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Royal Revenants are the toughest fuckers with like zero lore at all. Maybe I'll be more motivated to fight them and not nope the gently caress out if you give me a clue what they are!
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Oct 12, 2023 00:48
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Get swarmed by dog, use my leap and butt stomp weapon art. Preparation is the greatest stat.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:48
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Epic High Five posted:as Heal will stagger them and take over half their health, setting up a 2nd cast which will kill them. Yer wot ?!
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Oct 12, 2023 10:36
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Kobal2 posted:Yer wot ?! And any Heal over Time incantation will turn into Damage over Time against Revenants. giZm fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 11:17
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giZm posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwXbdZG_Tz0 I'm just... in awe. Is there ANY indication in the game that this is the case ? Any at all whatsoever ? Who found that poo poo out ?! Also, WHY ?!
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Oct 12, 2023 12:42
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It's a pretty common thing in fantasy roleplay that heals hurt the undead. Revenant means "animated corpse".
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Oct 12, 2023 12:47
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Kobal2 posted:I'm just... in awe. There’s a merchant note that tells you They’re undead which is the fluff reason. But then again it doesn’t work on other undead Come to think of it, are they undead? They resist holy. And you don’t find them with regular undead, only solo or with the wraith caller guys who look like kid size versions of them skasion fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 12:48
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..btt posted:It's a pretty common thing in fantasy roleplay that heals hurt the undead. Revenant means "animated corpse". Heal on *them*. Not on yourself. Like, it would be one thing if that AoE regen miracle thingy hosed them, but "LOOK UPON MY HEALING MINETH OWN HITPOINTS, AND DESPAIR (also die)" is on a whole 'nother level. Kobal2 fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 13:01
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skasion posted:Come to think of it, are they undead? They resist holy. And you don’t find them with regular undead, only solo or with the wraith caller guys who look like kid size versions of them Undead have always been murky in Souls ; but I'm... not sure they are ? They're not part of Those That Live In Death anyway (but also, YOU are not, and yet you're very much undead ? Or are you not ? There's a whole taxonomy to decrypt (ha!) there)
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Oct 12, 2023 13:07
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I think most of the heals are actually aoe, I imagine if you use one that only targets you it doesn't happen? I don't know, From games aren't exactly big on consistency...
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Oct 12, 2023 13:09
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..btt posted:I think most of the heals are actually aoe, I imagine if you use one that only targets you it doesn't happen? I don't know, From games aren't exactly big on consistency... The mainline healing incants are all AOE, even the slow heal-over-time ones, so you can heal your allies. Urgent heal and bestial vitality are the only spells I can think of that heal you and only you. And they do nothing to revenants afaik. Kobal2 posted:Undead have always been murky in Souls ; but I'm... not sure they are ? They're not part of Those That Live In Death anyway (but also, YOU are not, and yet you're very much undead ? Or are you not ? There's a whole taxonomy to decrypt (ha!) there) The tarnished are living dead in the sense that they died in the outside world in the presence of Grace (as shown in the opening cutscene—Hoarah, Gideon, and Dung are all dead, Goldmask is lying down for a nice dirt nap, and Fia appears to be on the verge of getting lynched for necrophilia). They then returned to the Lands Between (somehow or other. The game glosses over this. I’d like to believe they were ferried across the sea by tibia mariners) and began to live again with the guidance of grace, which guides them to seek the Elden Ring and become Elden Lord, resurrecting them repeatedly if they happen to die in the process. Like the resurrection of Those Who Live In Death, this resurrection seems to go against the principles of the Golden Order. They don’t seem to work quite the same way though. The tarnished seem firmly on the “living” side of “living dead”. Maybe this reflects that the fate of the tarnished was established directly by Marika and the Erdtree at the height of her power, whereas the TWLID curse is more like the hosed up accidental consequence of burying people in the roots of an Erdtree polluted by the Prince of Death. As to how this pertains to revenants…really hard to say since as pointed out above the game barely explains them. they don’t visually resemble TWLID. Their magical portals are gold where all the bony undead magic is white/silver. They are apparently worshipped by the wraith callers (Wraith Calling Bell description) and their magic seems to resemble the black-and-gold wraiths (which the Omen Bairn description implies are the angry spirits of mutilated dead omen babies 😬). They’re also described as accursed, which is frequently how omens are described as well. So are they like corpses that got the omen curse and grew more limbs instead of horns? Seems like a reach. Besides which, neither omens nor wraith callers are affected by heal at all. Idk it’s a mess. Feels like they repurposed a grafted enemy design without coming up with new fluff for it.
