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RareAcumen posted:https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Heroes/Development#Storyboards I'm not sure where to even find a legit source for it at this point. But my favorite story about the development of Heroes was the team's internal debate about if Shadow was dead or not after SA2. I think he would have been better off as a one-shot character. But I at least like what they have been trying to do with correcting the character direction in Forces. That DLC story was the first time I actually liked him in a while. But then I hear in the comics and other current stuff he's just very wasted potential, and not allowed to really be his own thing anymore. So I guess I'm back to thinking he would have been better not coming back.
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Oct 15, 2023 00:34
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Hrist posted:I'm not sure where to even find a legit source for it at this point. But my favorite story about the development of Heroes was the team's internal debate about if Shadow was dead or not after SA2. I think he would have been better off as a one-shot character. But I at least like what they have been trying to do with correcting the character direction in Forces. That DLC story was the first time I actually liked him in a while. But then I hear in the comics and other current stuff he's just very wasted potential, and not allowed to really be his own thing anymore. So I guess I'm back to thinking he would have been better not coming back. 
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Oct 15, 2023 00:37
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Hrist posted:I'm not sure where to even find a legit source for it at this point. But my favorite story about the development of Heroes was the team's internal debate about if Shadow was dead or not after SA2. I think he would have been better off as a one-shot character. But I at least like what they have been trying to do with correcting the character direction in Forces. That DLC story was the first time I actually liked him in a while. But then I hear in the comics and other current stuff he's just very wasted potential, and not allowed to really be his own thing anymore. So I guess I'm back to thinking he would have been better not coming back. Yeah, I heard that same story from a podcast. As someone who's only familiar with Shadow from the video games and Sonic Prime objectively I can't see much appeal because he's kinda hard to get a read on as a character. He was a villain for 95% of SA2, trapped in the indecisive moral choice game design era for Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06 was rushed 3 years ahead of schedule, Sonic and the Black Knights was a spin-off etc. I can't get a read on the guy! He's the only other hedgehog that can go Super if they ever want to do that, and that's about all I got!
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Oct 15, 2023 00:53
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Shadow is fine as Sonic’s harder edged and darker rival while also being Omega and Rouge’s best buddy. That’s all he needs to be.
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Oct 15, 2023 00:56
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He's the enemy turned rival turned friend who has chilled out a lot since back in the day. So, Vegeta.
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Oct 15, 2023 00:58
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Right like you don’t have to look much harder past “Shadow is the Vegeta to Sonic’s Goku”. One time enemy who thought himself the ultimate life form, now he’s a friendly rival.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:05
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I thought the conflict is that Sega wants Shadow to be early series Vegeta who only wants to fight strong people and doesn't care for making friends (so, Bass from Megaman), while most of the fans (including those working on modern Sonic if we're being honest) want him to be late series Vegeta who is a jerk with a heart of gold.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:08
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Shadow is Vegeta, Silver is Trunks, this isn't difficult
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Oct 15, 2023 01:09
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I can take him or leave him these days but to me Shadow is emblematic of the stupid self serious poo poo SA2 tried to inject into the series. Try explaining his backstory to yourself, it’s embarrassing. Metal Sonic has the decency to just be Sonic but Robotnik’s bad version of him. That’s all you need.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:09
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It's funny, I don't like Heroes, SHtH or Sonic 06 at all, I think as a whole, they're easily the worst space of time for the Sonic franchise (and that includes a space of time where the franchise was on the brink of death because SEGA had almost mismanaged their way entirely out of business). I don't like the games at all, I don't like the stories at all, I think the dialog is extremely poorly written, I think they're just a big waste of time except for one thing. Shadow has an arc from SA2 all the way to 06 and it's like the only example of game-to-game storytelling and character development in the entire franchise and it's kind of stupid a lot of the time in those individual games. In Heroes, he just comes back with amnesia, which is so lazy on its face and nobody except Rouge treats him being back as anything even remotely noteworthy. SHtH is an extremely goofy game with an extremely scattershot tone and an even dumber conceit than Heroes' amnesia storyline in "uhhhh, it was ALLLIIIIEEEENS!!!!" And Sonic 06 is a game where almost every single story beat is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. But somehow, as a whole, all of these games have a real, emotional arc for Shadow where he goes a genocidal vengeance seeker, to having absolutely no sense of self, to a no-nonsense hero with some things he genuinely cares about. The ending of his 06 story, where Mephiles basically tells him, he's never gonna discard who he once was, the world will always see him as the monster that almost ended the world, no matter how many times he saves it, he responds with "Don't care, didn't ask." and beats the poo poo out of Mephiles. That fact that that feels genuinely earned and given where he started in SA2, that's kind of incredible. And it kinda doesn't bother me much that he doesn't do anything these days, cause he did have that arc and it was cool. Having said, SEGA, if you wanna make a open zone game about Team Dark, you'll have my 60 bucks. MJeff fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 01:24
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mycot posted:I thought the conflict is that Sega wants Shadow to be early series Vegeta who only wants to fight strong people and doesn't care for making friends (so, Bass from Megaman), while most of the fans (including those working on modern Sonic if we're being honest) want him to be late series Vegeta who is a jerk with a heart of gold. Another unsourced claim I heard; Writers tried giving Shadow anything cool, fun, or interesting to fight the Zomboids tactically besides running in and getting owned and SEGA kept turning every suggestion down until they were like 'Okay, he charges in punches them and then gets infected' and that's the one that got approved.  man nurse posted:I can take him or leave him these days but to me Shadow is emblematic of the stupid self serious poo poo SA2 tried to inject into the series. Try explaining his backstory to yourself, it’s embarrassing. Metal Sonic has the decency to just be Sonic but Robotnik’s bad version of him. That’s all you need. I think Regular Show is a fun ridiculous cartoon and I enjoy how cute Kirby is vs the scenarios and curses that're going on in that series' background. I'm fine with the talking hedgehog and his various bipedal animal friends opposing the evil scientist. That's Crash Bandicoot and Ratchet and Clank's dynamic as well for example. I just have a hard time understanding Shadow's whole deal as a character because he's different every 2 games.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:27
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Shadow is Sonic but self-serious instead of free spirited. That's it. That's the entire thing. Everything else is irrelevant.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:29
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I like Shadow!
