|
Hryme posted:It is possible to have a negative reaction to suffering and perceived injustice. No matter what country you happen to be from. People who are insanely cynical are tiresome. As individuals? Sure. I believe there are plenty of people, regardless of nation, horrified by what is happening right now. But I don't believe for a moment the governments of Russia or China are doing anything but saying whatever they think will either strengthen their hand or weaken their perceived enemies. The Putin & Pooh regimes are in it solely for themselves and have shown the world their true face again, and again, and again. Separately, the Israeli response the past week is as enraging as it is predictable. I can only hope that enough of the populace turns on Bibi to hurl him from power as soon as possible.
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 09:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:00 |
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:The supposed captured plans (the version of them shared by NBC, at least) are especially dubious because they apparently involved raiding a primary school to capture child hostages before dawn on Saturday morning. I don't need to explain why that sounds completely moronic, do I? instructions to all loyal terrorist kill death super soldiers of hamas as follows (please carry this document on you in triplicate): خدمات الترجمة اللغوية غير متوفرة في الوقت الحالي
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 09:55
|
|
|
Kavros posted:instructions to all loyal terrorist kill death super soldiers of hamas as follows (please carry this document on you in triplicate): خدمات الترجمة اللغوية غير متوفرة في الوقت الحالي Hmm any reason why Arabic to English translation is currently unavailable on Google?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 10:02
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:So Gaza is blockaded these past 16 years and now under siege in which not even water is allowed in, and yet the internet is still running? How is that possible? The Internet was literally developed to keep working in situations like this
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 10:41
|
|
|
E; ^^^ People forget but the Internet was designed to help continuity of communications during and after nuclear war. A lot of Gazans have surely lost access but it's no surprise at all that some are managing to stay online. A solar charger and a satphone would keep some level of access available for a long time I expect. Dexanth posted:As individuals? Sure. I believe there are plenty of people, regardless of nation, horrified by what is happening right now. Sure, China aren't likely to do something they believe will hurt their national interests, but I/P just doesn't rank that highly in their list of priorities. China wants peace and stability so it can do Belt & Road stuff all over the place, build up partnerships with various countries by providing reasonable development packages and economic agreements (or at least less egregiously exploitative than US/EU ones are), and secure domestic matters and regional security, whether by keeping Tibet and Xinjiang under control and suppressive perceived dissent, integrating HK, or trying to bring Taiwan back. Global power requires the ability to project hard power, but of all their objectives the only one that might warrant military aggression is Taiwan, and Beijing evidently believes that it is either something they can do better through peaceful means, a fight they wouldn't win, or a fight they would win at too high a cost. (They may also privately regard it as a far lower priority than they claim, and talk it up as a matter of pride rather than being something they're seriously willing to go to the mattresses for.) They're not really facing any parallel that makes a pro-Palestinian stance look hypocritical or inconsistent. They'd need something like having taken Taiwan, but having a native Formosan state in idk Kaohsiung they are trying to take over or remove. Meanwhile China gains little from trying to get in good with Israel. Even if relations were made positive they aren't going to surpass the level of closeness with D.C. and London, and if they did, so what? Israel doesn't offer them nearly as much as the Arab world could. So whilst again it's true China isn't going to go ham for a cause that weakens them, speaking in favor of Gaza probably doesn't, and may strengthen them - but either way the stakes for them are low enough in material terms that they don't pay a price for voicing their objections to Israel's actions. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Oct 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 10:49
|
|
|
Cross-posting a bit from the UK thread just to offer a glimmer of positivity. I was at the London protest yesterday and the support for Palestine was overwhelming. It was reported that there were 150000+ people there standing in solidarity. Never felt once that it was going to kick off and get ugly. The many Jewish supporters, which included rabbis, pro-Palestinian organisations, and protestors were consistently praised, applauded and thanked by everyone in the crowds, from all backgrounds. The whole thing was a moving experience. There was a minutes silence in which the sorrow was immense. It was a unifying, peaceful demonstration and I encourage anyone who might be on the fence about going to a protest to be unafraid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 11:14