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Oct 12, 2023 14:12
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skasion posted:SNIP On top of that, there's Ranni. Who is really a doll/puppet that she (?!) uses to interract with the world, her actual physical presence having been obliterated long ago ; so even though she's *really* dead-dead. And then she turns into another doll, but you revive YET ANOTHER thing that is... is it a doll ? Or her old body ? It *looks* like it's her original body because it's sitting right next to the Fingers she killed originally ; but also her burnt out corpse is lying atop Liurnia Tower ? It's confusing. But wait, there's more. Sellen. OK so the Sellen you first meet is like a psychic projection she's manifesting away from her body which is really shackled down south. Fine. But ALSO the whole time she's been a puppet of Seluvis. It's not very clear what a puppet *is*, but the word itself (and Seluvis' quest, and the behaviour of other puppets of his you can find in the world) implies they're just bodies that happen to be animated by him to do his mindless bidding. Yet he needs to keep the "original copy" in his creepy basement for Reasons. But if you follow Sellen's quest, you shift her soul from her actual body, which taking it away from kills, into her puppet body. At this point, is she undead ? Realive ? What ?! I also don't really understand how she immediately goes from "thank you ! NOW that you've killed everything in the way, I can reign supreme and turn Liurnia around !" into a mass of wizzard masks gibbering in a corner that Rennala (whomst you've very very killed previously) doesn't acknowledge in any way. From a gameplay standpoint, sure, you want players to be able to access your designated respec function no matter what ; but it's still a very abrupt thing, at absolute odds with the explicit TEXT of the game so far, all with ZERO explanation. But anyway, back to the topic : is Sellen undead ? And if so, when does she become so, *exactly* ?
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Oct 12, 2023 14:32
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Kobal2 posted:On top of that, there's Ranni. Who is really a doll/puppet that she (?!) uses to interract with the world, her actual physical presence having been obliterated long ago ; so even though she's *really* dead-dead. And then she turns into another doll, but you revive YET ANOTHER thing that is... is it a doll ? Or her old body ? It *looks* like it's her original body because it's sitting right next to the Fingers she killed originally ; but also her burnt out corpse is lying atop Liurnia Tower ? Oh I thought Sellen was an ally of Seluvis and that he was making a puppet body for her like he did for Ranni.
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Oct 12, 2023 14:38
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Kobal2 posted:Heal on *them*. Not on yourself. Like, it would be one thing if that AoE regen miracle thingy hosed them, but "LOOK UPON MY HEALING MINETH OWN HITPOINTS, AND DESPAIR (also die)" is on a whole 'nother level.
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Oct 12, 2023 14:48
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Kobal2 posted:I also don't really understand how she immediately goes from "thank you ! NOW that you've killed everything in the way, I can reign supreme and turn Liurnia around !" into a mass of wizzard masks gibbering in a corner that Rennala (whomst you've very very killed previously) doesn't acknowledge in any way. From a gameplay standpoint, sure, you want players to be able to access your designated respec function no matter what ; but it's still a very abrupt thing, at absolute odds with the explicit TEXT of the game so far, all with ZERO explanation. This actually isn't immediate if you do it in what I think was the "intended" order. You can have Sellen usurp Liurnia very early on, before following up on her side-quest to find Lusat and Azur. In practice I think many people end up doing it the other way around (I certainly did) but if not, she takes over, she has a ton of dialogue about investigating the Primeval Current, thanks you and promises you her support, and then once you've done everything she's asked, been rewarded, and come back one more time she's a gumball and Rennala is back.
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Oct 12, 2023 14:56
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I’ve been watching Cowboy’s walk through and am pretty sad that hoarfrost stomp got nerfed. What’s the latest and greatest AOE skill? I’m just starting out but willing to travel.
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Oct 12, 2023 15:48
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Hoarfrost Stomp is still good, it just isn't "stand in place and spam it to effortlessly defeat every boss in the game" good.
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Oct 12, 2023 15:51
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a primate posted:I’ve been watching Cowboy’s walk through and am pretty sad that hoarfrost stomp got nerfed. What’s the latest and greatest AOE skill? Butt slam comes early and cheap. And its a butt slam. Its next to one of the minor erdtrees in Limgrave.
