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lih posted:the thinking that the voice was a simple (it hardly was when the public barely seemed to understand it at all) You're an absolute mark who fell for racists pretending to be stupid rather than revealing their real thoughts on Aboriginals.
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Oct 15, 2023 09:51
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it was a pretty flawed proposal - it was designed to be powerless to appease conservatives but didn't even get them on board, while it being powerless meant it was difficult to convey to the average person how it would actually improve anything the yes campaign did a terrible job of communicating the proposal to the public, which let the no campaign spread all sorts of nonsense to fill that void largely unchallenged the no campaign successfully pandered to people's underlying racism none of those are contradictory
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Oct 15, 2023 10:20
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Until a few days ago, Paul Parker was a volunteer firefighter in Nelligen, a small village on the coast of New South Wales, in Australia—an area that has been devastated by the bushfires currently sweeping the country. A week ago, Parker was defending homes in his community against a spreading inferno. The sky was red and burnt orange, he said. Embers were everywhere. Flames shot as high as forty feet. “I’ve fought a few bushfires in my time, but nothing like that,” Parker told me. “It’s the worst I’ve ever experienced.” As Parker raced from one fire to another, on the brink of exhaustion, he encountered a local television crew and erupted in rage. In the video the crew shot, Parker is seen leaning out of a fire truck, giving a sarcastic thumbs-up, and launching a stream of expletives at the right-wing Prime Minister of Australia, Scott Morrison. “Tell the Prime Minister to go and get hosed, from Nelligen,” Parker shouts. He then challenges Morrison to meet him face-to-face. “I’ve lost seven houses in Nelligan. I’m not going to lose any more,” he says. “Tell the P.M. to come and meet me. Paul Parker, in Nelligan. Meet you any day, pal.” The video instantly turned Parker into something of a folk hero. In Parker’s community, and elsewhere, the crisis has provoked intense anger toward Morrison, who was on vacation in Hawaii when two firefighters died in December. Morrison returned to Australia, but his response to the wildfires has been widely condemned as slow and ineffective. Since September, millions of acres of land have burned, thousands of people have lost their homes and businesses, and at least twenty-eight have perished. Morrison’s history of skepticism toward climate change and the government’s record of inaction have infuriated Australians who understand that record-breaking heat and dryness, symptomatic of a warming planet, are fuelling the crisis. On Sunday, Morrison announced an inquiry into the country’s fire response, nodding to the role of climate change but failing to support policies to decrease fossil-fuel use or promote renewable energy. Parker spoke with me twice by phone, from Australia, about the catastrophic fires and about how he and others in Nelligen have responded. His account, which begins on New Year’s Eve, has been edited and condensed. “We knew the fire was coming. In the late afternoon, we could see the glow coming out of the mountains to the southwest, and we knew. At about ten o’clock, we went to bed, and at around ten-thirty we were back up again. It was coming through the trees, and we stayed awake until it impacted us, at about one-thirty in the morning. The fire had crowned, which means it was on the ground and in the treetops. It was just a massive wall of flame. I tried to tame it with buckets of water and by driving over the flames. It was horrific. The absolute intensity of it. “As soon as I knew my home was relatively safe, I hooked up with a couple of other brigade members in one of the local Nelligen fire trucks. Just trying to survive was the main issue, and trying to save as many properties as we could. It was horrendous. Some people were at home, trying to defend their homes with rakes and shovels and garden hoses. Some houses we could save, some we couldn’t, and there was only so much we could do at each property before we had to move on and help others. We lost seven or eight properties in Nelligen. “Most of the population was down at the river. They were just taking shelter and grouping together for comfort, I suppose. They were there all day on New Year’s Day, and most people were at the water’s edge on January 2nd as well. I stayed where the fire was active. I worked probably thirty-six hours. I had a couple of hours sleep and then I was back out again. The fire was flaring up every day. “On January 4th, there was a huge flare-up, and three houses on the eastern side of the river were under major fire. Myself and another volunteer went up and down the best we could. The flames were massive. We could barely breathe, because when buildings go up there’s a lot of toxic materials, plastics and rubber and mattresses. A couple of residents were there trying to defend their own homes, but at one point we had to get them out. They were totally exhausted. It was the middle of the day, but the smoke was so thick you would have thought it was nighttime—that’s how dark the sky was. We got some aerial support from big helicopters dropping water bombs, and we did manage to save the three homes. “Then the wind changed, so the flames were fully involved across the road, and we had to drive the truck through the fire front to get ourselves out. We were driving to stop the fire from going into the village, and we saw a TV-news team down on one of the access roads. It just was a boiling point for me. I said, ‘Are you from the media? Tell the Prime Minister to go and get hosed, from Nelligen. . . . We really enjoy doing this poo poo.’ “A couple of weeks earlier, the Prime Minister commented that Rural Fire Service members enjoy going out and fighting fires. He’s just got no understanding of what it’s all about. We don’t enjoy fighting bushfires and saving people’s homes. We do it because we have to. He’s got no understanding of what real people in Australia go through. And he doesn’t care anyway. Any real man would never have left the country while his country was in turmoil. “Another part is that our government has been hamstrung over hazard-reduction burns. It’s all too political, what the Rural Fire Service can do. If hazard-reduction burns had been done over the last couple of years, the fuel loads in our forests wouldn’t be as high and the fires wouldn’t have been as severe. “Climate change is also a real thing. It’s not something that can be fixed overnight, and the government’s got to make a stand at some stage. Scott Morrison doesn’t even believe in climate change. I don’t think he even considers that we are going through climate change. I don’t know the answers. I’m not a scientist. I don’t know how society as a whole is going to reduce emissions. We can’t just turn off fossil fuels, because if we do we’ll go back to the caveman days. These problems are complex—I understand that. But something needs to be done now, for our future generation, or there won’t be a future. “Today, the 13th, is the first day I’ve been back at work. At the moment, I work for an air-conditioning company. Basically, from New Year’s Eve until today, I haven’t stopped. I’ve been defending homes and in between I’ve been working on my own property. We had no water, and the house was covered in black ash and soot. I had to wash it down, so, when we did get some rain, the soot wouldn’t contaminate it. I was also trying to get generators operating, get electricity, get refrigeration. Basically, I was just trying to reëstablish the services we need to live. https://www.newyorker.com/news/as-told-to/the-firefighter-whose-denunciation-of-australias-prime-minister-made-him-a-folk-hero
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Oct 15, 2023 10:41
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lih posted:it was a pretty flawed proposal - it was designed to be powerless to appease conservatives but didn't even get them on board, while it being powerless meant it was difficult to convey to the average person how it would actually improve anything
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Oct 15, 2023 10:52
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Heard a friend of mine say that not everyone who voted no is racist, but every racist voted no.
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Oct 15, 2023 11:27
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Remote NT communities almost all voted strongly for yes Yeah I was off target, evidently strong support in regional, majority Aboriginal communities. Elsewhere not so much. Wonder if this will have an effect at state level. In NSW they've been sitting on Aboriginal cultural heritage legislation for a few years to replace the present system, which administers it under the National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974 (  ). WA recently rolled back similar legislation made in reaction to the juukan gorge. Seems like it could go either way?
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Oct 15, 2023 11:31
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:You're an absolute mark who fell for racists pretending to be stupid rather than revealing their real thoughts on Aboriginals.
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Oct 15, 2023 11:56
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lih posted:it was a pretty flawed proposal - it was designed to be powerless to appease conservatives but didn't even get them on board, while it being powerless meant it was difficult to convey to the average person how it would actually improve anything Also the LNP's one-two punch of white-anting the debate with ridiculous conspiracy theories and then pushing the line "If you don't know vote No" was actually pretty shrewd and worked extremely well for them, even if they only blundered into the tactic by accident. It gave all the 'underlying racism' voters an extremely easy out by telling them they didn't have to think too hard about any of the issues at hand and if they ever found themselves feeling even a tiny bit conflicted about voting no that wasn't because of any personal flaw that required self-reflection but an external flaw in the referendum process
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Oct 15, 2023 13:54
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ColtMcAsskick posted:Yeah I was off target, evidently strong support in regional, majority Aboriginal communities. Elsewhere not so much. The situation in WA was pretty much the same: quote:By contrast there were just five polling places which showed the same level of support for the proposal – all but one of them mobile polling teams which went into remote communities in the massive seat of Durack, which stretches from WA's very northern tip down to Northam, north of Perth. Meanwhile, deep rural farming regions voted hard no quote:Looking just at polling places where 100 or more formal votes have been counted as of around midday Sunday local time, there were 97 locations where at least 80 per cent of voters opposed the Voice.
