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Synthbuttrange posted:Took a look at ZZ and drat this is a big claim It's bigger than that, Chris, it's large.
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Oct 14, 2023 14:11
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PhoenixFlaccus posted:Austin Walker once said (iirc) that Dan Ryckert might be interested in Armored Trooper VOTOMS. Does that mean it’s bad? try to be normal challenge 2k23 (IMPOSSIBLE)
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Oct 14, 2023 15:35
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Votoms is a lot more First Blood pt.1 than Rambo II. I don't think Votoms is the type of show to appeal to Ryckert except on the most superficial levels. Granted it is also pretty entertaining generally even if you ignore the mysteries and themes it's exploring so he might still like it.
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Oct 14, 2023 16:11
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Synthbuttrange posted:Took a look at ZZ and drat this is a big claim Going immediately into ZZ from Zeta with no context as a viewer is such a bizarre shift. Anime Ja Nai is a banger, though.
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Oct 14, 2023 17:10
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Synthbuttrange posted:Took a look at ZZ and drat this is a big claim That’s no anime, boy! No anime!
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Oct 14, 2023 17:18
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Synthbuttrange posted:Took a look at ZZ and drat this is a big claim This is all it takes to have the song stuck in my head the rest of the weekend.
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Oct 14, 2023 18:04
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X-Ray Pecs posted:G-Saviour defender here, it’s really not terrible! It’s a 90s made-for-TV movie, so if you adjust your expectations to that level, it’s a cheesy fun time with some surprisingly good direction! And I really like the battle scene, the dated CGI and animation works in the favor of the movie to give the giant robots some weight. G Saviour rocks j love how 90's utopian it can be
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Oct 14, 2023 23:09
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Waffleman_ posted:Oh no yes, Gaogaigar is extremely bad about the flashing and it's a drat shame Sunrise didn't allow Discotek to do anything about it for their BD No problem just get Convoy to do a psa at the start of the episode and you're all good
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Oct 14, 2023 23:17
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Ojjeorago posted:That’s no anime, boy! No anime! lol
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Oct 14, 2023 23:59
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Ojjeorago posted:That’s no anime, boy! No anime! Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!
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Oct 15, 2023 00:05
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War and Pieces posted:No problem just get Convoy to do a psa at the start of the episode and you're all good gently caress me I remember that. As for G-Saviour it is one of the most 90s Sci-Fi channel things ever made and I kind of love it for that alone. And for AGE I like the ideas of it more than the execution. By a lot.
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Oct 15, 2023 01:42
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Synthbuttrange posted:Took a look at ZZ and drat this is a big claim hmm this all tracks
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Oct 15, 2023 02:16
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You know what I'd like to see? Some post-OYW show about a Federation propaganda officer putting on a musical about the Gundam and the Red Comet. And they could get some Anaheim engineers on the production team to make a mini mobile suit to give the stage show extra authenticity.
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Oct 15, 2023 03:07
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Arc Hammer posted:You know what I'd like to see? Some post-OYW show about a Federation propaganda officer putting on a musical about the Gundam and the Red Comet. And they could get some Anaheim engineers on the production team to make a mini mobile suit to give the stage show extra authenticity. yeah like spiderman
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Oct 15, 2023 03:12
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Runa posted:yeah like spiderman Exactly like Spiderman. A show about the fraught production of Gundamu: Tobe No Dark.
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Oct 15, 2023 03:15
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https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11113quote:―――What do you as a director consider the “Gundam” series to be? lmao Unrelated: Arc Hammer posted:Exactly like Spiderman. A show about the fraught production of Gundamu: Tobe No Dark. lmao as well
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Oct 15, 2023 19:25
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Tomino is in a superposition of telling the truth and trolling he understands great works of art are dialectic
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Oct 15, 2023 20:18
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Stairmaster posted:Tomino is in a superposition of telling the truth and trolling he understands great works of art are dialectic This was an interview with Mitsuo Fukuda, whose credentials in this field are significantly less impressive.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:27
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But that's a Fukuda interview.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:28
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Yeah I forgot to mention that This is the SEED and Destiny guy
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Oct 15, 2023 20:36
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There was also a recent tomino interview where he claimed that zelensky is a newtype and that putin wouldn’t have started the war in ukraine if he’d watched victory gundam, though, so I can understand the confusion
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Oct 15, 2023 21:40
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Hes right
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Oct 15, 2023 21:42
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Hard to argue against that
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Oct 15, 2023 21:53
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Gaius Marius posted:Hard to argue against that Especially when you realize that "Servant of the People" was a prequel to Gundam Rise from the Ashes.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:34