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Oct 12, 2023 16:33
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I haven't found an AoE skill I enjoy using more than just spamming attacks with something with a wide swing animation, especially some running attacks cover a massive area because you keep moving while swinging Most skills are dangerously close to wizardry, wizard bad, pointy stick good The storm skill where you just helicopter your weapon around is acceptable
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Oct 12, 2023 16:42
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Wait, where are you being eaten alive by huge packs of dogs but Torrent isn't available? Just hoof it away from them. Also Sellen isn't a puppet at first, my understanding is that Seluvis is a big ole creep who makes puppets of people, then something something magic potion their soul gets put into the puppet. IIRC, the only character you see out and about that is also a puppet (aside from Sellen once you transfer her over) is the lady at the Radahn festival you get the polite bow emote from and even that's not 100% confirmed. Dyz posted:Butt slam comes early and cheap. I'm reasonably certain there's a bug tho where once you beat Radahn the beetle is just gone. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 17:09
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Though now that I go digging it turns out all that puppet business is one big rabbit hole and nobody really knows or agrees on what it all is. My assumption has been the Chucky style soul stuffed in an artificial body thing because that's how Ranni works. But she's also very clearly piggybacked onto a doll and not a perfect lifelike simulacrum so  I guess my issue is that the alternative, that a bunch of minor NPCs were puppets all along or I guess conveniently get got by the time you reach the Three Sisters, feels like a strangely severe yet otherwise unremarked twist to just throw in with no consequence or payoff to it. I'm also thrown off cuz I always give Dung Eater the potion AND kill him for his armor but apparently him or Nepheli show up in the dungeon after getting the potion. But presumably you can't damage or kill any of the deactivated bodies... Sellen is really what throws it all off. She's as concretely somewhere else as she can be despite already having a puppet body. Could've also sworn there's a few other "wishful thinking" puppets down there too, but my memory is for poo poo and nobody seems to have catalogued them. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 17:21
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John Murdoch posted:Also Sellen isn't a puppet at first, my understanding is that Seluvis is a big ole creep who makes puppets of people, then something something magic potion their soul gets put into the puppet. IIRC, the only character you see out and about that is also a puppet (aside from Sellen once you transfer her over) is the lady at the Radahn festival you get the polite bow emote from and even that's not 100% confirmed. Her summon has the same name as one of the puppets you can buy from Seluvis. Seluvis is a dollfucker, his dialogue (in addition to his prize puppet being in his bedchamber) makes that fairly clear, with all his talk of paramours, predilections, loving, and cherishing. The end goal of his Amber Draught plot is to "sport with Lady Ranni." He made an artificial puppet body of Sellen, presumably because she knows what his deal is and would never drink a potion she knew he was involved with, but he still wants her.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:44
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Paracelsus posted:Her summon has the same name as one of the puppets you can buy from Seluvis. I'm aware, what I'm questioning is whether who you meet at the festival is the puppet or the actual woman. Or if that's even a clear distinction.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:54
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Paracelsus posted:Her summon has the same name as one of the puppets you can buy from Seluvis. It is not a puppet of Sellen, it is a random witch he picked up and turned into a puppet. She has a different face from Sellen, though you can't see that without hacking. We are just getting confused because those 2 are the only people in the lands between wearing the female version of the Liurnia school uniform. Seluvis was absolutely loving that puppet, though.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:04
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Yeah, having dug through the dialogue (because I'm not going to reinstall the game just to run CSI on a pervert's sex dungeon, jfc) Sellen compliments her new body as being "young and full of energy" rather than like, y'know, "wtf I'm a robot now" so that seems to settle it that the puppet bodies are indeed the actual victims. At best (  best), Seluvis did his whole puppet routine on someone else and then dressed them up as Sellen.
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Oct 12, 2023 18:20
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Haven’t played since like March, but I’m getting that itch again. However, I’m having an internal debate because it sounds like Shadow of the Erdtree May release in February and I don’t want to play for a few months now and then not feel like playing when the dlc drops.
