|
AxGrap posted:My understanding is that the Christian theology before hell was a fully formed idea was that if you don't act in accordance with God's will you will spend your eternity after death separated from God, and not like, totally blissed out like you would be if you were doing the right stuff. christian views on the afterlife are significantly more diverse than the 700 club crowd would have you think, partly because scripture is very nonspecific on the topic
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
I really liked CS Lewis growing up, and one of the theological questions I had as a kid that was never satisfactorily answered was something like "do people in uncontacted tribes go to hell?" To which my church answered yes, and that's why missionary work is so important. But Lewis wrote “But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangement about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.” basically saying that this unification with God could happen regardless of your relationship with the church, and was based on your closeness to something a little less defined, and I liked that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2023 21:58
|
|
|
It's interesting how obedience is rewarded in the afterlife with Christianity. Judaism doesn't really have as much of an emphasis on the afterlife, if any. Key figures like Abraham are given earthly rewards usually in the form of descendants or followers, "your people will be as numerous as stars in the sky". Disobey and you'll get covered in a pillar of salt. Heaven is more of a place that God hangs out. Iirc the only human who ever goes up there in the Old testament is Jacob who goes up in a dream. This promise of a utopian life after life is imo the primary factor in Christianity's rapid expansion. It is a very happy fantasy to believe that all the good people get good endings and even if you die horribly you'll be fine. In fact, you're better off dead, you're in a better place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
Another big draw for Christianity was that it was available to all classes, and (lol) didn't advocate overthrowing the govt (which is why it was adopted so widely as state religion as per my understanding)and instead keeping the worldly life separate from the spiritual.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 01:49
|
|
|
I highly recommend Sunday School Dropouts podcast bc it lends a lot of political and historical context to the bible. Slow burn but worth it, and you can take it all with a grain of salt bc they don't pretend to be experts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 01:52
|
|
|
Christianity and the state is a pretty interesting topic. To my specific reading, it does not advocate state overthrow, but also does not want to be intertwined with the state. The Kingdom of Heaven is something that exists separately from worldly kingdoms (states), which is a source of comfort and support and continuity no matter what the state is up to. But the same tendencies that cause states to arise in the first place cause people to marry Christianity and state or state-like power in many different ways. It was observed upthread that modern Christianity holds the baggage of being the Roman state church, and my personal takeaway is that it's a good lesson about the danger of ever getting in bed with the state.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:Another big draw for Christianity was that it was available to all classes, and (lol) didn't advocate overthrowing the govt (which is why it was adopted so widely as state religion as per my understanding)and instead keeping the worldly life separate from the spiritual. that was a precondition for acceptance by the optimates, of course. the christianity adopted by the empire was but one of many substantially different faiths bearing the same name
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:03
|
|
|
It's interesting! Doesn't erase the merits of the religion, but def makes it worth being wary of the organizations.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
Also worth noting that the Messiah in the judeic context was supposed to bring the Jews out of political exile from their homeland and not what it turned into in Christianity. So that makes all of the retorts from the religious leaders at the time make more sense. Again, I am happy to be wrong, I'm here to learn, but this is my understanding.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:11
|
|
|
Let's not forget that the primary focus of Jesus was to restore the Year of the Lord (the Jubilee Year) which is the periodical divine mandate for the cancellation of debts, the restoration of debt-slaves to their families, and even the restoration of family lands that had fallen into arrears. It was temporal, material, and divine. The ecclesiastical separation and the shift to condemning greed came later, after the original objectives proved impossible under Roman rule.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:15
|
|
|
Yeah forgiving debt seems to have been lost on the current "judeao-christian" traditions. Weird that
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:18
|
|
|
"judeo-christian" is a retarded word btw. i recommend against implying that christianity and judaism are almost the same thing, when the similarity is more on the order of "christianity and islam"
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:25
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:The Christian concept of hell has evolved a lot and is heavily influenced by not only the Jewish hell, but the Greek Hades didn't know that hell is a roguelike, but it does make a fair bit of sense
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:27
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:"judeo-christian" is a retarded word btw. i recommend against implying that christianity and judaism are almost the same thing, when the similarity is more on the order of "christianity and islam" No it's a slight at the common use, not trying to degenerate either. I put it in quotes bc it's more a talking point than a real thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:didn't know that hell is a roguelike, but it does make a fair bit of sense in purgatory you have to 100% sekiro, and the amount of time you spend in purgatory is determined by your innate Gaming Ability
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:No it's a slight at the common use, not trying to degenerate either. I put it in quotes bc it's more a talking point than a real thing. i understood
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:I highly recommend Sunday School Dropouts podcast bc it lends a lot of political and historical context to the bible. Slow burn but worth it, and you can take it all with a grain of salt bc they don't pretend to be experts. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL279CFA55C51E75E0&feature=shared
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:29
