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The strong point of Wonder is that it does creative and unexpected things with the flowers. It's fun to play, for sure. The biggest weak point that I can see is that this type of gameplay doesn't seem like it would lend itself very well to for example, being a style in a potential Mario Maker 3. I'm sure they could find some way of integrating that if this ended up being a thing in the future, but base wonder is way too gimmicky. It would have to be something completely something pretty different. Also, the game isn't really challenging at all (about 45%% of the way through with everything forseeable). The standard for the genre these days is essentially user-made levels in MM2 and or user-made ROM hacks of SMW. Nintendo will probably never embrace those, especially the latter, but they could at least try to take some design cues from them. They do try to add some harder levels in Wonder, but those all seem to miss the mark. Most have been 1-shots, a few have taken 2 or 3 lives. At least they end up being pretty fun, which is a major part of what makes a game great. It just needs to be challenging AND fun so that it is fun for longer. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 00:09
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Rushing to be done with a game before it's actually released?
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Oct 16, 2023 00:11
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I don't think anyone's baseline for Mario levels is Mario Maker, 99.5% of which are unplayable trash or kaizo joke hard levels almost nobody enjoys playing.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:12
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Nintendo is making games for everyone to be able to play, they are not going to make levels as hard as romhacks.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:14
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I have been playing a bit of Wonder and so far I think it's the best modern 2D Mario (FAKE EDIT: for normal people, but I'm sure it probably has a harder postgame)
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Oct 16, 2023 00:15
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I am very glad they didn't take lessons from the vast amount of trash in Mario Maker.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:15
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Many Mario games have had genuinely hard post game content Hopefully this will too
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Oct 16, 2023 00:16
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100% agreeing with every post after Ryoga's
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Oct 16, 2023 00:17
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think anyone's baseline for Mario levels is Mario Maker, 99.5% of which are unplayable trash or kaizo joke hard levels almost nobody enjoys playing. Curated harder stuff is what drives the content creation world of 2d Mario. Of course, it will never be the end-all mainstream, but more and more people look for more challenging games these days. Nintendo doesn't have to make Kaizo levels, or mimic the style of trolly or joke levels that frequently appear in MM. It would just be nice if they took a small step in the direction of making more challenging content. And i'm sure 95% of people will have fun with Wonder. It's not so easy that it is boring, it's just always gonna leave people who want more challenging levels wanting more challenging levels.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:24
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I feel those looking for a harder Mario experience are already playing MM and romhacks and getting their fill.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:27
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I'm just excited to play some new 2D Mario!
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Oct 16, 2023 00:30
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Oct 16, 2023 00:32
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SettingSun posted:I'm just excited to play some new 2D Mario! Same, I believe the last one was Mario Maker 2
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Oct 16, 2023 00:33
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Thanks for the AI art I guess?
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Oct 16, 2023 00:34
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Alacron posted:Thanks for the AI art I guess? Oops I was trying to post it on discord where I am a famous leaker
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Oct 16, 2023 00:38
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Oct 16, 2023 00:41
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I decided to finally complete NSMBU Deluxe on a whim yesterday and I am curious: Does Wonder still do that weird thing that the NSMB games do where you can only save after completing a castle level?
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Oct 16, 2023 00:47
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Unlucky7 posted:I decided to finally complete NSMBU Deluxe on a whim yesterday and I am curious: Does Wonder still do that weird thing that the NSMB games do where you can only save after completing a castle level? You can save whenever you want outside a level. e: this is the menu in the open world, it's kind of like Kirby  Just a beautiful game, this is only the 2nd world 
Barreft fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 00:51
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I still just want nsmbwii for the switch.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:55
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Theres already a YouTube video of the final battle (the main gimmick is you have to become elephant form, which causes bowser to do that anime nose bleed thing)
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Oct 16, 2023 01:16
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Lotta sick freaks in here emulating unreleased Nintendo games. called up Miyamoto and he was in tears, for shame
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Oct 16, 2023 01:18
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I called up Miyamoto and it was obviously a fake. I roughed him up a little and he admitted the real Miyamoto escaped in the early 2000s to Zihuatanejo.
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Oct 16, 2023 01:27
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I beat Galaxy today as soon as I had enough stars. My son watched the last level and got really into all the hopping Mario did. He ran out of the room to hop like Mario at my wife. Yesssssss!
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Oct 16, 2023 01:45
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Wildtortilla posted:I beat Galaxy today as soon as I had enough stars. My son watched the last level and got really into all the hopping Mario did. He ran out of the room to hop like Mario at my wife. Family Mario Wonder sounds like it'll be a blast
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Oct 16, 2023 01:54
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BabyRyoga posted:Curated harder stuff is what drives the content creation world of 2d Mario. Of course, it will never be the end-all mainstream, but more and more people look for more challenging games these days. The thing is that I don't think those people are playing Mario or have any real reason to play Mario. Especially with the indie market being what it is "punishingly hard platformers' are a dime a dozen and available in every format you could wish. Mario games have never been punishingly hard and are quite literally the 'baseline default' when it comes to platform games. You can create incredibly hard Mario games but a huge chunk of the appeal of Mario is that he is the 'medium' level, where anyone can probably finish it.
