[Ukraine] ahegao to the poles

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] ahegao to the poles

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Total:	404 votes

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euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I mean i suppose they could put 3 carrier groups in the Black Sea but I don�t think that would go well

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:41

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:55

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

euphronius posted:

they just had to acknowledge that Ukraine was in Russias SOI, or at least acknowledge ukriane was not in Americas SOI and that diplomacy had to be used. oh well

The US can't acknowledge SOIs beyond their own anymore, at least not in the long run. Due to TRPF, capitalism must always expand and any countries not within the western periphery must be brought into it, otherwise capitalism runs out of space to expand and begins falling apart. Capitalism's inherent function demands that SOIs must be broken.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:46

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Turkey letting US navy warships sail through the Bosporus right now would definitely be taking a stance.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:49

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

VoicesCanBe posted:

Yeah I agree with this, and NATO will never admit it but I think behind closed doors they're starting to realize it.

i applaud your optimism

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:49

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

VoicesCanBe posted:

Ukraine's use was always only as a weapon to weaken Russia. There was never any concern for the country or population beyond that.

Initially, the West had a stretch goal of Putin's government collapsing mostly due to sanctions, but that stretch goal never materialized and the sanctions have frankly made a minimal impact at best. Now the gameplan is for Russia to grind itself down while very slowly and very painfully achieving victory in Ukraine. Russia will "win" the war in the long run, but there's going to be a significant price for it. And sure, Ukraine is being destroyed in the process. But that's fine for the west.

Looking at reporting prior to and during the vaunted Ukranian offensive, it's clear that the West considered it one last shot at changing the calculus of the war. Maybe Ukraine could dislodge Russian positions just enough to scare them away. Maybe Russia would go home with its tail between its legs, including abandoning Crimea. Then Ukraine could be fully incorporated into the Western periphery, ripe for exploitation.

That was always a pipe dream, and I'm pretty sure the west knew it. But hey, it's Ukraine paying the cost, so why not roll the dice and see what happens? But it's over now, it's obvious that Russia will not be dislodged short of direct NATO intervention. And that is a fight NATO does not want right now, not at all.

So we're entering the beginning of the end. The war will continue, possibly for years. Ukraine will not negotiate, nor will they be permitted to by their western backers. Russia will have to earn it, no matter how long it takes to achieve their goals.

A country destroyed by geopolitical marksmanship.

It seems kind of stupid though considering the Russian economy is better than it was at the start of the war and they are going to get a bunch of territory out of it.

The Russians lost some equipment, they can make some more and all honesty I don�t think NATO is going to be able to push them around in the same way again.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:11 on Oct 12, 2023

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:51

supersnowman: Oct 3, 2012

euphronius posted:

I mean i suppose they could put 3 carrier groups in the Black Sea but I don�t think that would go well

What can be reloaded faster? SM-2 missiles in VLS on US cruisers/destroyers or ASM on TU-22M3 to launch missile at the carrier group?

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:58

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

Joe Biden got on the horn with hamas and was like �I need you to 9/11 this Israeli rave so I can wiggle out of this Ukraine obligation �

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:02

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

i would say Russia maybe, and the rest of the non-western world, learning that the west is absolutely insane and not to be trusted makes the war absolutely worth it for Russia. It also drove Russia into the arms of China. If that holds up then that's a big win for non-western geopolitics.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:13

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

VoicesCanBe posted:

Ukraine's use was always only as a weapon to weaken Russia. There was never any concern for the country or population beyond that.

Initially, the West had a stretch goal of Putin's government collapsing mostly due to sanctions, but that stretch goal never materialized and the sanctions have frankly made a minimal impact at best. Now the gameplan is for Russia to grind itself down while very slowly and very painfully achieving victory in Ukraine. Russia will "win" the war in the long run, but there's going to be a significant price for it. And sure, Ukraine is being destroyed in the process. But that's fine for the west.

Looking at reporting prior to and during the vaunted Ukranian offensive, it's clear that the West considered it one last shot at changing the calculus of the war. Maybe Ukraine could dislodge Russian positions just enough to scare them away. Maybe Russia would go home with its tail between its legs, including abandoning Crimea. Then Ukraine could be fully incorporated into the Western periphery, ripe for exploitation.

That was always a pipe dream, and I'm pretty sure the west knew it. But hey, it's Ukraine paying the cost, so why not roll the dice and see what happens? But it's over now, it's obvious that Russia will not be dislodged short of direct NATO intervention. And that is a fight NATO does not want right now, not at all.

So we're entering the beginning of the end. The war will continue, possibly for years. Ukraine will not negotiate, nor will they be permitted to by their western backers. Russia will have to earn it, no matter how long it takes to achieve their goals.

A country destroyed by geopolitical marksmanship.

