What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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🦋 | 15 | 3.71% | |
🦇 | 115 | 28.47% | |
🪰 | 12 | 2.97% | |
🐦 | 67 | 16.58% | |
dragonfly | 94 | 23.27% | |
🦟 | 14 | 3.47% | |
🐝 | 87 | 21.53% | |
Total: | 404 votes |
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Didn't seem to stop the Iran deals. He probably changed his mind on a couple of things over the past 2 years.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:14 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 02:29 |
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Nix Panicus posted:Your island is deliberately trying to commit suicide though Plus hurting themselves by refusing to trade with others is clearly a fetish at this point.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:26 |
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Jel Shaker posted:or not, putin is extremely cagey and won’t give away anything without complete control of the situation or people involved Remember how fast airlines stopped flying over Russia in 2022 to be sure they would not "support Russia" with airspace usage fee? Pretty fast compared to stopping flying airliners over a conflict zone where planes are actually getting shot out of the sky.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:04 |
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dk2m posted:there was truly a time when Russian leaders not only accepted the West, but actively listened to our ideas and tried to reform their whole way of life according to our recommendations. that was so disastrous because of how we took advantage of their vulnerability instead of genuinely creating a global apparatus that could have accommodated their interests. Its the worst that relations have been in my memory. The bridge is very much burnt and I'm not sure there is any willingness to work together for at least a generation. Probably more. The pivot to the east is well underway. I suppose it was inevitable. My only question at this point is how long Europe will tolerate following the hegemony's orders before cutting its own deals with Russia. VoicesCanBe posted:A country destroyed by geopolitical marksmanship. This was always the outcome, no matter which side wins. Of course suggesting an end to the conflict in the west was anathema until more recently.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:09 |
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seeing a couple of people i know get short, sharp lessons on who's on whose side, and who's in solidarity with whom re: ukraine and palestine has been funny
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:13 |
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BULBASAUR posted:Its the worst that relations have been in my memory. The bridge is very much burnt and I'm not sure there is any willingness to work together for at least a generation. Probably more. The pivot to the east is well underway. I suppose it was inevitable. Never underestimate the Russian urge to throw away their country for the approval of Western liberals.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:13 |
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poppin in to say lol at the thread title gw
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:16 |
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Bar Crow posted:Never underestimate the Russian urge to throw away their country for the approval of Western liberals. There's also those that see Trump as their guy, for obvious reasons.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:16 |
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Russia has never been as Americanized as it is right now. Don't know how that influences relations in the future, but it would actually take work to roll the clock back to the 90s.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:18 |
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Bar Crow posted:Never underestimate the Russian urge to throw away their country for the approval of Western liberals.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:25 |
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Buck Wildman posted:poppin in to say lol at the thread title gw
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:26 |
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Buck Wildman posted:poppin in to say lol at the thread title gw new war, who this?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:32 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:you have no idea how happy this question made me as I ran over to my bookshelf to pull out my copy of When Titans Clashed One minor correction, you seem to be conflating Second Guards Cavalry Corp with (units of) the Second Tank Army. The quote you provided doesn't involve the former being attacked although it seems like they were withdrawn around the same time as the latter. Glantz here also places Second Guards Cavalry Corp as fighting for Siedlce not in it, which may seem like a minor difference until you look at a rail map (below). https://tankfront-ru.translate.goog/ussr/kk/gvkk02.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_sch=http posted:August 20, 1944, by Directive of the Supreme Command Headquarters No. 302007 dated August 20, 1944, the corps was transferred from the troops of the 1st Belorussian Front to the command of the commander of the 3rd Ukrainian Front. The transfer by rail was to take place from Brest from 18.00 on August 26 to the area of the station. Separate no later than September 12. There's also something about all the armies in the area bar the Second Tank Army being redirected to take the Bug crossings north of Warsaw sometime in early August, which has played into the 'Stalin abandoned the Warsaw uprising' claims, but as you say, military necessity.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:50 |