|
|
|
/ 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:30
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:i understood Whew, thought you were mad at me. Yeah its nonsense. The difference in conception of a child is the most stark politically, and should always be brought up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:Whew, thought you were mad at me. Yeah its nonsense. The difference in conception of a child is the most stark politically, and should always be brought up. just kidding. gently caress you
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:33
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:just kidding. gently caress you poo poo!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 02:35
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:just kidding. gently caress you
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 03:07
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:"judeo-christian" is a retarded word btw. i recommend against implying that christianity and judaism are almost the same thing, when the similarity is more on the order of "christianity and islam" yep, look at this poo poo. lazy anti-nazi valor theft imo
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
Tungsten posted:yep, look at this poo poo. lazy anti-nazi valor theft imo another chart where you can clearly see reagan
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
Its resurgence in popularity as a dog whistle for definitely-not-Muslims was pretty memorable after 9/11
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 03:38
|
|
|
jewstian
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 03:43
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:I really liked CS Lewis growing up, and one of the theological questions I had as a kid that was never satisfactorily answered was something like "do people in uncontacted tribes go to hell?" To which my church answered yes, and that's why missionary work is so important. Western Christians would be a lot more chill if they actually read and thought about what one of their favorite apologists wrote. Lewis flirted with universalism (specifically in The Great Divorce) and in fact flat out writes in the last Narnia book that good works done in the name of a "false" god are equivalent to good works done in the "correct" name. He recognized that there is a separation between the signifier (a particular religious tradition) and the signified (the Divine). As already mentioned, the religion accepted by the state has to be compatible with empire and establishing a hierarchy of closeness to the divine that is dependent upon devotion to particular social organizations. A religion of empire takes advantage of the floating signifier to associate desirable ideology and practices with the divine and then deny any separation between signifier and signified. This gives the state flexibility to adjust the beliefs of religious followers through authoritative channels while locking out unwanted changes from potential revolutionaries. This is how we end up with absurd theologies like the southern baptists and prosperity preachers. The concept of hell is incredibly important to a religion of empire as a disciplining tool. Any amount of belief in its possibility short circuits critical thought or introspection and demands obedience. By threatening both the believer and the Other, the believer can have their otherwise 'good' impulses hijacked and turned into a disciplinary tool to act on behalf of the state. It's a lot easier to convince people to act as missionaries and settlers when they believe their brutalities ultimately serve the immortal soul of the oppressed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 04:01
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:just kidding. gently caress you
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2023 05:11
|
|
|
AxGrap posted:Whew, thought you were mad at me. Yeah its nonsense. The difference in conception of a child is the most stark politically, and should always be brought up. I meant for the people who invoke "judeao-christian" values politically that is probably the most stark divide between the two religions, but let's keep this ball rolling (been bugging me for a long time but I disengaged, cause I didn't want to make an rear end of myself). Religion!
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 01:49
|
|
|
its important to remember that judaism and christianity are radically different religions and you look like a jackass if you say theyre the same thing
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 01:53
|
|
|
no one said judeo-christian until like the 1950s. you can say "abrahamic" but that acknowledges their kinship with islam
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:its important to remember that judaism and christianity are radically different religions and you look like a jackass if you say theyre the same thing extremely noob to the fandom behavior to mix up the canon and the fanfic like that
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:its important to remember that judaism and christianity are radically different religions and you look like a jackass if you say theyre the same thing Oh I know, when they are invoked as the same it's because of some weird white supremacy (western values) poo poo, and I think it's important to point out the difference to those people that try to do that poo poo. Abortion is a wedge issue, specifically a wedge issue for the type of Christian that tries to invoke "judeao-christian" values.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
Evangelicals are loving crazy, and that's my come up, so forgive me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
Christianity diverges from Judaism in minor seeming but still significant ways. there are three gods in Christianity instead of one, and a large number of demigods versus none. additionally, there is the matter of penises.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
Religion rules, the powers that control it are evil. There is a diversity of thought that is not captured in mainstream hegemonic religion that is powerful, insightful and good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:03
|
|
|
christianity is monotheist bitch. the catholics like to live life on the edge of paganism however
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:03
|
|
|
Ohtori Akio posted:christianity is monotheist bitch. the catholics like to live life on the edge of paganism however Oh yeah the aspects of God are different than Gods. OKAY.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:05
|
|
|
imagine three gods on the edge of a cliff. Christianity works the same way
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Gonna Make a religion where there is one true god but it's inscrutable and all these other gods act on its behalf and call it monotheistic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2023 02:07
|
|