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Oct 15, 2023 14:00
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bee posted:Heard a friend of mine say that not everyone who voted no is racist, but every racist voted no. i voted for the racist yes
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Oct 15, 2023 14:06
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GoldStandardConure posted:i've been doing the work for about 13 years now You are a literal saint for carrying the torch and Doing The Things. TheLoneAmigo posted:What work? What are you actually doing as “work” on this issue, other than slagging off the huge numbers of Indigenous activists who put their absolute loving hearts on the line over this referendum? Idk if anyone else listened to the Blak Out show on triple J this afternoon, but it was just Treaty by Yothu Yindi on repeat. 
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Oct 15, 2023 16:16
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:You're an absolute mark who fell for racists pretending to be stupid rather than revealing their real thoughts on Aboriginals. Counterpoint: this attitude is precisely why the Yes campaign was unable to appeal to the huge chunk of people who were undecided through the campaign. I thought this piece in the Saturday Paper a few weeks ago was pretty interesting. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2023/09/30/anatomy-no-the-people-voting-against-the-voice#mtr Both in touching on the immense damage the media/no campaign centring people like Mundine and Thorpe did, implying the Indigenous view on the Voice was split: quote:During a National Press Club speech on Tuesday, Mundine went so far as to call the Voice a “symbolic declaration of war against modern Australia”. And also on the fact that a huge chunk of white Australians didn't think the Voice was necessary because they don't see that Indigenous Australians are disadvantaged in the first place: quote:Focus groups conducted late last year with thousands of participants revealed a shocking hurdle: almost a third of all participants believed First Nations people had been treated fairly. Not just now, but since invasion. I don't really understand why the journo describes that as a "shocking" hurdle. It shouldn't be a surprise to learn that a lot of Australians are completely switched-off from issues that don't affect them, don't personally know many or even any Indigenous people, and therefore have a vague sense that things are fine now because the Herald Sun says we pump billions of dollars a year into remote communities. I don't know how you get a Yes vote on the Voice - let alone more meaningful progress towards treaty or reconciliation - while such a large chunk of the population denies there's a problem in the first place, but I do know that it's sure as hell not going to be through a popular vote. Anyway - No voters weren't "pretending to be stupid."
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Oct 15, 2023 23:57
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your first sentence is completely at odds with the conclusions that article draws lol, the yes campaign failed bc australia is a deeply racist country and its pathetic to try and pin the failings of the referendum on people who point that out
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Oct 16, 2023 00:05
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Remote NT communities almost all voted strongly for yes Lol, gotta love JNP on the radio today saying these particular voters were too manipulated and uninformed for them to be taken seriously.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:14
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:One of my friends is an indigenous nurse in regional Australia, they're having a rough loving time today. The use of US style misinformation campaigns over facebook/ticktock etc. worked with the culture war on race, now they are going to do it on gender. I mean we all knew how racist Australia is/was, now we get to see how many TERFs are among us. Which will be fun.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:20
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freebooter posted:I don't know how you get a Yes vote on the Voice - let alone more meaningful progress towards treaty or reconciliation - while such a large chunk of the population denies there's a problem in the first place, This was the importance of Truth > Treaty > Voice, because you can't make meaningful progress on either the treaty or the voice people refuse to acknowledge what has happened, and is still happening, to First Nations people here.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:21
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GoldStandardConure posted:This was the importance of Truth > Treaty > Voice, because you can't make meaningful progress on either the treaty or the voice people refuse to acknowledge what has happened, and is still happening, to First Nations people here. seems like the majority of Australians don't want to acknowledge it, they would prefer to not think about it at all
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Oct 16, 2023 00:53
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BrigadierSensible posted:The use of US style misinformation campaigns over facebook/ticktock etc. worked with the culture war on race, now they are going to do it on gender. Albo is a terf
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Oct 16, 2023 01:37
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Anidav posted:Albo is a terf he doesn't strike me as a very radical feminist he's just poo poo
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Oct 16, 2023 01:45
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He went on Piers Morgan and said women are women when visiting the King. It seemed like very UK Labour behaviour to me.
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Oct 16, 2023 01:50
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...... and to absolutely no one's surprise, Dutton has immediately backed down on his commitment to hold a second referendum to add Indigenous recognition to the constitutionquote:"I think that [constitutional recognition] is important, but I think it's clear that the Australian public is probably over the referendum process for some time."
