NP didn't give a gently caress about those people except as an excuse to crackdown on other blacks. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 12, 2023 03:19
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Saladman posted:Specifically targeting children is seen as much worse as semi-accidentally targeting children. There are credible reports of Israel just dumping white phosphorus on entire neighborhoods. None of this is accidental, and you should disabuse yourself of that notion. Not that it matters, because bombing civilian centers is already horrific. There's 2 million people in Gaza and almost none of them are terrorists. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 12, 2023 03:21
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Fister Roboto posted:I think a lot of people, when they see a building getting bombed, subconsciously only see it as that - a building getting bombed. If they don't see the bloody bodies of children strewn about the rubble, it's easy for them to just pretend that they don't exist. And the death, disease, and misery that follows is even more abstracted away. Bombing campaigns by the US and Israel are sanitized in this way, and they use euphemisms to further disguise the carnage like "precision munitions" (which just means that they don't veer wildly off course and destroy a different building that is also filled with civilians) or the infamous "door knocking" tactic. Yes, exactly so. And I think the Western media is very complicit in this, because we spend a lot more time interviewing the poor fucker who looks like us, and his grandma was kidnapped by Hamas, than we do the guy whose child is in hospital because he can't find safe drinking water and their home was destroyed by a precision bomb, or the mother whose son is in "administrative detention" without charge for security reasons. I've said this at least once, but it all comes down to who we identify with. The answer is: we should identify with all of these hypothetical people, because we are linked by our common humanity, and that is the most important thing. No matter what, we must force ourselves to never forget that. We must make ourselves uncomfortable by learning to identify with those not on "our side." It cuts both ways of course; Norman Finkelstein has said some things I think are a bit beyond the pale, on the basis that he identifies with the Palestinian cause as an analogue to what his parents went through in Nazi extermination camps. I don't think that's great either, I think it's led him to be callously indifferent to the innocent victims of Hamas's attack. Now, we can also talk about the propaganda machine of the Israeli state and how it feeds into this. Birthright tours are so important to the state, because when something like this happens, they want every Jew to react on a visceral level and think "it could have been me!" The honest truth is: if you refuse to visit a country that practices Apartheid, and commits genocide, then it could never have been you, because you would not have been there. PT6A fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 03:22
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Also worth pointing out that the median age in Gaza is 18. There's a very high probability that anyone who dies in an IDF missile strike is a child.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:26
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PT6A posted:Bullshit comparison, in my opinion. To make it remotely comparable, the first example would have to be changed to "you set a bomb under your mafia rival's car, knowing it will go off as they drive their kid to school." Because Israel killing Palestinian children isn't really an accident or an error on any level. They know what will be the fruit of their blockade of Gaza, they know what will happen when they level an apartment building or a hospital, and they choose to do it. They have decided just as surely as any Hamas militant, to kill a child. Why should you or I or anyone else care how the deed is done? Israeli methods is "send a jet to bomb a school when a hamas fighter takes their kid there, regardless if the fighter is actually there or not, and then claim that the older kids were hamas recruits.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:51
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 03:55
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If Harold Feld's analysis is correct, this is going to be an very bad war:quote:I think I begin to see Hamas' strategy and their fundamental error. They may have suffered what is known as a catastrophic success.
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Oct 12, 2023 04:51
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Why should we be focusing on a facebook post by the VP of an IP nonprofit?
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Oct 12, 2023 05:02
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Dopilsya posted:Becoming ungovernable wasn't done by attacks on whites! It was done by strikes, work stoppages, constant protests/rioting, and sabotage of infrastructure. Actions like Port Elizabeth were utterly crippling to the white economy and all those white petit bourgeoisie who were happy when SAP was gunning down people in the townships were screaming at the government to meet the demands of the blacks within a year. As for marshalling international support, the ANC attacks did nothing for that. International observers watched as protestors and rioters were gunned down, police beat the poo poo out of people for such crimes as walking while black, the Koevoets massacred their way across SW Africa, and the government hauled journalists off to jail for violations of ridiculous censorship laws.
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Oct 12, 2023 05:09
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Discendo Vox posted:Why should we be focusing on a facebook post by the VP of an IP nonprofit? Maybe not. But this correlates to this report as well: https://twitter.com/fedtanyl/status/1712003238411592136
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Oct 12, 2023 05:18
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Nothing I've seen suggests this was a 'small scale attack for a few hostages', there were hundreds of fighters sent out with plenty of ammo and explosives to get into shelters. The paragliders also seem useless in this scenario but would be excellent to place fighters on escape routes that large groups of people from a concert you're attacking may be using.
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Oct 12, 2023 05:34
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Yeah it seems overkill for an operation where they were expecting to only kill a couple of soldiers and take a couple of hostages.