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Oct 15, 2023 01:51
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I find it hard to take anything regarding the comics as like anything that would reflect in the games.
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Oct 15, 2023 02:40
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Shadow’s story in SA2 is good
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Oct 15, 2023 02:56
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shadow the hedgehog kicks rear end
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Oct 15, 2023 03:12
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shadow was rocket fuel to the franchise's lasting appeal from his debut all the way to its doldrums in 2k6. he is precisely engineered to set a certain part of every tween brain on fire. if i'd watched the second movie in a theater then i probably would have gone deaf from the howls of anticipation when he appeared in the stinger
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Oct 15, 2023 03:15
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I’ve been watching a lot of one piece the past few months and boy if you think shadow’s backstory is too serious for a series about goofy cartoon characters you ain’t seen poo poo
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Oct 15, 2023 03:28
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Oxxidation posted:shadow was rocket fuel to the franchise's lasting appeal from his debut all the way to its doldrums in 2k6. he is precisely engineered to set a certain part of every tween brain on fire. if i'd watched the second movie in a theater then i probably would have gone deaf from the howls of anticipation when he appeared in the stinger There were a couple kids sitting next to me in the theater and when they saw Shadow, they lit up and excitedly started talking to each about how Shadow, Amy and Silver were gonna be in Sonic 3. Augus posted:I’ve been watching a lot of one piece the past few months and boy if you think shadow’s backstory is too serious for a series about goofy cartoon characters you ain’t seen poo poo One Piece's goofy little mascot character's backstory is like the saddest thing to ever sad. I dunno. Goofy energetic characters with childish designs can run the gamut of tone from serious and sad to high action to light and comedic. One Piece is the ultimate proof of that as the best selling manga of all time. Dunno why that's fine for that but all of a sudden it's weird for Sonic. That's not true, I do know why. Because One Piece is written much much much better than Sonic. But I don't think that's all of it. MJeff fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 04:03
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Jun Senoue worked on Sonic 3, he knows what a Megadrive sounds like, why can't he write retro Sonic music to save his life
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Oct 15, 2023 05:49
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man nurse posted:I can take him or leave him these days but to me Shadow is emblematic of the stupid self serious poo poo SA2 tried to inject into the series. Try explaining his backstory to yourself, it’s embarrassing. Metal Sonic has the decency to just be Sonic but Robotnik’s bad version of him. That’s all you need. what's embarrassing about it
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Oct 15, 2023 05:52
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Jun Senoue worked on Sonic 3, he knows what a Megadrive sounds like, why can't he write retro Sonic music to save his life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4akmFPVQfs
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Oct 15, 2023 08:35
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Shadow rules in 06, the "even if the world is my enemy I'll fight for it" line is so good. It's also cool to see Team Dark come together, Sonic is a series about the super power of teamwork and friendship - but I love how Team Dark has this found family vibe in that game. Just pals looking out for each other no matter what!