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Nix Panicus posted:This is why Ukraine lost the war a long time ago. Even if they somehow prevail militarily and regain all of their lost territory the country is still in debt beyond what it can ever hope to repay, especially with its war ravaged economy and losses in labor, and the absolute best case scenario is permanent thralldom to western capital. Well you could argue the best case scenario is becoming part of Russia. Lostconfused posted:But also Russia is ran by a bunch of capitalists. That's why they're doing capital investment in Iran instead of just exporting domestic goods to foreign markets. A bit of economic development in Iran makes sense from a geopolitics perspective. Their economy is in the toilet and supporting it enough for the current government to stay in power makes sense.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:50 |
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ЗеРада posted:🔥 Fortetsia Avdeevka - military aspect
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:07 |
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I am conflicted. Between the two sides, I'd rather Ukraine maintained its sovereignty than Russia be allowed to annex all or part of Ukraine. They should be allowed to join NATO and the EU if that is the preference of their public or stay independent. I say this acknowledging that the US, who is Ukraine's primary ally didn't respect the sovereignty of Latin American countries such as Cuba who preferred to be communist or some degree of socialist. I don't think Russia had a right to invade, even to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO or the west in general. I think this invasion is a travesty and that Ukrainians are being murdered by Russian conquest. But I am deeply disturbed by the Nazi symbols and neo-Nazi units and apologist for Nazis. I don't believe that Ukraine should be expected to be a perfect victim and in the event that the US was invaded by space aliens, it would probably be survivalist chuds, who I don't like very much, who would do a lot of the fighting. It is not merely a matter of convenience and maximizing what is available for the war effort. From the extent of the usage of these Nazi symbols and the presence of memorials to Nazis in Ukraine and in Ukrainian communities, there is a deeply entrenched historical revisionism wrapped up in Ukrainian culture that frames the nazis as liberators from the Soviet Union and could lead to more antisemitism. I am also uncomfortable with the bloodlust or calling Russians "orcs." That leads to some dark places. We have to think about the next war too. This is a serious problem because while the US arms Ukraine and assists in the war, let's suppose the US and Ukrainians win and get everything they want. They drive the Russians out. Russia lets Ukraine go. Who are the people celebrated as heroes then? Are they the people with black suns and swastikas? What do they do next? The US has an ugly history of arming monsters, to screw over the Soviet Union or Russia only for those monsters, once the war is over to be set upon the world. Those guns we are giving Ukrainian Nazis don't just cease to exist when the war is over. The people in charge of the new Ukraine could be the Nazis we armed. They could turn the country into a military junta. We need to be more careful and judicious about this. I don't want Russia to win but as someone who would never join the military, I cannot condone sending our military in to any conflict that I myself would not fight for. I also do not think that Russia should be capitulated to as it would only be a matter of time before they demand something else and invade. So I am not sure what should be done. But I am very concerned about the way this is being covered, about the way that people are being censored on social media for being "pro-Russia" or for being "misleading" when they are against the prevailing narrative. I believe that questions about Ukraine are questions that reasonable people acting in good faith can disagree on without being labeled as Russian bots or Russian agents. Ukraine does have a Nazi problem. (tbf, so does Russia and most other western countries including America) There is no objective scoreboard so someone should make a reasonable case for why Russia is winning without being banned for misinformation. The pentagon and .gov sites are not objective. They are not golden tablets handed down from the creator of the universe and should not be treated as automatically objectively true. There can be objectively true reports that contradict .gov sites and US based media. I feel bad for any kids growing up in this mess. I feel bad for the noncombatants and maybe I even feel bad for Russian conscripts who would rather not be in Ukraine. This is a tragedy.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:14 |
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Looked up the IMF recommendation for Ukraine to collect more tax and, lol.Gavin Gray, head of IMF mission in Kiev, October 11 posted:the authorities should focus on strengthening the opportunities to collect revenues, both through taxes and customs duties. Kristalina Georgieva, Managing Director, IMF, October 12 posted:We have completed our first review in June with high marks for the actions of the Ukrainian authorities in raising revenues, collecting taxes. At that time, 36 percent of taxes to GDP. Dang, Gavin, what do you want, half the economy going to taxes coupled with the already slashed social spending?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:14 |
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Ukraine is a dictatorship under martial law. Nobody in charge gives a poo poo about what the people want.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:18 |
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Zoeb posted:words You do not in fact have to hand it to the chuds. They are far more likely to start killing people they don't like, look at Katrina. An individual with a ton of guns is not an effective combatant. Fighting requires organization and co-operation, as well as a willingness to subjugate yourself to the will of others. They would at best act like a small bunker to be avoided, or just shot from space or whatever because this is a fantasy.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:27 |