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Oct 12, 2023 19:57
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Elden Ring: There's a whole bunch of lore about those sex dolls.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:03
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John Murdoch posted:Wait, where are you being eaten alive by huge packs of dogs but Torrent isn't available? Just hoof it away from them. I was getting annoyed by a bit in the poison castle - there's a bait knight you can see slowly making his rounds on a plaza at the end of a small corridor atop wooden stairs, but if you touch him or make any noise three dogs instantly rush you from nowhere. No Torrent.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:03
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Kobal2 posted:I was getting annoyed by a bit in the poison castle - there's a bait knight you can see slowly making his rounds on a plaza at the end of a small corridor atop wooden stairs, but if you touch him or make any noise three dogs instantly rush you from nowhere. No Torrent. Star Caller Cry
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Oct 12, 2023 21:10
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Kobal2 posted:Heal on *them*. Not on yourself. Like, it would be one thing if that AoE regen miracle thingy hosed them, but "LOOK UPON MY HEALING MINETH OWN HITPOINTS, AND DESPAIR (also die)" is on a whole 'nother level.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:19
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Kobal2 posted:I was getting annoyed by a bit in the poison castle - there's a bait knight you can see slowly making his rounds on a plaza at the end of a small corridor atop wooden stairs, but if you touch him or make any noise three dogs instantly rush you from nowhere. No Torrent. I usually try to pull them through the doorway, sometimes down the stairs. Sometimes even across the bridge depending on my luck.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:29
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Bisse posted:The heal is an AOE, even says so in the description, like, that’s its main purpose, to use on your summons. So I don’t see this as farfetched at all, and easier to figure out than many other secrets in the game. The one thing I agree on is, why does it work only on this particular undead. If Holy deals like 10x damage to skeletons then this aoe heal should as well. I'm ambivalent about the whole thing but I'll also throw in that in my experience every single revenant spawn has a message that says "try healing" nearby.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:50
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Kobal2 posted:Undead have always been murky in Souls ; but I'm... not sure they are ? They're not part of Those That Live In Death anyway (but also, YOU are not, and yet you're very much undead ? Or are you not ? There's a whole taxonomy to decrypt (ha!) there) Here's how I understand it: Death doesn't exist in the Lands Between anymore, not in the straightforward sense. People who die or who you kill eventually are reborn, but it's immortality without youth, so most npcs have lost their minds as a result. Tarnished have been touched by the grace of the erdtree, so you 'enjoy' the true immortality that Godfrey's armies used to have in the distant past. As long as you don't give up, you keep going. For everyone else, instead of dying, you're supposed to now return go to one of the catacombs and be fed into the greattree roots and eventually be reborn, but that's been broken too. Enter deathroot. No one can die permanently, but deathroot lets someone 'live' in a deathlike state, without sensation and therefore without pain or suffering, but the Golden Order hates it.
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Oct 12, 2023 23:33
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John Murdoch posted:I'm ambivalent about the whole thing but I'll also throw in that in my experience every single revenant spawn has a message that says "try healing" nearby. I assumed that meant "there's a monsterfucker that's going to pop into existence here, you should be a full health for this" 
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Oct 13, 2023 01:32
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VictualSquid posted:Seluvis was absolutely loving that puppet, though. In retrospect, that makes trolling him by sending him the Dung Eater instead of Nepheli all the funnier. There's a good chance he fucks him anyway, tho.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:37
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Bisse posted:The heal is an AOE, even says so in the description, like, that’s its main purpose, to use on your summons. So I don’t see this as farfetched at all, and easier to figure out than many other secrets in the game. The one thing I agree on is, why does it work only on this particular undead. If Holy deals like 10x damage to skeletons then this aoe heal should as well. the way I imagine it is that it *is* actually healing the revenant, but since they're a contorted mass of limbs it's healing over, like, all the weird holes and cracks and dislocations that make their anatomy even possible and fucks them over
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Oct 13, 2023 15:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYV4QLEBkwo here's what they look like under the robes
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Oct 13, 2023 15:52
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revenants aren't even properly undead mechanically, so there's presumably something in their cut backstory that would've explained it
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Oct 13, 2023 15:53
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I always thought they were part of Godefrey's grafting experiments given the one you find in Stormveil and them generally just being a hugely grafted together pile of bodies.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:57
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Zore posted:I always thought they were part of Godefrey's grafting experiments given the one you find in Stormveil and them generally just being a hugely grafted together pile of bodies. neither him nor grafted scions are similarly damaged by healing, so they're meant to be their own legally distinct flailing limb monster
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Oct 13, 2023 15:59
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