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Oct 16, 2023 02:30
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Never been sadder to save 10 USD. I voted Yes. I voted absentee and will never do so again (It is ridiculously tedious and the tiny queue took forever). Had a huge fight with my gf about it as she voted No, and not the progressive kind. At least she isn't lying to me. The booth in her suburb just about topped Australia at 75% No 25% Yes. They are 3/4 racist scum there. Locally the indigenous population is 11%. Factoring this into the local numbers, that figure (75%) is pretty much duplicated across Cowper except for Bellingen and a very few other exceptions. Still on a personal note, spent the W/E at the Wingham Music Festival. It was very good and had a nice, if elderly, vibe (Felicity Urquhart made me like country music - breifly). But the shadow of No loomed over procedings and the only indigenous faces in the sea of white boomers were either on stage or at the smoking ceremony. It took 13 years to set the clock back at least 20 years. Indigenous people don't have that kind of time. If there is a role to be had in this fight point me at it. Spookydonut posted:why is dutton talking like he just won a federal election
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Oct 16, 2023 02:32
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I don't think the failure of the referendum in any way translates to the public having warmed up to Dutton/the Libs over Albo/Labor, and polling continues to reflect that.
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Oct 16, 2023 02:33
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bowmore posted:100% They don't want to think about anything at all
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Oct 16, 2023 02:40
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I don't think the failure of the referendum in any way translates to the public having warmed up to Dutton/the Libs over Albo/Labor, and polling continues to reflect that. The only question I heard put to albo on the night was about how his views conflict with the majority of Australians, and was literally trying to start leadership speculation
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Oct 16, 2023 02:42
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Eediot Jedi posted:They don't want to think about anything at all
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Oct 16, 2023 02:43
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bowmore posted:no doubt hey don't bring ska into this, no doubt did nothing wrong
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Oct 16, 2023 02:55
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GoldStandardConure posted:hey don't bring ska into this, no doubt did nothing wrong Counterpoint: Their cover of The Vandals' Oi To The World.
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Oct 16, 2023 02:59
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don't speak is still a good song
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Oct 16, 2023 03:07
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bowmore posted:100% yep it gets mentally filed into the "not my problem" basket
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Oct 16, 2023 03:23
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BrigadierSensible posted:Counterpoint: Their cover of The Vandals' Oi To The World. no doubt did a little wrong
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Oct 16, 2023 03:39
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:...... and to absolutely no one's surprise, Dutton has immediately backed down on his commitment to hold a second referendum to add Indigenous recognition to the constitution Lmao
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Oct 16, 2023 04:21
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:...... and to absolutely no one's surprise, Dutton has immediately backed down on his commitment to hold a second referendum to add Indigenous recognition to the constitution Impossible to see coming; I have been duped and my no is no longer progressing
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Oct 16, 2023 05:35
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:...... and to absolutely no one's surprise, Dutton has immediately backed down on his commitment to hold a second referendum to add Indigenous recognition to the constitution *shocked pikachu*
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Oct 16, 2023 06:01
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BrigadierSensible posted:The use of US style misinformation campaigns over facebook/ticktock etc. worked with the culture war on race, now they are going to do it on gender. They lost the marriage equality vote and have been stewing ever since. It's going to be so loving ugly 
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Oct 16, 2023 06:02
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GoldStandardConure posted:This was the importance of Truth > Treaty > Voice, because you can't make meaningful progress on either the treaty or the voice people refuse to acknowledge what has happened, and is still happening, to First Nations people here. But what if I don't believe in singling out people just because of their race? :justaskingquestions: Mentioning one group of people in the constitution sounds just like racism to me! - actual conversation I had with more than one person 
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Oct 16, 2023 06:06
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...and now Spotify is suggesting Peta Credlin's podcast to me. Goddamn this world can just go and get hosed at the moment.
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Oct 16, 2023 09:19
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Nation of rugged individualists vote against minority interests; news at loving 11 What a failure, Labor had a hard job to convince people for sure but they cocked it up and now the right wing dickheads are taking a victory lap when all they had to do was do was rub their fingers together in the universal symbol for "it'll cost ya" and the result would have been the same
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Oct 16, 2023 11:03
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Murdoch was never going to let it pass. Doesn't matter what Labor or anyone else did or said.
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Oct 16, 2023 11:50
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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/15/indigenous-communities-overwhelmingly-voted-yes-to-australias-voice-to-parliament Wow, who would have thought that the people concerned would want representation! Good thing the no (progressive) won! Now they get an even better outcome, I assume.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:48
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