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Omnicrom posted:gently caress me I remember that. I couldn't find the clip on YouTube  I think he would make jokes in the psa too for clipshow episodes
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Oct 15, 2023 22:56
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Runa posted:https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11113 Jesus loving christ I am screaming.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:56
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Runa posted:https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11113 It's kind of weird to leave out the next quote that more directly explains what that means: quote:"―――You’re right; the main character didn’t end the war. This, I think, is not exactly wrong? Gundam's wars and politics exist but they are not actually the point of the series. Almost every single Gundam series is about the people being impacted by those things and how it impacts them as a person and a character. Like nothing Fukuda says here that is objectionable or wrong if you actually follow the context of what he is saying. The original Gundam is set in a war but it is largely about the characters and their own interactions, growth and development. It followed the OYW but that wasn't what it was about and a lot of the politics and history of the series were retroactively added and in side material. It was a story about Amuro and the final battle was Amuro and Char fighting for personal reasons. Edit: Like, to some degree, this is true of almost every Gundam series. Gundam uses politics as backgrounds to tell personal stories and then has the more complex messy political parts addressed offscreen, in side material, or as a side note. IBO isn't the story of the politics of rare metal, the politics of rare metal are the framing for Tekkadan's personal struggles. Wing isn't about the politics of the world, it's about the character's emotional and personal journeys and the actual logic of things like "we shot our robots into the sun and now peace is forever" aren't really important. That is Gundam. Gundam is the series about psychic children in superpowerful robots who are manipulated by everyone around them and how they deal with that. The political drama and background are the context for why those events are happening but even if a Gundam series ends with a war being resolved it is always secondary to the impact that war had on the people involved. Hell, if you want the near perfect personification of this look as G Gundam, where the politics are loving absurd but the point of the politics is for the characters. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Oct 15, 2023 |
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Oct 15, 2023 23:08
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Oh neat the thread name changed
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Oct 15, 2023 23:18
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Unicorn is all about politics and that's to it's detriment Turn A is the resolved dialectic of politics and character development
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Oct 16, 2023 00:55
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How strong the influence of politics in Gundam is varies from show to show, I think. The original Gundam is extremely light on how much the politics matter to the story being told, but other shows lean into it a lot more. Zeta includes political maneuvering as a core pillar of its pilot and a serious pressure/influence on its cast members - see stuff like Kamille running headfirst into Wong Lee, the Dakar speech and everything surrounding it, or the negotiations between the AEUG/Titans/Axis as everyone tries to manipulate each other into being backstabbable. Char's entire character arc in that show is wanting to discard his political influence and live as a simple pilot, but being forced by the situation to flex his political muscles. I don't think Fukuda's entirely statement is flatly wrong - he's right in that some of the best Gundam there is is largely uninterested in political minutiae - but I don't think "the moment it delves into politics, it isn't Gundam" is true at all.
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Oct 16, 2023 01:06
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Runa posted:https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11113 Wait a sec. Let the man cook. Seed and Destiny both have a lot of politics (Racism politics mostly). So is he, actually, just admitting that his own works are not gundam?
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Oct 16, 2023 01:06
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Supremezero posted:Wait a sec. Let the man cook. Seed and Destiny both have a lot of politics (Racism politics mostly). So is he, actually, just admitting that his own works are not gundam? Well no, it's totally Gundam because he didn't engage with the actual ramifications of having Natural and Coordinators at all, and it not being political is why the setting of the Cosmic Era is so unbelievably undercooked. You know I started that intending it to be sarcastic, but at the end I'm not sure if it is anymore...
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Oct 16, 2023 01:09
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Kanos posted:How strong the influence of politics in Gundam is varies from show to show, I think. Even all of those things are character beats though. The politics are the context but the important part is Char deciding to give the speech. He isn't saying the politics have no place but that the important part is the character response. Char giving his speech is an important moment for him as a character. Without it being Char it wouldn't be something the ahow focuses on. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 01:42
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War and Pieces posted:Unicorn is all about politics and that's to it's detriment This feels like just enough of an excuse to like a spot on parody of the average UC sidestory. (It's still deeply weird that the manga where Haman is a 30-something office worker who has weirdly good chemistry with Kamille feels more in-character than the officially released manga covering Char's time at Axis.)
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Oct 16, 2023 01:44
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Omnicrom posted:Well no, it's totally Gundam because he didn't engage with the actual ramifications of having Natural and Coordinators at all, and it not being political is why the setting of the Cosmic Era is so unbelievably undercooked. Fluids was so invested in the character he didn’t realize he’d created a very interesting world the viewer would want to explore in greater detail.