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Oct 15, 2023 11:20
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Jun Senoue worked on Sonic 3, he knows what a Megadrive sounds like, why can't he write retro Sonic music to save his life He's a composer, not an FM chip engineer
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Oct 15, 2023 12:01
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man nurse posted:I can take him or leave him these days but to me Shadow is emblematic of the stupid self serious poo poo SA2 tried to inject into the series. Try explaining his backstory to yourself, it’s embarrassing. Metal Sonic has the decency to just be Sonic but Robotnik’s bad version of him. That’s all you need. I generally think the early 2D Sonics and Mania are the only 'truly good" Sonics, but the "stupid self serious poo poo" of SA2 kind of loving owned. Like watching someone play through SA2 recently gave me a ton of appreciation and nostalgia for how silly and fun it was. Like get out of here if you don't think there's something kind of hype and fun to Sonic and Shadow going super to fight a giant lizard while "Live and Learn" blasts. I feel like we don't get a lot of games these days that are self-serious in such a fun clumsy way that SA1/2 were, but maybe that's just nostalgia talking. I think it's something that walks a fairly fine line, where it can be very easy to get wrong, and I'm glad that they haven't tried to match the tone and stakes in every subsequent game. But Frontiers dipping back into that was a nice treat.
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Oct 15, 2023 14:38
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WOO! WOO! COME ON!
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Oct 15, 2023 14:46
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Skeletome posted:Shadow rules in 06, the "even if the world is my enemy I'll fight for it" line is so good. It's also cool to see Team Dark come together, Sonic is a series about the super power of teamwork and friendship - but I love how Team Dark has this found family vibe in that game. Just pals looking out for each other no matter what! this
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Oct 15, 2023 17:07
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Preload is up on PS5 at least. Didn’t really check the size
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Oct 15, 2023 17:32
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man nurse posted:Preload is up on PS5 at least. Didn’t really check the size Probably not that big as it downloaded pretty quickly on my PS4. I assume the code for the Modern Amy skin won’t be sent out until the game is actually released? Edit: Counting the DLC stuff it’s a little over 10GB Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 17:52
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man nurse posted:I can take him or leave him these days but to me Shadow is emblematic of the stupid self serious poo poo SA2 tried to inject into the series. Try explaining his backstory to yourself, it’s embarrassing. Metal Sonic has the decency to just be Sonic but Robotnik’s bad version of him. That’s all you need. Sonic Adventure 2 is as “serious” as a TMNT comic. It’s fine.
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Oct 15, 2023 18:28
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SA2's story is loving rad
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Oct 15, 2023 18:31
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Talk about low budget flight
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Oct 15, 2023 18:33
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Nodosaur posted:Sonic Adventure 2 is as “serious” as a TMNT comic. It’s fine. I think it’s tonally at odds with the series up to that point. All of sudden you’ve got the military, secret government experiments, gunning down some girl so bad Sonic can have a motivation, publicly executing Eggman’s grandad after he programs a space lizard to shove a colony up its rear end and then we also blow up the moon I did not like that era of Sonic. I think Frontiers struck a nice balance of having some meatier series lore, kinda like how Adventure 1 did while still being appropriately whimsical.
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Oct 15, 2023 18:59
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Also I feel like Roger did better during the more serious scenes in Frontiers than he has in the past (he got “smarmy rear end in a top hat Sonic” down pat pretty much from the start) though overall I do prefer his normal Sonic voice over the more subdued version shown here The whole game storywise basically being Shadow of the Colossus only with more levity and a happy ending was kind of neat too Off the subject, it seems like those that preordered Superstars will get to play the game a little early as well (my clock says 1 day, 10 hours last I checked) Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 19:04
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man nurse posted:I think it’s tonally at odds with the series up to that point. All of sudden you’ve got the military, secret government experiments, gunning down some girl so bad Sonic can have a motivation, publicly executing Eggman’s grandad after he programs a space lizard to shove a colony up its rear end and then we also blow up the moon Literally the game before featuring an entire culture being genocided in flames.
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Oct 15, 2023 19:07
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man nurse posted:I think it’s tonally at odds with the series up to that point. All of sudden you’ve got the military, secret government experiments, gunning down some girl so bad Sonic can have a motivation, publicly executing Eggman’s grandad after he programs a space lizard to shove a colony up its rear end and then we also blow up the moon All that is good imo
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Oct 15, 2023 19:08
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I still think that 2006's story would have been a beloved camp icon like Adventure 2/Shadow if the actual game wasn't basically unplayable. It still kinda is.
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Oct 15, 2023 19:09
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mycot posted:I still think that 2006's story would have been a beloved camp icon like Adventure 2/Shadow if the actual game wasn't basically unplayable. It still kinda is. I actually feel like 06 might have been a decent Adventure clone had it been given at least another year or two of development, you can kind of see the building blocks of a good game but it’s marred by pretty much everything else
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Oct 15, 2023 19:12
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mycot posted:I still think that 2006's story would have been a beloved camp icon like Adventure 2/Shadow if the actual game wasn't basically unplayable. It still kinda is. SA2’s story may be camp, but it’s not actively horrid like Shadow/2006
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Oct 15, 2023 19:15
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It just came out in the wrong year. 2006: "I can't believe it! This game has a human woman kiss an animal! This is absurd and gross, why would they include that?" 2023: "Beloved game of the year Baldur's Gate 3 was notable for its marketing campaign about how you can gently caress a bear."
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Oct 15, 2023 19:22
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