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Oct 16, 2023 02:13
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ImpAtom posted:The thing is that I don't think those people are playing Mario or have any real reason to play Mario. Especially with the indie market being what it is "punishingly hard platformers' are a dime a dozen and available in every format you could wish. Mario games have never been punishingly hard and are quite literally the 'baseline default' when it comes to platform games. You can create incredibly hard Mario games but a huge chunk of the appeal of Mario is that he is the 'medium' level, where anyone can probably finish it. The only counterexample I can think of is Lost Levels (aka the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2), which come to think of it might have been the inspiration for Kaizo Mario in the first place Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 02:15
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Larryb posted:The only counterexample I can think of is Lost Levels (aka the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2) Absolutely, though it was also from a very different period of time. It's also kind of the black sheep of the family in that regards, to the point Doki Doki Panic/SMB USA is a lot more ingrained into the Mario DNA than Lost Levels is. (also to be honest Lost Levels is is Harder Than SMB1/2/3 but it isn't as hard as a bunch of other poo poo on Nintendo.)
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Oct 16, 2023 02:17
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is the "worst" parts about Wonder are that it might not be easy to shove its content into MM3 and that it's not Lost Levels hard it's going to be the greatest 2D Mario of all time
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Oct 16, 2023 02:25
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ImpAtom posted:The thing is that I don't think those people are playing Mario or have any real reason to play Mario. Kaizo Mario is literally the most infamous of hard platformers and remains at the cutting edge, so to speak. Again, not saying that will ever be the expectation of any new official Mario game to actual mimic that content or get any where near as challenging, but gamers numbering in the tens or even hundreds of thousands yearn for this type of content. The same gamers will play Wonder, and almost certainly have fun with it (unless they are just being contrarian), but will probably also wonder (get it) how awesome it would have been as a more challenging game. And, i'm sure Nintendo will do something interesting with the wonder theme if/when MM3 comes around, but the base game isn't a good indication of what that could possibly be.
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Oct 16, 2023 02:27
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nobody with an ounce of sense who plays mainline mario releases complains that they aren’t hard enough. they are the blue jeans of platformers. universal accessibility is their watchword you get a gentle difficulty curve, a single firm dickpunch for the final bonus stage, and you move on
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Oct 16, 2023 02:34
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Maybe they’ll Save the really hard courses for DLC like with New Super Luigi U
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Oct 16, 2023 03:02
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Wait, how're people getting Wonder nearly a full week early? How dare you get it nearly a full week early! 
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Oct 16, 2023 03:09
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hatty posted:Maybe they’ll Save the really hard courses for DLC like with New Super Luigi U Is that what Super Luigi U is? I bought NSMBU on the switch a while back and had no idea what that part of it was.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait, how're people getting Wonder nearly a full week early? It broke street date apparently
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Oct 16, 2023 03:15
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ImpAtom posted:The thing is that I don't think those people are playing Mario or have any real reason to play Mario. Especially with the indie market being what it is "punishingly hard platformers' are a dime a dozen and available in every format you could wish. Yeah. There isn't really any demand for a super difficult Mario game unless you want a hard platformer with Nintendo-level graphics/production values, or absolutely must play one of these games as an Italian. Actually, in the latter case might I interest you in Pizza Tower.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:17
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Honestly pretty weird to me that there are apparently people out there whose main concern when presented with a new Mario game is "Well, how will this translate to a hypothetical new Mario Maker?"mycot posted:Yeah. There isn't really any demand for a super difficult Mario game unless you want a hard platformer with Nintendo-level graphics/production values, or absolutely must play one of these games as an Italian. Pizza tower's not much harder than a Mario tbh
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Oct 16, 2023 03:20
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Andorra posted:Is that what Super Luigi U is? I bought NSMBU on the switch a while back and had no idea what that part of it was. Abridged Mario U courses with 100 seconds per stage, Luigi physics included (higher jump, slippery momentum). Especially challenging to get the star coins, I wound up looking up videos of Star Road and felt the vanilla journey was worth playing.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:29
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait, how're people getting Wonder nearly a full week early? People are pirating it.
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Oct 16, 2023 03:34
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BabyRyoga posted:Again, not saying that will ever be the expectation of any new official Mario game to actual mimic that content or get any where near as challenging, but gamers numbering in the tens or even hundreds of thousands yearn for this type of content. The same gamers will play Wonder, and almost certainly have fun with it (unless they are just being contrarian), but will probably also wonder (get it) how awesome it would have been as a more challenging game. do you also get upset that smash brothers ultimate does not have wavedashing?
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Oct 16, 2023 04:07
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait, how're people getting Wonder nearly a full week early?
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