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Zoeb posted:I am conflicted. Ukraine lost it's sovereignty when America backed a nazi led coup in 2014. Regardless of all that, I'd suggest you focus on what's best for Ukrainian citizens, not the Ukrainian state. American foreign policy is almost universally deeply evil and it's a pretty good rule of thumb that it's goals should be opposed. As has just been discussed, the USA has no interest in preserving Ukrainian sovereignty but only seeks to weaken and isolate Russia.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:27 |
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Zoeb posted:I am conflicted. What do you say to the arguments that Ukraine had it's sovereignty taken from it in 2014 when a democratically elected government was stripped of power by a American backed coup and replaced with a puppet regime? Have you considered whether the majority of Ukrainians actually want to join the EU and NATO or is that just the will of the regime and their western backers? Do you think that the Russian majority areas of the country were entitled to exercise their own preference to break away from the state that turns against them and seeks to erase their culture and language?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:28 |
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Personally I would like the people of Eastern Ukraine to not be under the boot of a Ukrainian government that wants their culture removed from their borders
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:29 |
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Starsfan posted:What do you say to the arguments that Ukraine had it's sovereignty taken from it in 2014 when a democratically elected government was stripped of power by a American backed coup and replaced with a puppet regime? Have you considered whether the majority of Ukrainians actually want to join the EU and NATO or is that just the will of the regime and their western backers? I remember the Euromaidan protests. The former president was a crook and I can't imagine all of those people were CIA agents or otherwise on the payroll. There was legitimate and organic criticism of the Ukrainian government. The US probably benefited sure but they could not have made an impact at all had there not already been a pre-existing rejection of the government by the Ukrainian public.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:33 |
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The simplest moral position is that Ukraine surrenders as soon as possible to stop the ongoing loss of life. Ukrainian officials stated multiple times that they will ethnically cleanse the regions that are currently occupied by Russia if they ever get their way.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:34 |
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ContinuityNewTimes posted:Personally I would like the people of Eastern Ukraine to not be under the boot of a Ukrainian government that wants their culture removed from their borders but yes it's a shitshow and the only moral option was for peace. which the world's biggest power and owner of the petrodollar could have easily made happen if it wanted to. infact, it didn't want peace to happen and intentionally sabotaged peace efforts for a new proxy forever war
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:34 |
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Just popping in to say to the thread title
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:34 |
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Zoeb posted:I remember the Euromaidan protests. The former president was a crook and I can't imagine all of those people were CIA agents or otherwise on the payroll. There was legitimate and organic criticism of the Ukrainian government. The US probably benefited sure but they could not have made an impact at all had there not already been a pre-existing rejection of the government by the Ukrainian public. Then look at the votes cast for Poroshenko and Zelensky. How satisfied do those votes appear with the post Maidan government? What campaign promise did Zelensky run on?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:36 |
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Zoeb posted:I remember the Euromaidan protests. The former president was a crook and I can't imagine all of those people were CIA agents or otherwise on the payroll. There was legitimate and organic criticism of the Ukrainian government. The US probably benefited sure but they could not have made an impact at all had there not already been a pre-existing rejection of the government by the Ukrainian public. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4048494 edit: Even ignoring this (which you shouldn't, since it's the whole reason Euromaidan ended in a coup), the idea that "well there were some crowds of people protesting" implies anything about "The Will of the Ukrainian People" is laughable. It's the same bullshit reasoning that leads people to think that "The People of Cuba" oppose the government because some people did a protest. Ytlaya has issued a correction as of 22:38 on Oct 12, 2023 |
# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:36 |
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Lostconfused posted:The simplest moral position is that Ukraine surrenders as soon as possible to stop the ongoing loss of life. No. I am sorry. I simply do not agree with that position. The Russian invasion was a war crime and countries should not be invading or conquering each other anymore. It was wrong when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and it wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine. Lostconfused posted:Ukrainian officials stated multiple times that they will ethnically cleanse the regions that are currently occupied by Russia if they ever get their way. That would be very bad and should be opposed and prevented but I am not familiar with the statements you are talking about.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:37 |
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Lostconfused posted:Then look at the votes cast for Poroshenko and Zelensky. How satisfied do those votes appear with the post Maidan government? What campaign promise did Zelensky run on? What kind of crazy person are you to bring up important historical context instead of good old wholesome vibes?!