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Oct 12, 2023 05:39
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I could certainly buy that it succeeded far beyond their expectations but yeah whatever they were planning it clearly was intended to be a significant operation
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Oct 12, 2023 06:07
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Of the two narratives -They planned this for two years (from a Russian interview with hamas itself - https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/12/hamas-mastermind-guest-kiley-pkg-ac360-hnk-vpx.cnn) -They only meant for a little terrorism and oops (from speculation) I'm going with believing them. It's not like they operate in ambiguity, there's an entire telegram channel showcasing the handiwork they self-publish Releasing 150-200 hostages and handing over the leadership would go a long way toward de-escalation, but that would require this to be a fight over occupation and not extermination of Israel by all means, so they won't. e: I forgot, the ruins of old settlements in gaza are used as training grounds for attacks on real villages, which is showcased in their recent propaganda videos. I have trouble believing that they didn't train to decimate civilian targets when they show that off themselves. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-months-old-training-videos-foreshadowed-deadly-assault/ zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 06:35
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From this stream that someone linked earlier it seems like israel has started ramping up the strikes. not looking good
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Oct 12, 2023 06:47
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist By December 1941, the United States was already in an undeclared shooting war with Germany in the North Atlantic. Throughout the year, the United States had gradually been ramping up their activities and cooperation with the British to safeguard convoys, and had even occupied Iceland to relieve the British forces that had taken over after the invasion of Denmark. The US Navy was escorting convoys, patrol aircraft were searching for U-Boats and relaying their positions to British ships, and Roosevelt had even ordered the battleships New Mexico, Idaho, and Mississippi to the Atlantic from the Pacific Fleet, as well as the aircraft carrier Yorktown and a number of smaller ships. In May, a U-Boat sunk an American merchant ship in the Caribbean, and in September one took a shot at the destroyer USS Greer. In response, Roosevelt ordered the Navy to shoot U-Boats on sight, and in an incident near Iceland a group of US Destroyers began dropping depth charges onto a wolfpack and one, the USS Kearny, was hit by a torpedo in response. On October 31st, the USS Reuben James was sunk by a U-Boat with the loss of 100 members of her crew. While this was going on, the United States was rapidly ramping up its military capabilities and strength. The Two-Ocean Navy Act had been signed in 1940, and had instigated a massive influx of shipbuilding that would enable the Navy to fight in both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Both the Detroit Tank Arsenal and the Willow Run Bomber Plant broke ground in 1940, and would eventually become two of the single most important factories to the war effort — the DTA constructing over 25,000 tanks (Over a quarter of the total produced by the US throughout the war) and Willow Run constructing over 8,000 B-24 Liberators (nearly half the total built). The Selective Service Act was also signed in 1940, establishing the first peacetime draft in US history. Part of the reason why it took so long for the US to enter the war was that our military capabilities had been grossly inadequate. No new battleships had been commissioned between 1923 and 1941, the Army's tanks were few and mostly obsolete, and in 1939 the size of the US Army was smaller than that of Portugal's. Time and money were both needed to create a force that actually could fight if needed, and money was hard to come by as there was still substantial opposition in Congress towards getting involved in another European War — which in the late 1930s had resulted in a series of Neutrality Acts that made it extremely difficult for combatants to purchase arms from the United States. The Fall of France is what kicked things into high gear, though — once it became clear that Nazi Germany actually could come to rule Europe the reins on the Congressional pocketbook came off. And once Roosevelt won an unprecedented third term in 1940, he was free to push the US further and faster towards direct involvement in the war against Germany. Of course, the ultimate irony is that the US never did declare war against Germany — in the aftermath of the attack on Pearl Harbor, Adolf Hitler was the one that decided to take the gloves off and go all-in. It is sort of an open question how much longer it would have taken for the US to declare war against Germany after December 7th, since for obvious reasons all the attention was now on Japan. But there's no doubt that it would have happened eventually, and once the US did enter the war it quickly established that defeating Germany was its first and highest priority.