|
|
|
China’s path to ethnic cleansing is claim righteousness from millennia ago, force integration with Han peoples, increased police state, and reeducation camps to dispel religion. The long game. They claim a two state solution when in reality posturing to never let that be possible. Carpet bombing and expelling ethnic groups is counter to their approach. Though I have a hard time believing Israel is going to do anything other than invade, occupy, and disperse refugees after they carpet bomb the place until it isn’t recognizable anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 11:18
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Just wanted to post this Peter Zeihan video about the whole situation. Zeihan is a bit of strange fellow, he does futures predictions for companies about how the world is going to be in the next 10-30 years. He does a good job summing up what's been going on, and brings up a few thoughts that hadn't occurred to me (and from watching the thread, most others), such as the factionalization in the Gaza Strip that may have contributed to the initial Hamas butchery. Thought the thread might appreciate it. One of the points Zeihan makes is that the percentage of Israeli citizens that are exempt from conscription and subject to far less taxes because they are deeply religious is growing because the same group also have lots of children, and as their population grows their influence in government is increasing. This has lead to a growing influence of 'wack-job right wing parties" who push bad ideas and may have contributed to the security failure we saw last week. I'm interested in hearing other people's opinion on this. It makes logical sense to me that this would be a growing problem over time, but I don't follow what happens in day to day Israel beyond what's in the NY Times and WSJ.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 12:08
|
|
|
That’s like saying the Mormons insistence on peace is undermining the neocon policy of the US and why we’re losing proxy wars worldwide because blind faith in neocon warfare wasn’t given. Hint: poor excuse
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 12:22
|
|
|
Hersh isn't nearly as reliable as he was back in his journalistic prime, but his report on the apparent Israeli strategy for the destruction of Gaza is plausible, insanely bleak, and worth keeping in mind in case it proves to be accurate in the days to come: https://x.com/conzmoleman/status/1713357732164632773?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 12:32
|
|
|
A JDAM bomb which goes 50 meters into the ground and then kills everyone within half a mile. Sounds as plausible as most of what Hersh has been saying recently.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 12:53
|
|
|
Thanks Obama
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:05
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Hersh isn't nearly as reliable as he was back in his journalistic prime, but his report on the apparent Israeli strategy for the destruction of Gaza is plausible, insanely bleak, and worth keeping in mind in case it proves to be accurate in the days to come: any Russian idioms translated directly into English, or did he actually write this one himself?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:07
|
|
|
CeeJee posted:A JDAM bomb which goes 50 meters into the ground and then kills everyone within half a mile. Sounds as plausible as most of what Hersh has been saying recently. Having only done a few minutes of googling, it seems clear to me his source is talking about a MOP like the GBU-57A/B. Do you have more info of why it's implausible Israel would use a bomb like it or is it a gut feeling?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:18
|
|
|
Snowmanatee posted:Having only done a few minutes of googling, it seems clear to me his source is talking about a MOP like the GBU-57A/B. Do you have more info of why it's implausible Israel would use a bomb like it or is it a gut feeling? For starters, Israel has no plane that could launch that weapon. And also you can check https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ to see what kind of yield would be needed for a '100% deaths within half a mile' result and that's in the hundreds of KT range. CeeJee fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:40
|
|
|
Snowmanatee posted:Having only done a few minutes of googling, it seems clear to me his source is talking about a MOP like the GBU-57A/B. Do you have more info of why it's implausible Israel would use a bomb like it or is it a gut feeling? Well the misnaming is a clear sign that just like his 'reporting' on Russia/Ukraine issues he's clearly being taken for a ride by someone who is either deliberately misleading him or doesn't know what they are talking about, and he's completely lost the ability to smell bullshit. e: ^^ yeah, and basic facts like that. e2: the test isn't 'is this plausible?' because basically anything passes that test (except this), the test is 'did this come from a credible source?'