Yeah, that's basically my view. Sure the end result is that Russia is gonna grab a bunch of land, but if there's one thing that Russia already has loads of it's land. On the other hand, there are some side effects that seem pretty bad for the West as a whole, like the sanctions failing pretty spectacularly and being very publicly unable to run military production at anything approaching war time levels. But on the whole they'd do it again, I'd say.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:16

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

The post war order is far from settled yet. The future seems very uncertain even a year or two from now.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:20

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Ukraine is land to the West of them though...which is a bit more useful, and I don't think all that some of the best farmland in the world is going to be useless in the future. It has very little to do with Putin, who if anything was on the edge of being forced to take a bad deal due to his f'up, and that the US simply refuses to ever give an inch so they are forced into a position of having to give a mile.

If anything, it probably wouldn't be bad for the Russian for it to go on a year or so longer just to ramp up economic output.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:28

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Russia is going to come out of this war with the only battle tested modern army on earth. Do you think they just call it a day or press their luck?

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:29

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Nix Panicus posted:

Russia is going to come out of this war with the only battle tested modern army on earth. Do you think they just call it a day or press their luck?

Even after this thing, there is probably something that is going to go down in Moldova and the Caucasus, who knows if Russian regulars will be involved, but I don't think the story is over.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:33

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Russian officials: "we'll settle this on the field of battle"

Russian military industry continues to increase outputs

Westerns: "Maybe they'll just go away?"

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:34

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Yeah thats what Im thinking about. Once you go through all the effort of building up a domestic military industrial complex it doesnt seem like theyre just going to shut it all down again

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:37

dk2m: May 6, 2009

what I�m curious about is what Germany will do if it becomes politically viable to talk about Nord Stream. does it just get swept under the rug forever? because that�s a pretty big smoking gun to use as leverage to walk away from this, especially with the world distracted

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:50

double nine: Aug 8, 2013

lol if russia commits to a joint large-scale infrastructure project with europe in the next 50 years.
if there is a new nord stream (there won't) it'd get payed 100% out of german pocket

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:55

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

I watched the Putin blueberry hill video a few weeks ago and I've been listening to the fats domino version almost every day since. what a hit!

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:57

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

mawarannahr posted:

I watched the Putin blueberry hill video a few weeks ago and I've been listening to the fats domino version almost every day since. what a hit!

Ralph mouth and potsie Webber would sing that when they were all horned up

# ? Oct 12, 2023 17:48

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

genericnick posted:

Wasn't the 6k figure something like an upper bound?

This article from a year ago says they were firing 5,000 to 6,000 a day and had just about depleted their Soviet stock.

This one from April of this year says 6,000 to 8,000 a day.

supersnowman posted:

They were probably digging in whatever stock they had left because 6000 per day is 180 000 per month and they are not receiving that.

The article that says 2,000 to 3,000 a day notes the US has shipped 2 million artillery rounds. That would be enough for 6,000 a day for 11 months. This looks to be the end of the line for that kind of support.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:00

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Ardennes posted:

It seems kind of stupid though considering the Russian economy is better than it was at the start of the war and they are going to get a bunch of territory out of it.

The Russians lost some equipment, they can make some more and all honesty I don’t think NATO is going to be able to push them around in the same way again.

I always have to laugh (ok, cry) here in the UK, when I hear our politicians proudly talking about the sanctions regime imposed on Russia, and then I compare Russian growth and Russian inflation to the UK equivalents.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:12

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Regarde Aduck posted:

i would say Russia maybe, and the rest of the non-western world, learning that the west is absolutely insane and not to be trusted makes the war absolutely worth it for Russia. It also drove Russia into the arms of China. If that holds up then that's a big win for non-western geopolitics.

Our rulers honestly come across as decadent to me. They keep starting poo poo they can't finish (Afghanistan, Ukraine and now Palestine) and then just kind of getting bored and distracted and wandering away from the consequences.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:15

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Pistol_Pete posted:

I always have to laugh (ok, cry) here in the UK, when I hear our politicians proudly talking about the sanctions regime imposed on Russia, and then I compare Russian growth and Russian inflation to the UK equivalents.

Your island is deliberately trying to commit suicide though

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:16

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

euphronius posted:

I mean i suppose they could put 3 carrier groups in the Black Sea but I don�t think that would go well

I don�t think turkey has any interest in ending the montreux convention

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:38

Blaisedell: May 7, 2008

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:41

dk2m: May 6, 2009

Pistol_Pete posted:

Our rulers honestly come across as decadent to me. They keep starting poo poo they can't finish (Afghanistan, Ukraine and now Palestine) and then just kind of getting bored and distracted and wandering away from the consequences.

this is the part that always bothers me. the west squandered the 90s by taking advantage of the chaos that came after the fall. putin himself is a direct product of shock therapy and the misery that followed. between all the ethnic tensions that happened after minority Russians suddenly found themselves in a foreign country and the encouragement of nationalism by encouraging and funding what were fringe groups, Eastern Europe and the balkans still hasn�t recovered.

there was truly a time when Russian leaders not only accepted the West, but actively listened to our ideas and tried to reform their whole way of life according to our recommendations. that was so disastrous because of how we took advantage of their vulnerability instead of genuinely creating a global apparatus that could have accommodated their interests.

our leaders now don�t have any of the foresight and understanding of the world beyond whatever niche technocratic consulting/business role they had before becoming one. guys like sunak is the epitome of that, a Goldman Sachs guy that is now in charge of a nuclear arsenal.

if your whole life, you�ve been a corporate raider and trained to think in a zero sum way where there can be only winners and losers, the world inevitable becomes a more dangerous place where compromises aren�t possible. that�s how you can have the hubris to tell a state to not take a peace deal because our might will surely overpower the enemy, only for us to shrug and say well, it must be you guys and not us for why this isn�t working

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:48

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

The American boot is firmly planted on the necks of Japan and Germany and they do as they're told.