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:37 |
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Zoeb posted:I remember the Euromaidan protests. The former president was a crook and I can't imagine all of those people were CIA agents or otherwise on the payroll. There was legitimate and organic criticism of the Ukrainian government. The US probably benefited sure but they could not have made an impact at all had there not already been a pre-existing rejection of the government by the Ukrainian public. It's the same reason we invaded Iraq, Libya, etc. Saddam was trying to sell oil in euros before US invaded them, likewise Gaddafi was trying to sell oil outside the petrodollar and then we bombed him to smithereens shortly after quote:Speaking of designs, lets talk about Ukraine. Cause what they probably think of is Ukraine from 2014-on. Brave, embattled Ukraine. Maiden Square Ukraine. Fighting to be free. Huddled masses all using laptops to do revolutions. Lets talk about that Maiden revolution. Here's an interesting fact you might not know about the Maiden revolution. It had all it's infrastructure set-up before anything actually happened, before any protests started. The general way the protests were going to go, the general architecture of how this uprising was going to proceed, was all in place already. You want to know who put it in place?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:38 |
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I do acknowledge that there are things about the conflict I don't know and haven't heard about. All media sources commenting on the matter have a slant one way or another.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:40 |
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Zoeb posted:No. I am sorry. I simply do not agree with that position. The Russian invasion was a war crime and countries should not be invading or conquering each other anymore. It was wrong when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and it wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:41 |
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Hold on. I am reading what you posted.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:41 |
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Zoeb posted:I am conflicted. The west helped arrange a coup of the democratically elected president of Ukraine for the grave sin of not mortgaging his country to join the EU. Ukraine is a western client state, not a democracy. Crimea and the Donbas republics werent stolen by Russia, they defected. Both regions had overwhelmingly voted for the democratically elected president who got couped, and once it was clear Ukraine was not a democracy and did not want them represented they decided to leave and Russia offered protection. Ukraine has implemented several laws that discriminate against its ethnic Russian minority in the 2014-2022 interim. Russia launched its invasion two days after Zelensky, who had been elected on a platform of reconciliation with Russia, announced Ukraine was unilaterally withdrawing from the Minsk Agreement that governed the cease fire with the Donbas republics. This indicated a clear intent to invade the republics, which Ukraine had been bombarding for the last eight years in clear violation of the cease fire agreement to begin with. Ukraine has already drawn up plans for ethnically cleansing Crimea if they should ever conquer it, and no doubt have similar plans for the Donbas. Ukraine conquering the Russian annexed territories would be a travesty for the people who live there In short, gently caress Ukraine.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:41 |
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Nix Panicus posted:Crimea and the Donbas republics werent stolen by Russia, they defected. anyways the official CSPAM position is that war sucks and should have been resolved peacefully years ago. But America did not want a peaceful solution at all and has been actively sabotaging any peace: blood is on america's hands
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:43 |
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Zoeb posted:in the event that the US was invaded by space aliens, it would probably be survivalist chuds, who I don't like very much, who would do a lot of the fighting. Nah. Those idiots got their apocalyptic fantasy with Covid and immediately complained that Applebee's was closed.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:46 |
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Zoeb posted:I remember the Euromaidan protests. The former president was a crook and I can't imagine all of those people were CIA agents or otherwise on the payroll. There was legitimate and organic criticism of the Ukrainian government. The US probably benefited sure but they could not have made an impact at all had there not already been a pre-existing rejection of the government by the Ukrainian public. The former president was the winner of a democratic election. If the people disagreed with his actions they could simply elect someone else in a peaceful transfer of power.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:47 |
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Animal-Mother posted:Nah. Those idiots got their apocalyptic fantasy with Covid and immediately complained that Applebee's was closed. yeah that's true actually
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:47 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 02:29 |
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Xaris posted:anyways the official CSPAM position is that war sucks and should have been resolved peacefully years ago. But America did not want a peaceful solution at all and has been actively sabotaging any peace: blood is on america's hands I am new to this place. I wasn't familiar with an official CSPAM position but yeah I can agree with that in general but I don't think either side of this argument is flat-earth. I do think this is a debate where reasonable people acting in good faith can disagree and its not a matter of them being Russian assets or CIA assets. I'll have to consider what you have said. This contradicts most of the articles and media I typically read and watch.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:50 |