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:41
|
|
|
I can definitely believe someone in the IDF told Hersh that they can defeat Hamas easily and without a costly ground invasion (so they might as well surrender now). I don't believe that's actually true, however.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:42
|
|
|
Snowmanatee posted:Having only done a few minutes of googling, it seems clear to me his source is talking about a MOP like the GBU-57A/B. Do you have more info of why it's implausible Israel would use a bomb like it or is it a gut feeling? The actual article states GBU-43/B, which can airburst destruction in a radius of a mile. So Hersh might be confusing two different weapons?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 13:55
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:I can definitely believe someone in the IDF told Hersh that they can defeat Hamas easily and without a costly ground invasion (so they might as well surrender now). I don't believe that's actually true, however. Right. And Hersh continues by almost immediately quoting someone else saying the JDAM bunker-busters won't be totally effective against Hamas tunnels. He's not being fully taken for a ride here like some are saying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 14:10
|
|
|
Snowmanatee posted:Right. And Hersh continues by almost immediately quoting someone else saying the JDAM bunker-busters won't be totally effective against Hamas tunnels. He's not being fully taken for a ride here like some are saying. He predicts the dropping of these 'five thousand pound JDAM' bombs, which is more then twice the weight of the JDAM's known to exist, will begin Sunday or Monday so we'll know soon enough.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
Just because Hersh has an awful recent track record, it doesn't mean that anyone is disputing the fact that Israel is going to bombard the hell out of Gaza and try to kill/drive off as many people as possible. I mean they've already started... Just that Hersh has humiliated himself recently, so we should generally be very skeptical of his specific claims unless and until they're corroborated elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 14:40
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Hersh isn't nearly as reliable as he was back in his journalistic prime, but his report on the apparent Israeli strategy for the destruction of Gaza is plausible, insanely bleak, and worth keeping in mind in case it proves to be accurate in the days to come: Does anyone have access to a full copy of the essay? The excerpts in the tweet's kind of jump from idea to idea at certain points so it's hard to get an overall point of what the essay is trying to say. We're talking about what Hersh claims but without the full essay. https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/the-plan-to-wipe-out-hamas There's only a preview available on substack and I'm not paying to read just one article from substack.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 14:54
|
|
|
.
mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
daslog posted:One of the points Zeihan makes is that the percentage of Israeli citizens that are exempt from conscription and subject to far less taxes because they are deeply religious is growing because the same group also have lots of children, and as their population grows their influence in government is increasing. This has lead to a growing influence of 'wack-job right wing parties" who push bad ideas and may have contributed to the security failure we saw last week. I'm interested in hearing other people's opinion on this. It makes logical sense to me that this would be a growing problem over time, but I don't follow what happens in day to day Israel beyond what's in the NY Times and WSJ. It's a growing problem, but I don't really think it would have contributed too much to the security failures. The ultra-Orthodox parties don't really have an opinion on the military aside from "we want to be exempt from conscription". As long as they get that exemption, they don't really meddle with military policy, and they don't make up enough of the population for the IDF to be running low on manpower just yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:13
|
|
|
https://x.com/abujamajem/status/1713510664860315682?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Umm... whoops? Von der Leyen seems to be in pretty deep poo poo over going pro-genocide quite so hard.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:It's a growing problem, but I don't really think it would have contributed too much to the security failures. The ultra-Orthodox parties don't really have an opinion on the military aside from "we want to be exempt from conscription". As long as they get that exemption, they don't really meddle with military policy, and they don't make up enough of the population for the IDF to be running low on manpower just yet. Yeah I don't think it's that significant a factor now (although it may have been one of the factors contributing to the IDF being entirely deployed to the West Bank), I think Zeihan is more on point with the observation that one of the traits of Israeli politics is an intense unwillingness to silence or 'leave behind' any part of the Jewish community.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:50
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:Hmm any reason why Arabic to English translation is currently unavailable on Google? It's not down, it just refuses to translate that specific thing. I literally can't find a website that will, either. What does it say? Edit: it literally says "language translation services are not available at this time" in Arabic. 