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Oct 12, 2023 06:50
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VideoGameVet posted:If Harold Feld's analysis is correct, this is going to be an very bad war: I don't think there's anything particularly interesting or insightful in Feld's analysis. Which isn't surprising, given that he's an FOIA lawyer turned anti-copyright lobbyist. It's a mixture of poo poo other sources had already said and stuff Israel would very much love for us to think. For example, he says that "a good portion of the world" is actively cheering on Hamas' atrocities. That's a claim I've seen quite a few people repeat, despite the fact that countries all over the world are condemning the attacks and pledging full support to Israel. I'm sure we could start debating the exact specifics of "good portion" and "cheering" and start counting tweets and protests from one side or the other, but I don't think it's really based in fact at all. Rather, it's a fairly common perspective among extreme nationalist movements: the idea that the group can't really count on anyone outside the group, not even its supposed allies, and therefore must be given free reign to commit whatever extreme acts it feels is necessary to thoroughly crush The Enemy and establish self-sufficiency. His repeated comparisons to the Second Intifada completely baffle me, because he seems to be presenting that as a massive success story for Israel, and that's just wildly inaccurate. If Israel was winning half as hard as he suggests, then Israel wouldn't have offered so many concessions to end the intifada. It really feels to me like he's getting his info from a very pro-Israel source, and thus his analysis is the kind of thing I'd expect to see from a propagandist.
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Oct 12, 2023 06:54
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I'm sure the people who live in a giant prison constantly getting bombed and shot don't understand the idea of an existential threat, definitely
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Oct 12, 2023 06:58
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I think he means that Hamas doesn't understand that Israel views it this way. Which I highly doubt - they are literally right there since always and it's ridiculous to suggest they'll be following Israel less closely than some American journalists. I'm sure they know the Israelis well enough.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:01
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Acebuckeye13 posted:By December 1941, the United States was already in an undeclared shooting war with Germany in the North Atlantic. Throughout the year, the United States had gradually been ramping up their activities and cooperation with the British to safeguard convoys, and had even occupied Iceland to relieve the British forces that had taken over after the invasion of Denmark. The US Navy was escorting convoys, patrol aircraft were searching for U-Boats and relaying their positions to British ships, and Roosevelt had even ordered the battleships New Mexico, Idaho, and Mississippi to the Atlantic from the Pacific Fleet, as well as the aircraft carrier Yorktown and a number of smaller ships. In May, a U-Boat sunk an American merchant ship in the Caribbean, and in September one took a shot at the destroyer USS Greer. In response, Roosevelt ordered the Navy to shoot U-Boats on sight, and in an incident near Iceland a group of US Destroyers began dropping depth charges onto a wolfpack and one, the USS Kearny, was hit by a torpedo in response. On October 31st, the USS Reuben James was sunk by a U-Boat with the loss of 100 members of her crew. One of the biggest failures of this current situation for me is the folks that survived the nazi era/holocaust being kidnapped or killed by a second group of people calling for their extermination in one lifetime. We (humanity) failed them. e: since everything needs a source, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/09/holocaust-survivor-wheelchair-gaza-israel-hamas-war/71122480007/ zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 07:02
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I mean, the opening line is that Palestinians don't understand what an existential threat is; I don't think there's really any need to probe any deeper.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:05
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kiminewt posted:I think he means that Hamas doesn't understand that Israel views it this way. Which I highly doubt - they are literally right there since always and it's ridiculous to suggest they'll be following Israel less closely than some American journalists. I'm sure they know the Israelis well enough. On the other hand, living next to someone or even being at war with them has historically not been a barrier towards wildly misunderstanding their motivations or morale.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:05
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Acebuckeye13 posted:On the other hand, living next to someone or even being at war with them has historically not been a barrier towards wildly misunderstanding their motivations or morale. The "righteous" indignity of countries not bordering an "existential threat" as it's been referred to often, has never really made much of a mark on israel though if we're being real. They cared if the largest ally supported their actions or not, and now they have their own 9/11 to point to that ensures they do. e: To be fair, if say a country like Russia tries to denounce you for human rights violations you'd probably ignore that too after you got done dying from irony poisoning zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 07:16
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Probably stupid conspiratorial thinking, but given how unprepared Israel was, and with multiple parties, saying they told him, this might actually be a case where the bad fascist man did let a terrorism happen. It's certainly good for Bibi's power, which is all he cares about.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:23
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Jaxyon posted:Probably stupid conspiratorial thinking, but given how unprepared Israel was, and with multiple parties, saying they told him, this might actually be a case where the bad fascist man did let a terrorism happen. It's certainly good for Bibi's power, which is all he cares about. This keeps coming up, and it's not clear that it's true. Netanyahu appears poised to take the blame for failing to respond to the attack. It is a vanishingly unlikely conspiracy theory that he, and his security apparatus, deliberately "let a terrorism happen".
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Oct 12, 2023 07:35
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:51 |
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Discendo Vox posted:This keeps coming up, and it's not clear that it's true. Netanyahu appears poised to take the blame for failing to respond to the attack. It is a vanishingly unlikely conspiracy theory that he, and his security apparatus, deliberately "let a terrorism happen". I really believe he's going right under the bus when this is settled, but I'm in the minority there. And to be fair, bush jr got a second term, so I see where the thought is coming from
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Oct 12, 2023 07:36
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