Maybe they really could force Russia to obey, if only they had some military bases planted on their soil.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:56

antipattern: Nov 8, 2019

Blaisedell posted:

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:01

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

One weird trick to avoid being beholden to a colonial empire: don't let them build military bases on your soil

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:15

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1710738102946271587#m

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:16

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Nix Panicus posted:

Yeah thats what Im thinking about. Once you go through all the effort of building up a domestic military industrial complex it doesnt seem like theyre just going to shut it all down again

Erm. Who�s going to tell him?

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:27

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

Nix Panicus posted:

Russia is going to come out of this war with the only battle tested modern army on earth. Do you think they just call it a day or press their luck?

Maybe not actively, but you can bet that next time the US tries to wave its dick around geopolitical hotspots it'll be facing top of the line Russian hardware.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:32

Psycho Society: Oct 21, 2010

genericnick posted:

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1710738102946271587#m

death eaters!!

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:32

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Nix Panicus posted:

Your island is deliberately trying to commit suicide though

lol our rich people pissed and poo poo on everything until even they couldn't stand it. They could just gently caress off to wherever but i guessed they're too depressed for that so they're just going to run this place into the ground

absolutely don't understand what all the rich aspirational types are doing here, all their evil schemes would get them even more profit in the US. It can't be the landscape, they're slowly ruining that too and covering all the beaches in human poo poo

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:36

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Freezer posted:

Maybe not actively, but you can bet that next time the US tries to wave its dick around geopolitical hotspots it'll be facing top of the line Russian hardware.

Russia is pretty tepid about this compared to the Soviets. Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and Iran should be rocking T-90s, BMP-3s and whatever those bigger MiG-29s are, not just the Gulf States and Algeria (and South Korea) which can afford them.

There was a hope for a Greater Britain, and true Commonwealth, and as Tankbuster knows, I am having a hard time with all the blood spilled for your upper class to just let the torch passed to them fall from their hands.

Vitai Lampada indeed.

If we had one Glubb Pasha we could free Palestine tomorrow.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:41 on Oct 12, 2023

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:37

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

It has to be in part because of the output of the Soviet industry.

Russian wasn't producing as much military hardware so there probably was less surplus for export.

Maybe things will change now.

But also Russia is ran by a bunch of capitalists. That's why they're doing capital investment in Iran instead of just exporting domestic goods to foreign markets.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:42

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

Frosted Flake posted:

Russia is pretty tepid about this compared to the Soviets. Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and Iran should be rocking T-90s, BMP-3s and whatever those bigger MiG-29s are, not just the Gulf States and Algeria (and South Korea) which can afford them.

There was a hope for a Greater Britain, and true Commonwealth, and as Tankbuster knows, I am having a hard time with all the blood spilled for your upper class to just let the torch passed to them fall from their hands.

Vitai Lampada indeed.

If we had one Glubb Pasha we could free Palestine tomorrow.

Well, the Ukraine war is still ongoing, not like they can give out stuff right now. But when North Korea or Iran are in the crosshairs again in a few years, they'll likely have the Russians supporting them.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:44

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Frosted Flake posted:

Russia is pretty tepid about this compared to the Soviets. Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and Iran should be rocking T-90s, BMP-3s and whatever those bigger MiG-29s are, not just the Gulf States and Algeria (and South Korea) which can afford them.

I think the PRC is going to end up silently supply them with their export equivalents. Brazil's getting new tanks and ifvs from them.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:49

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Brееgе Timе Z�ZZ🇷🇺 posted:

_{(Click thumbnail to open video)}

Blinken: "I came to you not only as the US Secretary of State, but as a Jew. My great-grandfather Meir Blinken fled from the pogroms in Russia"

Blinken forgot to clarify that his grandfather fled from the Jewish pogroms in Kiev in 1904.

That is, Kiev and Ukraine are Russia.

Ok

_{(from t.me/breege_time_20zz/26633, via tgsa)}

Thank you comrade Blinken.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:02

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:55

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

Freezer posted:

Maybe not actively, but you can bet that next time the US tries to wave its dick around geopolitical hotspots it'll be facing top of the line Russian hardware.

or not, putin is extremely cagey and won�t give away anything without complete control of the situation or people involved

i remember the last time they were giving out free buks there was an international airline disaster

# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:11

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