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Oct 16, 2023 01:45
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To reframe it: Fukuda is not saying the politics of the setting don't matter, but that the politics are not what he considers important to Gundam, it is how the characters use those politics, and how the show is designed around using the robot fights for big dramatic moments that are the climax of the story and the climax comes down to where the characters are. Within SEED terms this makes a lot of sense with how the show is portrayed. The ending of SEED isn't dealing with the ramifications of war. It is about Athrun confronting his dad, Cagalli confronting Athrun, Kira confronting Rau and all of that. The end of the story comes when the characters reach the end point of their story because that is the important part. The same is true of Destiny where the big climax isn't the aftermath of the war but Kira and Rey confronting Durandal in the Messiah and Athrun and Shinn and Lunamaria having their conflict. That was the 'important' part of the story. Obviously some Gundam shows handle this better than others but... I think it's fair to say that's accurate to Gundam? It will wave its hand at the politics but it won't actually go into detail on them and it doesn't assume the show-watching audience wants those details. There's obviously segments who do which is why there are huge-rear end amounts of errata that focus on trying to make that stuff make sense, but a closer comparison is something like Star Wars where "Luke redeems his father, beats the evil space wizard, and the good guys blow up the Death Star" is the climax of the story and everything else involving the world is stuff people fleshed out afterwards. Even in, say, IBO, which I think has a somewhat higher focus on politics than most shows, the heart of the story isn't about the politics, it is about the emotional and personal journeys of the characters. You have some characters who are Very Political but we're expected to care bout that mostly for how it helps or hinders Tekkadan or one of the other major groups. Zeta has political moments but when push comes to shove the important part is how the characters respond. Wing or X or G all run to some degree on vibes where the political nature of the world is mostly there to give a framing device and the shows end with only the loosest amount of care given to what anything actually means in the long run. If you're super deep into Gundam it's easy to lose track of that I think because there's so much fuckin' errata material that you can start discussing the plausibility of technology or the actual potential ramifications of stuff or the political and social aspects of the setting, but those are not often present in the show itself outside of some establishing lines and ideas. Hell, most of what we discuss with the OYW is not present in the show at all and is only the result of years upon years of errata. And that's fine, I eat up that poo poo, but it isn't necessarily what people approach Gundam for. I also think this ties back kind of to some of the people who dislike Gundam having newtypes and magic and bullshit. To them that part is the 'bad part' of Gundam or at very least the part they don't care about. There's a lot of people who like Gundam and go "but it'd be better if it wasn't about psychics and there were more realistic robots without laser beams everywhere and it was more grounded and down to Earth" and like... that's fine! But logically there has to be a not-insignificant portion of Gundam fans who actually do like that stuff. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 01:51
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Honestly I'd say G Gundam actually has some of the best usage of Politics in the franchise since it's almost always of at least some importance but will also get out of the way when needed
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Oct 16, 2023 02:07
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly I'd say G Gundam actually has some of the best usage of Politics in the franchise since it's almost always of at least some importance but will also get out of the way when needed Yeah, the politics are fine, they explain why things are going on, but at the end of the day the focus of the show is on Domon having fuckin' cool emotional kung-fu fights with people and if he can ever get
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Oct 16, 2023 02:09
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I guess I'm having trouble grasping the point here. "Shows focusing on characters are primarily about character interactions" is a blank nothing of a thesis because of course they are. Politics are frequently an integral part of character motivations in many Gundam shows, even in Fukuda's shows, and can't really be separated from those characters without requiring a huge rewrite. Cagalli's arc in Destiny, while lovely, is entirely about her trying to live up to the political ideals espoused by her father, and Kira and Athrun's initial motivations in the show are supporting Cagalli in her quest. Is having a major character making a strong political statement not considered political because it's a "character beat"?
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Oct 16, 2023 02:25
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ImpAtom posted:Even all of those things are character beats though. The politics are the context but the important part is Char deciding to give the speech. This is a very limp take. Of course the character response is important, because to an extent this is signaling the response the author believes to be true. One of the political concerns of first Gundam is "What about Grandpa, who did warcrimes in Manchuria and China in the early 1940s?" First Gundam's answer to that is Time Be Still and Ramba Ral. The show clearly intends the Zeon characters to be sympathetic, concluding that them being party to the war crimes totally-not-Imperial-Japan-and-the-Nazis committed was born out of either bad luck of being conscripts, or a selfless duty to a national ideal potentially several steps removed from the political reality. Which all the Zeon apologia glommed onto in the later years with the various noble lost causers. It's irresponsible to not engage with this, which is where Fukuda is stepping in poo poo. There's two reads here: either Fukuda left out the nuance by mistake and thus looks like an idiot in an era where people are hyper tuned to the political context of the media they consume, or his statements should be taken at face value and he looks actively negligent of how character reactions to political questions in a narrative ultimately calcifies what the politics of that narrative are. There is no such thing as apolitical art. And Gundam, as an anti-war and pro-ecological franchise, has to engage with that at some level. "But is that core to Gundam?" is answered by repeating the first sentence of my conclusion: There is no such thing as apolitical art.
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Oct 16, 2023 02:28
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