KillHour fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Oct 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:57
|
|
|
https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1713584334379086312?s=20 Maybe he was trying to make the semantic argument that all anti-Jewish violence is actually anti-Zionist violence but it seems like not the best time to share such a take.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
KillHour posted:It's not down, it just refuses to translate that specific thing. I literally can't find a website that will, either. What does it say? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
KillHour posted:It's not down, it just refuses to translate that specific thing. I literally can't find a website that will, either. What does it say? Are you people doing a bit or something? It literally means 'Language translation is not available at this time'. That's the joke.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Yeah I don't think it's that significant a factor now (although it may have been one of the factors contributing to the IDF being entirely deployed to the West Bank), I think Zeihan is more on point with the observation that one of the traits of Israeli politics is an intense unwillingness to silence or 'leave behind' any part of the Jewish community. Beta Israel excepted. There's a long and grim history of institutional racism in Israel against Ethiopian Jews, with the involuntary sterilisation scandal merely being the most notorious example.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
Paladinus posted:Are you people doing a bit or something? It literally means 'Language translation is not available at this time'. That's the joke. Divorced from the original context, I didn't get the joke, but thinking about it in the OP, it makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:08
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Beta Israel excepted. There's a long and grim history of institutional racism in Israel against Ethiopian Jews, with the involuntary sterilisation scandal merely being the most notorious example. So on the one hand yes (and that example is pretty awful), on the other hand Beta Israel is a community that had been totally isolated from every other bit of Judeism for between one and two thousand years, and Israel still decided 'yes officially you are Jews, you get right of return'. I think literally any other country in the world would have just left things at 'lol no you are not one of us'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:15
|
|
|
Dexanth posted:Separately, the Israeli response the past week is as enraging as it is predictable. I can only hope that enough of the populace turns on Bibi to hurl him from power as soon as possible. Rest assured, Israelis protesting Israeli actions now are being beaten and humiliated.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:25
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Yeah I don't think it's that significant a factor now (although it may have been one of the factors contributing to the IDF being entirely deployed to the West Bank), I think Zeihan is more on point with the observation that one of the traits of Israeli politics is an intense unwillingness to silence or 'leave behind' any part of the Jewish community. Neither of those really sound right to me. The main ultra-Orthodox parties are (mostly) anti-Zionist and don't particularly care about the West Bank. While there's a lot of ultra-Orthodox people in the settlements now, that's largely for cost-of-living reasons rather than ideological reasons (turns out it's hard to afford rent when one of your religious tenets is "I shouldn't have to work"), so they're not really that diehard about the settlements politically. Most of the political support for the settlements are from the national-religious parties like Jewish Home, which aren't really connected to the ultra-Orthodox parties except that they both tend to end up in right-wing coalitions. There's still a fair bit of ideological gap between the mainstream Haredi parties and the national-religious parties. There are some fringe ultra-Orthodox on the settlement frontlines, but they aren't too connected to the mainstream ultra-Orthodox parties. An "intense unwillingness to 'leave behind' any part of the Jewish community" is not really how I'd characterize Israeli politics, which has had a long history of new immigrant waves being "left behind" politically and economically. There is still, to this day, discrimination against Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in Israel (up to and including straight-up segregation, and the reason Avigdor Lieberman is able to play kingmaker in the Knesset is because he leads a political party dedicated to advocating for the interests of Jewish immigrants from ex-Soviet states. The closest thing I'd say is that Israeli politics has had a long history of deferring politically sensitive issues in order to avoid the ideological and political conflicts that confronting those issues would entail, kicking the can down the road by throwing halfassed compromises in place and then praying at the altar of the "status quo" to avoid ever really confronting those irreconcilable disagreements on their own. Similar to how the US handled slavery for its first few decades.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
guidoanselmi posted:Rest assured, Israelis protesting Israeli actions now are being beaten and humiliated. Is there a source for this. I haven't heard much of protests happening in Israel or protesters being beaten up in Israel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
nvm
DeadmansReach fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:41
|
|
|
.
mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
Some moderately good news. Israel promises to renew water supply to parts of southern Gaza. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/renewed-water-supply-parts-south-gaza-agreed-with-biden-israeli-minister-2023-10-15/ Unfortunately, I believe this might be the bad news for northern Gaza, if the South becomes the dedicated safe zone for civilians.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:00 |
|
|
Paladinus posted:Some moderately good news. Israel promises to renew water supply to parts of southern Gaza. wonder how the water will actually get to anybody anyways. the water infrastructure wouldnt be doing so well after this much bombardment, and anyways water pumps run on electricity
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2023 17:52
|
|